British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, stander said:

People just need to see proof, not endless conspiracy theories  

Did you read what I said, this actually happened, not that you would want to research and discover for yourself seeing as you've already admitted you dislike Andy and his ilk.

[stander]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Did you read what I said, this actually happened, not that you would want to research and discover for yourself seeing as you've already admitted you dislike Andy and his ilk.

Why would I want to research this, it's up to you to come up with the proof.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, stander said:

Why would I want to research this, it's up to you to come up with the proof.

 

A very teling question from Stander.If he wanted the truth, he would seek it, not keep demanding proof from others. That's what honest people do.

[LannaGuy]

16 minutes ago, stander said:

People just need to see proof, not endless conspiracy theories  

 

No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty

 

this is what's it's about and if you don't 'get it' shame on you

[Tatsujin]

9 hours ago, gamini said:

the result would have been the same under so called previous democratic government when the same defamation laws were frequently used. so you can't blame this on the military

 

Isn't that what I said? That nothing has changed except the faces taking the money?

[Tatsujin]

14 hours ago, mankondang said:

 

The "current crop" have always been at the very top. Any "crop", before them were just their subordinates.

 

No, that's not correct, there's been a power shift at the (very) top which you'll see the results of very soon, and there's been a power shift away from the Police and to the Military further down and on the street (not entirely, but it's going that way).

[Tatsujin]

21 minutes ago, stander said:

Why would I want to research this, it's up to you to come up with the proof.

 

<sighs>

[captspectre]

human rights and thailand mentioned in the same sentence? you got to be kidding me! 

[dieseldave1951]

21 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

It's all over the BBC already, quote :  A spokesman for the British embassy in Bangkok said they would be raising the matter with the Thai authorities.

 

Well that's the kiss of death

and so the toothless tiger growls 

[joeyg]

1 hour ago, pookiki said:

One must remember that Andy's situation is by no means unique.  Others are suffering the same fate.

Others who have fought against HR abuses in Thailand for a longer period of time than Andy.

See -

 

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/tag/somchai-homlaor/

Every country has political prisoners, or corpses.  Every country...

 

[aussieinthailand]

12 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

If Andy Hall really cares about the plight of Burmese workers he should go to Burma and investigate conditions there then maybe they would not need to come to Thailand to find better work and pay. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/burma-minimum-wage-uk-retailers

 

"She earns 1,400 Myanmar Kyat (71p) a day in basic wages for a nine-hour day and 19p an hour for in overtime, which she is usually expected to do at least four hours a day. “I have a good job compared to workers in other factories,” she said. But she said conditions were hot and tough, with just one fan between 80 workers in her part of the factory. "

You really know nothing about Andy Hall do you... Yes he has worked in Burma/Myanmar.

[NongKhaiKid]

3 minutes ago, dieseldave1951 said:

and so the toothless tiger growls 

Well there's raising an issue and there's raising an issue.

It's unlikely we'll ever know if it actually was, what was said and what any response was.

Remember all the nonsense at the time of Koh Tau and all the ambassador seemed to be worried about was waiing Thai officials in the most respectful way.

[aussieinthailand]

With a little luck there is a junta leader currently in NY USA how should be getting a tap on the shoulder just about now..  5555

[glaswegian]

Andy haes spent a lang period o tyme in thayland but neer well an truly learned how things wark here,  a good warning to us aa foreigners living in Thailand,  if you want tae live in this country,  "BE DEAF, BLIND AND DUMB", leukin for democracy in this country is like leukin for a needle in a haystack!

[Rimmer]

An off topic video has been removed, also off topic posts

[AsianExport]

16 hours ago, Grubster said:

I guess I will keep my mouth shut on this one, I don't need a knock on my door.

 

but you need balls... Soccer balls of course !

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by AsianExport

[Keesters]

Going to Natural Fruits website this morning resulted in AVG Antivirus popping up showing many threats/viruses.

 

Quote

HTML/Framer Summary

HTML/Framer is a malicious software that once it is executed has the capability of replicating itself and infect other files and programs. These type of malware, called Viruses, can steal hard disk space and memory that slows down or completely halts your PC. It can also corrupt or delete data, erase your hard drive, steal personal information, hijack your screen and spam your contacts to spread itself to other users. Usually, a Virus is received as an attachment on an email or instant message.

 

 

Was trying to find the brand names of their products that I could avoid buying.

 

 

 

 

[useronthenet]

12 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty,"

 

Those are the words of Natural Fruit president Wirat Piyapornpaiboon after the verdict was delivered.

 

What a horrible little man he must be.

 

As horrible as these words might sound to us, they never-the-less ring true for most foreigners. Thailand is for Thai people (and no less). 

Edited September 21, 2016 by useronthenet

[dwcrist]

Thailand, where standing up for human rights gets you a prison sentence.

 

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty."

 

What about Thai power over Thai sovereignty? Don't they even care that the sovereign Thai Law, which forbids the alleged abuses, may have been broken? What this statement means to me: "Foreigners and workers don't have rights, influential Thais can do what they want regardless of the law. *cite countless cases of DWI vehicular manslaughter.

 

And people wonder why foreign investment and human rights/trafficking ranking are so bad? Wake Up!

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, dwcrist said:

Thailand, where standing up for human rights gets you a prison sentence.

 

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty."

 

What about Thai power over Thai sovereignty? Don't they even care that the sovereign Thai Law, which forbids the alleged abuses, may have been broken? What this statement means to me: "Foreigners and workers don't have rights, influential Thais can do what they want regardless of the law. *cite countless cases of DWI vehicular manslaughter.

 

And people wonder why foreign investment and human rights/trafficking ranking are so bad? Wake Up!

So true, foreign investment in Thailand plunged 78% this year from last. From AFP news.

 

"Foreign investment plummeted last year with total investment applied for by foreign companies between January and November 2015 plunged 78% from a year earlier to 93.8 billion baht. "

[CGW]

2 hours ago, stander said:

Why would I want to research this, it's up to you to come up with the proof.

  inquisitive chap 

[Rimmer]

I have removed multiple off topic videos from the same poster, you need to stop that now it is spamming and trolling the topic,   further off topic videos will earn a suspension

[meltingpot2015]

15 hours ago, Stardust314 said:

Thailand   

 

where is the 'dislike' button.

[Dogmatix]

Who would be so naive as to think that the truth as a defence would make a difference in a criminal defamation case heard in a Thai court when big money is at stake?  

[JAG]

Why would I want to research this, it's up to you to come up with the proof.

Umh....

He has hasn't, he?
Verifiable reports of bullet cases left to be seen in the courtroom?

Or would you like him to go down there, pick them up using a pen ( just like "Columbo" does), put them in a bag, have them forensically tested and then personally present you with the results?

Just how much proof do you need for goodness sake?

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

 

No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty

 

this is what's it's about and if you don't 'get it' shame on you

 

That is indeed what it is about.  We can do what we like to foreign workers in Thailand, as long as we make enough money from their sweated labour to pay everyone off.

[JAG]

So true, foreign investment in Thailand plunged 78% this year from last. From AFP news.

 

"Foreign investment plummeted last year with total investment applied for by foreign companies between January and November 2015 plunged 78% from a year earlier to 93.8 billion baht. "

It can ( will) be argued that it fell away because of political uncertainty and the establishment of a military junta.

It is very unlikely that it will return anytime soon as long as this sort of thing is going on.

[ianf]

21 hours ago, cms22 said:

This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that does not want the people to have rights. This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that is only interested to protect certain sections of society. I remember a couple of years ago so many right-wing TV members spouting on about how bad Thaksin is and how much better the army government will be. Where are they now, I ask.

Right wing? I am sure that I am not right wing - in fact far from it. I am totally opposed to  Thaksin because he is a right-wing autocrat so how can your statement stand up?

[Dogmatix]

I wonder if there will be any response from European buyers of Thai produce. If Thai laws and the way they are interpreted by courts effectively make it illegal for NGOs to research working conditions of foreign migrant labour making the products, you have no choice but to just take the Thai business owners' word that all is fine, or shop elsewhere.  For any buyers concerned about a possible backlash from their own consumers concerned about human rights shopping elsewhere must be a no brainer.  Thailand doesn't produce anything that can't be sourced elsewhere at the same price or less.

 

Due to decades of mismanagement and corruption Thailand has already lost most of its former competitiveness and now has to rely on cheap migrant labour to compete in sunset industries, as its education is too poor to move up the value added ladder to knowledge based industries.    

[meltingpot2015]

Problem with Thailand is that everyone is in each others pockets. 

 

The comment:

 

Quote

no foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty. 

 

Although the person who said this has nothing to do with the judiciary he sums it up so nicely. 

 

Thailand has set out to make an example of this case. But what they are forgetting is, if foreigners don't trust the legal system. Then there are repercussions: 

 

Direct effects:

-  there will less foreign direct investment (after all, foreigner's won't be confident that they will receive a fair hearing if they need to go to court to resolve a dispute with a Thai person)
-  it will affect trade relations (no country wants to broker deals with countries with dubious records).

Indirect effects:

- statements like above will be seen by many foreigners as being 'hostile' to foreigners. Less tourists arriving. More leaving.

- Court decision will be seen by people around the world. I take it this company exports its products to other countries. (even if they don't the 'made in thailand' name will be tainted). These countries many of which have freedom of expression and protections for migrant workers, will chose to boycott most, if not all products from Thailand.

 

If these countries do chose to make stronger relations, their media will have a field day with stories like "How do you like your fruit", covered in the tears of a migrant boy or in the sweat of a migrant elder.

 

Most or all these other importing countries (that practice freedom of speech and migrant workers right laws) will feel there has  been a cover-up that thailand felt could only be rescued by using/introducing ""sovereignty" in to the argument. 

 

Sovereignty does matter, however, What thailand didn't consider in all this was that, for sovereignty to matter, there has to be agents (that's you and me) coming together and exercising rights. Without that Sovereignty cannot exists by itself. For this reason we cannot put sovereignty on a higher pedestal (podium). sovereignty and rights have to be considered together and they are both equal.