May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into.

 

" A second legal challenge is set to further complicate the already labyrinthine Brexit process – and this time, the obscure clause of European law on everyone's lips is Article 127. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-127-what-is-brexit-legal-challenge-single-market-eu-theresa-may-latest-a7443216.html

[sandyf]

Who still thinks that NI politics and brexit are not related. TM calls for unity in one breath and advocates division in the next.

 

" If a new government returned to Stormont after fresh elections will not engage with power-sharing, the prospect would be raised of Northern Ireland being run directly from London. However, the main nationalist opposition group, Social Democratic and Labour Party, has said they would not accept British rule as they feel Theresa May’s government no longer has any legitimacy after Brexit. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-stormont-crisis-power-sharing-collapse-rhi-cash-for-ash-martin-mcguinness-arlene-a7530431.html

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, jpinx said:

How is that a "separate issue" ??  It's the mess that is the EU that is not getting reformed and has driven UK out

Nothing to do with the point in question. As usual you found it easier to sidestep the issue.

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Nothing to do with the point in question. As usual you found it easier to sidestep the issue.

Will this do?....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/949892-may-ready-for-tough-talks-over-brexit/?do=findComment&comment=11529242

 

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, jpinx said:

You think the EU debt is under control?  We've been through the lies and deceits that the EU have spun on us since the Common Market was formed, and it has *never* got better. 

Do not quote me if you want to change the subject.

[jpinx]

deleted

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by jpinx

[gennisis]

To my mind the theory of a 'complete exit from the EU" makes sense.

When done its for the EU to make proposals for future trading,.....that is quite different from  the UK begging for exemptions from the present EU rules.

Once the reality of the changed positions strikes home in the EU,then we may see a different approach from them.

If they do not wish for any trade with the UK,then OK.But if they do wish for future trade it must be on conditions acceptable  to the UK

The questions of  free movement will no longer apply,the UK would simply be a trading partner for goods and services.

The banking and financial agreements would come from mutual interests,not from  decrees from Brussels

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Theresa May will make a key Brexit speech today. It is looking "hard". Expect the £ to stay low in the short term. I think the market pessimism has already been priced in the forex market.

 

I think and hope May say's we will start negotiations with clean break on the table, most things will be up for negotiation, everyone but a dimwit knows Europe still wants and needs to trade with the UK...

 

Whether she revels her shopping list, I do not know, I hope not as the EU has not revelled theirs, (You show me yours and I will show you mine, ).

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into.

 

" A second legal challenge is set to further complicate the already labyrinthine Brexit process – and this time, the obscure clause of European law on everyone's lips is Article 127. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-127-what-is-brexit-legal-challenge-single-market-eu-theresa-may-latest-a7443216.html

"Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into."

 

Have either brexiteers or remainers claimed to be "fully informed"?  As far as I can make out a major gripe on both sides was that it was impossible to be informed as only self-serving propaganda was available?

[sandyf]

56 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into."

 

Have either brexiteers or remainers claimed to be "fully informed"?  As far as I can make out a major gripe on both sides was that it was impossible to be informed as only self-serving propaganda was available?

There is no disputing your last sentence and on reflection "fully informed" was probably a poor choice of words.

Following the referendum several voices claimed the leave voters knew exactly what they were doing when they voted.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 hours ago, gennisis said:

To my mind the theory of a 'complete exit from the EU" makes sense.

When done its for the EU to make proposals for future trading,.....that is quite different from  the UK begging for exemptions from the present EU rules.

Once the reality of the changed positions strikes home in the EU,then we may see a different approach from them.

If they do not wish for any trade with the UK,then OK.But if they do wish for future trade it must be on conditions acceptable  to the UK

The questions of  free movement will no longer apply,the UK would simply be a trading partner for goods and services.

The banking and financial agreements would come from mutual interests,not from  decrees from Brussels

 

You cannot have a full and free movement of goods and services without free movement of labour since labour is .... well... a service.    

 

I do believe it is becoming evident that the Brexit will be a hard brexit and as such there will have to be adjustments....  but I think you are being naive that you can have a hard exit.... then turn around and wait for Europe to make proposals in the future and it not having major impacts in banking and finance.  A hard Brexit (without some sort of interim agreement) will mean a loss of passporting, and once that becomes a fact financial institutions will have to make changes.  Up until now it has for the most part been a wait and see.... but once it becomes fact you will likely see a significant migration ... a closing down of financial services that are not domestic and a movement of those operations to mainland Europe.  Once they are gone, they are not coming back.... London as the major financial capital within Europe will fade into the past following the disillusionment of the Empire into the history books.  It really will be the last chapter of the end of the glory from the old Empire days. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:04 PM, SheungWan said:

 

Post-Brexit Britain chit-chat has gone through the European role models which it is supposedly going to follow: Norway and Switzerland the two mostly mentioned but jettisoned once the detail exposed. So now the latest one seized upon is not European at all. No, its not Vietnam. As mentioned on Bloomberg TV, step forward Singapore. That should entertain the anti-globalist wing of the Hard Brexiteers.

 

According to some post-TM speech comments, the model set out by the TM amounts to a Canada Plus model. So that's alright yes? Well should be but maybe a split in the hard brexiteers as TM flags a globalist future. Don't forget that the only real threat to TM is not the melted down Labour Party but the hard right of the Tory Party and associated Tory Press. Will be interesting to see how the forum hard brexiteers respond to this one.

Edited January 17, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

Do you remember all those hard brexiteer forum contributions saying that the movement of sterling signaled nothing very much?

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Do you remember all those hard brexiteer forum contributions saying that the movement of sterling signaled nothing very much?

 

 

 

I am sure they are still saying the movement in the GBP is temporary....  I wonder how many are feeling the pinch....

 

 

[SheungWan]

22 hours ago, jpinx said:

The FTSE 250 - representing 50% UK business - has risen since july/august 2016, so That means UK business is down the pan? 

For every statistical proof there can always be found a disproof within the same statistics. The reality is that the FTSE and the FX rates are going where the self-interest of the traders push them.  Remember the libor fiasco?  That mentality is endemic and is part of the economy, but it must be recognised for what it does.

 

Our forum brexiteers just can't get things right, but never mind we're here to help them. The FTSE 250 does not represent 50% of UK business. Please concentrate. 50% of overall income from the FTSE 250 companies is UK based and 50% is from overseas income. OK, got that? Right. Now, moving on..... The FTSE 250 companies, which represent the mid-caps not covered by the FTSE 100 (size by capitalisation), represent a mere approximate 15% of the FTSE 100 index, so is not 50% of UK business. If still having trouble understanding these figures then a little more gnashing of teeth about grasping statistics is way to go.

Edited January 17, 2017 by SheungWan

[Orac]

 
I am sure they are still saying the movement in the GBP is temporary....  I wonder how many are feeling the pinch....
 
 

Sooner rather than later people are going to start understanding how the exchange rate does effect everybody and not just those oveseas who take an immediate hit when they convert money. The inflationary effect lags moves in an exchange rate by several months and will be delayed by retailers as stock ordered at cheaper rates prior to the drop is used up and they don't want to change pricing too drastically if the drop is only temporary.

http://news.sky.com/story/apple-raises-app-store-prices-by-up-to-25-amid-weaker-sterling-10732208?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Our forum brexiteers just can't get things right, but never mind we're here to help them. The FTSE 250 does not represent 50% of UK business. Please concentrate. 50% of overall income from the FTSE 250 companies is UK based and 50% is from overseas income. OK, got that? Right. Now, moving on..... The FTSE 250 companies, which represent the mid-caps not covered by the FTSE 100 (size by capitalisation), represent a mere approximate 15% of the FTSE 100 index, so is not 50% of UK business. If still having trouble understanding these figures then a little more gnashing of teeth about grasping statistics is way to go.

It is clear to anyone who thinks of the glass as being 50% full, that the 50% on the uk income is doing very nicely , thank you :)  The $/£ has sat a smidgens below 124 ever since the speech, up from about 120, so what do you learn from that?  What contorted statistical nonsense can the remainers come up with to explain this ? 

[Boon Mee]

I thought her speech last night was good but too long.

[jpinx]

Keep up with the conversation here....

Edited January 18, 2017 by jpinx

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

I thought her speech last night was good but too long.

Good!!  She claims the strength of the UK lies in the strength of the union, obviously tone deaf.

 

[RuamRudy]

23 hours ago, sandyf said:

Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into.

 

Fully informed? Even UKIP MEPs don't understand the basics of that which they profess to hate so much! No surprise, however, that the porn baron's comic / Brexiteers' bible made such a howler.

 

Express and UKIP MEP call for UK to ‘end Schengen’ EU movement – though we’ve never been part of it

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Fully informed? Even UKIP MEPs don't understand the basics of that which they profess to hate so much! No surprise, however, that the porn baron's comic / Brexiteers' bible made such a howler.

 

Express and UKIP MEP call for UK to ‘end Schengen’ EU movement – though we’ve never been part of it

This is how one article put it today. Fact of the matter is she is pursuing a personal agenda based on the result of a vote that was fundamentally flawed.

 

" Yet when the Prime Minister said that the people who voted for Brexit “did so with their eyes open”, she told a monumental lie of monumental personal significance. "

" Literally, May was quite the George Washington. But assuming she meant it metaphorically, she was every inch the Donald Trump. As she very well knows, most people who voted for Brexit did so in the pitch dark, because the implications of leaving the EU were wholly obscured. They were pretty nebulous until today, actually, but on the 23rd of June they were unknown and unknowable.  "

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-brexit-speech-british-public-vote-europe-remain-leave-eyes-open-a7531746.html

[SheungWan]

12 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Our forum brexiteers just can't get things right, but never mind we're here to help them. The FTSE 250 does not represent 50% of UK business. Please concentrate. 50% of overall income from the FTSE 250 companies is UK based and 50% is from overseas income. OK, got that? Right. Now, moving on..... The FTSE 250 companies, which represent the mid-caps not covered by the FTSE 100 (size by capitalisation), represent a mere approximate 15% of the FTSE 100 index, so is not 50% of UK business. If still having trouble understanding these figures then a little more gnashing of teeth about grasping statistics is way to go.

 

10 hours ago, jpinx said:

It is clear to anyone who thinks of the glass as being 50% full, that the 50% on the uk income is doing very nicely , thank you :)  The $/£ has sat a smidgens below 124 ever since the speech, up from about 120, so what do you learn from that?  What contorted statistical nonsense can the remainers come up with to explain this ? 

 

It is rather unfortunate that some people still cannot do basic maths and repeats the earlier error of talking about '50% on the UK income' and glasses half full meaningless figures. So let's do some indexation happy campers to help our unfortunate brexiteers. Please bear with me.... We have two sets of information:

First set is that the ratio in capitalization size between FTSE 100 and the FTSE 250 is 100:15. The second set of information re UK/overseas income is 20/80 for the FTSE 100 and 50/50 for the FTSE 250.

OK, now if we index the FTSE 100 capitalisation at 100, then the FTSE 250 is 15 and our total capitalization is 115. Hold that thought.

So, UK income percentage of the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 combined would be (0.2*100/115)+(0.5*15/115) = 17.4 + 6.5 = ~ 24%

So, overseas income percentage of the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 combined would be (0.8*100/115)+(0.5*15/115) = 70 + 6.5 = 76.5%

(total figure 100.5 due to rounding)

Result? On capitalisation, the percentage of income generated within the UK from FTSE 100 +250 companies is less than 25% of the total and that makes overseas income three times as large.

Conclusion? Some brexiteers just can't count and worse still insist on repeating their misunderstandings. Are we surprised?

[SheungWan]

Supreme Court vote decision scheduled for January 24. So, one week to go before we have a new list of Enemies Of The People.

[nontabury]

On January 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, sandyf said:

Brexiteers claimed they were fully informed when they took the decision to leave. They, like every one else, were completely unaware of the legal minefield they decided to march into.

 

" A second legal challenge is set to further complicate the already labyrinthine Brexit process – and this time, the obscure clause of European law on everyone's lips is Article 127. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/article-127-what-is-brexit-legal-challenge-single-market-eu-theresa-may-latest-a7443216.html

 

 Am I the only one who is sick of the Remoaners harping on about those uneducated voters who cast their democratic vote for Britexit. Yet forgetting to mention that the majority of university US white voters voted for D.T.

Combine this with their continues talk of only the older people ( with their life experiance) voted for Britexit, while they, the selfish younger generation voted to remain. It would seem that the only thing the Remoaners have achieved is to cause an unnecessary chasm within the British people.

  Anyhow to show that not all Yorkshire folk are whisky drinkers and arrogant,I attached a short section from BBC question time,that deals with this fallout from the referendum.

 

 

 

[jimmybkk]

14 hours ago, sandyf said:

This is how one article put it today. Fact of the matter is she is pursuing a personal agenda based on the result of a vote that was fundamentally flawed.

 

" Yet when the Prime Minister said that the people who voted for Brexit “did so with their eyes open”, she told a monumental lie of monumental personal significance. "

" Literally, May was quite the George Washington. But assuming she meant it metaphorically, she was every inch the Donald Trump. As she very well knows, most people who voted for Brexit did so in the pitch dark, because the implications of leaving the EU were wholly obscured. They were pretty nebulous until today, actually, but on the 23rd of June they were unknown and unknowable.  "

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-brexit-speech-british-public-vote-europe-remain-leave-eyes-open-a7531746.html

 

If people voted in the pitch dark then the blame should lie on the shoulders of Cameron - because it was he who turned the lights out. His words were: “Our aim to set forward a choice for the British people that they want. And they can either choose to stay in a reformed European Union, or to leave a European Union. And, come what may, I will continue to lead the government in the way I have.”

 

The people voted under the assumption that their illustrious leader, whom they had voted for at the last general election, would lead the country through either a Brexit vote, or a Remain.vote... Because that's what he said he would do... And not surprisingly they assumed that he had a plan and a strategy for either eventuality... What they did not expect was that he would simply renege on his promise, up sticks and say: "See ya folks, I'm off..." And that is simply despicable.

 

And no doubt the same old rhetoric from certain Remainers shall follow this post along the lines of: "Everyone knew that Cameron would resign if the vote was for Brexit..." Well how about you numpties stop pretending that you have some kind of inside track on what Cameron was planning before the vote even happened and that you're oh-so superior to those of us who were stoopid enough to listen to the words that our dear leader himself delivered to us publicly, and accept the fact that he lied to, and deceived, the UK public about his intentions...  and Cameron's lies and deceipt no doubt influenced the way people voted... So why are you numpties trying to disguise that fact...? What are your reasons...?  (Actually you don't need to answer that... I've figured it out already...) But jeez guys - shouldn't you at least point the finger of blame in the right direction? Even an imbecile can see who has been the mass deceiver in this whole scenario and yet certain Remainer numpties seem to have been tasked with the job of insulating him from any suggestion that his actions may have not been the actions the voters would've expected from their esteemed leader, and instead everyone should blame May... Well ain't that something... Lol...

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Supreme Court vote decision scheduled for January 24. So, one week to go before we have a new list of Enemies Of The People.

 

Law_and_Policy write: ' If government loses (Supreme Court decision) one can be sure its supporters will accept defeat with good grace and will soon get over it without moaning. Ho Ho'.

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

 Am I the only one who is sick of the Remoaners harping on about those uneducated voters who cast their democratic vote for Britexit. Yet forgetting to mention that the majority of university US white voters voted for D.T.

Combine this with their continues talk of only the older people ( with their life experiance) voted for Britexit, while they, the selfish younger generation voted to remain. It would seem that the only thing the Remoaners have achieved is to cause an unnecessary chasm within the British people.

No you are not the only one. In fact I suspect that people are fed up with the constant whinging like little children, who have not got there way. I am and the futile argument has become boring. I suspect that it is the erason some TV posters are not posting as it is the same over and over again. Remoaners deal with it. The UK is leaving the EU and the single market and the ECJ. You should accept the referendum result, stop trying to block it, start showing a bit of backbone and support your country. If you don't like it then you can always become an EU citizen, according to Junker.

 

The EU are slowly killing any support they had from the UK people and the threats of punishing the UK and demanding this and that, will cause a revolt. Don't be surprised if a campaign for buying British starts and German and French products are left behind on the shelf. They would have brought it on themselves.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, jimmybkk said:

 

If people voted in the pitch dark then the blame should lie on the shoulders of Cameron - because it was he who turned the lights out. His words were: “Our aim to set forward a choice for the British people that they want. And they can either choose to stay in a reformed European Union, or to leave a European Union. And, come what may, I will continue to lead the government in the way I have.”

 

The people voted under the assumption that their illustrious leader, whom they had voted for at the last general election, would lead the country through either a Brexit vote, or a Remain.vote... Because that's what he said he would do... And not surprisingly they assumed that he had a plan and a strategy for either eventuality... What they did not expect was that he would simply renege on his promise, up sticks and say: "See ya folks, I'm off..." And that is simply despicable.

 

And no doubt the same old rhetoric from certain Remainers shall follow this post along the lines of: "Everyone knew that Cameron would resign if the vote was for Brexit..." Well how about you numpties stop pretending that you have some kind of inside track on what Cameron was planning before the vote even happened and that you're oh-so superior to those of us who were stoopid enough to listen to the words that our dear leader himself delivered to us publicly, and accept the fact that he lied to, and deceived, the UK public about his intentions...  and Cameron's lies and deceipt no doubt influenced the way people voted... So why are you numpties trying to disguise that fact...? What are your reasons...?  (Actually you don't need to answer that... I've figured it out already...) But jeez guys - shouldn't you at least point the finger of blame in the right direction? Even an imbecile can see who has been the mass deceiver in this whole scenario and yet certain Remainer numpties seem to have been tasked with the job of insulating him from any suggestion that his actions may have not been the actions the voters would've expected from their esteemed leader, and instead everyone should blame May... Well ain't that something... Lol...

So you agree the referendum was fundamentally flawed and the result to say the least, dubious.

[sandyf]

In her speech TM called for unity and claimed the country was coming together, looks like her MP's didn't get the memo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pmqs-tory-mps-jeer-snp-deputy-leader-angus-robertson-brexit-impact-jobs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-a7533346.html

 

I saw the whole of the pmqs live and many of the responses went off at a tangent rather than address the point, bit like on here.

Edited January 19, 2017 by sandyf