May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, Basil B said:

Who is doing the leaking???

 

Do not forget we have an election in 36 days.

 

Brussels trying to scare the British electorate to vote against the Tory's and a hard brexit or Tory's trying to get the electorate anti Europe and voting for Maggie May???

EU not pushing any vote in the forthcoming UK election. Calling the UK negotiating position deluded will push up the vote for Labour? No. Just putting down a marker for the post-election continuation of the negotiations. Mind you the current Thailand heat may have sent some imaginations into an overheated feverish condition so you never know what might be thrown into the blender next.

Edited May 3, 2017 by SheungWan

[kickstart]

How do we  know that we owe 100 billion  Euros, the  EU has not published /issued any accounts for the past 10  years plus .

 

If the EU was a PLC  it would have gone bust years ago .

 

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, kickstart said:

How do we  know that we owe 100 billion  Euros, the  EU has not published /issued any accounts for the past 10  years plus .

 

If the EU was a PLC  it would have gone bust years ago .

 

 

 

It's really nothing to worry about, Diane Abbott has done some number crunching and she said she can the figure down to £57 10s 6d.

[SheungWan]

13 minutes ago, kickstart said:

How do we  know that we owe 100 billion  Euros, the  EU has not published /issued any accounts for the past 10  years plus .

 

If the EU was a PLC  it would have gone bust years ago .

 

Myth peddled from the Brexit websites. Budget signed off every year since 2007. Try not to believe every bit of nonsense Boris comes out with. Another bit of junk to put alongside the Brexit Battle Bus NHS figments.

Edited May 3, 2017 by SheungWan

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree that the EU has "set out its stall", but think its the EU that is delusional with its ridiculous demands - not May who (so far) has only looked for a quick agreement on EU citizens in the UK/UK citizens in the EU rights.  Not to mention I've no doubt the EU will very quicly change its attitude when May (likely) increases her majority after the election!

 

Although admittedly, she also pointed out (quite rightly) that the EU 'wish list' was delusional and a non-starter from the UK point of view.

I think EU has gone with the Thai method: think of an absurd figure, and then double it!

[Flustered]

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Myth peddled from the Brexit websites. Budget signed off every year since 2007. Try not to believe every bit of nonsense Boris comes out with. Another bit of junk to put alongside the Brexit Battle Bus NHS figments.

You may want to read this.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

 

Not exactly a clean bill of health. Signing off the accounts is not the same as justifying them.

 

Every single year from 1994 there have been significant errors in the accounts.

[SheungWan]

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's really nothing to worry about, Diane Abbott has done some number crunching and she said she can the figure down to £57 10s 6d.

Diane Abbott would have been about age 18 when decimalisation came in. Even the eldest of old codgers (apart from maybe you?) don't think in old money.

Edited May 3, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

You may want to read this.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

 

Not exactly a clean bill of health. Signing off the accounts is not the same as justifying them.

 

Every single year from 1994 there have been significant errors in the accounts.

I was specifically replying to a post that said that accounts had not been submitted or published so lets first put that fake bit of info to bed first.

[Basil B]

39 minutes ago, kickstart said:

How do we  know that we owe 100 billion  Euros, the  EU has not published /issued any accounts for the past 10  years plus .

 

If the EU was a PLC  it would have gone bust years ago .

 

 

 

The real issue is for projects the EU has agreed to fund, as a member of the EU at the time those projects were agreed we should continue to contribute, and projects funded by the EU within the UK should continue to be funded by the EU.

 

It may be substantial but will also be spread over many years but every Euro needs to be justified. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Basil B

[Flustered]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

The real issue is for projects the EU has agreed to fund, as as a member of the EU at the time those projects were agreed wee should continue to contribute, and projects funded by the EU within the UK should continue to be funded by the EU.

 

It may be substantial but will also be spread over many years but every Euro needs to be justified. 

The only problem with this is that although we may have to pay for these projects, we will never see the fruits of our labours. As the EU will shut the door in our face we will never see a penny back from these "investments" so why pay into them?

 

What we should be doing is costing up how much we have paid in and will never see a return on.

 

Counter argument to those who say if you leave a club you have to pay your dues, is that if the club has committed to future projects and you are no longer a member, you are under no obligation to pay for these as being a non member you will not see any benefits from your payment.

 

As long as we pay our dues up to the point of leaving and cover our share of pensions (another EU rip off) we have no other moral or legal responsibility. The rest is all emotional blackmail.

[maxtwo]

The EU are behaving in just the way that made people vote to leave.

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

The only problem with this is that although we may have to pay for these projects, we will never see the fruits of our labours. As the EU will shut the door in our face we will never see a penny back from these "investments" so why pay into them?

 

What we should be doing is costing up how much we have paid in and will never see a return on.

 

Counter argument to those who say if you leave a club you have to pay your dues, is that if the club has committed to future projects and you are no longer a member, you are under no obligation to pay for these as being a non member you will not see any benefits from your payment.

 

As long as we pay our dues up to the point of leaving and cover our share of pensions (another EU rip off) we have no other moral or legal responsibility. The rest is all emotional blackmail.

 

We're committed to joint schemes up until 2021, the pension scheme being an exception. That's two years after we leave. We are currently paying 8.6 billion Sterling per year nett. It takes some rather creative accounting to bump this up to 42 billion per year for our last two years commitments to the joint schemes. Ok, the pension funds continue thereafter, and need to be negotiated. But whatevever the EU wants per annum for free trade in those two years after we leave needs to be allowed for in the total bill. And we are not going to walk away from our share of the real estate, despite the EU's arrogant assumption that it can steal this from us. The EU isn't in a different galaxy: it's in cloud cuckoo land. And it's demands are proof that it will be insolvent when the UK leaves (unless, of course, it's master bails it out).

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, maxtwo said:

The EU are behaving in just the way that made people vote to leave.

Its like listening to the sour faces on Soi Buakaow justifying why they got a divorce.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

4 hours ago, maxtwo said:

The EU are behaving in just the way that made people vote to leave.

Its like listening to the sour faces on Soi Buakaow justifying why they got a divorce.

 

Which, in turn, is nowhere near as painful on the eardrums as listening to the utterly unreasonable, money-grabbing psycho bitch that they divorced .

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Its like listening to the sour faces on Soi Buakaow justifying why they got a divorce.

 

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Which, in turn, is nowhere near as painful on the eardrums as listening to the utterly unreasonable, money-grabbing psycho bitch that they divorced .

 

Its not every day one scores a hole in one.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

Its not every day one scores a hole in one.

 

Typical remainer. Switches the debate like a card cheat switching cards .

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"The EU appears to consider itself as some form of club where one of the members has chosen to leave. It would not be unreasonable for any club to expect 'assets' belonging to the club to be returned or that the good name of the club not be brought into disrepute."

 

Can't argue against this (if I understand correctly), but in the same vein a leaving member who had paid towards the club's assets would expect to receive fair compensation for those assets when they leave.

I seen a guy on the BBC news last night, don't know who he was but a European and appeared very well informed on the subject. I only caught the tail end but the jist was that the 100 billion figure was the current estimate on the UK debt. He went on to say that the UK would also be reimbursed over certain payments. When pressed for a figure on the reimbursement he was very reluctant saying that it was yet to be determined as they had just started to go through the accounts but in the end ventured a figure of 50 to 70 billion. The presenter immediately said that means we should only pay around 30 billion and again he pointed out that the 100 figure was just the current estimate and could possibly go higher. When pushed he put a personal estimate on the final figure being between 25 and 40 billion.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, maxtwo said:

The EU are behaving in just the way that made people vote to leave.

And Teresa May is behaving like a spoiled child. Two wrongs will never make a right and this is getting further each day from going in the right direction.

Try and remember who will pay the penalty when it all goes wrong.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

We're committed to joint schemes up until 2021, the pension scheme being an exception. That's two years after we leave. We are currently paying 8.6 billion Sterling per year nett. It takes some rather creative accounting to bump this up to 42 billion per year for our last two years commitments to the joint schemes. Ok, the pension funds continue thereafter, and need to be negotiated. But whatevever the EU wants per annum for free trade in those two years after we leave needs to be allowed for in the total bill. And we are not going to walk away from our share of the real estate, despite the EU's arrogant assumption that it can steal this from us. The EU isn't in a different galaxy: it's in cloud cuckoo land. And it's demands are proof that it will be insolvent when the UK leaves (unless, of course, it's master bails it out).

There is a concerted effort to hype up the debt figure to put the EU in a bad light. Nobody ever wants to mention any reimbursement to the UK, not do anything for the 'cause'.

It is very unlikely that we will ever know the true figures for either, and when a final figure significantly lower than the debt estimate is announced, TM will be seen as having won the day, well that's the plan. Keep the information suppressed and no one will ever know.

[shanesox]

And Teresa May is behaving like a spoiled child. Two wrongs will never make a right and this is getting further each day from going in the right direction.
Try and remember who will pay the penalty when it all goes wrong.

Haha dream on! May is telling the arrogant EU bureaucrats! " don't threaten us and you know what we can walk away from your club anytime we want , now go and find another country's money to waste"!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Naam]

10 hours ago, Flustered said:

Counter argument to those who say if you leave a club you have to pay your dues, is that if the club has committed to future projects and you are no longer a member, you are under no obligation to pay for these as being a non member you will not see any benefits from your payment.

wrong! 2000 year old basic law Roman Empire "pacta sunt servanda!" (agreements must be kept!), id est no bailing out without honouring all commitments even if there are no future benefits to expect.

[Naam]

Quote

Khun Han said:

 

Which, in turn, is nowhere near as painful on the eardrums as listening to the utterly unreasonable, money-grabbing psycho bitch that they divorced .

utmost cheap and ridiculous argument. you can do better.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, shanesox said:

Haha dream on! May is telling the arrogant EU bureaucrats! " don't threaten us and you know what we can walk away from your club anytime we want , now go and find another country's money to waste"!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I take it you would walk off the job and then ask for a reference.

Whether you like it or not the UK will continue to deal with the EU in the future.

[harrry]

My reading is that the UK gives 2 years notice of leaving. (In this case there was really nearly three informally given.  Just as in leaving a rental contract pay continues for this two years then stops.  It is up to the EU, just like a  condo owner to find a new sucker or adjust to his new income.  (If the EU had not tried to become EU Uber Alles by taking in its new members maybe things would not have come to this.  A condo owner who starts putting noisy tenants in in surrounding apartments is only precipitating people leaving.

Edited May 4, 2017 by harrry

[pitrevie]

38 minutes ago, Naam said:

utmost cheap and ridiculous argument. you can do better.

Sadly I don't think so this is a guy who tries to adopt a superior moral attitude to others on this forum regarding name calling and then that comes out and not for the first time.

[shanesox]

I take it you would walk off the job and then ask for a reference.

Whether you like it or not the UK will continue to deal with the EU in the future.

Clearly you can't read! "Doing business" and being told what you have to pay or owe when you don't belong to a club aren't the same !

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

And Teresa May is behaving like a spoiled child. Two wrongs will never make a right and this is getting further each day from going in the right direction.

Try and remember who will pay the penalty when it all goes wrong.

How is May behaving like a spoiled child?

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

There is a concerted effort to hype up the debt figure to put the EU in a bad light. Nobody ever wants to mention any reimbursement to the UK, not do anything for the 'cause'.

It is very unlikely that we will ever know the true figures for either, and when a final figure significantly lower than the debt estimate is announced, TM will be seen as having won the day, well that's the plan. Keep the information suppressed and no one will ever know.

Its the EU that keeps going on about how much the UK must pay to leave, and they never mention any reimbursement to the UK offsetting these (made up) figures....

 

You're probably right that when the final figure is far lower, May will be seen as having won the day - but that's entirely the EU's fault for coming up with these outlandish figures in the first place! 

[mommysboy]

Bad negotiating tactics by UK though in my honest opinion.  We come across as so needing a trade deal that EU feels it has a whip hand all round.  We have also dropped a real clanger by not including our security commitments to Europe.  Who on earth wants to be shafted and then spend billions looking after the people that did it?

 

Of course there some very bad effects for UK.  These have been done to a death.  But no one has made anything of the effects on the EU: compromised trade flows especially for Germany and Holland, a very big economic hit on Ireland, destabilisation in the EU financial markets as it loses access to it's main funding market, and the defence issues.  The truth is whilst this is a very bad situation for UK it is arguably worse for the very sclerotic and far from unified EU.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, harrry said:

My reading is that the UK gives 2 years notice of leaving. (In this case there was really nearly three informally given.  Just as in leaving a rental contract pay continues for this two years then stops.  It is up to the EU, just like a  condo owner to find a new sucker or adjust to his new income.  (If the EU had not tried to become EU Uber Alles by taking in its new members maybe things would not have come to this.  A condo owner who starts putting noisy tenants in in surrounding apartments is only precipitating people leaving.

"Just as in leaving a rental contract pay continues for this two years then stops."

 

I don't understand this part of your post - but think it means 'the contract says 2 years notice is required, and this has been given - as per the contract terms.'?