Claiming Australia aged pension - advice?

[BaiLao]

adwbkk: any news?

[4MyEgo]

On 16/01/2017 at 6:39 PM, BaiLao said:

 

My understanding is that the Medicare card is lost after three years away. Would assume that if one can prove presence in Oz for even part of a year, then the Medicare card is not lost. The driving licence is renewable after ten years, I think - depends on the state.  But be careful - if you're not around to renew it on the relevant date then it may be necessary to re-sit the test.

As far as I am aware, you cannot claim Medicare after 183 days outside of Australia if you are a non resident, and the card is cancelled after 5 years, however if you return to Australia, you can claim Medicare after 6 months, but you must 1st prove to them that you are residing in Australia, e.g. copy of lease, utility bills etc etc

 

As for you r drivers licence, you can renew it from overseas as I did, you can download the form, fill it in, provide the photo/s and have it witnessed, I did it all before I left, than had it sent to my PO Box and had my daughter bring it over when she came, good for another 5 years.

[BaiLao]

adwbkk   Where are you?  And any news you'd like to share?

[4MyEgo]

15 minutes ago, BaiLao said:

adwbkk   Where are you?  And any news you'd like to share?

You may  want to send him a person message, click on his name and when his screen pops up, click on message and just type away, he should get your message.

 

Good Luck & hope that helps

Edited February 19, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[adwbkk]

On 19/02/2017 at 4:17 PM, BaiLao said:

adwbkk   Where are you?  And any news you'd like to share?

Hi BaiLao

Got back to LOS on Monday 19th and have been a little busy.   I do realise that I can post from anywhere but it is not all that convenient while using a phone.

Long story short, I went to the local RSL and met with the advocate there.   We filled in reams and reams of paper and will have to wait for a response from DVA.   I am now in the process of gathering bits and pieces together in order to move to Oz to stay full time.   I still do not know how long I must stay before I can make a trip back to LOS but I will find out and post once I know.   At this point the process has been painless and simple but I am yet to know the result.

When I get back to Oz I will be properly set up and so will post from there.

I am not looking forward to my 2 year term in the colonies!

[adwbkk]

Hi, well, as promised I can now report on my trials and tribulations in getting an Australian Aged Pension, or more correctly, a Service Pension.   A service pension is paid at the same rates as the OAP but is administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.   The rules are also slightly different in that an OAP has a requirement that the applicant must have been resident in Australia for the 2 years prior to application submission.   For the Service Pension there is no 2 year residency requirement, it is only necessary to show that you are an Australian resident.  For me that meant moving to Australia and setting up house there.   At that point I hired a 5 ton truck and sent all the application documentation off to Veterans Affairs.

After about 9 months it was determined that I was an Australian resident and then the Service Pension was processed almost in a matter of hours, at least it felt that way.   It actually took about a week.   So now I have a service pension, but, not a full pension because my wife works and we own property in Thailand and Australia.   After they had made their calculations and deductions it was almost not worth the effort but I get something which is always better than nothing.   And if my situation changes I could get more.

I will still get the pension while living in Thailand but I will not get the allowances and other “add on’s” like rental assistance and COL allowance and etc.

Overall I am happy with the result.   The biggest hurdle was gathering the information that they wanted and having the patience to stay the course.

Good luck to you all.

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, adwbkk said:

Hi, well, as promised I can now report on my trials and tribulations in getting an Australian Aged Pension, or more correctly, a Service Pension.   A service pension is paid at the same rates as the OAP but is administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs.   The rules are also slightly different in that an OAP has a requirement that the applicant must have been resident in Australia for the 2 years prior to application submission.   For the Service Pension there is no 2 year residency requirement, it is only necessary to show that you are an Australian resident.  For me that meant moving to Australia and setting up house there.   At that point I hired a 5 ton truck and sent all the application documentation off to Veterans Affairs.

 

After about 9 months it was determined that I was an Australian resident and then the Service Pension was processed almost in a matter of hours, at least it felt that way.   It actually took about a week.   So now I have a service pension, but, not a full pension because my wife works and we own property in Thailand and Australia.   After they had made their calculations and deductions it was almost not worth the effort but I get something which is always better than nothing.   And if my situation changes I could get more.

 

I will still get the pension while living in Thailand but I will not get the allowances and other “add on’s” like rental assistance and COL allowance and etc.

 

Overall I am happy with the result.   The biggest hurdle was gathering the information that they wanted and having the patience to stay the course.

 

Good luck to you all.

Just a quick clarification - in the highlighted section above it seems to say that you do not get the pension unless you are a resident for 2 years prior to application.  That is only with regards to the 'portability' issue - being able to take it overseas.  As long as you are a resident, you will get the OAP upon application.  But if you have been living overseas prior to the application, then you will not get portability for 2 years.  If you are a resident of Aust you will get the OAP when you apply (if qualified).

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by ELVIS123456

[adwbkk]

On 5/30/2018 at 3:46 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

Just a quick clarification - in the highlighted section above it seems to say that you do not get the pension unless you are a resident for 2 years prior to application.  That is only with regards to the 'portability' issue - being able to take it overseas.  As long as you are a resident, you will get the OAP upon application.  But if you have been living overseas prior to the application, then you will not get portability for 2 years.  If you are a resident of Aust you will get the OAP when you apply (if qualified).

 

Hi ELVIS123456, you could well be correct and the 2 year waiting period may relate only to portability, however, it is my understanding that if you have not been resident in Australia for the 2 years prior to application then you are not eligible until you have been resident for that time period.   When I first made application it was rejected on the basis that I was living overseas and had not been resident for the last two years.   I appealed and it was determined that I was now (then) an Australian resident and so the application for a Service Pension could proceed.   As mentioned above my situation was slightly different though, so I could well be mistaken.   The pension rules are complex and it can be a daunting task to navigate through them without hitting some rocks.   Not sure what Centrelink is like but the staff at DVA are mostly friendly and willing to help.

[heybuz]

7.1.4 Requirements for Former Residents of Australia Receiving a Portable Pension

Summary - for Age, DSP, WP, WidB, BVA

A person arriving in or returning to Australia (1.1.A.320) must satisfy the Act's definition of Australian resident in order to lodge a proper claim for a pension. A former resident who returns to Australia and is granted a pension (Age, DSP, WP, WidB, BVA), or who transferred under SS(Admin)Act section 12 to Age CANNOT take that pension outside Australia if they leave again within 24 months after having again become an Australian resident. The purpose of this legislation is to discourage people from coming to Australia just to get an Australian pension to take back overseas.

Exception: The 24 month former resident waiting period does not apply if the person is eligible for financial assistance under the Medical Treatment Overseas Program in respect of their absence from Australia or needs to accompany such a person.

Act reference: SSAct section 7(2) An Australian resident…, section 43(1) Qualification for age pension, section 1220 No portability where claim based on short residence, section 1218D Extension of person's portability period - life - saving medical treatment overseas

SS(Admin)Act section 12 Deemed claim in certain cases

Family Assistance, Social Security And Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (2005 Budget And Other Measures) Bill 2006 - Explanatory Memorandum

Former residents & residents of external territories (1.1.E.230)

 

[adwbkk]

Well, heybuz, that is pretty clear.   And with the benefit of hindsight it clarifies for me the process that I went through.   It also suggests that they may stop paying me the service pension once they determine that I am again overseas as I did not stay for a full 2 years.   I think they will continue to pay the disability allowance though.

[heybuz]

59 minutes ago, adwbkk said:

Well, heybuz, that is pretty clear.   And with the benefit of hindsight it clarifies for me the process that I went through.   It also suggests that they may stop paying me the service pension once they determine that I am again overseas as I did not stay for a full 2 years.   I think they will continue to pay the disability allowance though.

Don't know about service pension, but I would not trust them. As you know as soon as you leave the country your logged whether you tell them or not through customs.

[ELVIS123456]

On 6/10/2018 at 6:34 PM, adwbkk said:

 

Hi ELVIS123456, you could well be correct and the 2 year waiting period may relate only to portability, however, it is my understanding that if you have not been resident in Australia for the 2 years prior to application then you are not eligible until you have been resident for that time period.   When I first made application it was rejected on the basis that I was living overseas and had not been resident for the last two years.   I appealed and it was determined that I was now (then) an Australian resident and so the application for a Service Pension could proceed.   As mentioned above my situation was slightly different though, so I could well be mistaken.   The pension rules are complex and it can be a daunting task to navigate through them without hitting some rocks.   Not sure what Centrelink is like but the staff at DVA are mostly friendly and willing to help.

What they probably did, was to declare you a non-resident on the basis that you still lived in Thailand and you had no intention to stay in Aust.  But after you appealed, they would have decided that you are a (Aust) resident, and then the service pension payment was OK'd.

 

The point you make is right - you must be both in Australia and a resident of Australia to get the pension.  You cant just go back and automatically get it after living overseas for years, and not doing enough to show CLink think you are not still living overseas.  You need all the usual 'proof' that you are now living in Aust - residence, licence, bank account, etc etc. - otherwise they can decide that you are still living overseas and do not intend to stay in Australia.  

 

Rumour has it that they will rule anyone with the slightest doubt as a non-resident and deny the age pension/service pension.  The logic (sic) is that anyone 'faking it' will then leave and go back overseas, and if anyone appeals they are obviously staying in Aust.  Maybe that is true - you are not the first returning resident to have difficulty get it approved the first time.

 

 

[adwbkk]

Yes, Elvis, it pretty much worked out as you say.   I had to establish a home in Oz and show that I was living there.   First a rejection because they said I was not a resident then a decision in my favour on appeal which came a full 10 months after the first submission.   A few weeks after that and the pension and amount of pension was decided.   While I did not have to stay in Oz the entire time, I had to spend "the majority" of my time there.   Which I interpreted as more than 50% in Oz which seemed to work out OK.

I now realise though, that I have probably not spent enough time there for portability and would have to return for more than a few months to ensure it became portable.   I am pondering that decision in LOS as the Australian winter passes by.

Do you have any idea what happens if they decide that one's pension is not portable?   Is it a simple matter of spending the required time there or do they make one jump through more hoops?

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, adwbkk said:

Yes, Elvis, it pretty much worked out as you say.   I had to establish a home in Oz and show that I was living there.   First a rejection because they said I was not a resident then a decision in my favour on appeal which came a full 10 months after the first submission.   A few weeks after that and the pension and amount of pension was decided.   While I did not have to stay in Oz the entire time, I had to spend "the majority" of my time there.   Which I interpreted as more than 50% in Oz which seemed to work out OK.

I now realise though, that I have probably not spent enough time there for portability and would have to return for more than a few months to ensure it became portable.   I am pondering that decision in LOS as the Australian winter passes by.

Do you have any idea what happens if they decide that one's pension is not portable?   Is it a simple matter of spending the required time there or do they make one jump through more hoops?

I would say that its pretty much impossible to get the pension made portable if you have been residing overseas prior to your application for the OAP.

 

Once you make your application in Australia and your application is approved, you MUST do the two (2) year jail term in Australia without leaving the country, from my understanding, now whether they will allow you to go for an overseas holiday or not, is unclear, and if they did approve it, it would be for a minimal period, like 2-4 weeks per year, otherwise they would stop your pension and the process would have to start all over again.

 

Once you have done the two (2) years, you can have your pension paid overseas.

 

The whole reason they made this rule was to stop us going back to get the pension and then take have it paid overseas, they want the money spent in Australia and its a numbers game, i.e. how many Xpats would throw their arms up in the air and say, "fark" that, I ain't doing two (2) years in the so called "Lucky Country", I reckon 50%

 

 

[adwbkk]

4MyEgo, I am not at all sure how a pension gets 'made' portable.   I guess there must be some sort of process. And certainly I did not spend enough time (about a year) in Oz to have made it portable.   Nonetheless, I will spend the Australian winter here and see what happens when I go back for a holiday.   You may well be right about the 2-4 weeks per year thing, but the way I read the document it seemed to say that one had to spend the 'majority' of ones time in Australia.   No firm time period was stated, I think.

As requested by DVA,  I am going to notify them that I am now overseas, which I realise they will already know, but I am going to follow the rules about notifying them about changes in my situation and see what happens.   Worst case I lose it - best case I only lose some, or none, or ??.   Either way I am sure there will be more hoops to jump through.

Lets see what happens.

 

[heybuz]

i don"t bother telling them anymore as soon as you put your passport through immigration they know.

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, adwbkk said:

4MyEgo, I am not at all sure how a pension gets 'made' portable.   I guess there must be some sort of process. And certainly I did not spend enough time (about a year) in Oz to have made it portable.   Nonetheless, I will spend the Australian winter here and see what happens when I go back for a holiday.   You may well be right about the 2-4 weeks per year thing, but the way I read the document it seemed to say that one had to spend the 'majority' of ones time in Australia.   No firm time period was stated, I think.

As requested by DVA,  I am going to notify them that I am now overseas, which I realise they will already know, but I am going to follow the rules about notifying them about changes in my situation and see what happens.   Worst case I lose it - best case I only lose some, or none, or ??.   Either way I am sure there will be more hoops to jump through.

Lets see what happens.

 

Good luck with it, I think you will find that they stopped paying your pension when you left, I am sorry to say.

 

That said portability is automatic once you have stayed for the 2 years, i.e. you tell them you are going overseas on an extended holiday, not sure when you will be back and you are just advising them, now they can keep paying you in your Ozzie account or you can tell them to pay it into a Thai account, but if you did that, they would have a fair idea your going to be staying there, me personally, would just have it paid into my Ozzie account and then I would transfer what I required every now and again.

 

Do keep us posted as to what they do or did to you when you find out. 

[ELVIS123456]

On 6/14/2018 at 7:49 PM, adwbkk said:

Yes, Elvis, it pretty much worked out as you say.   I had to establish a home in Oz and show that I was living there.   First a rejection because they said I was not a resident then a decision in my favour on appeal which came a full 10 months after the first submission.   A few weeks after that and the pension and amount of pension was decided.   While I did not have to stay in Oz the entire time, I had to spend "the majority" of my time there.   Which I interpreted as more than 50% in Oz which seemed to work out OK.

I now realise though, that I have probably not spent enough time there for portability and would have to return for more than a few months to ensure it became portable.   I am pondering that decision in LOS as the Australian winter passes by.

Do you have any idea what happens if they decide that one's pension is not portable?   Is it a simple matter of spending the required time there or do they make one jump through more hoops?

Mate, there is no easy answer to that question, but the way I would go about it is to leave it for a while and then call CLink and say you would like to go overseas for a while and ask them how long it would be OK to go for.  When you first get through to someone, ask for the person's name and an ID number for the call - that will ensure they get it right when answering your call.  Remember they are recording the call and anything you say can and may be used if/when you appeal any decision they make.  What I have sometimes done, is to call CLink on my phone using handsfree and record the conversation on my PC. If they question you using handsfree state that you have lots of documents that you need to check and that you are taking notes during the call.  Once you are talking and ask the question, let them suggest 'portability' to you - try not to straight out ask for it. While you are talking they have access to your file and any 'notes' made by previous operators and delegates - and you have no right to ask what is stated on your file (Dept records and locked away under privacy laws). You have to try and gently encourage them by asking about how long it would be Ok to stay there for - give lots of reasons that would appear real in your situation (that they already know about).  Once the subject gets around to that but it doesnt quite get there, then ask something like "and what is this term portability all about?"  "i have heard you can go for over 6 months if you are portable - am I portable?". 

 

If that all fails, and CLink has denied you 'portability', then you can appeal to SSAT and then to AAT.   There are two parts to the appeals process for Clink.  

The first part is that you have to appeal to the Social Security Appeals Tribunal (SSAT). This is where CLink reviews their own decision against their own rules and regulations.  

The second part is that you can then appeal to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT), who are independent from CLink and they will review the decision and the appeal, in terms of compliance with the Act and any other relevent laws and regulations. 

 

Before you appeal, you need to make sure you have a good story to base your appeal on. Things must have changed that you didnt anticipate, and whilst you did intend to stay in Australia forever, circumstances have changed now that you didnt anticipate and now you need to change your personal situation.  You need to take your time and thing long and hard - dont rush. You have to give your story and CLink then have the time (months) to slowly take your story apart bit by bit.  If you are consistent and dont change your story everty month, then you have the chance to get it done.  Because you were previously denied the pension, you need to be detailed and diligent and work out the basics of your story now, and keep notes and keep working on it and stay consitent.  You will raise a red flag the moment you mention portability (I hope you havent already), so you should leave it as long as you can take before making that call - well over the 2 years.  Too many blokes think they can just waltz into it, and many get away with it or are lucky, but there is always a few that didnt prepare enough and they get reemed.  It is worth the effort IMO - but there is an effort even for us that will breeze through the CLink feminazis (hopefully - but not guaranteed).

 

[heybuz]

i got all my c/l records under the disclosure of information,i also went through the aat but they just rubber stamped what c/l decided.the c/l rules contradict themselves one will say your right another will contradict the previous.

[ELVIS123456]

8 hours ago, heybuz said:

i got all my c/l records under the disclosure of information,i also went through the aat but they just rubber stamped what c/l decided.the c/l rules contradict themselves one will say your right another will contradict the previous.

You only get the 'official' records - not the notes put on the screen from previous calls/correspondence that the operators read while talking to you.

Yes their rules are contradictory and very open to interpretation - that is how they like it..

Sorry to hear you lost at AAT, but are you sure it was AAT and not SSAT that you had review the decision? Or have you tried both?

 

[heybuz]

thanks mate,thinking back now i believe your right some of the records were blanked or made unreadable and yes it was the AAT. i did win in the end but had to take more drastic measures.my brother in law a solicitor his advice was tell them nothing,honest people are penalised unfortunately and the problems caused on the whim of some of their agents must be devastating to some.

[ELVIS123456]

9 hours ago, heybuz said:

thanks mate,thinking back now i believe your right some of the records were blanked or made unreadable and yes it was the AAT. i did win in the end but had to take more drastic measures.my brother in law a solicitor his advice was tell them nothing,honest people are penalised unfortunately and the problems caused on the whim of some of their agents must be devastating to some.

Great advice and a warning to all - dont tell CLink etc. any more than you have to, and learn what you dont have to tell them.  Anything in your favour will be ignored and/or forgotten, but anything in their favour (to reject your application or reduce any payments) will be carved into marble and stored for all time.

 

[adwbkk]

Good advice from ELVIS. and Heybuz.   I also obtained my records under FOI and while they appeared to be complete, I wouldn't bet on it.

Last week I advised DVA that I was overseas together with a few other changes.   The DVA allows the customer to request that the call not be recorded, which I did, mainly on the basis that I might say something on this call that I contradict at some time in the future.  The operator indicated that they had not received notification of my travel which was a bit of a surprise.   Anyway, the last payment I received was on June 21 so nothing has changed up to now.   She advised that someone would be in touch.   I agree about not telling them any more that is necessary.   One must be aware though that it is a requirement under the act that one inform them of changes which may affect ones pension entitlements.   They can start proceedings to get back any overpayments.   It will be interesting to see what happens next, but either way I will plan to make a trip back in about 6 months.

[Russell17au]

 

If you receive your aged pension through your Australian bank you will pay their exchange rate which is a lot lower than the official exchange rate plus you will also pay extra bank fees both in Australia and also in Thailand. I have just been though a episode where my debit card was scanned and my Australian bank picked up a strange transaction so they froze my account, cutting it short it took 12 days for me to receive a new card so I was unable to access my pension so I had to open a Thai bank account and transfer money from Australia to my Thai bank account and again paying extra bank fees. I have now change my bank with CentreLink and my pension is being paid direct from the Reserve bank in Australia into my Thai bank account and it is paid at the official exchange rates and there are no bank fees from the reserve bank. The only thing is that if my pension is paid into an Australian bank it is paid every 2 weeks but if it is paid into a foreign bank it is paid every 4 weeks.

 

This is from Department of Human Services (CentreLink)

Can I get the Age Pension while living overseas?

Australia is an expensive country, so it's easy to see why many Australians reaching pension age or already receiving a pension may consider countries with cheaper living costs such as Thailand or Bali.

Once you receive the Age Pension in Australia, there is a two year waiting period before you can live overseas, though you can take holidays for up to six weeks at a time. If you were already in Australia and started receiving pension during this time, it is counted as part of the two years. The amount you'll receive depends on how long you'll stay overseas and how long you lived in Australia since being 16 years old.

Living overseas for greater than 26 weeks will see your pension reduced to an amount in proportion to the number of years you were an Australian resident once over the age of 16. If you've lived in Australia for greater than 25 years you'll receive the full amount.

If you've lived in Australia for less than 25 years you'll receive an amount in proportion to the years as a resident.

Remember too that countries like Austria, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, Greece, Italy and the USA have social security agreements which will in some cases continue your payments, so be sure to check on the Department of Human Services for more information regarding this.

[4MyEgo]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:38 PM, Russell17au said:

This is from Department of Human Services (CentreLink)

Can I get the Age Pension while living overseas?

Australia is an expensive country, so it's easy to see why many Australians reaching pension age or already receiving a pension may consider countries with cheaper living costs such as Thailand or Bali.

Once you receive the Age Pension in Australia, there is a two year waiting period before you can live overseas, though you can take holidays for up to six weeks at a time. If you were already in Australia and started receiving pension during this time, it is counted as part of the two years. The amount you'll receive depends on how long you'll stay overseas and how long you lived in Australia since being 16 years old.

Living overseas for greater than 26 weeks will see your pension reduced to an amount in proportion to the number of years you were an Australian resident once over the age of 16. If you've lived in Australia for greater than 25 years you'll receive the full amount.

If you've lived in Australia for less than 25 years you'll receive an amount in proportion to the years as a resident.

Remember too that countries like Austria, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, Greece, Italy and the USA have social security agreements which will in some cases continue your payments, so be sure to check on the Department of Human Services for more information regarding this.

I think you will find the 25 years went out the window, it is now 35 years, and as for up tp 6 weeks a year holiday, I think its at the discretion of Centrelink as to how much time they consider is reasonable, but someone can correct me on that.

[ELVIS123456]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:38 PM, Russell17au said:

 

Once you receive the Age Pension in Australia, there is a two year waiting period before you can live overseas, though you can take holidays for up to six weeks at a time. If you were already in Australia and started receiving pension during this time, it is counted as part of the two years. The amount you'll receive depends on how long you'll stay overseas and how long you lived in Australia since being 16 years old.

 

Living overseas for greater than 26 weeks will see your pension reduced to an amount in proportion to the number of years you were an Australian resident once over the age of 16. If you've lived in Australia for greater than 25 years you'll receive the full amount.

If you've lived in Australia for less than 25 years you'll receive an amount in proportion to the years as a resident.

Remember too that countries like Austria, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, Greece, Italy and the USA have social security agreements which will in some cases continue your payments, so be sure to check on the Department of Human Services for more information regarding this.

The two year waiting period (for portability) only applies to those Australians who were previously living overseas and returned to Australia and cliamed the pension.  If you are living in Australia when you claim the pension, (and have been for at least 2 years prior to claiming), you will get immediate portability of the pension.

 

As 4myego has pointed out, it is now 35 years (once you are 16) to receive the full pension when living overseas. If you lived for say 20 years, then you would get 20/35 of the full rate.