Thai standards of parenting

[impartialobserver]

A few days ago, I heard that my Thai friend's brother had been in a motorcycle accident, causing a brain hemorrhage and a couple broken bones. He wasn't wearing a helmet, and he was 13.

 

I was appalled at my friend's parents irresponsibility--they regularly let this kid drive a motorcycle alone without a helmet. When I asked my friend about it, he laughed and said, "I rode a bike without a helmet since I was 12 and got in an accident every year until I was 18." He didn't seem to think his parents were being irresponsible or not doing enough to protect their children.

 

Now that I read the story about the grandmother who sold her teenage girl into prostitution with a man in his 70s, I realize that, yeah, from that perspective my friend's parents aren't doing a bad job. The comments on the story lead me to believe this kind of child exploitation is not uncommon in the country. Riding a bike without a helmet is hardly child endangerment from their perspective.

 

This also makes me wonder just how many of those teenage girls who go to work in the bars are doing so with their parents' consent, or whether their parents are willfully ignorant--or even if the parents just don't care. 

 

This has got me thinking--what exactly are the Thai standards of parenting? What makes a "good" parent in the eyes of the Thai people? What is good and bad parenting here? Is all of this lack of protectiveness seen as a good thing by the Thai people? If so, what's their rationale behind that train of thought?

 

Can someone explain to me how the Thai people see their responsibilities as parents?

[Berkshire]

So let me get this straight:  You're asking a bunch of farangs on TV "how the Thai people see their responsibilities as parents?"  So if I was to ask a bunch of Thais "how farangs see their responsibilities as parents," I may get a reasonably accurate answer?  Seriously?

[tifino]

 

 

Mother Nature has an answer to every situation:

 

 

Grandmother feeds kid to old man:

- goldfish eat their young

 

Baby found in toilet:

- snakes spit their young out, soon after they crack open from the egg

 

Kids playing on motorcycles on the road:

- Turtles let their young hatch and make their own way down the gauntlet of the open sand, to the water

 

 

must be one of the above methods,

according to some of the stories we've read about about the poor thai kids, this week alone!!

Edited September 28, 2016 by tifino

[jadee]

As in all countries, standards of parenting vary. Responsible Thai parents don't let their kids anywhere near motorbikes. In some ways, it's a class issue. If they have money, they buy them cars. Many kids in private schools have their own cars as soon as they are old enough to drive.

There are many tragic cases of awful parents in Western media on a daily basis, it's not like Thailand has a monopoly on bad parenting. Two examples from the past week:
1) A photo taken by Ohio police recently went viral showing a toddler in the back of a car with his overdosing grandparents out cold in the front.  
2) CNN ran a series of reports into human trafficking in Canada. Several former child prostitutes were interviewed, a few claimed their abuse started as young as 11. In Canada.

[damo]

Rote education has robbed Thai society of the analytical mindset that says 'wait a minute, I wonder what would happen if???' Incidents and accidents all happen for a reason. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by damo

[Deepinthailand]

3 hours ago, damo said:

Rote education has robbed Thai society of the analytical mindset that says 'wait a minute, I wonder what would happen if???' Incidents and accidents all happen for a reason. 

What a totaly farang perspective on a subject he or she knows very little about. But I'm sure he or she will claim to be an expert

[seajae]

a lot of the things that happen are due to the fact many thais have no regard for the laws, this is blatantly obvious with all the under age, non licensed riders and drivers on the roads, in Australia we had bicycles at these kids ages and rode them to school etc, they are cheaper and a lot safer in most cases. Whether they deliberately ignore the law or simply do not know or understand them is also an issue, under age girls etc being sold off to older men etc also fits into this, it is against the law but some have been doing it for generations, they simply refuse to come into a modern world. You also have those that just take the easiest way out for them, responsibility is not high on thai standards for some, others simply dont care or just see the money they can make from doing certain things. Every country has negatives though but it certainly does appear that Thailands parenting standards are not the best in regard to other countries, maybe if the police actually did their job some of the kid problems would slow down a lot but that is another story

[MikeyIdea]

The big question is: How would a westerner who doesn't understand the core values of Thai parents understand even if someone who really does understand tries to explain?

 

Here's a sample from the past that can help with the understanding:

Ask yourself the question - How could your parents (or if you are young your grandparents) drive motor cycle every day when they were young without putting on the helmet they could have bought but didn't?

 

And here's a sample from the future that can help with the understanding:

Your grand children could one day in the future ask themselves - How could you ride a bicycle every day when you were young without putting on the bicycle helmet you could have bought but didn't?

 

Some ThaiVisa members are so good at looking down on Thai's as is they were stupid and irresponsible because they don't think the same way and value the same things they do but perhaps the stupid one is the one who doesn't understand and still doesn't ask. The honourable ThaiVisa member Damo is a good example of someone like that but he's not smart enough to understand his own shortfall 

 

What is good parenting and not is based on core values. But what is core values and how do we understand them?

Core values change over time - already explained above

 

Core values are different depending on background

- Lower working class Thai's have different values from educated Thai's. If I compare with the Thai managers at my job, then I would say that the difference between well educated Thai parents and well educated western parents is smaller than the difference between lower working class westerners and well educated westerners

 

Core values vary greatly between different cultures and core values steer what is more or less important for people 

- One of the most important things for a Thai parent is that his child is respectful and polite, that leads to less emphasis on developing self confidence, leadership, competitiveness

- One of the most important things for an American parent is that his child has high self confidence, good leadership skills and is competitive, that leads to less emphasis on what a Thai parent value the most in his child

 

Perhaps the American parent thinks the Thai parent is bad because he doesn't teach his child what is important...

Perhaps the Thai parent thinks the American parent is bad because he doesn't care that his child is loud, disrespectful and rude...

 

Even languages develop differently depending on core values = what is important within the culture

It's more difficult to talk about feelings in English than in Thai, I get stuck sometimes because I can use one single word to describe a feeling in Thai but I need a whole sentence to explain the same feeling in English

 

Good parenting - There are 2 sides to everything

I was a bad parent... :) I didn't teach my daughter at all... I got blamed so much... Mummy even said that I was useless...

 

I didn't teach where Mummy looked and she didn't look where I taught. I looked where mummy taught but I didn't find what she tried to do important, she put priority on things that would have corrected itself with time anyway and what she did was detrimental to what is so important later in life. Depending on how you see things  = core values of course

 

To fit in/to not stick out/to be well behaved and polite is so important for Thai's that Thai parents try to make children behave long before they are mature enough to be able to act on it - that affects curiosity, initiative, self confidence etc

 

A western parent on the other hand work on curiosity, initiative, self confidence etc. That affects fit in/to not stick out/to be well behaved and polite of course

 

Lack of protectiveness if we should call it that is linked to core values

Lower working class parents in the west have a different view of protectiveness than well educated parents. Why? 

 

The western culture has developed so that we think so much about the future that we often forget to live today. The Thai culture has not really gone the same way, not yet anyway

 

Thai's clearly value the present more, westerners are more for the future. Thai's don't want to think about negative things, westerners are very different. Thai's don't look at the garbage, westerners go to a paradise beach and they don't see the beauty because they look at the garbage...

 

It's not - Is lack of protectiveness is seen as a good thing? (it's a strange question if you understand actually). It's definitely unwillingness to think about negative things, sure, and it is much because priorities influenced by core values are different and not to forget, the present is more important  

 

I have been living on the same street in Bangkok for 20+ years. I have worked so hard to "work myself up in life", my house and my car is paid off, I have it much better now than I had 20 years ago

 

My Thai neighbours have also gotten a better life the last 20+ years, but not as much as I have

 

My Thai neighbours have laughed and enjoyed life more than I have the last 20+ years

 

Who is more "right"?

 

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[damo]

13 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

What a totaly farang perspective on a subject he or she knows very little about. But I'm sure he or she will claim to be an expert

 

 Is the only input you have? why exactly did you bother with replying? 

[Deepinthailand]

11 minutes ago, damo said:

 

 Is the only input you have? why exactly did you bother with replying? 

Repeat after me this is a forum and I disagreed with your coments.

Now repeat 20 times and you may understand.

[damo]

Intelligent argument, not possible with yourself. it was only two simple questions. I achieved what I wanted anyway so...goodbye.

 

[Deepinthailand]

23 minutes ago, damo said:

Intelligent argument, not possible with yourself. it was only two simple questions. I achieved what I wanted anyway so...goodbye.

 

You think so I think not, does it hurts when your own argument is turned against you. Maybe next time you may think your post through before answering.  Good night

Edited September 29, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[damo]

Another nonsense reply, keep going. This is fun. You want to appear as a smart arse yet your replies indicate drunkenness. 

[Deepinthailand]

10 minutes ago, damo said:

Another nonsense reply, keep going. This is fun. You want to appear as a smart arse yet your replies indicate drunkenness. 

5555 not quite goodbye then oh well where's the ignore button

Goodbye say this 20 times and learn.

[MikeyIdea]

There is a Thai saying that goes like this 

 

- People who don't know speak easily 

 

Don't tell damo, he may realise that most Thais actually are smarter than he is...

 

[richard_smith237]

This question has multifaceted answers....  Its impossible to be correct because any answer generalises a whole society... 

 

What I can offer to this discussion is IMO the Standards of Parenting with specific regard to Child safety are significantly less through all facets of society in Thailand than in the West.

 

Poor kids on Bikes without any helmets, wealthier children in expensive vehicles without car seats, sat (or stood) on mums lap in the front...  There are those I know from well educated backgrounds who have car seats, but don't use the straps because 'little one' doesn't like it. 

 

My own Mother In Law suggested we take my Son out of the Car seat because he 'didn't like it'... 

 

 

Just like western parents in the 70's... Its not that they didn't care... they just didn't know... Standards, education and parenting techniques evolve...  We know more now than we knew 'then'....  

 

This is why I consider for those who are informed there is no excuse with regards to safety - Poor parenting definitely exists... but through the spectrum of 'Parenting Standards' as we evolve, standards are improving in the West and in Thailand... 

 

The Key issue for me when any 'parenting standard' is concerned is: Are the children cared, truly loved and in a safe environment....

 

(well... at least until I got in at 4am the other morning and my son required a nappy change... I'd put his pyjamas on back to front !!! = Parenting Fail !!!)...

 

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by richard_smith237

[damo]

2 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

5555 not quite goodbye then oh well where's the ignore button

Goodbye say this 20 times and learn.

Why do you attack posters on message boards? I see this is a common trait of your persona given a brief glimpse of your posting history, I usually avoid people like you but I have had fun so far so let's keep it going, hey? 

 

I understand English may not be you first language although that should not discourage yourself from learning to use it with a degree of eloquence. You come across as someone who has been drinking all night and I am still waiting for an intelligent argument with yourself beyond a predictable semi-sentence of nonsense.

 

I assume that you will now pretend to hide behind your touted ignore button. :)

[MikeyIdea]

damo, this is a thread about Thai standards of parenting and the understanding of it. I have contributed to the Thai side and I am glad that you have given me the opportunity to point out a good example of a western parenting standard too

 

Scroll up take a look at what you have contributed to this threat vs what it is about and you will realise that your parents obviously wasn't able to teach you even half as good as the Thai parents this thread is about

 

[damo]

To assume a persons knowledge is strictly derived from parenting is foolish. I takes a community to raise a child and schooling is as influential as parenting. I stand by my assertion that the well known method of rote education does not develop critical thinking or analytical skills. Much can be learnt by asking oneself a question and deriving an answer. I have two children with a Thai wife, have had for thirteen years and you wish to tell myself all about Thai parenting? You also wish to attack my upbringing in your last sentence yet use the prose of a 10 year old child. I would give you a lot of credibility if you keep your foolish comments to yourself.

[MikeyIdea]

damo, you posted nonsense that had nothing to do with what the OP created this thread to discuss and the OP got irritated at you. You didn't understand that and continued to post  nonsense and destroyed the discussion. I am interested in what the OP wanted to discuss and I seriously tried to contribute to the discussion so I also got irritated at you for the same reason

 

Your last post directed to me show that you still haven't understood. You still post solely about what is irrelevant for the discussion of this topic.

 

I high-light 5 (five), no 6 (six actually) different places in the OP's first post where he explains what he wants to discuss. It is quite obvious that it is NOT... the western view that you are so quick to give

 

On 28/09/2016 at 6:28 PM, impartialobserver said:

This has got me thinking--what exactly are the Thai standards of parenting? What makes a "good" parent in the eyes of the Thai people? What is good and bad parenting here? Is all of this lack of protectiveness seen as a good thing by the Thai people? If so, what's their rationale behind that train of thought?

 

Can someone explain to me how the Thai people see their responsibilities as parents?

 

I am interested in knowing what you have learnt during your 13 years as a parent  in Thailand about the Thai view of parenting. Please leave your western understanding out and contribute the Thai view of parenting and maybe we can respect each others contribution

 

I look forward to a long answer :) 

 

Edited October 2, 2016 by MikeyIdea
It was 6 different places

[thomago]

I enjoyed reading your thoughtful and informative comment. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[zxc]

A few points to consider.

It's traditional for grandparents to do the bulk of child rearing - that cannot help with discipline as grandparents are generally petty soft or probably too tired to keep on top of the youngsters.

I believe Thai parents see their responsibility to the extended family, not simply to their children.

Many parents, sometimes both, sometimes one, are working away from home and will see their children once or twice a year; not a good situation in which to teach values to a child

The lack of education does not help and, from what I've seen, schools do not help form rounded adults from their intake.
But then again, neither do many UK schools.

Did we in the UK happily wear helmets or seatbelts when the law was changed given overwhelming medical evidence of the benefits? No we didn't.

Similarly, why do we still smoke when we know it kills us?



Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[The Dark Lord]

On 30/09/2016 at 0:34 AM, richard_smith237 said:

This question has multifaceted answers....  Its impossible to be correct because any answer generalises a whole society... 

 

What I can offer to this discussion is IMO the Standards of Parenting with specific regard to Child safety are significantly less through all facets of society in Thailand than in the West.

 

Poor kids on Bikes without any helmets, wealthier children in expensive vehicles without car seats, sat (or stood) on mums lap in the front...  There are those I know from well educated backgrounds who have car seats, but don't use the straps because 'little one' doesn't like it. 

 

My own Mother In Law suggested we take my Son out of the Car seat because he 'didn't like it'... 

 

 

Just like western parents in the 70's... Its not that they didn't care... they just didn't know... Standards, education and parenting techniques evolve...  We know more now than we knew 'then'....  

 

This is why I consider for those who are informed there is no excuse with regards to safety - Poor parenting definitely exists... but through the spectrum of 'Parenting Standards' as we evolve, standards are improving in the West and in Thailand... 

 

The Key issue for me when any 'parenting standard' is concerned is: Are the children cared, truly loved and in a safe environment....

 

(well... at least until I got in at 4am the other morning and my son required a nappy change... I'd put his pyjamas on back to front !!! = Parenting Fail !!!)...

 

 

I fully agree with your comments about children standing on mummy's knee in the front seat and not putting on safety seats because "little precious "does not like it however factor in the crass arrogance of some of these people who genuinely believe that the farang, whilst older and possibly more workd wise than them has no place to tell them what to do.

 

i have an ignorant inherited step son who lost his brother in a pretty horrific road accident ( u turn, night time, 3up on motor bike) which broke his mother ( my wife's) heart.

 

i therefore purchased a brand new car for all the family to use which he proceeded to assume was his, modified it and etc without permission. We even "invested" THB 10k in a baby seat for his newborn. 

 

I see the idiot driving with the the seat belt ticked behind him so as to turn off the alarm ( excuse being he has a sick stomach) the baby seat thrown into the corner with all the accumulated junk, never used, child standing on mummy's knee or ( even better) sitting on the arm rest between the two front seats watching the TV situated in the centre of the dashboard that idiot boy had installed to keep the kids occupied whilst travelling the four or so km between house and school.

 

when I blew my top and told them why, the face told me that there was no way he was going to take any advice, direction or instruction from a foreign git like me.

 

result?

 

he had the car taken off him and had to go and buy his own. What he does in that is exactly the same as he did in the "spare" car I bought but at least I bear no responsibility when he tries to clean his kid from the windscreen.

 

moral of the story, arrogance and ignorance are a bad combination, no matter how hard you try and give good parenting advice.

[SaintLouisBlues]

Not to mention encouraging children sit down on public transport while decrepit grandparents are forced to stand

[MikeyIdea]

On 02/01/2017 at 11:05 AM, SaintLouisBlues said:

Not to mention encouraging children sit down on public transport while decrepit grandparents are forced to stand

 

SaintLouisBlues: Good sample

 

We discuss the understanding  of Thai parenting standards. You have given your western view, now also please contribute your understanding of the point you bring up, what's the underlying reason why decrepit grandparents are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand

 

Or have you perhaps mis-understood? Are decrepit grandparents who actually need to sit forced to stand up to allow a child to sit in Thailand? 

 

[MikeyIdea]

On 31/12/2016 at 11:06 AM, zxc said:

It's traditional for grandparents to do the bulk of child rearing - that cannot help with discipline as grandparents are generally petty soft or probably too tired to keep on top of the youngsters.

 

An important part of Thai culture is that elders should be respected. Also younger generation more modern and well educated parents will respectfully keep quiet and allow the grandparent to teach their child the way the grandparents parent taught her, even if they know it's old fashioned and not good

 

That part of Thai culture contribute to slower change and the leaders of this country (the Ministry of Education and the likes) are very well aware of it. There is no easy solution

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by MikeyIdea

[surangw]

at least have the kids wear seat belts

[HooHaa]

I reckon as a westerner priveldged enough to travel it is pretty easy to find fault with someone struggling to eat.

[1FinickyOne]

Well, with a user name of "Impartial Observer" - - you seem to cite only negative things. Have you never seen anything positive? 

 

Yes. I agree with you especially about the motorcycles. They start driving them in the village way too young and with no helmets. I don't know how you could convince a kid to be the only one or first one to wear a helmet in the village though. 

 

This is a subject that can take volumes - but from what I see in my village, there is a lot of love for their children, a hope and respect for educational advancement and as in many parts of the world, certainly back in my home country, a difficulty in controlling kids behavior. It is a changing world and parents have difficulties knowing the proper way to handle and discipline their kids... 

 

I have seen good and bad abilities. I have seen what sometimes seems to be little effort and other times great comings together of family to try and help with parenting... 

 

My guess is that parenting anywhere in the world is not easy. 

 

As to what they consider good parenting - also probably the same as anywhere... near everyone wants to see their kids succeed and they are proud when they do. They are proud when they go into the temple for their training, proud when they graduate school, proud when they get good jobs and have families.... on the negative side, I have seen them slow to assign blame for their own actions - - he was only a little drunk when the ghost knocked him off the motorcycle... I think this is done with a kindness, so the person doesn't feel bad, but I think it is not great because it takes away responsibility for poor judgment... 

Edited January 4, 2017 by kenk24

[SaintLouisBlues]

8 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

We discuss the understanding  of Thai parenting standards.

Whose understanding? We're discussing Thai understanding of Thai parenting standards or Western understanding of Thai parenting standards or Western perceptions of Thai parenting standards or Western perceptions of Thai understanding of That parenting standards?