May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

On 18/01/2017 at 11:16 PM, nontabury said:

 

 Am I the only one who is sick of the Remoaners harping on about those uneducated voters who cast their democratic vote for Britexit. Yet forgetting to mention that the majority of university US white voters voted for D.T.

Combine this with their continues talk of only the older people ( with their life experiance) voted for Britexit, while they, the selfish younger generation voted to remain. It would seem that the only thing the Remoaners have achieved is to cause an unnecessary chasm within the British people.

  Anyhow to show that not all Yorkshire folk are whisky drinkers and arrogant,I attached a short section from BBC question time,that deals with this fallout from the referendum.

 

 

 

 

How embarrassing!

 

I know the BBC literally try to get a motley crew for the audience on "Robin Day's" Question Time but this lot was beyond the pale. I can only assume they are representative of Wakefield Metropolitan County rather than Yorkshire generally. I loved the woman saying she was not un-educated because she wrote two columns of pros and cons! Excellent! And that primary school teacher; would you let him near your kids?

 

In short, you actually prove my point albeit unwillingly. 

 

I'm sorry that you still don't really understand statistics generally and probalities and distributions in particular.

 

I standby my original statements:

 

Voting remain is correlated with education, age and demographic class.

 

However, it's a probability, a distribution, a likelihood. I am 62 but voted remain so on that parameter I am an outlier. I did receive a great education though.

 

As far as the chasm between remainers and Brexiteers this is bound to be the case. I accept the result and the UK will leave the EU. Don't expect me to change my view that it is a terrible decision though.

 

The thing that gets me is that those Brexiteers who are numpties are the ones who are going to be hurt the most. Amazing they trust the Con Government to look after their interests! 

 

Your comment about Trump is off topic. See you on another thread about that.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Grouse
Spelling

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Those of us who live in the UK are directly affected by a fall in the pound.

 

A weak pound means imported goods are more expensive.

 

The UK imports more than half it's food. These imports will became more expensive leading to price rises in the shops.

 

The rise in fuel prices will mean a rise in the cost of transporting goods, imported or not, to the shops; leading to a rise in prices.

 

I'm old enough to remember this: 19 November 1967: Harold Wilson’s ‘pound in your pocket’ little white lie

 

 

On Denmark St in London, Gibson guitar prices are up about 40% on a year ago. Not many British buyers but sales are up overall due to tourists!

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

During her speech TM said she would be looking into the 'rights' of EU citizens in the UK, she conveniently forgot to mention their safety.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-uk-government-theresa-may-prepared-spike-hate-crime-supreme-court-ruling-article-50-a7535911.html

 

The wise Brexiteers who shot down my points concerning the negative effects of Brexit take note.

 

My comment about rising Xenophobia was nothing to do with the referendum per se. It was addressing the rise in hate speech against "foreigners" generally but Poles in particular.

 

I feel ashamed about this. ?

[SheungWan]

49 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

On Denmark St in London, Gibson guitar prices are up about 40% on a year ago. Not many British buyers but sales are up overall due to tourists!

 

I 'er assume you were on a Yorkshire coach party in town to see a matinee musical and was lost having wandered off from your group after being told not to. Denmark Street a poor shadow of its former self with the redevelopments around Tott Court Road for Crossrail. Don't see too many brexiteers in town these days other than the ones dragging their belongings around in a supermarket trolley muttering 'bloody foreigners' in a not very quiet voice.

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

Voting remain is correlated with education, age and demographic class

We have discussed this before and on education certainly with myself and all my friends who have university degrees and higher it doesn't stand true. You are implying that having a first class education and a university degree is correlated with remain voters. How do you count for over 30 plus friends of mine who all voted leave. with ages from 32 to 61? Demographics I would agree with but not education. I will say it again, regardless of having a university degree, being supposedly smarter and educated does not make someone better informed to voting. Everyone has their own reasons for voting and an education does not make someone better suited to voting what is right or wrong.

[onthesoi]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

....being supposedly smarter and educated does not make someone better informed to voting......an education does not make someone better suited to voting what is right or wrong.

 

What a load of <deleted>!

 

Being smarter and better educated doesn't generally follow that you make better decisions?!?!?!?

 

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

.....an education does not make someone better suited to voting what is right or wrong.

 

Based on the grammar, structure and meaning of the above sentence I have to wonder what kind of university you attended.  It must have been the kind that didn't involve much writing.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by onthesoi

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, onthesoi said:

Being smarter and better educated doesn't generally follow that you make better decisions?!?!?!?

 

I totally agree that is what I am saying and mentioned in an earlier part of the thread.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[Srikcir]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

being supposedly smarter and educated does not make someone better informed to voting.

Or age. Very true especially when issues involve ideological viewpoints that often transform into emotional responses. Human nature isn't always ruled by logic or science.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

We have discussed this before and on education certainly with myself and all my friends who have university degrees and higher it doesn't stand true. You are implying that having a first class education and a university degree is correlated with remain voters. How do you count for over 30 plus friends of mine who all voted leave. with ages from 32 to 61? Demographics I would agree with but not education. I will say it again, regardless of having a university degree, being supposedly smarter and educated does not make someone better informed to voting. Everyone has their own reasons for voting and an education does not make someone better suited to voting what is right or wrong.

 

Nobody is saying that a good education results in someone being "right or wrong". Nor did I say that a university degree is specifically evidence of a good education

 

I am merely quoting that remain voting appears to be correlated with education level.

 

I really don't understand your sensitivity about this. Maybe you can suggest why 30 of your friends apparently are in the 52% rather than the 48%. Clearly this is anomalous.

 

Do you have another 28 friends who voted remain? Or is there some undisclosed factor?

 

I am glad that you accept that remain voting was correlated with demographic class. You see, I now firmly believe that increased inequality was one of the main reasons for dissatisfaction with the status quo.

 

Anyway, Nobody really cares. I was just responding to a Brexiteer post with a jibe aimed at me....

[Laughing Gravy]

10 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

What a load of <deleted>!

 

Being smarter and better educated doesn't generally follow that you make better decisions?!?!?!?

 

 

Based on the grammar, structure and meaning of the above sentence I have to wonder what kind of university you attended.  It must have been the kind that didn't involve much writing.

 

 

Really, I didn't realize I was submitting a research paper or thesis. I actually went to three not that it really matters. May I suggest that you go back and read the whole thread, as I had discussed this with the poster Grouse. It would seem that besides your insults you have just jumped on the back of  a thread and made yourself look rather inadequate.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Do you have another 28 friends who voted remain? Or is there some undisclosed factor?

 

I know of only 2 people who I call friends voted remain. I had significantly more friends who voted leave who had no degree and we have discussed this issue before. So if this is some undisclosed factor so be it.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Really, I didn't realize I was submitting a research paper or thesis. I actually went to three not that it really matters. May I suggest that you go back and read the whole thread, as I had discussed this with the poster Grouse. It would seem that besides your insults you have just jumped on the back of  a thread and made yourself look rather inadequate.

 

Go on, humour us. What did you read at 3 universities? Do you have 3 degrees? 

 

I studied semiconductor physics...

[Laughing Gravy]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Go on, humour us. What did you read at 3 universities? Do you have 3 degrees? 

 

I studied semiconductor physics...

Actually to be correct one was a Polytechnic first. The other two universities for post graduate level. No I won't be drawn into this either for your humour or for the rudeness of another poster. Regardless, if the polls what you are suggesting, then if I did the same poll amongst my circle of friends, then the opposite would be true. The majority who voted to leave had a university degree.

Also it has been certain media outlets suggesting that those who voted leave didn't have a university degree, so therefor they are less smarter and less worldly aware of the EU, which I believe it to be complete nonsense.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[rockingrobin]

29 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually to be correct one was a Polytechnic first. The other two universities for post graduate level. No I won't be drawn into this either for your humour or for the rudeness of another poster. Regardless, if the polls what you are suggesting, then if I did the same poll amongst my circle of friends, then the opposite would be true. The majority who voted to leave had a university degree.

Also it has been certain media outlets suggesting that those who voted leave didn't have a university degree, so therefor they are less smarter and less worldly aware of the EU, which I believe it to be complete nonsense.

The evidence was presented  by Yougov

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

 

[Grouse]

38 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The evidence was presented  by Yougov

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

 

 

So, Gravy, can we just put you down as a statistical outlier?

 

We can then just get on with our lives!

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Go on, humour us. What did you read at 3 universities? Do you have 3 degrees? 

 

I studied semiconductor physics...

 

If memory serves me correctly, the average science student's idea of intellectual engagement outside of their immediate studies was watching Tom and Jerry cartoons.

[Srikcir]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

watching Tom and Jerry cartoons

passe....today it's Itchy & Scratchy cartoons

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

passe....today it's Itchy & Scratchy cartoons

 

Nah, Cow & Chicken was the intellectual peak in recent history. 

 

However Noggin the Nog is still the best cartoon series of all time.

 

All this is off topic of course, but it is Sunday and an interlude is no bad thing ?

[SheungWan]

UK inflation:

 

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

We have discussed this before and on education certainly with myself and all my friends who have university degrees and higher it doesn't stand true. You are implying that having a first class education and a university degree is correlated with remain voters. How do you count for over 30 plus friends of mine who all voted leave. with ages from 32 to 61? Demographics I would agree with but not education. I will say it again, regardless of having a university degree, being supposedly smarter and educated does not make someone better informed to voting. Everyone has their own reasons for voting and an education does not make someone better suited to voting what is right or wrong.

 

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Or age. Very true especially when issues involve ideological viewpoints that often transform into emotional responses. Human nature isn't always ruled by logic or science.

Agree with both of these posts for various reasons.

 

As Srikcir pointed out, emotional responses sometimes take over - hence the 'little Englander' attitude of many people (for which I read 'nationalistic') - common amongst both educated and uneducated.

 

On the other hand, I doubt anyone would disagree that a good education doesn't necessarily mean that the person actually THINK for themselves about things un-related to their own personal interests.

Edited January 22, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The evidence was presented  by Yougov

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted/

 

I'm still wondering how they have all these accurate statistics, bearing in mind voting is anonymous?

 

Presumably its based on demographics rather than actual information about how individual voters, voted?

[7by7]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm still wondering how they have all these accurate statistics, bearing in mind voting is anonymous?

 

Presumably its based on demographics rather than actual information about how individual voters, voted?

 

They ask people; Panel Methodology

Quote

Who takes part in Public Opinion research?


Over the last ten years, YouGov has carefully recruited a panel of over 800,000 British adults to take part in our surveys. Panel members are recruited from a host of different sources, including via standard advertising, and strategic partnerships with a broad range of websites

 

Then weight the responses to reflect the demographics of the population as a whole; Research Q&A's

Quote

Q. You mention "weighting". Newspaper reports of surveys often say that the data have been “weighted”. What does this mean?

A. Almost all surveys involve weighting, whether they are conducted online, face-to-face or by telephone. This is to ensure that the published results properly reflect the population they seek to measure. For example, men comprise 48% of the electorate and women 52%. The raw figures in a well-conducted survey will be close to this, but not necessarily match these numbers exactly. Suppose the raw figures contain 50% men and 50% women. YouGov's computer would slightly "downweight" the replies given by the men (so that the replies of 50 men count as if they were 48) and slightly “upweight” the replies given by women (so that the replies of 50 women count as if they were 52).

In practice, the task is more complex than this, as matters such as age, social class, region and newspaper readership, as well as gender, have to be considered simultaneously. This is a task for YouGov's computer, which adjusts the raw data to take account of all these factors.

 

 

[AlexRich]

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Those of us who live in the UK are directly affected by a fall in the pound.

 

A weak pound means imported goods are more expensive.

 

The UK imports more than half it's food. These imports will became more expensive leading to price rises in the shops.

 

The rise in fuel prices will mean a rise in the cost of transporting goods, imported or not, to the shops; leading to a rise in prices.

 

I'm old enough to remember this: 19 November 1967: Harold Wilson’s ‘pound in your pocket’ little white lie

 

 

Yes, I already made the same argument in previous posts. But the UK has yet to feel the impact of this, anyone staying in Thailand or the Far East would have felt the impact immediately, and to a much greater extent, than people in the U.K. will, even in coming months. KH was always unconcerned about the GBP fiasco, and now I suspect I know why, he's not staying in Thailand and is unaffected by it ... many of those extolling the virtues of Brexit don't feel it's impact ... currently.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

UK inflation:

 

According to most economists, an inflation rate of only 1.6 percent is still too low.

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm still wondering how they have all these accurate statistics, bearing in mind voting is anonymous?

 

Presumably its based on demographics rather than actual information about how individual voters, voted?

 

The claim is that on balance, a higher proportion of tertiary educated people voted to remain, as did a higher proportion of younger people. A higher proportion of people with school only qualifications voted to leave.

 

No one claimed that no people with tertiary education qualifications voted to leave. And no one claimed that no young people voted to leave, nor that many people with school only qualifications voted to stay.

 

Are you stating that the above is untrue?  It's true that we don't have a definitive number, but that does not in itself mean that the claims are untrue.

 

 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The claim is that on balance, a higher proportion of tertiary educated people voted to remain, as did a higher proportion of younger people. A higher proportion of people with school only qualifications voted to leave.

 

No one claimed that no people with tertiary education qualifications voted to leave. And no one claimed that no young people voted to leave, nor that many people with school only qualifications voted to stay.

 

Are you stating that the above is untrue?  It's true that we don't have a definitive number, but that does not in itself mean that the claims are untrue.

 

 

 

Thank you for explaining nicely. I failed ?

[Grouse]

Not heard from Rock for a while. Anyone know why?

[Grouse]

27 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

According to most economists, an inflation rate of only 1.6 percent is still too low.

 

Look at the rate of change. A bit of dy/dx....

 

As far as I know, the bank is still targeting <2%. We will overshoot. By miles ?

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Not heard from Rock for a while. Anyone know why?

 

He was offered the job of Donald Trump's press secretary and gracefully accepted. He's now in full "hissy fit" mode over the numbers for the inauguration ... how dare people question his "facts". 

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.    If you have nothing to say about the topic, then please stop moving on.   I am sure there are other topics that may pique your interest.