NO hols for foreign teachers?

[onlycw]

We must sign in as usual - -

 

is that fair and is it legal? Don't they *get* the benefits of holidays? Thais get holidays, of course.

[Fookhaht]

Geez, for a minute, I thought we were back on the topic of the foreigner who fixes Thai road holes in Buriram.   

Seriously,  holidays have always been excluded from the sign-in list in three educational organizations/institutions I have worked at in Thailand.  Maybe some clerk is just lazy and doesn't bother to delete the days.  Among the hundred or so foreign teachers I know in Thailand, everyone gets the same Thai holidays off as does Thai staff.  

Two questions:

• Do you have to physically come in on the holiday to sign in and out?  If so, that's just crazy.  
• Let me get this right--the Thai teachers at your same institution DON'T have to sign in/out for the holiday?  

Edited September 28, 2016 by Fookhaht

[allane]

I am a now retired teacher who taught at three high schools in Thailand. This may be a definitional problem as to what constitutes a "holiday".

Before and after the official vacation period, there are often a few days where foreign teachers are expected to report in the morning to punch in/sign the register, and possibly, report back in the late afternoon to punch out/sign out. This was a privledge accorded only to the foreign teachers. At the schools where I worked, the Thai teachers were expected to remain at school all day during such periods. Understandably, it was they who did the complaining.

Edited September 28, 2016 by allane

[Fookhaht]

It also might be helpful to know at what type of school the OP is working:  private school?  government high school?  vocational college?  university?  Among these types of institutions, standards vary significantly.

[Raymonddiaz]

At my school we need to ask for formal leave and not over 9 working days in October

 

[Deepinthailand]

I get exactly the same as my Thai peers no more no less.

[nongsangcity]

check your contract.....what happens if you dont clock in and out...would you get paid or not...you have to be firm with schools...you tell them what the score is...if not they could walk all over you....a good friend of mine was told his school was closed october and he booked a 2 week holiday to europe on the 16th of october they told him last week schoool is open on the 17th...he told them he wont be back until the 31st..so he has an extra 2 weeks off...the cannot do any thing as they told him school was closed all of october..

[BruceMangosteen]

4 minutes ago, nongsangcity said:

check your contract.....what happens if you dont clock in and out...would you get paid or not...you have to be firm with schools...you tell them what the score is...if not they could walk all over you....a good friend of mine was told his school was closed october and he booked a 2 week holiday to europe on the 16th of october they told him last week schoool is open on the 17th...he told them he wont be back until the 31st..so he has an extra 2 weeks off...the cannot do any thing as they told him school was closed all of october..

 

Repeating myself...such things are not in the contracts of Government schools. Perhaps you refer to a private school? What they "told" him doesn't matter. All that mattes is if they like him/her. 

[tifino]

 

every day is a holiday - it starts at 4:21pm

[jadee]

Very much like tifino's reply! Working over here can at times seem more like a 'working holiday', especially when all-day sports days, events or ceremonies leave you with a clear schedule. 
In answer to the OP, I guess it is 'fair and legal' if it's in the contract and you signed it. 

[muzmurray]

10 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Repeating myself...such things are not in the contracts of Government schools. Perhaps you refer to a private school? What they "told" him doesn't matter. All that mattes is if they like him/her. 

 

How on earth do you claim to know what is in each and every contract issued by a Government school?

 

Each establishment uses their own contract - there is no standard Government school contract.

[muzmurray]

6 days paid annual leave is the legal entitlement, anything you get over that is a bonus.   :-)

[Deepinthailand]

59 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

6 days paid annual leave is the legal entitlement, anything you get over that is a bonus.   :-)

Your working for the wrong school. I get all school holidays same as thai teachers and get paid for 28 days holiday.

[BruceMangosteen]

2 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

How on earth do you claim to know what is in each and every contract issued by a Government school?

 

Each establishment uses their own contract - there is no standard Government school contract.

There is in fact a standard contract. And to now for the third time, I will remind you and the others said contracts in Government schools don't spell out holidays, duty time, gate duty, arrival and departure of school grounds, etc. and in addition, Government schools are exempt from severance laws. Specifically exempted by law. So it matters not anything contract wise, only once again to the Thai people/person liking you or not. Like as in as it sounds and reads, like...as opposed to dislike. Nothing sexual, just personality and if you "complain" which even valid rational suggestions or ideas are viewed as. 

[Deepinthailand]

Bruce for the 4th time calm down you will be having a heart attack. There may well be a standard contract for goverment schools and it's probably adhered to like the immigration offices adhere to the Immigration law in diffrent areas, and we all know it's standard throughout the country don't we!!!!! I have taught in two schools the second i am still at. I can assure you the two contracts were completely diffrent. In my present contract it is indeed stated I get xxxx amount of holiday per year and indeed get paid for 28 of those days (officially) So I guess they "Like" me.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Deepinthailand
Add info

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Your working for the wrong school. I get all school holidays same as thai teachers and get paid for 28 days holiday.

 

Read what I read -6 days is the legal minimum

 

PS. maybe you are working for the wrong establishment, I get about 4 months off paid per year.   :-)

[new2here]

My employer (a national university) spell this out explicitly in our contracts. It lists for that year, all the holidays to which you are not required to be at work or have any official duties/responsibilities. It does have language to the effect that should the government formally add - or delete - a holiday, then that becomes included/excluded.

We also have "personal" days, which is different from sick days. Sick days have a reporting/documentation requirement. The only part about personal days is that they may not be used immediately before or after a contractually outlined holiday. Plus only 2 days may be taken consecutively.

I have not known as school yet that does not fairly well a address holiday in terms of what they are or how many.

I am sure there can be a gap in terms of what'a written and what happens in reality, but I think most schools will follow the government holiday matrix pretty closely


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[BruceMangosteen]

If they decide they don't like you, the contract doesn't mean diddly crap and you can be released without any cause and won't have any financial or other remedy. That's the point. You remain an at will worker. 

[Deepinthailand]

6 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

If they decide they don't like you, the contract doesn't mean diddly crap and you can be released without any cause and won't have any financial or other remedy. That's the point. You remain an at will worker. 

Tell me one work place in the world where you are not an at will worker. We all know contracts are at best worth very little. If an employer doesn't want you they will find a way to screw you over

Edited September 29, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[Deepinthailand]

14 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

Read what I read -6 days is the legal minimum

 

PS. maybe you are working for the wrong establishment, I get about 4 months off paid per year.   :-)

Yes I read it incorrectly. I'm pleased you get paid for that many holidays I really am

[muzmurray]

31 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

There is in fact a standard contract. And to now for the third time, I will remind you and the others said contracts in Government schools don't spell out holidays, duty time, gate duty, arrival and departure of school grounds, etc. and in addition, Government schools are exempt from severance laws. Specifically exempted by law. So it matters not anything contract wise, only once again to the Thai people/person liking you or not. Like as in as it sounds and reads, like...as opposed to dislike. Nothing sexual, just personality and if you "complain" which even valid rational suggestions or ideas are viewed as. 

 

Please provide the link to this "standard" contract - it must be on the OBEC site ? Or maybe the Ministry of Education's site ?

 

My contract at a Government school certainly did cover all the things you said it didn't.

 

Do you have a link to substantiate the claim that Government schools are exempt from paying severance ?

 

Your posts seem to be full of "bar stool" talk and no verifiable facts.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by muzmurray

[nongsangcity]

14 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

Repeating myself...such things are not in the contracts of Government schools. Perhaps you refer to a private school? What they "told" him doesn't matter. All that mattes is if they like him/her. 

thanks for the reply....i dont have any friends who work for private schools all government schools...i know friends who draw up their own contracts with the school and holiday and pay for holidays and holidays with out pay etc...are all covered....this is Thailand every office..every town...every immigration and every school have different ideas than the office...town ...immigration and school next door..

[aidenai]

2 hours ago, muzmurray said:

My contract at a Government school certainly did cover all the things you said it didn't.

 

Over the years I've had employment contracts with 2 primary government schools, 2 secondary government schools and 1 Rajabhat university. All employment contracts explicitly state holidays, business leave, duty time and much more.

 

 @Brucemangosteen - repeating myself again, I really doubt you're currently teaching in Thailand if not teaching at all. IF you're teaching in Thailand, please stop pretending you know it all because you absolutely don't.

[Deepinthailand]

Anyway it's all academic for me handed in notice today. Leave in Oct holidays, decided I need a break and it as it happens my extension of stay runs out on 1st Nov. So have decided to go on the non o based on marriage route from Savanakhet. For a year at least see how it pans out, I can still get a WP on that if I decide to go back to work. Plus I won't have to bother with immigration for a while which will be nice. 

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Read what I read -6 days is the legal minimum

 

PS. maybe you are working for the wrong establishment, I get about 4 months off paid per year.   :-)

I dont know about schools, but our company has to follow ministry of labor rules which states all employees get minimum of 13 days out of 16 official public holidays.  The 6 days minimum is a separate issue and is personal holiday/vacation/ sick time after but this is only after 1 year.  Again this is for a private company, govt schools might not be required to follow the same rules.  

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Read what I read -6 days is the legal minimum

 

PS. maybe you are working for the wrong establishment, I get about 4 months off paid per year.   :-)

I dont know about schools, but our company has to follow ministry of labor rules which states all employees get minimum of 13 days out of 16 official public holidays.  The 6 days minimum is a separate issue and is personal holiday/vacation/ sick time after but this is only after 1 year.  Again this is for a private company, govt schools might not be required to follow the same rules.  

[BruceMangosteen]

22 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Please provide the link to this "standard" contract - it must be on the OBEC site ? Or maybe the Ministry of Education's site ?

 

My contract at a Government school certainly did cover all the things you said it didn't.

 

Do you have a link to substantiate the claim that Government schools are exempt from paying severance ?

 

Your posts seem to be full of "bar stool" talk and no verifiable facts.

 

You and your cohorts here seem hell bent on issuing personal attacks vs substance. I've received very well paid legal advice that the Government schools are specifically exempt from severance payment laws. The standard contract is available to all Government schools. Did I say that some Directors might decide they know better and alter it? No, I didn't. The schools don't even want the foreigners on campus but they are needed to teach English since Thailand is behind and lacks enough English speaking Thai people. There is a reason they have to declare same with your VISA and Labor package. No "bar" is going to permit patrons to discuss teaching English in Thailand. Get with it mate! 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, BruceMangosteen said:

You and your cohorts here seem hell bent on issuing personal attacks vs substance. I've received very well paid legal advice that the Government schools are specifically exempt from severance payment laws. The standard contract is available to all Government schools. Did I say that some Directors might decide they know better and alter it? No, I didn't. The schools don't even want the foreigners on campus but they are needed to teach English since Thailand is behind and lacks enough English speaking Thai people. There is a reason they have to declare same with your VISA and Labor package. No "bar" is going to permit patrons to discuss teaching English in Thailand. Get with it mate! 

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

[muzmurray]

22 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

You and your cohorts here seem hell bent on issuing personal attacks vs substance. I've received very well paid legal advice that the Government schools are specifically exempt from severance payment laws. The standard contract is available to all Government schools. Did I say that some Directors might decide they know better and alter it? No, I didn't. The schools don't even want the foreigners on campus but they are needed to teach English since Thailand is behind and lacks enough English speaking Thai people. There is a reason they have to declare same with your VISA and Labor package. No "bar" is going to permit patrons to discuss teaching English in Thailand. Get with it mate! 

 

So, can you ask your well paid lawyer where it is stated that Government schools are exempt from paying severance to foreign teachers.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the schools didn't want you on campus, as opposed to all foreigners?

 

Did you mean extension of stay based on employment?

Edited September 30, 2016 by muzmurray

[BruceMangosteen]

6 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

So, can you ask your well paid lawyer where it is stated that Government schools are exempt from paying severance to foreign teachers.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the schools didn't want you on campus, as opposed to all foreigners?

 

Did you mean extension of stay based on employment?

I have the section of said law in my database. Once you put up or shut up, I'll make it clear to you. 10,000.Baht says it's the law and in the law. Cheers mate.