Landlord obligations.

[parko]

I am renting a house in Bangkok. Our electric shower stopped working last week following an electrical power cut.  The landlord is refusing to replace the shower. Within the contract of tenancy there is no mention of the landlord being required to maintain the property to an acceptable/liveable standard.  Does anyone know if the law can offer me any general protection in this type of circumstance?  I plan to do the repair myself then deduct the cost of the work from my rental payment.  I am, however, concerned about the possible consequences of doing this (eg being evicted by police for not paying rent in full).  Any advice would be very welcome.  Whilst the cost of a shower is not much, what would happen if the air conditioning broke... I would need to pay for the repair!  I've rented properties in Chiang Mai with no such problems and had very obliging landlords. Thank you.

[JHolmesJr]

There should always be a clause that specifies whos responsible for breakdowns and repairs...usually theres a certain ceiling.....small repairs the tenant takes care off.....big ticket stuff is the landlords remit....suck it up. 

[Jdietz]

Before you do anything drastic, try resetting the shower RCD, usually a small black button at the bottom you need to press in again.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Jdietz

[Dexlowe]

6 minutes ago, Jdietz said:

Before you do anything drastic, try resetting the shower RCD, usually a small black button at the bottom you need to press in again.

 

Or the ELCB test button, if there is one. But afterwards, you might need to disconnect the power at the mains and turn it back on. Don't know why, but this step was required with my last water heater problem.

[Scott]

Moved to the Real Estate section.  

[thailand49]

The longer you stay at this property the more problem are going to arise in the future.  From my experience in Real Estate I list these type of people as " you because you can own property mean you should "  Being in Thailand there isn't any renter rights from what I can see. The attitude again from my experience is majority of landlords especially the private ones in general feel if it breaks you must have been the one since you are using it. 

From your report it should like there was a surge that knocked it out and might need to be reset?  Nevertheless, as mentioned what is going to happen if something major, A/C service etc.. Who?

You have a landlord if cares about one thing?  the money he gets each month.. I would move break the contract etc... what is he going to do.  I know tenants who pack up at night take off it is doggie dog?

[Familyaffairs]

It should be specifed in the contract, but fixed items such as water heaters and aircons, leaking roofs etc should be on the landlord. Eviction by police? No way. It is a civil matter, so nothing to do with them. They might be able to seduce thrm to come along, but they are powerless.

[DGS1244]

You should have agreed all this at the contract stage. I have arrangement with my land lord that I do/arrange most repairs and deduct the cost from the rent, he is more than pleased with this as he has less to worry about and his house is kept in good condition.

[IAMHERE]

10 hours ago, Jdietz said:

Before you do anything drastic, try resetting the shower RCD, usually a small black button at the bottom you need to press in again.

Yes, and be sure to check the circuit breaker box if there is one.

[AlQaholic]

Do not do anything about the heater except check breaker and ELCB on the heater. If heater still not working, buy some cheap thing a lotus and just hang it temporarily next to the old one and connect the old electric cables and tubing to the new one. 

When you move out take the new heater with you, but do not forget to connect the old heater to the old cables and tubing.

[iang]

We had a similar thing happen to a higher wattage hot water heater (not the shower type) following a power surge. It was several years old & had given good service, so I thought it was broken & went out to buy a replacement unit to swap over. When I took the casing off the old unit (switch off breaker first), there was a reset button inside the casing, with no external access. I gave it a go & hey presto,after switching the power back on, the unit was working perfectly. And I was then on the way back to Homepro to try and get a refund on the replacement unit bought!

 

My message is therefore, after turning off the power, to remove the casing to look for a reset button/ swich. Just because there is nothing externally available, doesn't mean there isn't one there!

 

As for your landlord, well, it should be time to look for a new place when your lease expires, or if you enter into a new lease, make sure this sort of eventuality allocating responsibility is covered!

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

Yes, and be sure to check the circuit breaker box if there is one.

 

Be good to see if the shower has an earth connection too. 

[ghworker2010]

just move out to a new rental property

[Deepinthailand]

As a husband of a landlady (as I can't be a landlord) she (we) clearly set out in the contract who what and why. Showers are the responsibility of the Tennant All ecelctrical items in house are tested before Tenant  moves in and tenant is shown all to be working. They are also shown all reset buttons (which I'm sure the op problem is). Every 6 months we send an electrician round to test all Ecelctrical circuits and goods. If there is a fault it's corrected. If the fault is deemed to be of the Tennants making ie not looking after it. then it is charged to tenants.

Air conditioning is also cleaned every 6 months at our expense as we all know regular maintained they will last a long time.

But I will say as I've said before due to previous farang tenants leaving our properties in what can only be described as a pig stye. We now only rent to Thais and a lot of these problems of who pays for what never appear if the shower was to break they fix it.

HAVING said only Thais we have two sets still of exellent farang (UK and USA) tenants. We look at it this way a good landlord usualy means a good tenant.

[KittenKong]

Anyone renting property in Thailand should rewrite the rental terms to cover all contingencies, as these terms are often heavily biased in favour of the landlord. Clauses on the lines of "the landlord is responsible for repairs and maintenance exceeding xB in any one month, the tenant is responsible for smaller sums" and "the landlord is responsible for normal wear and tear" are vital. Without this the landlord will expect the tenant to replace or repair any broken item when leaving, even if the item just broke because it was completely shoddy and worn out.

 

When renting my condo I set the bar at 1000B per month, which covers things like lightbulbs, coffee cups and toilet seats, but not things like water heaters, fridges, aircons or mattresses. Had the landlord not liked this I would simply have taken another condo. There are far more empty properties than there are potential tenants.

[Brer Fox]

The landlord has no obligations other than to collect the rent and/or make life difficult for you if he/she has a reason to do so.

[Deepinthailand]

14 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Anyone renting property in Thailand should rewrite the rental terms to cover all contingencies, as these terms are often heavily biased in favour of the landlord. Clauses on the lines of "the landlord is responsible for repairs and maintenance exceeding xB in any one month, the tenant is responsible for smaller sums" and "the landlord is responsible for normal wear and tear" are vital. Without this the landlord will expect the tenant to replace or repair any broken item when leaving, even if the item just broke because it was completely shoddy and worn out.

 

When renting my condo I set the bar at 1000B per month, which covers things like lightbulbs, coffee cups and toilet seats, but not things like water heaters, fridges, aircons or mattresses. Had the landlord not liked this I would simply have taken another condo. There are far more empty properties than there are potential tenants.

555 you would be looking for another  condo if you tried to rewrite our contract. 

[parko]

Thank you for all your feedback.  It seems clear that in Thailand the contract is king and there are no general laws to support tenants.  Unfortunately, our current contract does not have a clause covering repairs so I'm concerned about anything serious happening in the future, AC breakdown for example.  It's a learning point and I'll be sure to make sure there is clarity in future contracts!

[Autonuaq]

all depend on the nerves you have.

 

Rented a new place and before enter did do an inspection of things to be replaced and repaired.

So when entered a few thing would have bee repaired but was not repaired made a new list send by email and try to get all well documents as in friendly notes and so on all send by email and summaries of the meeting we have had.

The friendly ness of the land lord went and became unfriendly because she did not want to do what was agreed on, send an email and registered letter about the things to be done as well copy of all the emails. the I waited till the next payment had to be done and on the day before that payment I told her to withheld the rent until all was done as agreed on by registered mail.

I just let the rent payment pass for the second months and then on the last day moved out.

Sending a registered letter with that I terminated the contract due to her lack of action and for filling the contract. And a few pictures of some the things.

So I did have had my bail 'back 'and only paid in total three months rent same as the period I rented.

And just moved on to a better landlord.

 

The western expectation are different from the Eastern expectation

And even between the western expectations, there are differences.

 

[elgordo38]

Thailand landlords can really be nice people till a problem arises. A problem equates to spending money and that is where the personality change CAN/MAY occur. Always sign a lease and make sure your have read it!! Now you have a 50/50 chance. Getting your damage deposit back when moving can be another thorn in your side. You should do a photo shoot when you move in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bark]

1 hour ago, parko said:

Thank you for all your feedback.  It seems clear that in Thailand the contract is king and there are no general laws to support tenants.  Unfortunately, our current contract does not have a clause covering repairs so I'm concerned about anything serious happening in the future, AC breakdown for example.  It's a learning point and I'll be sure to make sure there is clarity in future contracts!

Why do you need hot showers. Cold is healthy for your body.

[craigt3365]

Before you deduct anything from your payment,  check with the landoord. This is Thailand. Anything can happen. It can get nasty. The legal system here is corrupt,  as are the police. If the landlord is well connected,  you could have a really tough time.

[JKfarang]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

555 you would be looking for another  condo if you tried to rewrite our contract. 

 

It amazes me that some owners believe the tenant is responsible for anything that stops functioning properly. I met one a few weeks ago at a dinner party.  One of the reasons I decided to rent in Thailand was because I was tired of being responsible for all repairs after 20 years of home ownership in the US.  If an appliance, etc. stops functioning due to my negligence then I will pay as any responsible person should.  However, I am not going to replace the owner's 15 year old television (or 6 month old cheap brand microwave oven for that matter) if it stops functioning for any reason that is not my fault.

 

Two years ago I considered renting a nice condo on a 1 year lease from an owner who lives overseas.  I reviewed the rental contract and requested that clauses be added describing the owners responsibilities (since only the renters responsibilities were included).  I was told that everything in the condo was "new" and therefore should have no problems during my stay.  I responded with an example of a General Motors recall for defects in millions of "new" Chevrolet cars underway at that time.  Though the owner then added contract clauses stating their responsibilities I decided to find another, nicer condo in the same complex (and for less money). 

 

I stayed 2 years and had no conflicts with the owner, who promptly addressed even minor problems.  The 1st condo (2 floors below) remained vacant for the duration of my stay in condo #2.  Loss to the owner of condo #1: 33,000B/month * 24 months.  Moral of the story (as others have stated): insure that the rental contract is written in such a way as to protect the interests of both the owner and the tenant in a fair and reasonable manner.  If not, find another rental property that does.

 

[craigt3365]

A friend moved out of his rental house a few years ago. Lived there only 1 year. The Thai landlord tried to get him to pay for fixing quite a few expensive things. Totally out of line. They reported him to immigration and it was a mess. Not sure the final result as they left Thailand. Turned them off from retiring here.

[Deepinthailand]

Our contracts are designed to protect us as landlords and the Tennant.  our contracts work well we have never been asked to add any clauses from the Tennant. We also on the day of move in accompany the Tennant and with there permission take pictures of all the property and electrical stuff ie showers water pump wall mounted fans and aircon with the Tennant in picture we also encourage them to do the same whilst we are there. IF I put a brand new microwave in (only one property is furnished by the way) and it goes tits up in 6 months then I would immediately return said microwave to shop of purchase. but if the microwave was then found by the shop to be non fair ware and tear. I would expect the Tennant to explain the shops findings. As we are out primerily to make money out of our properties it makes sence to have the property 8n exellent condition. But we will not pander to Tennants whims if they don't like our contract (and this has never happened). As you say there are other places to rent and would wish them good luck.

WE primerily rent unfurnished apart from one condo furnished. houses not furnished.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

555 you would be looking for another  condo if you tried to rewrite our contract. 

 

And you would have lost a perfect tenant who always pays in advance and never causes problems of any type.

 

Like I said, there are far more empty condos than there are potential tenants so finding another condo really isn't a problem.

[teacherpaul]

8 hours ago, thailand49 said:

The longer you stay at this property the more problem are going to arise in the future.  From my experience in Real Estate I list these type of people as " you because you can own property mean you should "  Being in Thailand there isn't any renter rights from what I can see. The attitude again from my experience is majority of landlords especially the private ones in general feel if it breaks you must have been the one since you are using it. 

From your report it should like there was a surge that knocked it out and might need to be reset?  Nevertheless, as mentioned what is going to happen if something major, A/C service etc.. Who?

You have a landlord if cares about one thing?  the money he gets each month.. I would move break the contract etc... what is he going to do.  I know tenants who pack up at night take off it is doggie dog?

Haha. It's dog eat dog.

[Deepinthailand]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

And you would have lost a perfect tenant who always pays in advance and never causes problems of any type.

 

Like I said, there are far more empty condos than there are potential tenants so finding another condo really isn't a problem.

That's great for you pleased for you but as I said not for us and as I also said no farangs for us anymore far to much hassle

[SOTIRIOS]

...sadly the shark is circling.....

[williet98248]

19 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

555 you would be looking for another  condo if you tried to rewrite our contract. 

Well...I guess it depends on your contract, doesn't it?  When I rented my house four years ago I added several clauses that protect me against major expense but assure the absentee landlord that the house is being maintained in good condition.  I take care of regular maintenance and when something major happens I call her about it and deduct the cost from the rent.  She visits a couple times a year and is always happy to see the condition.  I do some things just to upgrade and keep up with the upscale neighborhood.  I recently put in a new lawn at my expense.  I added several electric outlets outside and inside just to make the electric more useful.  I would never rent a place that the contract didn't spell out who is responsible for what. Nor will I pay a large deposit that I have no expectation of ever getting back.  Out of six times renting in thirteen years I have had only one landlord from hell and even she would shoulder the expense of major repairs although she would hire tuk tuk drivers and street vendors to do the work.  The kicker was when she decided to replace the entire drop ceiling.  I watched the work and told her several times she would be lucky if it lasted six months.  I moved out six months later to a house next door.  Four days later the entire ceiling crashed down.  I heard it from next door.