Inverter vs traditional air conditioners

[beachump]

Just wanted to give feedback on this subject.

 

I'm in a 48sm studio (7 are on the balcony) and had a 5 year old traditional 28k unit. It was set to 27 running all the time except when I would be gone more than 2 hours.  I began to realize that it was probably oversized.  It cycled quite often, the humidity was always high and the electric bill averaged 95 baht a day during this March and April.  I  then decided on a 24k inverter (rated nominal 20,500).

 

The only negatives I though would be 1. Higher initial cost  2. Take longer to cool down the room.

 

After two full months of use I have found   1. Lower humidity  2. More constant temperature  3. Very acceptable cool down time  4. Much lower electric bill

 

September and October averaged 35 baht a day.               INVERTER TECHNOLOGY IS A NO BRAINER    choosing the correct BTU requires some research

[KittenKong]

I switched from an old regular aircon to a new inverter model three years ago. My bill dropped from around 4000-4500B a month to between 1200-1800. My model is about 21k used in a studio a fair bit larger than yours.

 

I dont know what proportion of the saving came from the new aircon being new, or from it being an inverter, but the saving is definitely there. It also works far better in that the old one rarely cycled off at all. The new one goes on and off depending on the outdoor temperature as one might expect. It's also much quieter both inside and out.

[juehoe]

Which brand do you use? Samsung has a fast cool (called Turbo) setting, where cool the room quite fast, even faster than with conventional air conditioners.

Other brands/models have «intelligent» cooling where the room is cooled fast in a first step. The air conditioner switches to a drying mode.

I use Samsung inverters in my office. There are extremely quite (inside and outside). The also have a very quite «sleep» option.

Some models can be controlled by your phone. So you can start the air conditioner when you on the way back home. The house/room will be already cool when arriving home.

[KittenKong]

Mine is Hitachi.

 

I actually leave it on more or less constantly all year, with a period of a few weeks in the depths of what they call winter here when I turn it off and open the patio doors for a few hours.

 

So I'm afraid I dont really know how the fast cool mode works (though I know it does have one). I leave the fan on the middle setting and the temperature set to 27, and that's it.

[kannot]

24k for  just 40  odd metres???? Blimey " I saw you coming"

 

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

24k for  just 40  odd metres???? Blimey " I saw you coming"

 

Standard Thai guesstimate is 600 BTU / m², 40m² comes out at 24,000 BTU.

[luwahn]

I have learned from another A/C thread in this forum that Daikin inverters are the A/C units to have. Daikin A/Cs are now equipped with the newer R32 refrigerant which uses less energy, cools faster and is also more ecologically friendly than the other A/Cs with the older R410A & R22 refrigerant. Comparing the EER specs of same-size A/C units before you buy will indicate the amount of savings (or costs) of the units. The lower the EER = the less energy required to operate = the less cost for the owner (multiplied times (10, 15?) years of usage).

[tutsiwarrior]

I agree that Daikin are desireable units but there are no dealers outside of BKK and CM? has anyone out in the sticks been able to have Daikin units installed and serviced?

 

I'm in the market for a new 24000Btu/hr unit meself and it looks like the usual offering from the local appliance shop or from the Homepro in changwat Suphanburi...LG, Samsung, Hitachi, etc...

 

we had a conventional Samsung for 10 years and now a conventional Hitachi and they both were OK but this time I'd like an inverter to see if the operating cost is reduced as everyone claims...

 

I need AC in the bedroon to sleep and now that I'm retired I'm gonna splash out and get one for my downstairs study...the wife and her family aren't bothered and see the concept of AC as some sort of falang mischief...

 

 

[KittenKong]

The chap in the Jomtien condo opposite mine bought Daikin on promotion at HomePro or HomeWorks. The price was not unduly high. Cant say that they seem to be any better than mine, but nor do they seem to be any worse. Time will tell.

[KittenKong]

On 04/11/2016 at 2:19 PM, luwahn said:

Daikin A/Cs are now equipped with the newer R32 refrigerant .....

 

So is my Hitachi. I think it's common these days.

[Jdietz]

Actually that stuff is worse in every aspect except environmental considerations.

[kannot]

On 11/4/2016 at 8:00 AM, Crossy said:

 

Standard Thai guesstimate is 600 BTU / m², 40m² comes out at 24,000 BTU.

would  have thought 18k  tops even  for  Thailand

[David B in Thailand]

tutsiwarrior: I had three Daikin Inverter a/c units installed in Buriram province by Buriram Supply located near the Bamboo Bar. The son of the owner speaks English. This store provided a site survey prior to me selecting which a/c units to buy. Very quiet compared to an older Toshiba I had in a different home.  Daikin central a/c units are also installed and serviced in Buriram Province. 

[wpcoe]

22 hours ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

 

 

On 11/4/2016 at 5:54 AM, kannot said:

24k for  just 40  odd metres???? Blimey " I saw you coming"

 

On 11/4/2016 at 8:00 AM, Crossy said:

 

Standard Thai guesstimate is 600 BTU / m², 40m² comes out at 24,000 BTU.

 

15 hours ago, kannot said:

would  have thought 18k  tops even  for  Thailand

 

As Crossy said it's "Standard Thai guesstimate."  Lots of factors can push the result up or down.

 

Perhaps you had a condo unit in a high-rise (insulated by other units on top/bottom/both sides) and a deep balcony so no direct sunlight entered the unit -- then you could well get away with 18k BTU.

 

But, if you had an end unit with an exposed wall facing west on the top floor with a shallow south-facing balcony so direct sun flooded the unit, you might need bigger than 24k BTU.

 

And, lots of permutations in between.

 

(PS:  Not sure how that top quote made it into this reply.  It was from a reply in a different thread...)

[tutsiwarrior]

14 hours ago, David B in Thailand said:

tutsiwarrior: I had three Daikin Inverter a/c units installed in Buriram province by Buriram Supply located near the Bamboo Bar. The son of the owner speaks English. This store provided a site survey prior to me selecting which a/c units to buy. Very quiet compared to an older Toshiba I had in a different home.  Daikin central a/c units are also installed and serviced in Buriram Province. 

 

sounds good...my investigation into local Daikin suppliers in Suphanburi is a few years old...gonna havta renew my efforts in this regard...

 

when is the best time to buy, I wonder? now during the cold season or later in March? are there any special offers, promotions, etc when the demand for installed capacity increases?

 

 

[The Fat Controller]

We bought 2 Daikin inverter aircons from HomePro in Ubon Ratchathani during the April "Hot Season" sale.

 

We had a site visit to ensure we had sized the units correctly and they actually recommended a smaller unit for the second bedroom than we had calculated.

 

My wife got a further discount from the store manager by telling the survey team the price we were prepared to pay, the only condition was that we had to pay in full on the day.

 

HomePro were great, they held the units in stock for us until we were ready to install, we were refurbishing the house.

 

The HomePro installation team were the best people who worked on our house, punctual, professional, efficient and tidy.

 

The aircons work very well and the outside units are unbelievably quiet.

 

The only (inconvenient) issue was that the manuals are only in Thai, but I found an English version which I could download from the Australian website.

[Crossy]

23 minutes ago, The Fat Controller said:

The HomePro installation team were the best people who worked on our house, punctual, professional, efficient and tidy.

 

We got all our aircons from HomePro Rangsit. As TFC says their installation crew were excellent, amazingly little mess considering they had to core through two walls per unit. Proper vacuum kit to test and charge the units, no issues whatever.

 

[bankruatsteve]

Do you think the installation team was actually Home Pro employees or consigned to a local crew?  When I had a Daikin installed from Udon Thani Home Hub, the crew was an Udon Thani AC shop.  Just saying.

[lopburi3]

On 11/5/2016 at 7:08 PM, tutsiwarrior said:

I agree that Daikin are desireable units but there are no dealers outside of BKK and CM? has anyone out in the sticks been able to have Daikin units installed and serviced?

 

I'm in the market for a new 24000Btu/hr unit meself and it looks like the usual offering from the local appliance shop or from the Homepro in changwat Suphanburi...LG, Samsung, Hitachi, etc...

 

we had a conventional Samsung for 10 years and now a conventional Hitachi and they both were OK but this time I'd like an inverter to see if the operating cost is reduced as everyone claims...

 

I need AC in the bedroon to sleep and now that I'm retired I'm gonna splash out and get one for my downstairs study...the wife and her family aren't bothered and see the concept of AC as some sort of falang mischief...

 

 

This is for a downstairs study?  Remember bigger is not better and downstairs should not require anywhere near as much cooling as rooms under hot attic.  How big is this 'study'?  I have a downstairs bedroom of 25sm and 9k normal Panasonic cools it fine to our desired 27-28 range - as you live here full time expect that will be cool enough for you unless your study involves more physical work than rising the glass.  

 

 

Grandchildren have about same size room adjacent with Mitsubishi inverter of same size and keep it cold (probably 25) without issues last 4 years (other than coils getting dirty within about 4-5 months - two teenage girls so probably a lot of dust).  

[juehoe]

 
Standard Thai guesstimate is 600 BTU / m², 40m² comes out at 24,000 BTU.

You can use less power in a house with good insulation and when to have time.

The Thai estimate is about twice what international recommended. But Thais customers want to cool down their hot condos within 5 minutes.

Modern air on can be controlled over the Internet. So you can start cooling when your on the way back home and enter a already cooled home.

[juehoe]

I can really recommend the Inverter technology. It is still more expensive, but the benefits are big. As already mentioned, the inverter units work very quiet (inside and outside) and offer a better comfort.

[Anthony5]

On 11/4/2016 at 0:29 AM, KittenKong said:

Mine is Hitachi.

 

I actually leave it on more or less constantly all year, with a period of a few weeks in the depths of what they call winter here when I turn it off and open the patio doors for a few hours.

 

So I'm afraid I dont really know how the fast cool mode works (though I know it does have one). I leave the fan on the middle setting and the temperature set to 27, and that's it.

 

 

I have Daikin inverters installed and use them every night in 2 bedrooms set at 26°.

 

During the months November to January I usually don't need the aircons and only have ceiling fans running. My electricity bill will be less than 200 Baht lower during those months.

 

 

[Anthony5]

12 minutes ago, juehoe said:

 

You can use less power in a house with good insulation and when to have time.

The Thai estimate is about twice what international recommended. But Thais customers want to cool down their hot condos within 5 minutes.

Modern air on can be controlled over the Internet. So you can start cooling when your on the way back home and enter a already cooled home.

 

 

No the Thai estimate isn't twice of what Crossy quote. 600 BTU/sqm meter is the international standard. In fact Daikin Thailand recommends 750 BTU/sqm

 

This is a calculator from a non Thai based website, and it says 600 BTU/sqm

 

http://www.airconexperts.co.za/btu_calc.html

[tutsiwarrior]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

This is for a downstairs study?  Remember bigger is not better and downstairs should not require anywhere near as much cooling as rooms under hot attic.  How big is this 'study'?  I have a downstairs bedroom of 25sm and 9k normal Panasonic cools it fine to our desired 27-28 range - as you live here full time expect that will be cool enough for you unless your study involves more physical work than rising the glass.  

 

 

Grandchildren have about same size room adjacent with Mitsubishi inverter of same size and keep it cold (probably 25) without issues last 4 years (other than coils getting dirty within about 4-5 months - two teenage girls so probably a lot of dust).  

 

my study is about 40 m2 (bottom shophouse floor not including my kitchen, tutsi's serene western enclave in a world of chaos) so using the 600Btu/m2 rough calc I get 24k Btu...we got 6" fiberglass insulation in the attic and the upstairs 24K hitachi in the bedroom works OK running in the evenings...but, yeah I take your point that the AC load should be less downstairs, no ceiling heat ingress and west walls in the shade, etc...but I'd rather be oversized and run the unit at a higher set point...

 

hey, man...the cerebral activity in my study generates significant heat...should have a seawater nuclear reactor cooling system for the associated load...assorted 19 y.o. nieces come by and sizzle in their little shorts/cutoffs, etc...'whaddaya lookin' at uncle tutsi?' 'nothin', just trine t'guess yer weight...'

 

 

[lopburi3]

The problem is oversize equates to less humidity control - much better to lower the humidity than create a fungus enclave with refrigerator environment.  

 

Perhaps during retirement tutsi can age graciously and just rock in peace.

 

[tutsiwarrior]

14 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

The problem is oversize equates to less humidity control - much better to lower the humidity than create a fungus enclave with refrigerator environment.  

 

Perhaps during retirement tutsi can age graciously and just rock in peace.

 

 

 

 

all we wanna do is keep the party goin' and 'keep on rockin'!'...in airconditioned comfort...

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

Amazing how young we can believe we are when below is probably how we are being viewed by many.

At any rate 40sm is quite a large area so 24 is probably good if you plan to keep it at shopping mall temp.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

During the months November to January I usually don't need the aircons and only have ceiling fans running. My electricity bill will be less than 200 Baht lower during those months.

 

That's a surprisingly small difference.

[Anthony5]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

That's a surprisingly small difference.

 

Yes it is, but I should add that the units are only 12000 BTU

[kannot]

6 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Yes it is, but I should add that the units are only 12000 BTU

my 50m2 house double,  block walls surrounded by trees, vented  roof, insulated concrete tile   roof, 12mm gyproc ceilings. upvc windows is  kept at 25-6c  all year round  by one 10000 btu samsung non environmentally friendly  old type  refrigerant non inverter

Winter 900-1000 baht  summer 2000 baht/month on at least 18 hours  a day minimum

Summer  temps up to 42  c outside I live in a  field,  no other neighbours, heat radiated up from the ground here is a massive factor