Seeking advice on opening grocery shop and cafe

[Pebbles33]

I'm thinking of opening a shop selling locally sourced organic products as well as some western products as there is nothing like this in the neighbourhood I'm in. 

 

Just wondering if anyone out there can share some pointers if they have experience in this area. 

 

Mainly I'm looking for recommendations for distributors in Chiang Mai that can offer consignment stock, where to buy equipment and general advice on opening a shop/grocers with cafe attached. 

 

Any input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Johpa]

Good luck trying to find a business willing to consign inventory.

[cyberfarang]

Who`s name would the business be in?

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Margins are generally very low in the grocery business.  TBH, you wouldn't stand a chance.  Opening a bar or get house would be a better idea and you would still face insurmountable odds.

[metisdead]

Posts containing inappropriate language have been removed. 

[millwall_fan]

You wouldn't be allowed to open a small business yourself, you'd have to put in a Thais name. If you are married to a Thai that's no problem, other than that it would have to be someone you really trust. I very much doubt you'll find anyone to consign stock, its CoD all the way here. Also there may not be an organic shop or a Western shop in your neighbourhood, but there are plenty of outlets around town and most people have cars. Sorry to sound negative, but that's the way it is!

[worgeordie]

Open a Coffee shop or 7-11,there seems to be a real shortage

of them,go with Plan B, don't do it,not worth the hassle you

would get.

regards Worgeordie

[cyberfarang]

9 hours ago, millwall_fan said:

You wouldn't be allowed to open a small business yourself, you'd have to put in a Thais name. If you are married to a Thai that's no problem, other than that it would have to be someone you really trust. I very much doubt you'll find anyone to consign stock, its CoD all the way here. Also there may not be an organic shop or a Western shop in your neighbourhood, but there are plenty of outlets around town and most people have cars. Sorry to sound negative, but that's the way it is!

A Farang still cannot open a small business hiding behind his Thai wife`s name and be an equal partner in that business. He has to register it as a company with all the rules that go with it.

[millwall_fan]

On 07/10/2016 at 0:36 AM, cyberfarang said:

A Farang still cannot open a small business hiding behind his Thai wife`s name and be an equal partner in that business. He has to register it as a company with all the rules that go with it.

I thought that was implicit in my post - but yes, as you say, such a business would have to be in your wife's sole name and she would then be allowed to employ you. 

[kalbo123]

On 5-10-2016 at 10:40 PM, Johpa said:

Good luck trying to find a business willing to consign inventory.

 

 

Consignment is very common in retail in Thailand!

 

Rim ping has most of their stock in consignment as many other supermarkets,

 

[peterb17]

I spent 15 years working in retail:

 

You really need to sit down very carefully and work out a detailed business plan.

 

THE most important thing is to research your customer base- who is going to buy all that imported food- pay a fortune for a piece of cheese or desparate for some HP sauce.

Is there a market for your organic produce- Thai customers don't care less- all on price- apart from the educated elite ( probably unlikely to visit your shop) 

 

Think about start up costs? Rental, equipment, a decent coffee machine etc etc 

 

Think about profit margins- a cafe would probably have to air con-to entice locals and any expats - that's expensive 

 

Staff costs?

 

Advertising ? 

 

Suppliers- we had 30 days to pay for suppliers- that will not apply here

 

You need to list everything - down to the price of the last stylish coffee cup and saucer- every teaspoon! 

 

Work it all out - I have a horrible suspicion that it may be very expensive to set up your dream store- but then I have no idea of your financial situation- it may be pleasant to keep you busy , designing etc. just ticking over may be good.

if however you need this enterprise to provide you / family with an income- tricky. 

[peterb17]

PS

 

Am sure others will advise you on the WP situation, setting up a Thai company ( expensive)

 

I am just a little retired person - enjoying life, traveling the world and spending all my hard earned money 

[williamgeorgeallen]

ok if you want to do it as a hobby but be warned you will not be able to do any of the hands on work. i have a business but i dont go there during business hours as i dont have a work permit. that means you are going to need trustworthy staff. this in its self is extremely difficult. i have caught 3 of my staff stealing from me. dont expect any help from the cops. i put cameras through my shop but spending hours looking through the footage does not sound like living the dream to me. 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Look at the situation with wine/cheese/and even cigars.  Seems like you could make a mint with a decent little shop selling that stuff.  Unfortunately, for every TBH you made in profit; the Excise Department would be making 10 or 20.  Same is true of a laundry list of imported items that even includes good quality laundry detergent and shaving foam.  You're not the first or the last to notice what is lacking.

[bark]

On 6/10/2559 at 4:21 PM, worgeordie said:

Open a Coffee shop or 7-11,there seems to be a real shortage

of them,go with Plan B, don't do it,not worth the hassle you

would get.

regards Worgeordie

I opened a small store, same colors as 7-11. But I called it 18.

The Thai's love it. I've been opened for 6 years, great business.

[hml367]

3 minutes ago, bark said:

I opened a small store, same colors as 7-11. But I called it 18.

The Thai's love it. I've been opened for 6 years, great business.

 

Hello, bark.

Congratulations and continued good luck.

 

If I may ask, and this is just me being curious, did/do you follow a "Western" business thinking, or have you adopted the Thai ideas of doing business?

 

Thanks.

[Minnehaha]

2 hours ago, peterb17 said:

I spent 15 years working in retail:

 

You really need to sit down very carefully and work out a detailed business plan.

 

THE most important thing is to research your customer base- who is going to buy all that imported food- pay a fortune for a piece of cheese or desparate for some HP sauce.

Is there a market for your organic produce- Thai customers don't care less- all on price- apart from the educated elite ( probably unlikely to visit your shop) 

 

Think about start up costs? Rental, equipment, a decent coffee machine etc etc 

 

Think about profit margins- a cafe would probably have to air con-to entice locals and any expats - that's expensive 

 

Staff costs?

 

Advertising ? 

 

Suppliers- we had 30 days to pay for suppliers- that will not apply here

 

You need to list everything - down to the price of the last stylish coffee cup and saucer- every teaspoon! 

 

Work it all out - I have a horrible suspicion that it may be very expensive to set up your dream store- but then I have no idea of your financial situation- it may be pleasant to keep you busy , designing etc. just ticking over may be good.

if however you need this enterprise to provide you / family with an income- tricky. 

 

Organic produce and other modern trade targeting farang like himself - is what I take from the OP. 

To add to the excellent post above, I would say location and service. Located near an isolated community or on the entrance road to same is a suggestion. People go to the nearest shop if it has what they want. 

Also, I would suggest 3 things - delivery, line app ordering, and online money transfer. Delivery can be done with the motorcy taxi - work out a deal with them for your clients. People LOVE to have their beer, milk, cigarettes, snacks, booze delivered. Will build a relationship with customers. 

[Suradit69]

37 minutes ago, hml367 said:

 

Hello, bark.

Congratulations and continued good luck.

 

If I may ask, and this is just me being curious, did/do you follow a "Western" business thinking, or have you adopted the Thai ideas of doing business?

 

Thanks.

 

" did/do you follow a "Western" business thinking "

 

Depending on what source one uses, 50% to 80% of small businesses fail in the first few years of operation. If that demonstrates "western business thinking," one would best avoid it at all costs.

[madusa]

After I sold of my cafe business in Laos(vientaine) years back I came to the conclusion that if you want to do business in Laos or Thailand you need the good luck of getting to know the big guy in town and if he or she comes in as shareholder -(especially if he or she was educated in Europe or America it makes communication easier) then you can be sure things get done.

Otherwise lots and lots of problems- too long to list them. Especially when you are making money, nobody dares to touch your business so to speak. Luck is hard to come by. I believe statistic for failure for medium size business for Farang is high, it shouldn't be if it is a normal democratic country that follows the laws (both criminal and commercial laws)

Good luck Bark.

[little mary sunshine]

You will be unable to compete with Rimping,

Makro, Tesco.   People shop at these stores

weekly for foreign products....to many Cafe's

already!!    Good luck 

[NancyL]

There's a little store just about like this in our condo building, it's like a mini-RimPing only better.  The Thai gal who runs it worked for years as a buyer with Rimping supermarket so she already knew exactly where to go for suppliers.  She's there practically all the time and knows the preferences of the customers.  She's game to stock new items, but if they don't move, then she doesn't reorder.  

 

And she's studied the needs of people and put in laundry machines (with a heated dryer!), a water machine and got a Bangkok Bank ATM outside the business.  All of which she watches on CCTV.  

 

Her store works because she knows the tastes of foreigners (not just farang, but also Japanese, Korean and she's learning about what Chinese want), knows the suppliers and is there, working the business.  Plus, she's in a location with hundreds of foreigners living within 100 meters of her place who are too lazy to walk a few hundred meters more to go to Tops or RimPing.  

 

None of this would work if the location didn't have the foot traffic or if she was lazy and inept.  Previously there had been another poor-excuse of a convenience store in the building -- Thai style with beer, soft drinks, snacks, water and a few other items.   Open whenever the owner felt like it and often out-of-stock of items.   I stopped buying anything like yogurt and milk there when I went to that store as he opened one morning and realized the guy turned off the coolers at night.  

[Autonuaq]

Beside all the things people tell you, back to the basics

 

You need a business license as well  work permit

and am afraid you can not qualify for the work permit (and possible the Visa too).

 

because you are doing the work a Thai can do.

which implies Iif I am correct that you can be the director 

have to employ 4 Thai for at least the minimum wages and yourself for the director wages the labor office tells you need to have. You can expect for yourself around 85K-100K per month

so minimum wages per day 300 or 350 THB excluding the tax fort the workers

that is around 50.000 THB for the workers

and for you lets say 85K makes including overhead cost about 150K per month you have to pay on the wages of you and the staff.

 

So 30 days per month meaning you have to make a profit per day of minimal 5.000 THB to pay the wages. the you have some other costs to lets say per day 3.000 THB makes all 8.000 THB you have to make on prifit to break even.

not sure if that was the idea. 

 

O f I am sure course you or other can fine tune a little.

 

think you are broke before you started. that is the labor law who is creating this for you.

 

you have to rely on your wife/partner and get some income else where.

and do not forget that on the forum there are many who have problem because of inspection at the location.

 

good luck

 

[bark]

2 hours ago, hml367 said:

 

Hello, bark.

Congratulations and continued good luck.

 

If I may ask, and this is just me being curious, did/do you follow a "Western" business thinking, or have you adopted the Thai ideas of doing business?

 

Thanks.

Hi, You need to do both. If you do not understand the Thai culture, you have no chance of success. But the Western thinking will save you money. I would go to a 7-11 and a Family Market store; use your video camera on your phone to see what is being sold in the stores and also pricing. You just cannot let them see you doing it. Go everyday, and video small areas of the stores. Make your store colorful and friendly. Once you open, use a big special board( the white boards, you can erase). Everyday put something that Thai love and sell at cost to get them into your store. Impossible to complete with 7-11 on price; so don't even try. But one or two items, you can. Good luck. And be nice to people.

[bark]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

" did/do you follow a "Western" business thinking "

 

Depending on what source one uses, 50% to 80% of small businesses fail in the first few years of operation. If that demonstrates "western business thinking," one would best avoid it at all costs.

Western or Eastern thinking, if you are stupid in business , you will fail. But I agree that 50 % fail in the first year of operation.

[hml367]

Thanks for tge reply.

 

I am not interested in a having a business here. As I said, just my curiosity.

 

part of my curiosity is because many posters seem to suggest business thinking from the West.

 

xThanks again.

 

[Beats56]

On 06/10/2016 at 5:30 AM, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Margins are generally very low in the grocery business.  TBH, you wouldn't stand a chance.  Opening a bar or get house would be a better idea and you would still face insurmountable odds.

My sister takes orders for supplies for variety stores and she said there is no money in retail. I believe her. 

[NoshowJones]

Just keep one thing in mind, if you are successful, someone else will soon give you competition.