May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

'theway.co.uk' : 'Hear God speak to you every day through our early morning emails'. 

Yes you can't respond to those articles and there are many more. So come on where are all those conspiracies you mentioned. You are embarrassing yourself, not for the first time.

BTW that was an extract from the daily mirror one of your papers isn't it!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Laughing Gravy

[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

'theway.co.uk' : 'Hear God speak to you every day through our early morning emails'. 

 

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes you can't respond to those articles and there are many more. So come on where are all those conspiracies you mentioned. You are embarrassing yourself, not for the first time.

BTW that was an extract from the daily mirror one of your papers isn't it!

https://www.theway.co.uk/faith/gods-word

 

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Mmmmm. Grouse in gravy.  With baked potatoes and peas, but definitely no Brussels sprouts.

I would recommend caponizing older cock fowl before stuffing and roasting.

[Jip99]

54 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

No sale. The usual Hard Brexiteer Conspiracy Theory nonsense blaming everybody and everything for Brexit. And as I so accurately pointed out their endless playing the victim card. Not our fault guv! A favourite song! Brittle and sour.

 

 

The only sourness I see is from the losing side.

 

That was yours, by the way.

 

 

[Scott]

A post containing a slur has been removed.  

 

[aright]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

In fact, the glaringly obvious solution is to remain in the EU until the end of 2021.

 

I am in favour of maximising degrees of freedom as long as possible.

The British Government's desire to spread out the leaving process over a few years has given the EU the opportunity it wanted. That is to inflict maximum pain/punishment before we leave. This will send a signal to other member states that the leaving process will be as humiliating as possible,

"Maximising degrees of freedom" lacks cadence when referring to the EU, a point I tried to make in post 13473. I am for no more humiliation or punishment .

No more nannying, I am for freedom of opportunity which we must grasp. So for me its out and out now

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The only sourness I see is from the losing side.

 

That was yours, by the way.

 

 

That's why there a constant refrain from Brexiters that if Brexit turns out badly it will be because of sabotage by remainers. Because if there's one thing Brexiters are about, it's accepting responsibility for success and for failure assigning it elsewhere.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

it isn't about that it is about punishing the UK and like school ground bullies ensuring nobody dares ask for another referendum. The EU wants us to keep paying and telling the UK what to do, like it does with the rest of the countries trapped into it. If the EU was such a great, democratic, transparent organization they would let anyone leave. Clearly they are not. Pay them nothing, charge the EU for our fish, start feeding ourselves like we use to, trade with the rest of the world and wish the EU all the success. I personally feel that more countries will start opting out soon.

"If the EU was such a great, democratic, transparent organization they would let anyone leave." - You mean like the English UK union.

 

You obviously not in favour of the EU, and that is fair enough, but do not make a big song and dance around issues that exist elsewhere. Nobody has ever said the EU was perfect, but a good bit in front of the bunch trying to run the UK.

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"If the EU was such a great, democratic, transparent organization they would let anyone leave." - You mean like the English UK union.

 

You obviously not in favour of the EU, and that is fair enough, but do not make a big song and dance around issues that exist elsewhere. Nobody has ever said the EU was perfect, but a good bit in front of the bunch trying to run the UK.

All my life I have been extremely critical for the EU.

Therefore it annoys me that the extreme nonsense posted by the brexiteers now makes me defend the EU!

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The only sourness I see is from the losing side.

 

That was yours, by the way.

 

 

The whole of the UK is on the losing side. Unfortunately it is a sad fact of life that many are, and many always will be, completely unaware of what has been lost.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

All my life I have been extremely critical for the EU.

Therefore it annoys me that the extreme nonsense posted by the brexiteers now makes me defend the EU!

Agreed - for so many Brexiteers, they talk only of binary choices; babies and bathwater springs to mind. 

[sandyf]

8 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

All my life I have been extremely critical for the EU.

Therefore it annoys me that the extreme nonsense posted by the brexiteers now makes me defend the EU!

Quite a valid point of view. Over the years they have come up with some ridiculous proposals that have pushed the good stuff into the background and there can be no dispute that the organisation is top heavy. I think there is little doubt the EU will change for the better and it would have been better to be part of the change rather than out in the cold.

 

Sometimes I let the news run on and see some of PMQs, nothing short of a children's playground, and some seem to think they will lead them to a better future.

Of course some will say that is the way it was before going into Europe, but they don't want to remember how many times a state of emergency was declared in the early seventies. It is a fact of life that left to there own devices, the UK government make one bad decision after another, which ever party is in power they cannot see past the next general election.

[sandyf]

In April 2016 Teresa May gave a speech indicating she was in no doubt whatsoever that remaining in the EU was the best course of action.

In the service we used to have an assessment term, "Three 3s  and easily led"

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leaked-impact-assessment-economy-gdp-north-east-west-midlands-a8199746.html?S2ref=1532332

 

[aright]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

 think there is little doubt the EU will change for the better and it would have been better to be part of the change rather than out in the cold.

 

 

This is so obviously true, you can see it happening already. Yesterday Mrs Merkel formed a coalition with the SPD. The SPD only have 153 seats in a Parliament of 709 seats. They only got 20% of the popular vote. To keep herself in power she was forced to give them the key Ministries of Finance and Labour which means they are now controlled by members of  a party who only represent 20% of the voters. Can you see where this is going?

So far we have received no comments from the Remainers about  Mrs Merkels left, right shambles of a coalition when they were so vociferous about Mrs Mays coalition.

[rockingrobin]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

This is so obviously true, you can see it happening already. Yesterday Mrs Merkel formed a coalition with the SPD. The SPD only have 153 seats in a Parliament of 709 seats. They only got 20% of the popular vote. To keep herself in power she was forced to give them the key Ministries of Finance and Labour which means they are now controlled by members of  a party who only represent 20% of the voters. Can you see where this is going?

So far we have received no comments from the Remainers about  Mrs Merkels left, right shambles of a coalition when they were so vociferous about Mrs Mays coalition.

Conservatives and 2010 come to mind

[aright]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Conservatives and 2010 come to mind

Can you help me and draw the analogy

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

This is so obviously true, you can see it happening already. Yesterday Mrs Merkel formed a coalition with the SPD. The SPD only have 153 seats in a Parliament of 709 seats. They only got 20% of the popular vote. To keep herself in power she was forced to give them the key Ministries of Finance and Labour which means they are now controlled by members of  a party who only represent 20% of the voters. Can you see where this is going?

So far we have received no comments from the Remainers about  Mrs Merkels left, right shambles of a coalition when they were so vociferous about Mrs Mays coalition.

ANd what does the composition of the not yet ratified German coalition have to do with Brexit? The UK is leaving the EU, not Germany. It's negotiating with the EU not with Germany despite the nonsense spouted by Brexiters about the EU being controlled by Germany. We've seen how incompetent the UK has been in negotiations so far. What has this got to with the competence or incompetence of an incoming german coalition.

[baansgr]

16 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The know-nothing crowd really do know nothing. Leaving the EU begs the question not only about interim arrangements but also the trading relationship post-Brexit. But no, the know-nothings are not interested, well not further than their bright, shiny, new blue passport. And that's about the limit of how much detail they can handle.

Another dig at people's intelligence just because of  their views rather than constructive posting. Nobody can predict what any future trade deal will be but Im sure most European manufacturers will push for something that is beneficial to both, lets face it, the opportunities are endless for the UK. Brext is happening, why not embrace the future with vigor rather than harking back to the past 40 years, it makes sense you know deep down it does. 

[aright]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

ANd what does the composition of the not yet ratified German coalition have to do with Brexit? The UK is leaving the EU, not Germany. It's negotiating with the EU not with Germany despite the nonsense spouted by Brexiters about the EU being controlled by Germany. We've seen how incompetent the UK has been in negotiations so far. What has this got to with the competence or incompetence of an incoming german coalition.

I was responding to a statement someone made about how the EU will get better. Stop being petty and attempting to be in control. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by aright

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

I was responding to a statement someone made about how the EU will get better. Stop being petty and attempting to be in control. 

 

My mistake.

[baansgr]

38 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite a valid point of view. Over the years they have come up with some ridiculous proposals that have pushed the good stuff into the background and there can be no dispute that the organisation is top heavy. I think there is little doubt the EU will change for the better and it would have been better to be part of the change rather than out in the cold.

 

Sometimes I let the news run on and see some of PMQs, nothing short of a children's playground, and some seem to think they will lead them to a better future.

Of course some will say that is the way it was before going into Europe, but they don't want to remember how many times a state of emergency was declared in the early seventies. It is a fact of life that left to there own devices, the UK government make one bad decision after another, which ever party is in power they cannot see past the next general election.

State of emergency for what.... I know the reasons and in or out of Europe would not have made a difference. 

[rockingrobin]

13 minutes ago, aright said:

Can you help me and draw the analogy

The analogy arrives from your argument about the SPD coalition and the issue of having to give positions to a party receiving 20% of the popular vote.

 

In 2010 the Libdem only achieved 57 seats and 23 % of the vote, but the conservatives in order to form a coalition had to give them 5 cabinet positions.

[oldhippy]

21 minutes ago, aright said:

This is so obviously true, you can see it happening already. Yesterday Mrs Merkel formed a coalition with the SPD. The SPD only have 153 seats in a Parliament of 709 seats. They only got 20% of the popular vote. To keep herself in power she was forced to give them the key Ministries of Finance and Labour which means they are now controlled by members of  a party who only represent 20% of the voters. Can you see where this is going?

So far we have received no comments from the Remainers about  Mrs Merkels left, right shambles of a coalition when they were so vociferous about Mrs Mays coalition.

Thank you for your interesting views on the German coalition government.

 

Now, please enlighten us with your views on the UK coalition government, you know the coalition of conservatives with religious fundamentalists.

 

Personally I prefer a 20% mainstream party over a handfull of extremists.

And you?

 

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

That's why there a constant refrain from Brexiters that if Brexit turns out badly it will be because of sabotage by remainers. Because if there's one thing Brexiters are about, it's accepting responsibility for success and for failure assigning it elsewhere.

 

 

A jaundiced view - and certainly not mine.

 

Brexit will be Brexit; success or failure is not relevant.  The shape of it may be determined by people who are incapable of delivering what people expect Brexit to look like - but that is much to do with the fact that there could be  17.4m different perceptions of that shape because no one was able to provide a definitive form. The fact is that the voting options were (1) Stay in the EU or (2) Brexit, whatever shape that may be (because we politicians haven't got a clue what Brexit will actually look like).

[baansgr]

18 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

A jaundiced view - and certainly not mine.

 

Brexit will be Brexit; success or failure is not relevant.  The shape of it may be determined by people who are incapable of delivering what people expect Brexit to look like - but that is much to do with the fact that there could be  17.4m different perceptions of that shape because no one was able to provide a definitive form. The fact is that the voting options were (1) Stay in the EU or (2) Brexit, whatever shape that may be (because we politicians haven't got a clue what Brexit will actually look like).

Or 3...stay in the EU and not have a clue what the future held... Well apart from more cuckoldery

[Jip99]

18 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Or 3...stay in the EU and not have a clue what the future held... Well apart from more cuckoldery

 

 

Indeed.

 

What we DIDN'T want was clear to most people....... and I am pretty certain that a future in the EU would not be brighter.

[aright]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The analogy arrives from your argument about the SPD coalition and the issue of having to give positions to a party receiving 20% of the popular vote.

 

In 2010 the Libdem only achieved 57 seats and 23 % of the vote, but the conservatives in order to form a coalition had to give them 5 cabinet positions.

My contention was she gave away the two large key Ministries of Finance and Labour . I don't think you can equate these Departments with the lower profile Posts of Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Energy and Climate, Business Innovation and Skills, Dep PM and Scotland.

Of course their has been no reporting yet of the total package she gave away. Maybe there is more to come.

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite a valid point of view. Over the years they have come up with some ridiculous proposals that have pushed the good stuff into the background and there can be no dispute that the organisation is top heavy. I think there is little doubt the EU will change for the better and it would have been better to be part of the change rather than out in the cold.

 

Sometimes I let the news run on and see some of PMQs, nothing short of a children's playground, and some seem to think they will lead them to a better future.

Of course some will say that is the way it was before going into Europe, but they don't want to remember how many times a state of emergency was declared in the early seventies. It is a fact of life that left to there own devices, the UK government make one bad decision after another, which ever party is in power they cannot see past the next general election.

 

To your first paragraph IMHO the EU will never change as the people who run it want more and more power for theselves and have no reason to want change.

 

Yes I CAN remember the UK before we joined the EEC and you are correct about the state of emergency was declared many times.

 

This was when the old Labour party was running the UK and the union block votes were running the old Labour party under Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan.

 

I can remember the dustmans strike, miners strikes, British Leyland strikes when finished off large British companies in the car industry. I remember when dead people were not buried or cremated. I can remember when the newspapers were out on strike due to Rupert Murdoch wanting to introduce new technology. All of those strikes and more were called by the labour unions.

 

Those unions were in effact running the UK, not the politicians who poeple had voted for.

 

The two biggest troublemakers were Arthur Scargill from the NUM

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10573570/The-rise-and-fall-of-Arthur-Scargill.html

 

and "Red Robbo" aka Derek Robinson who was a shop steward at I think Longbridge.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-41834559

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-41820070

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/wapping-dispute-30-years-on-how-rupert-murdoch-changed-labour-relations-and-newspapers-forever-a6826316.html

 

Between the two of them IMHO they were responsible for the loss of hundreds of thousands of direct and indirect (think of suppliers, shops etc).

 

The saddest thing for the country was that they believed that they were "protecting" jobs for the workers and that they were doing the right thing.

 

[rockingrobin]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

My contention was she gave away the two large key Ministries of Finance and Labour . I don't think you can equate these Departments with the lower profile Posts of Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Energy and Climate, Business Innovation and Skills, Dep PM and Scotland.

Of course their has been no reporting yet of the total package she gave away. Maybe there is more to come.

 

 

If we are playing top trumps how about deputy prime minister

[aright]

6 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

If we are playing top trumps how about deputy prime minister

What? Big responsibilities like filling in at PMQ's and opening fetes and hospitals.