Am I liable for my wife's debts?

[thaibeachlovers]

I just read a thread that implied a farang husband is liable for his wife's debts as long as still married, even though he didn't know about them. Is that so? I hope not.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's what I recall reading on this topic in the past:

 

Basically, if the wife's debts were incurred for things related to the marriage and/or the husband and wife's life together, then supposedly under Thai law, the debt is communal, just as the post marital assets are.

 

But, if the wife goes off on her own and runs up illegal gambling debts or similar unilateral things, supposedly, at least under the Thai law, the husband would not be liable for those.  Whether the Thai lending leg breakers recognize those kinds of distinctions, though, I wouldn't want to wager a guess.

 

What's more fuzzy to me, at least from what I've read, are the more middle-ground grey area kinds of things, for example, let's say the wife borrowed money to give to her parents or support other relatives, and then couldn't repay it, then what?  Or if the wife goes out and takes out a loan to buy a new car but doesn't tell or involve the husband, then what???

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's what I recall reading on this topic in the past:

 

Basically, if the wife's debts were incurred for things related to the marriage and/or the husband and wife's life together, then supposedly under Thai law, the debt is communal, just as the post marital assets are.

 

But, if the wife goes off on her own and runs up illegal gambling debts or similar unilateral things, supposedly, at least under the Thai law, the husband would not be liable for those.  Whether the Thai lending leg breakers recognize those kinds of distinctions, though, I wouldn't want to wager a guess.

 

What's more fuzzy to me, at least from what I've read, are the more middle-ground grey area kinds of things, for example, let's say the wife borrowed money to give to her parents or support other relatives, and then couldn't repay it, then what?  Or if the wife goes out and takes out a loan to buy a new car but doesn't tell or involve the husband, then what???

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

The car is hopefully easy. If it was purchased after marriage it has to be sold and the proceeds split 50 50. That applies to anything of value purchased after marriage. Might be a problem if the sale doesn't cover the debt though.

 

the wife borrowed money to give to her parents or support other relatives, and then couldn't repay it,

If the money was from the farang sucker husband that money is gone. My wife informs me that it is "culture" to give money to the family, even if they hate me. A loan is not a loan if it is "culture".

 

Whether the Thai lending leg breakers recognize those kinds of distinctions, though, I wouldn't want to wager a guess.

A good plan is to be ready to leave town in a hurry.

[returnofthailand]

best plan is to not get married. stay away from marriage. marriage suck.!
marriage is like Russian roulette, would you take the risk?

when you sign a piece of paper in this society, you give to the system the right to screw you.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, returnofthailand said:

best plan is to not get married. stay away from marriage. marriage suck.!
marriage is like Russian roulette, would you take the risk?

when you sign a piece of paper in this society, you give to the system the right to screw you.

 

I know that now, but where were you before I got married? Your advice is pointless on this thread.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TBL, do you have a particular kind of wife's debt situation that gave rise to you raising the question in this thread? In other words, if you're willing to say, what exactly did she spend the money/incur the debt on?

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

^ No. I read the other thread about wives running up debt before getting divorced so their sucker husband would have to pay it, and wondered if it was true.

[blackcab]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

^ No. I read the other thread about wives running up debt before getting divorced so their sucker husband would have to pay it, and wondered if it was true.

 

It can be true - but equally nothing stops the foreigner running up substantial debt that the wife has to pay half of.

 

Foreigner's parents need medical care back in the West. Foreigner borrows several million baht and signs a loan agreement. Where does that leave the wife when they duvirce?

[dotpoom]

On 9/20/2016 at 0:35 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I know that now, but where were you before I got married? Your advice is pointless on this thread.

 I second that.

[mesterm]

You play, you pay.

[williamgeorgeallen]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:01 PM, returnofthailand said:

best plan is to not get married. stay away from marriage. marriage suck.!
marriage is like Russian roulette, would you take the risk?

when you sign a piece of paper in this society, you give to the system the right to screw you.

 

well you put it better than i was going to, except you maybe should have added there are at least 5 rounds in the russian roulette chamber if marrying a thai woman. best to keep relationships as short as possible. live together if you want to punish yourself but dont get married.

[maoro2013]

I know of one farang who's wife bought a condo without his knowledge. Lucky he had a few bucks. I can't really understand how this could happen, but it did.

[Gulfsailor]

On 22 september 2016 at 0:33 AM, blackcab said:

 

It can be true - but equally nothing stops the foreigner running up substantial debt that the wife has to pay half of.

 

Foreigner's parents need medical care back in the West. Foreigner borrows several million baht and signs a loan agreement. Where does that leave the wife when they duvirce?

I don't know what the law says in Thailand about this, but where I'm from, any big financial agreement has to be signed by both wife and husband to be valid. A few years ago there was a case where a bank/insurer sold investment packages and most lost a lot of money. In court it was shown that not both partners signed in most cases, and all these contracts were found to be invalid and thus they got their lost money back. 

[weegee]

If you are not allowed to own anything in your name....HOW can you be held responsible for the debt of same?...

[user82374298374]

In Thailand, the farang always pays.

[TheFishman1]

[Liquorice]

From what a lawyer friend tells me, it is only debts incurred after marriage and signed for by both, or one as a guarantor, than can be legally pursued.

 

If one party cannot pay they will come after the other marital spouse, but if they didn't sign anything, there is no legal way to force them to repay anything as the debt isn't theirs.

That's not to say they will not pursue it illegally, or even go after family members for the debt.

It depends largely on which type of business the loan was acquired.

[catman20]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:01 PM, returnofthailand said:

best plan is to not get married. stay away from marriage. marriage suck.!
marriage is like Russian roulette, would you take the risk?

when you sign a piece of paper in this society, you give to the system the right to screw you.

 

one of the very few smart guys here in Thailand. i agree with you 100% mate. these blokes still dont get it.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, mesterm said:

You play, you pay.

In the end I didn't get to play, but I still had to pay.

There is no point telling people not to get married- the little head rules.

What we can do is advise farangs how to protect themselves in the event of it going south.

I could have done with some advice before getting married, like NEVER LIVE ANYWHERE THE FAMILY CAN VISIT. Not for that, I'd probably still be happy.

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, catman20 said:

one of the very few smart guys here in Thailand. i agree with you 100% mate. these blokes still dont get it.

No disagreement, but not on this thread, OK.

[bwpage3]

One of the craziest things about Thailand is farang's can move to Thailand, have their choice of 30,000,000 million women and still end up getting divorced.

 

Isn't that the craziest thing ever? Why do you suppose that is?

 

What is the common denominator for all these guys getting divorced in Thailand?

 

On the other hand there are many that made the right choice out of 30,000,000 and stay married forever.

 

 

[HerbalEd]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:01 PM, returnofthailand said:

best plan is to not get married. stay away from marriage. marriage suck.!
marriage is like Russian roulette, would you take the risk?

when you sign a piece of paper in this society, you give to the system the right to screw you.

 

Had some bad experiences, huh? Not everyone does.

 

[ncc1701d]

Work colleague of mine put it well:

 

"Why would anyone enter into a contract in which you get nothing and if someone breaks the contract you lose half your stuff..."

 

Cynical, but accurate!

[sandemara]

Legally, you cannot be responsible for debts you did not incur, no matter where, when or in what circumstances you and your Thai partner became a couple.  However, I would always recommend you consult a lawyer before setting up a shared domestic arrangement so you can be sure of your rights and obligations under Thai law.  Thailand is a mysogynistic society, and Thai wives (despite what they or their family or friends might tell you) can't expect a  fair shake from the Court system. Pre-nuptial agreements are common and any farang should remove their rose-coloured glasses long enough to consider the wisdom of establishing a sensible understanding and agreement that protects them and their assets before marriage.  It is not expensive and will  likely save you millions of baht you might surrender unnecessarily. There are many legal ways to protect yourself. Don't be afraid to ask questions - no such thing as a stupid question when money is involved.

[hawker9000]

10 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

I don't know what the law says in Thailand about this, but where I'm from, any big financial agreement has to be signed by both wife and husband to be valid. A few years ago there was a case where a bank/insurer sold investment packages and most lost a lot of money. In court it was shown that not both partners signed in most cases, and all these contracts were found to be invalid and thus they got their lost money back. 

 

That may be the way it works where you're from, but the elephant in the room here is that different places around the world do deal with this differently.  In Thailand and as a practical matter, I think it matters whether the source of the borrowed/financed money was legitimate or not more than what the money was used for or whether or not "both spouses signed".  If legitimate, then much depends on what legal resources the lender or merchant is willing to throw at you to recoup the money it's owed (plus interest, plus charges - whatever was in the agreement, which you probably never saw and is likely in Thai).  And in most cases, as a foreigner, you're generally going to find yourself disadvantaged in the Thai legal system if it comes to that unless you have contacts or can afford an exceptionally good lawyer.   If the money came from a NON-"legitimate" lender (e.g, "mafia" or other "informal" source), THEN I think you potentially have even bigger problems as their recovery methods will tend to be more "traditional" (and at least potentially less gentle...).

 

NOT good to find yourself married to a woman who would do this.  But if you do and a situation like this presents itself (i.e., the creditor is coming to you for payment), it's probably best NOT to just assume you're immune and ignore their demands.

[catman20]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No disagreement, but not on this thread, OK.

sorry dont quite understand what you mean in your quote could you send me a PM as i dont want to offend anyone here.thx

[elgenon]

Keep your money out of Thailand and run up bigger debts than your wife. You win? Escape quickly.

 

 

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, weegee said:

If you are not allowed to own anything in your name....HOW can you be held responsible for the debt of same?...

You are allowed to own pretty much anything in your name bar land.

If one lazily puts everything in her name, she can certainly borrow against it.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

One of the craziest things about Thailand is farang's can move to Thailand, have their choice of 30,000,000 million women and still end up getting divorced.

 

Isn't that the craziest thing ever? Why do you suppose that is?

 

What is the common denominator for all these guys getting divorced in Thailand?

 

On the other hand there are many that made the right choice out of 30,000,000 and stay married forever.

 

 

In my case we were happy till we moved where the family could visit regularly. IMO allowing the family anywhere near her was the cause of my divorce. Not something I knew about prior to marriage.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, catman20 said:

sorry dont quite understand what you mean in your quote could you send me a PM as i dont want to offend anyone here.thx

you said nothing wrong, but the thread isn't about that-