Blood Parasite, E-Canis, Anaplasma, Thai "Vets"

[wildewillie89]

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You are right, the vets need to do the tests.. I can see that... but when we know as owners what the problem is.. because we have seen EXACTLY the same symptoms many times in the same dog... it is so frustrating to go though all this unnecessary and expensive (also time wasting) stuff.

 

My dogs are mostly house dogs.  We have a closed in garden.. with no standing water.. so they don't play or walk in water... in fact they are loath to even go outside if its raining!  

 

This time the snap test was done again.. and it came back positive. So I am sure its the tick born disease.  I think it must be really common in my area.  Honestly, there are hardly ever any tick found on the dogs.. and NEVER any in the house.  My smallest dog must have no resistance to the bacteria.  I wonder if they can get immunity over time like the street dogs must have?

 

Anyway, the little guy is home now... and acting almost back to normal.  Very easy to give the pills.. I just wrap them is a small ball of cheese!  The iron supplement paste must be tasty and they lick that up no problem.  

 

My other half suggested I never let the dogs outside in the garden.. just have a small fence in gravel area for them to go to the bathroom... and we can put lots of anti tick powder and spray in it... but I think the dogs have to have a nice life.. running about in the fresh air and laying in the sun.....  

 

 

Good the snap came back positive, well not good, but at least some closure. From memory when I got sick, humans can have antibodies to things like Ehrlichiosis for about a year, then can get reinfected. Maybe helps with your timeline of infections. The street dogs have the disease, it's just a lot of dogs won't show symptoms. Even many humans won't show symptoms. But the street dogs will eventually move into a chronic phase if they can't eliminate it themselves.

 

Yes, dogs definitely need a life outside of the house sometimes. We can't wrap them in cotton wool or they'll lIve pretty miserable lives. Mine are outside dogs in a high tick area and I will let them run around in the water even, but we just have to be very mindful and watchful of symptoms and provide good diets. I have no doubts they've caught leptospirosis and eliminated it themselves. Many villagers have where we are. 

 

Especially if you don't have a huge tick problem, I would advise against spraying. The stuff people use on this forum is considered dangerous goods back home due to causing harm and even being potentially fatal if inhaled. Not to mention they generally all have relatively high carcinogenic grades so will come back to bite you and dog later in life.

 

Pesticides are shit things so if you can, just treat the dog rather the dog, home and environment. Try find Bravecto. 250 Baht per month it equates to. Seems a lot, but it's only 3,000 a year. Rather than the 10,000 you're spending at the moment. Just watch for side effects. Good luck :)

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

[wildewillie89]

Meatboy, you probably have to be extra vigilant re ticks.

 

[meatboy]

18 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

No... I think the dog had one Imizol injection even before the snap test result came back.  Only the one... no second one.

 

I think its obvious when they have this disease.... so the tests and blood work are not needed.  I know my dogs have it when they have the following symptoms:

 

1.  Stop eating

2. Have a fever.. their belly feels really hot.

3.  Lethargic 

4.  Pale gums instead of the normal red / pink colour.

 

Every time they get these symptoms I know they have the tick disease.  So why the vets have to do all the bloodwork, tests, wormers, tick spot on, etc etc.. must be just to make money.. rather than give me the antibiotic the dogs need.

 

They don't even really need a follow up exam when the dog recovers.. because, provided they have given the antibiotic and proper dose for the correct time period the disease will be over.... and if the dog is back to normal behaviour then that is enough. 

 

 

 

I am so sorry to read your post regarding the symptoms,the 4 you mention I am afraid you are right with your asumption

my boy has never had any of those 4 symptoms,yet they [VETS] kept playing with our emotions and lying through their teeth.i am not surprised the vet didn't insist on the second imizol injection because the injection doesn't work without the second dose,we found out this later.this is what we found out at the vetinary uni.regarding a snap test,another one should not be done for at least a yr.after the wife's second visit to khon kaen uni,the wife took our boy to a new vet for his yrly.

injections,she told the vet about his visit to the uni.and what treatment he had,they took the dog into a room then came back and said he needs urgent treatment,the bar-stewards had done a blood test and a snap test without our agreeing

to these,i was livid and the wife more or less threw the amount they charged on her desk and walked out minus 3,000bht.for what should have been a simple rabies jab.

all I can say is get what medications you need,doxy,prednisolone, not to be taken together[morning-evening] is best.

I found hepato good for the liver,or livervital/ferovit,you can look these up as well,ursolin,samarin,amoxicillin.irofer,

and a blood booster eg.ferric plus.

my heart goes out to you,make the dog as comfortable as possible,sorry JAK I have to call it a day.i am afraid my mind wanders.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[meatboy]

HI WW89 what can you find out about HEPATOZOON,this we found out after our boys first blood test.

its very rare,the cause is the dog eating an affected dog tick,this was about 3yrs.ago.nothing showed up after a snap test at the uni[march 2017] yet the vet at the uni said they have had quite a lot of cases lately.this is 200klms.from where we live.anyone who moves to Thailand MUST take notice of the dangers here.myself being involved with dogs for over 40yrs.mostly greyhounds had never came across any sort of these retched pests,so it was down to me not knowing anything about parasites,so I was to blame for for my boy catching the disease.so far we seem to be tick free in the house its got to be over a yr.they were in the bedroom,under the bed,on the curtains,walls not a lot but one or 2 now and then.i too was bitten by the dog tick came of my boy who sleeps with us.as our pets are part of our lives,we can only do so much to make them safe,for me and mrs.meat enough is NOT enough.

[wildewillie89]

53 minutes ago, meatboy said:

HI WW89 what can you find out about HEPATOZOON,this we found out after our boys first blood test.

its very rare,the cause is the dog eating an affected dog tick,this was about 3yrs.ago.nothing showed up after a snap test at the uni[march 2017] yet the vet at the uni said they have had quite a lot of cases lately.this is 200klms.from where we live.anyone who moves to Thailand MUST take notice of the dangers here.myself being involved with dogs for over 40yrs.mostly greyhounds had never came across any sort of these retched pests,so it was down to me not knowing anything about parasites,so I was to blame for for my boy catching the disease.so far we seem to be tick free in the house its got to be over a yr.they were in the bedroom,under the bed,on the curtains,walls not a lot but one or 2 now and then.i too was bitten by the dog tick came of my boy who sleeps with us.as our pets are part of our lives,we can only do so much to make them safe,for me and mrs.meat enough is NOT enough.

Haven't had much to do with Hepatozoonosis so I am not well read on it. But yes, dogs can pick it up from eating an infected tick (whilst eating food or grooming), or eating a small animal, for example a rodent, who is infected. Usually the disease isn't too serious, however it can be serious if it coincides with another tick disease. So in the context of Thailand most likely Ehrlichiosis or Babesiosis. Also if the dog has a weak immune system complications/more aggressive symptoms will occur.

 

In terms of Thailand, I think there was a study in Bangkok I remember reading a few months ago that showed roughly a third of districts within Bangkok surveyed had dogs and cats test positive to the disease. So I have no doubt it is endemic all around the country. These sorts of things usually happen before universities get a chance to go out and do the relevant field work. For example, human doctors will dismiss tick diseases quite quickly. I had to show them some Mahidol University papers in Khon Kaen University Hospital until they looked into it and, yes, ended up diagnosing me with Rickettsia (Ehrlichiosis). 

 

Treatment seems difficult. Doxy and Imidocarb (Imizol) are the standard treatments right now along with supportive care. Although they are not 100% effective, so there is currently research being done to find better treatments. So with Hepatozoonosis and a co-infection of Ehrlichiosis, it seems the treatment may well be long and hard (possibly requiring vet stays). 

Standard treatment back in the West seems to be 14 days, however, it is followed with long term use of other drugs. If it is not strictly followed relapse is very likely to occur. Seems it is a lucky dog who manages to get cured. 

I know a sensitive topic, but over vaccination keeps the immune system quite weak with these diseases. My vet stocks the 3 core vaccines in 1 so vets in Thailand who only stock the 7 in 1 you know are ripping you off. Big problems about this in Singapore right now as they too only stock 7 in 1. My old vet used to only keep that one who ripped me off. Generally, the many of the disease strains aren't too bad as the dogs immune system takes gradual hits which strengthen it over the first 2-3 years of life. Just how many cases of puppy mange cures itself after a year, as the immune system boosts.

 However, 7 in 1 vaccines plus rabies is 8 a year. That is a vaccine every 6 weeks of the dogs life if still in individual syringes. Immune system is suppressed beyond belief, so the dog will not be able to handle the bacteria as effectively as the immune system is only running on half its cylinders. I currently put in the 3 core (parvo, distemper, adeno) plus rabies on a 3 yearly basis. So a vaccine every 39 weeks instead of every 6 weeks. Also puppy shots are only the 3 core plus rabies. Living in a high tick, lepto endemic area, rural area, outside dogs who love playing in water, it is purely food, Bravecto and world vaccination protocol that I believe is keeping my dogs free of these diseases.

Edited September 19, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

thanks for the reply WW89,we can all learn from others who have gone through the same,wether its true or false.

the late isanbirder who went through the same,always said if the dog seems well he is,if he isn't he will let you know.

in just about 3yrs.only once had my boy shown any stress related to parasite disease,that was a wobble or two.

it did take almost 4months before we said enough is enough.i did have my doubts that we were getting a true picture.

then 8months later he had a fight with a 3mtr.snake so I thought get him checked out,yes WW here we go again,this time they [vet] caused him to have a bloody nose 14hrs.the hospital said it was the antibiotics mixed with steroids that had done it.we kept having him tested and the same as before,here we go again.i don't want to tempt fate but the only time my boy wasn't his useual happy go lucky was when he was on medication,it made him so depressed  it also made me very angry.so all you guys who have dogs take notice of everything that posted in this forum and before you make any commitment to get a lovable pet here in los.think very hard before you do.

[wildewillie89]

1 minute ago, meatboy said:

thanks for the reply WW89,we can all learn from others who have gone through the same,wether its true or false.

the late isanbirder who went through the same,always said if the dog seems well he is,if he isn't he will let you know.

in just about 3yrs.only once had my boy shown any stress related to parasite disease,that was a wobble or two.

it did take almost 4months before we said enough is enough.i did have my doubts that we were getting a true picture.

then 8months later he had a fight with a 3mtr.snake so I thought get him checked out,yes WW here we go again,this time they [vet] caused him to have a bloody nose 14hrs.the hospital said it was the antibiotics mixed with steroids that had done it.we kept having him tested and the same as before,here we go again.i don't want to tempt fate but the only time my boy wasn't his useual happy go lucky was when he was on medication,it made him so depressed  it also made me very angry.so all you guys who have dogs take notice of everything that posted in this forum and before you make any commitment to get a lovable pet here in los.think very hard before you do.

Another thing with Hepatozoonosis is that it comes and goes (as many cases aren't cured). Things like fever, weight loss, no appetite, but also muscle pain and in particular weak back legs. 

Yep, I was incredibly naive when first moved here. First vet had my dog on antibiotics for a couple of months, spot treatment every week rather than every month, ivermectin and something else I cant remember to try and cure the puppy mange. The stresses of moving to a new country, new job, building new house, new baby all at the same time preoccupied my mind for those couple of months. Then finally it hit me, what am I doing. Just feed the dog a better diet and I researched a better drug my dad could send me from back home (Bravecto - before licensing here so my vet didn't have it). Cured it in a couple of weeks (microscope tested). So wasted thousands of baht and put all this shit into the dog for no reason which just suppressed her immune system. Stupid Will. 

Thailand certainly keeps us on our toes, but the positive is that it keeps our brains active. With the dogs and kid (soon to be kids) I am always in constant conversations with vets and doctors. Some of the conversations you have with some baby doctors here are more incredible than you have with the vets believe it or not. So important to find one good doctor and one good vet nearish to where you live. 

[meatboy]

once again we find ourselves wishing we had never set foot in Thailand again,our beloved is not well again.

a nose bleed at 10pm.not having nowhere to go we were lucky we had some tablets to stop the bleeding,it stopped at 2.30am. then it was to the animal hospital not far away.a blood test revealed ananaplasma,e canis,and a enlarged spleen.so it was a complete new set of medication,besides doxy,heparto,ferrous sulfate and ki.50.ulsanic it was little food till his next test,this was a couple of days before I ended up in hospital with some bad seizure's.on the second night I missed my boy so much I checked out.i was very confused so I didn't now what was happening.

since the 4th.nov.he has been on vetrisam e.usolin,doxy,prednisolone,enrofloxacin [baytril] ferrous sulfate and up until 9am.this morning he has been a different dog,eating well morning and evening and wanting to play.this morning he had all his breakfast up,so I am not happy at all.

one thing we did find out after demanding a urine test was,the leaking he had was from an infection and since sunday 12th.the leaking has stopped and the licking. but also the suculfrarate stopped 2days ago,with the vets approval.

the 3 test results which have been carried out at an animal testing lab have revealed parasites.

it is eating me up inside as I love my boy SO MUCH. 

our next move is to have someone to take our boy to THONG -LOR animal hospital.

[wildewillie89]

11 minutes ago, meatboy said:

once again we find ourselves wishing we had never set foot in Thailand again,our beloved is not well again.

a nose bleed at 10pm.not having nowhere to go we were lucky we had some tablets to stop the bleeding,it stopped at 2.30am. then it was to the animal hospital not far away.a blood test revealed ananaplasma,e canis,and a enlarged spleen.so it was a complete new set of medication,besides doxy,heparto,ferrous sulfate and ki.50.ulsanic it was little food till his next test,this was a couple of days before I ended up in hospital with some bad seizure's.on the second night I missed my boy so much I checked out.i was very confused so I didn't now what was happening.

since the 4th.nov.he has been on vetrisam e.usolin,doxy,prednisolone,enrofloxacin [baytril] ferrous sulfate and up until 9am.this morning he has been a different dog,eating well morning and evening and wanting to play.this morning he had all his breakfast up,so I am not happy at all.

one thing we did find out after demanding a urine test was,the leaking he had was from an infection and since sunday 12th.the leaking has stopped and the licking. but also the suculfrarate stopped 2days ago,with the vets approval.

the 3 test results which have been carried out at an animal testing lab have revealed parasites.

it is eating me up inside as I love my boy SO MUCH. 

our next move is to have someone to take our boy to THONG -LOR animal hospital.

What parasite treatment is he on? Can't remember if I have asked that before. Spot on treatments, like your Frontline, I find don't work well in Thai, especially for the bigger dogs (I only use them on puppies less than 6-9 months). 

So he could just be continually getting re infected, as he returns to the same environment (home). From memory, it was up to a quarter of ticks in some places in Thai that carry diseases. 

Mine are due for blood tests next month. The CO last time had gone through 14 months of life no infections, so this will be 20 months if come back clean. Although I pushed the Bravecto to 4 months (as it is a strong pesticide) this time round to give her body a break so will be interesting to see if it can be pushed that long or not. 

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

What parasite treatment is he on? Can't remember if I have asked that before. Spot on treatments, like your Frontline, I find don't work well in Thai, especially for the bigger dogs (I only use them on puppies less than 6-9 months). 

So he could just be continually getting re infected, as he returns to the same environment (home). From memory, it was up to a quarter of ticks in some places in Thai that carry diseases. 

Mine are due for blood tests next month. The CO last time had gone through 14 months of life no infections, so this will be 20 months if come back clean. Although I pushed the Bravecto to 4 months (as it is a strong pesticide) this time round to give her body a break so will be interesting to see if it can be pushed that long or not. 

thanks WW89 my mind is not working at all,we have only found 1 tick on him the past 30months,we were using controlline,but that is not available so its been cleartix the past 4months.we just don't know were to go next.we have had blood tests the past 3yrs.with conflicting results,the last 3 ,13th.oct.4thnov.18th.nov.

13th.illichia and annaplasma.

4th.illichia and hepatozoon.

18th.barbesia,illichia and hepatozoon.

these tests were done at an animal lab.

over the past 3yrs.his WBC.and RBC.have been fine its only been his platelet count that have given us concern,but the vets don't seem to be concerned.

when we found out the water infection was making him sick and not wanting to eat,by his constant licking his pee as soon as he started the medication he has been fine.

the thing is I have copies of all his blood tests which must be over 20 yet the only worry is the platelet count

we have had ULTRA SOUND,X-RAYS yet the only worry has been the enlarged spleen which the wife drew attention to, but we were told nothing to worry about,this has gone down on his last check up.

his next test is 2nd.dec.when all the medication he is on runs out.so we have to wait and see whats next.

 

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

thanks WW89 my mind is not working at all,we have only found 1 tick on him the past 30months,we were using controlline,but that is not available so its been cleartix the past 4months.we just don't know were to go next.we have had blood tests the past 3yrs.with conflicting results,the last 3 ,13th.oct.4thnov.18th.nov.

13th.illichia and annaplasma.

4th.illichia and hepatozoon.

18th.barbesia,illichia and hepatozoon.

these tests were done at an animal lab.

over the past 3yrs.his WBC.and RBC.have been fine its only been his platelet count that have given us concern,but the vets don't seem to be concerned.

when we found out the water infection was making him sick and not wanting to eat,by his constant licking his pee as soon as he started the medication he has been fine.

the thing is I have copies of all his blood tests which must be over 20 yet the only worry is the platelet count

we have had ULTRA SOUND,X-RAYS yet the only worry has been the enlarged spleen which the wife drew attention to, but we were told nothing to worry about,this has gone down on his last check up.

his next test is 2nd.dec.when all the medication he is on runs out.so we have to wait and see whats next.

 

I think for a Husky, I would get off the spot on and use the more serious drugs - Bravecto (like any treatment, watch for side effects). Huskies don't weigh that much so will only cost 750 baht every 3 months. I have to pay 3,000 for 3 months as Thailand doesn't include the 40-56kg in their range for some reason. Although it isn't great using a strong drug on a sick dog, the only other option is to let the dog keep on getting infected so it is the lesser evil in my eyes. 

Spot ons are usually low 90s% in terms of effectiveness whereas the stronger drugs are high 90s%.
5% is nothing back home, but it makes a huge difference here as the % of ticks actually carrying diseases is so much higher. 

Did the vet have an idea whether it was an acute or chronic stage of Ehrlichia/Anaplasma? Where did you get the test done for Babesia? Both acute and chronic ehrlichia have similar symptoms so it is hard to distinguish. If it is the acute phase then the dog should respond to the treatment - so he must just keep on getting re-infected if tests keep coming back positive. 

If the chronic phase, well then not much you can do. Can treat the dog but the prognosis is very poor.  

If has Babesia and Hepatozoon and keeps on getting other infections then symptoms will obviously be worse. Both those diseases are difficult to impossible to get rid of in many dogs.

If my dog, I would switch to better parasite treatment. Treat him for the ehrlicha/anaplasma, make sure his diet is good to resist the infections or help pass them through naturally and hope for the best. Not much you can do with Hepatozoon/Babesia if it keeps coming back, but it is important not to let other infections arise as his immune system would be battling with hep/babesia. 

 

Would be very careful of your contact with the dog, so be careful if search for ticks, fluids etc. Wear gloves when searching, check yourself and home regularly. I had an initial diagnoses of Rickettsia from Khon Kaen hospital in April this year. The infection passed, but to this day I struggle with my health, so got in contact with a Rickettsia research lab back home (who also do work in Thai) who have suggested I test for antibodies based on my current symptoms in discussion with my doctor. That was from getting tick blood all over my hands from looking for ticks on the in laws dog who had tested positive to Ehrlichiosis. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

I am at my wits end to understand,of all the blood tests that we have had done,hepatozoon was found 3yrs.ago,and last yr at khon kaen,but how have they just found babesia 4days ago,he had already had 2lots of imizol injections.we search high and low every night and find NOTHING.we understand that hepatozoon does not go away but where did the babesia come from.

[wildewillie89]

Babesia comes from ticks. A Mahidol University paper written, from memory, a decade ago claimed that Rickettsia and perhaps Babesia would be the two tick borne diseases that will threaten pets and humans in the future in Thai. 

I think it is a cousin of Malaria. So even when treated it usually comes back. So some pretty chronic diseases the poor boy has, that is why it is important to at least prevent the Ehrlichia/Anaplasma. 

[meatboy]

thanks WW what is worrying us is we have copies of his blood tests,and there seems something new every time he has a test.all his blood counts over 3yrs.are well within the range,only his platelet count is low,yet when we get it done at another lab its a different score each time.back in march one hospital gave his liver count as 10,000 so when we went to kohn kaen uni.they scored it at 1439,when we questioned it they explained the high score was to do with the medication he is taking.may this yr.at a new vets hospital we went to for a blood test,out of 12 main blood counts only his platelet count was down,but his blood parasite check came back positive,anaplasma and e.canis,but 2weeks before kohn kaen uni said it was only hepatozoon that was traced.he had 2 imizol inj.after a snap test as well.i cannot come to terms with the amount of medication he has been taking,because its only that which is making him depressed.he is totally different without it.back in april he was taking,3XHEPARTO,2X SILLYMIRIN,1XSUCRALATE / PLUS 6XPREDNISLONE that was with breakfast.

[wildewillie89]

Low platelet count can be an indicator the dog is in sub-clinical Ehrlichia/Anaplasma phase (which can last for a long time before it turns chronic or the dog can eliminate it). Elevated liver counts can also be a result of using too much Doxy (up to 40% of treated dogs can have this problem according to the University of Pennsylvania). So similar to what your vets said.

Coinfections are quite common with Ehrlichia/Anaplasma unfortunately, so makes treating and diagnosing even harder. Especially as many areas in Thai don't have the tests on hand sometimes. Usually sub-clinical phase has no symptoms, so are the symptoms a result of the Hepatozoon or Babesia? Or is the dog in the acute phase of a new Ehrlichia/Anaplasma and the symptoms are a result of that? I would have thought if the dog was in the chronic phase (same symptoms as the acute phase), then the bloods wouldn't be as good as they are. Are the bacteria resistant to antibiotics now (Thailand is known for antibiotic resistant bacteria)? Some dogs will be weaker in terms of this than other dogs. 

So many variable is probably why it is so hard for your vets (and impossible for us), as the dog has so many diseases that they are not sure what is actually causing what, and at what stage is each disease at so they aren't 100% sure on treatment. All have similar non-specific symptoms. 

In saying all that, reinfection WILL happen with no proper parasite control. The previous poster had, was it 4 tick diseases already in the one dog with spot ons? Controline or Cleartix I would NOT be using in Thailand, as I just don't think spot ons work to a level sufficient enough to prevent disease. Back home, they are fine, more than fine actually...but they just don't cut it here.

 

That is why I kinda got a bit annoyed when I first joined this forum, and I am sure you all got annoyed at me also as I was coming from a whole different approach to what you all had been doing - but I could see what was going to happen in the future if continue down this line. 

The different members stories of continual uses of spot ons, weekly baths with chemicals, trimming the dogs coat, spraying dangerous/cancer causing agents around the place, crap food, over vaccinating, god knows what else were all setting the dog up to get sick as their immune systems are running on 2 cylinders. A healthy dog should be able to pass Anaplasma/Ehrlichiosis by itself in most cases even without Doxy, but it shouldn't have to if it has proper parasite treatment.   

Your case is so hard now, and i do feel sorry for the dog, the vets and you. But get on better tick control. Ignore the fear mongering campaigns, as right now the chance of a tick killing your dog is so much higher than the chance of Bravecto or NexGuard killing it. I hate it when people say 'TIT', but in this particular case it is justified. This is Thailand, soft treatments we are used to do not work to the level we need them to here in many places. 

[meatboy]

16 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Low platelet count can be an indicator the dog is in sub-clinical Ehrlichia/Anaplasma phase (which can last for a long time before it turns chronic or the dog can eliminate it). Elevated liver counts can also be a result of using too much Doxy (up to 40% of treated dogs can have this problem according to the University of Pennsylvania). So similar to what your vets said.

Coinfections are quite common with Ehrlichia/Anaplasma unfortunately, so makes treating and diagnosing even harder. Especially as many areas in Thai don't have the tests on hand sometimes. Usually sub-clinical phase has no symptoms, so are the symptoms a result of the Hepatozoon or Babesia? Or is the dog in the acute phase of a new Ehrlichia/Anaplasma and the symptoms are a result of that? I would have thought if the dog was in the chronic phase (same symptoms as the acute phase), then the bloods wouldn't be as good as they are. Are the bacteria resistant to antibiotics now (Thailand is known for antibiotic resistant bacteria)? Some dogs will be weaker in terms of this than other dogs. 

So many variable is probably why it is so hard for your vets (and impossible for us), as the dog has so many diseases that they are not sure what is actually causing what, and at what stage is each disease at so they aren't 100% sure on treatment. All have similar non-specific symptoms. 

In saying all that, reinfection WILL happen with no proper parasite control. The previous poster had, was it 4 tick diseases already in the one dog with spot ons? Controline or Cleartix I would NOT be using in Thailand, as I just don't think spot ons work to a level sufficient enough to prevent disease. Back home, they are fine, more than fine actually...but they just don't cut it here.

 

That is why I kinda got a bit annoyed when I first joined this forum, and I am sure you all got annoyed at me also as I was coming from a whole different approach to what you all had been doing - but I could see what was going to happen in the future if continue down this line. 

The different members stories of continual uses of spot ons, weekly baths with chemicals, trimming the dogs coat, spraying dangerous/cancer causing agents around the place, crap food, over vaccinating, god knows what else were all setting the dog up to get sick as their immune systems are running on 2 cylinders. A healthy dog should be able to pass Anaplasma/Ehrlichiosis by itself in most cases even without Doxy, but it shouldn't have to if it has proper parasite treatment.   

Your case is so hard now, and i do feel sorry for the dog, the vets and you. But get on better tick control. Ignore the fear mongering campaigns, as right now the chance of a tick killing your dog is so much higher than the chance of Bravecto or NexGuard killing it. I hate it when people say 'TIT', but in this particular case it is justified. This is Thailand, soft treatments we are used to do not work to the level we need them to here in many places. 

thanks a lot WILL,it is very difficult for us to know whats happening,yesterday he was bouncing and appart from tues he has been eating breakfast and dinner as he cant get enough.we do feed him the best,cooked veg,breast of chicken,best beef [pon-yang-kham] smart heart gold fit and firm nothing with added flavouring,if you saw him galloping around the house he is like a 2 yr.old.its only doxy which he don't like,he must of had over 400 so are they working.its only when he gets a nose bleed that worries me as I say here we go again.

the first was an incompetent vet mixing steroids,sulfa and antibiotics.

the second we put down to a rat bite.

the third was slight and only minimal'

his liver and kidneys have never been a problem.

its just the conflicting reports from the vets,if you saw him he acts like a 2 yr.old.

the worst problem I found out about was the leaking,which I put down to drinking cold water at first,then the wife asked the vetinary uni.to perform a urine test back in april that went on deaf ear's.then our latest vet did perform one after 3demands,after finding out from the test YES IT WAS AN INFECTION, within a couple of days,NO LEAKING,NO LICKING HIS PEE, and completely cleared up.this we don't understand with these vets,apart from the wife telling them this at the uni.on his first visit to the new vets they saw he was leaking yellowish pee on the floor.[13th.oct.] yet it was the 4th.nov.before the urine test was done.its just as if they don't want to treat him for whats bothering him.

we don't care what it costs us as he comes first in our house,its just as if the vets now this.

the trouble is I have a job to keep my emotions in check.

meatboy.

[meatboy]

some good news for a change,the wife took him to a different vets.who had good ultra sound equipment.

wanting to have his spleen tested which apparently was oversized,well the result came back sound with a good reason and nothing to worry about.also his liver and kidney's perfect and no gallstones.

now for his next blood test on Friday which is one big worry,over the past 3yrs.there have been around 30blood tests which have shown or should I say parasites present,its always been one or two,but his last test on the 17th.nov.it came back that there was FOUR present.

HEPATOZOON.

ANAPLASMA.

E-CANIS.

BABASIA which is the last one found according to the animal testing lab.so where have this one arrived from as we have not had one tick on our boy for 2yrs.and nothing around the house either.

looking at his test results its difficult to find any trouble apart from his platelet score.

his wbc.and rbc.are well within the range and he does look really well.

meatboy.

[wildewillie89]

Did he get bitten by another dog? Other than ticks, that is another way he may have got it. 

From memory, it is the really small ticks that transmit Babesia, and need to be latched on for longer than a day to transmit the disease. There is roughly a 7% chance of the tick getting past your regular parasite treatment, and as it is the small variety of tick, a good chance you wouldn't have even seen it. 

 

That is where the stronger parasite controls are better, only a 1-2% chance. 

 

The Anaplasma and Ehrlichiosis are simply fixed, so if treated they shouldn't come up in the coming blood test. However, if still use the spot on parasite control don't be surprised if they keep coming up in the future. 

[kickstart]

Babesie in dogs, the parasite  can remain in the animal for a long time , one vet web site said many years  without showing any visible  symptoms ,so you have a blood test done ,and it will show up for sure  and the owner will think the  dog has the disease,  also it can flare up again under times of stress and immunologic imbalance 

 

Anaplasmoses, the dog will get overr it but will be in premunition and remain carriers for a long time ,probable life, or a farming term remains salted for life, so any further blood tests will show symptoms , but the animal will not will not actually have the disease .

 

Also depends on the species of tics different species will show slightly different systems , in cattle ,my field,  mixed infections are the problem ones and are often fatal, not certain if dogs can get mixed infections .

 

I have heard that mosquitoes can spread tic fever ,a look in my vet dictionary confirms that.

 

Again looking at the web, mainly Ameican websites, they have an array of  antibiotics  to treat tic fever, where I am we have  Oxytetracycline  only, whether bigger city practice have more drugs I do not know , Imazol is also used .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[meatboy]

thanks to WW89 and KICKSTART for your replies.before we had him he did get loose that was about 8yrs.ago so if he did get bit it must have been before we had him.when we got him he was very weak with a high temp.and was put on a drip.

it is three yrs.of test after test,with many as 99% all showing a very good laboratory analysis report.

I don't understand that many of the tests like the one I am looking at now dated 4th. nov. 2015.

blood parasite anaplasma platys ehrlichia canis   along side NOT FOUND.

then this one dated 29th.march 2017 test done at veterinary medicine khon kaen university only showed hepatozoon canis,which is very rare,but could be hiding in a very small amount of blood and it could not show up in a test for yrs.

he hid have an imazol injection then a follow up one 14days later.

what does worry me also is the amount of medication he is on,runs out 1st.dec.these have been on 28days.

doxy x3 every day.

ferrous sulfate x2 

vetrisame x1

enrofloxacin x1

ursolin x1

prednisolone 2x 1/2

that is 9 tabs.a day.

[wildewillie89]

10 minutes ago, meatboy said:

thanks to WW89 and KICKSTART for your replies.before we had him he did get loose that was about 8yrs.ago so if he did get bit it must have been before we had him.when we got him he was very weak with a high temp.and was put on a drip.

it is three yrs.of test after test,with many as 99% all showing a very good laboratory analysis report.

I don't understand that many of the tests like the one I am looking at now dated 4th. nov. 2015.

blood parasite anaplasma platys ehrlichia canis   along side NOT FOUND.

then this one dated 29th.march 2017 test done at veterinary medicine khon kaen university only showed hepatozoon canis,which is very rare,but could be hiding in a very small amount of blood and it could not show up in a test for yrs.

he hid have an imazol injection then a follow up one 14days later.

what does worry me also is the amount of medication he is on,runs out 1st.dec.these have been on 28days.

doxy x3 every day.

ferrous sulfate x2 

vetrisame x1

enrofloxacin x1

ursolin x1

prednisolone 2x 1/2

that is 9 tabs.a day.

If has already had the Imazol injection two times for the month, which I think is standard practice, then not much else you can really do. The injection has a high fail rate for Hepatozoon, basically it is just hope/pleasing people until a new medication is found. 

What was the actual justification for the rest of the pills? If bloods and CT were pretty good. Doxy for the month fair enough to treat the Anaplasma/Ehrlichia, but what did they say the rest would achieve?

 

[meatboy]

thanks WW89 forgot to mention some of the above meds.he has been on for 7weeks.that includes doxy.

its rearly difficult for us to know what to do,i posted a few yrs.ago who can you trust.they [vets] know of the love for our dog and their love to get as much money out of you they can.i can prove that they can fiddle blood tests.

one so called vet held his blood after taken for 43hrs.before they took it to the lab.then came back with a money grabbing idea how they would frighten us,but the wife had more brains than them.she got in touch with the lab and they told her to dismiss the test.i also caught out another.

the problem with these vets is,we live in a big house,me being a farang,they know money is no object,so they see our boy as an A.T.M.that is what me and mrs. meat DONT LIKE.but they have us by the short and curlies.

[wildewillie89]

I would be checking what the drugs are for and then asking the vet exactly why the dog needs them. If the vet's answer isn't in line with the role of the drugs and symptoms of the dog then I wouldn't bother continuing them. Also check if they are actually approved drugs. 

If they are just there to help boost the dog then really food should be enough as his bloods/CT weren't too bad anyway. So could be just ripping you off. Vets in Thai you need to put your foot down hard the very first visit. One vet ripped me off, the second I actually take the research papers/ask for very specific tests, and he has never attempted ripping me off and does now go out of his way to help me as he cant get over the fact my dogs don't come back with iffy blood work. He has done over my Thai uncle a few times though lol. 

Get on the Bravecto to stop any further ticks though. 

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, meatboy said:

thanks to WW89 and KICKSTART for your replies.before we had him he did get loose that was about 8yrs.ago so if he did get bit it must have been before we had him.when we got him he was very weak with a high temp.and was put on a drip.

it is three yrs.of test after test,with many as 99% all showing a very good laboratory analysis report.

I don't understand that many of the tests like the one I am looking at now dated 4th. nov. 2015.

blood parasite anaplasma platys ehrlichia canis   along side NOT FOUND.

then this one dated 29th.march 2017 test done at veterinary medicine khon kaen university only showed ,which is very rare,but could be hiding in a very small amount of blood and it could not show up in a test for yrs.

he hid have an imazol injection then a follow up one 14days later.

what does worry me also is the amount of medication he is on,runs out 1st.dec.these have been on 28days.

doxy x3 every day.

ferrous sulfate x2 

vetrisame x1

enrofloxacin x1

ursolin x1

prednisolone 2x 1/2

that is 9 tabs.a day.

13

I would say most of these drugs are not a lot of use Enrofloxacin  ,is used mainly for intestinal problems ,in dairy cows for mastitis,  ferrous sulfate is a type of iron good for the blood ,looking at Google,ursolin , one use is gallstones, Prednisolone, againe is  gastrointestinal.

 Looking at Google vet site's  tretment for  E-Canis same  Anaplasmosis  and  Babesia  ,Imazol and Tetracyclins .

[sappersrest]

 Prednisolone

Also used for raising blood platelet count.

Ask vet to arrange for a real time PCR test approx 1400  baht this will identify the dna strain of blood parasite so as to treat it effectively with different drugs not a one size fits all approach. snap tests are not conclusive as i have found out to my horror conducted by a major animal hospital here in Chiang Mai ,snap test negative PCR test proved positive.

Kidney function levels can or as in our case go high, so at present using samylin plus extra milk thistle supplement,

The dogs are going for specific tests tomorrow 1 for palette count and the other for alt .

Question for meatyboy what is the average alt for a sight hound as reading your posts you have had dealings with greyhounds I know bred specific they can be higher than other dogs. One of our dogs is a lurcher.

[meatboy]

10 hours ago, sappersrest said:

 Prednisolone

Also used for raising blood platelet count.

Ask vet to arrange for a real time PCR test approx 1400  baht this will identify the dna strain of blood parasite so as to treat it effectively with different drugs not a one size fits all approach. snap tests are not conclusive as i have found out to my horror conducted by a major animal hospital here in Chiang Mai ,snap test negative PCR test proved positive.

Kidney function levels can or as in our case go high, so at present using samylin plus extra milk thistle supplement,

The dogs are going for specific tests tomorrow 1 for palette count and the other for alt .

Question for meatyboy what is the average alt for a sight hound as reading your posts you have had dealings with greyhounds I know bred specific they can be higher than other dogs. One of our dogs is a lurcher.

owning greyhounds for over 20yrs.i never had a health problem with any of them.

as for our dog his ALT.has been all over the place,but he has had 2 ultra sound scans this yr.and they found his liver to be perfect.considering the amount of prednisolone he has had over the past,there has been no improvement in his platelet count.but we have had fictitious score's which we found out were MADE UP.

[sappersrest]

Hi just putting out a bit of info so it may be of some help to others.

My lurcher dog had a very high ALT result two weeks ago 585 after two weeks on samylin this has now dropped to 320. (but he is still taking doxycycline plus 

Clindamycin these in combination may affect his alt results,doxy for e canis and clindamyacin for babesia )scan shows his liver is perfect

 The better news is my little thai dog a bangow cross has respond well to prednisalone and diet in one week platelet count up 85 000 .but is still on doxy for e canis

For any who may be interested the diet consisted of.  broccoli soup, mixed veg soup, spinach soup,, and chicken broth cooked with bones etc. obviously removed prior to serving.

sesame oil sprinkled on the food plus tinned fish.Varied each serving.

The dry food is Taste of the wild brand ,grain free.

 

A  good place to buy samylin is from Miscota  no duty and 2200 baht for 30 sachets.

 

 

 

[wildewillie89]

4 hours ago, sappersrest said:

Hi just putting out a bit of info so it may be of some help to others.

My lurcher dog had a very high ALT result two weeks ago 585 after two weeks on samylin this has now dropped to 320. (but he is still taking doxycycline plus 

Clindamycin these in combination may affect his alt results,doxy for e canis and clindamyacin for babesia )scan shows his liver is perfect

 The better news is my little thai dog a bangow cross has respond well to prednisalone and diet in one week platelet count up 85 000 .but is still on doxy for e canis

For any who may be interested the diet consisted of.  broccoli soup, mixed veg soup, spinach soup,, and chicken broth cooked with bones etc. obviously removed prior to serving.

sesame oil sprinkled on the food plus tinned fish.Varied each serving.

The dry food is Taste of the wild brand ,grain free.

 

A  good place to buy samylin is from Miscota  no duty and 2200 baht for 30 sachets.

 

 

 

Good post. With good diet ecanis should naturally leave the body even without doxy (obviously still treat). The point being many dogs will get these diseases and things like leptospirosis and naturally eliminate the bacteria themselves if healthy.

 

Broccoli and spinach really are super foods. I will periodically blend vegetables mixed with organs and give it to the dogs.

 

Chicken broth isn't a bad treat in summer also. Can freeze in small containers and give it to them. I generally stop dry food about 12 months and go raw, but a good quality dry food is mostly sufficient. I personally find older type breeds do better on raw. Plus own big dogs so raw helps negate the bloat issue (eat slower). 

 

Yay for fish. I dont understand why more people don't feed fish to their dogs. People who do swear by it. My dogs eat a whole fish for breakfast everyday. My Caucasian so far has 19 months of perfect blood/no disease and hasn't been washed for a year... and to be honest, probably won't be washed for the next 10 years - as most livestock guardians who live in the elements/fed right aren't.

 

The self cleaning coat is incredible in terms of mud/dirt/odour, but the idea being if washed often then the natural parasite protection of the coat is damaged, leaving them more vulnerable to ticks. 

 

A so so diet will get by in farang land but I think a good diet is critical in Thailand.

[meatboy]

yesterday was his trip to the vets,she was pleased with the water infection he had had  no leaking for the last 15days,so she cut out the baytril that's one antibiotic less,as the ultra sound proved there was no gallstones she cut out the ursolin,and the ulsanic.

the prednisolone was cut to 1/2 a day.he had put back on some weight and seemed happy.

now for the negative,she didn't think a blood test would prove anything,but she gave him an imizol injection to help fight the babesia and the e-canis.he did take everything in his stride,but what worries us more is his appetite,he doesn't take too well with the doxy which is making him sick on times,its 7weeks he has been on 3 a day and he wont swallow them at all.and there are times when he will eat a good meal in the morning [a must ] for taking meds and the same in the evening,but there are days he refuses to eat at all.today the wife will get some chicken carcases and I will follow the recipe;s posted.never in my life have I worried so much as to what I am going through now,

meatboy love me love my dog.