Brexit hits speed bump as court rules lawmakers must get say

[Laughing Gravy]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

" Do you really believe that if Nigel Farage says that 79 million may get visa free access by the end of the year, nobody is going to take it on board. Scaremongering at its worst. "

I do not believe 60 million or 79 million were scared into voting either way which is being suggested. Give the people credit. They make informed choices and certainly not from just one idea or suggestion.

[sandyf]

52 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 I'm sorry,but where did he go down on his bended knees? 

what did come over it that speech,very early on, he stated that it was a one off referendum ( everyone knew this,the same as in the Britex referendum), the result which ever way it went would be binding.

  

In the 2014 Scottish referendum, out of a small number of voters, 3.6 million, those that voted NO exceeded those that voted yes by .4 million. So a clear majority.

 

 In the 2016 Britex vote , out of the total votes cast 33.5 million,  the majority for leave was 1.3 Million. So again a clear majority.  

 

 In the USA election, out of 120 million voters, the majority did not vote for the winner, in fact Hillary Clinton received 200,000 more votes than Donald Trump. So NOT a clear majority.

 

Yet Nicola Sturgeon does not respect or accept the democratic vote,ither in the Scottish or the E.U election,where a sizable majority voted against what she wanted,

Yet she respects and accepts the vote in America,which showed more people voting for the loosing candidate.

 

 This is typical of N.S and the rest of the Remoaners. If the vote does't go their way protest and declare it undemocratic. Maybe  they should follow Hillary Clinton example, who even though receiving most votes,puts that aside for the benefit of her country, and accepted the result.

I can understand your viewpoint, it is not in brexit camps interest to acknowledge anything said by a Scottish minister as the view of the Scottish people does count for anything, despite what David Cameron said to them. You obviously believe that there was no majority in Scotland for her view.

 

There were 2,679,513 votes cast (not including rejected ballots) in Scotland. There were 1,661,191 for Remain, exactly 62% of the votes cast.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36614284

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I do not believe 60 million or 79 million were scared into voting either way which is being suggested. Give the people credit. They make informed choices and certainly not from just one idea or suggestion.

"I do not believe 60 million or 79 million were scared into voting"

 

Nobody believes that, and it was not suggested either. You do this time and time again, claiming something was said when all it is is bad reading on your part. And when one of your arguments is again refuted you just ignore it.

 

There is no way a reasonable discussion can be had this way.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"I do not believe 60 million or 79 million were scared into voting"

 

Nobody believes that, and it was not suggested either. You do this time and time again, claiming something was said when all it is is bad reading on your part. And when one of your arguments is again refuted you just ignore it.

 

There is no way a reasonable discussion can be had this way.

In post 342 it was said people were scared into voting. So nobody believes that? if that is the case I agree.

[jpinx]

Meantime - -I hope everyone reads this ....

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/567516/Grounds_of_Appeal_to_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_Secretary_of_State_for_Exiting_the_European_Union.pdf

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

In post 342 it was said people were scared into voting. So nobody believes that? if that is the case I agree.

Now read it again, slowly, and try to understand what exactly was said.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I do not believe 60 million or 79 million were scared into voting either way which is being suggested. Give the people credit. They make informed choices and certainly not from just one idea or suggestion.

 

Do you even think about what you write before you post it? There are not 60, let alone 79 million voters in the UK but the post you are responding to is clear: one of Farage's many lies was to say that up to 79 million Turks would be admitted to the EU. 

[Laughing Gravy]

44 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Do you even think about what you write before you post it? There are not 60, let alone 79 million voters in the UK but the post you are responding to is clear: one of Farage's many lies was to say that up to 79 million Turks would be admitted to the EU. 

Yes I do and for the last time. Are you saying people were scared into voting leave because of this. Simple.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes I do and for the last time. Are you saying people were scared into voting leave because of this. Simple.

 

As with you, I cannot have any way of knowing the myriad factors that influenced people, but as fear of immigration was one of the main sticks that UKIP and their friends, the EDL, used daily, and the NHS lie was seized on with much enthusiasm by the media and social networks as being fact, it is only the utterly naive or pigheaded who refuse to accept that these both contributed immensely to the success of the Brexit vote. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Well we agree that nobody has a way of knowing. I can only comment on myself and friends what they have told me, which I have mentioned before. I think we should leave this point at that then. I am certainly not one of those people who was influenced at all, by any of the leave or remains arguments.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

As with you, I cannot have any way of knowing the myriad factors that influenced people, but as fear of immigration was one of the main sticks that UKIP and their friends, the EDL, used daily, and the NHS lie was seized on with much enthusiasm by the media and social networks as being fact, it is only the utterly naive or pigheaded who refuse to accept that these both contributed immensely to the success of the Brexit vote. 

I agree that many people have seen how the uncontrolled immigration of poor, EU workers has affected their lives and salaries/wages - and this affected the way they voted.

 

There's no way to know, but I suspect that ordinary voters were also fed-up with the lies/propaganda from both sides.  I'd like to think that Osborne's promised 'punishment budget' lie was the final straw, but again there's no way to know.

 

Yes, some may have believed that the full amount paid to the EU would be re-directed to the NHS - but I doubt it as its become increasingly obvious over the last few decades that election promises are best ignored as the government will spend/waste taxpayer money on things that benefit them/their friends and their future prospects.  Certainly not things that will benefit the electorate.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

I can understand your viewpoint, it is not in brexit camps interest to acknowledge anything said by a Scottish minister as the view of the Scottish people does count for anything, despite what David Cameron said to them. You obviously believe that there was no majority in Scotland for her view.

 

There were 2,679,513 votes cast (not including rejected ballots) in Scotland. There were 1,661,191 for Remain, exactly 62% of the votes cast.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36614284

 

 So you are saying that 600,000 more people voted to remain then go for separation, while I said the figure was just 400,000.    O.K. If you insist I'll concede on this number.

 

   

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Read it again.

"Exactly, Nigel Farage in particular scared people into believing that 60 million Turks were about to invade the UK."

 

And I repeat what I said in a previous post.

" Do you really believe that if Nigel Farage says that 79 million may get visa free access by the end of the year, nobody is going to take it on board. Scaremongering at its worst. "

 

I do remember in 2013 Nigel Farage saying that 20 million Romaiians would be ELIGABLE to enter the UK after 2014. This was quickly twisted by the Remain camp into him saying that 20 million Romainians WOULD enter the U.K.  They then went on to estimate that only a few thousand would actually come.  Now in 2016 the estimated  number of Romainians in the UK is OVER 200,000.

 

   Nigel Farage also said the E.U. Planned to create an E.U. Army. Again this was denied by Cameron and the Remain group. Accusing him of blatant scaremongering. Unfortunately they forgot to ask Junker.

Now ask yourself, if the UK had voted to remain in this dictatorial and corrupt so called Union,what would they call the men who would have to fight on behalf of the E.U.  TOMMY.

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by nontabury

[Donutz]

Why would any sensable person even mention Turkey in athe Brexit debate? Cameron's (complete) quote is simply the truth and even pro EU, pro extending the union supporters will acknowledge that Turkey has only been moving away from the EU in the last years, drifting it away further then ever to meet the required demands for membership. Even visa free travel to the Schengen area became more unlikely due to the mess happening in Turkey right now that goes against everything Europe stands for. 

 

The EU has many plans down the road but making any of those happen is often a tedious task, getting all memberstates to come to an agreement often isn't easy. Hell, I'm following the talks of updated Schengen visa rules and that is already taking a couple of years now since various members want entirely different things and simply find it hard to come up with the 'least worst' consensus which they all can live with.  So things lke an EU  Army are even further away from seeing the day of light.

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Donutz said:

Why would any sensable person even mention Turkey in athe Brexit debate? Cameron's (complete) quote is simply the truth and even pro EU, pro extending the union supporters will acknowledge that Turkey has only been moving away from the EU in the last years, drifting it away further then ever to meet the required demands for membership. Even visa free travel to the Schengen area became more unlikely due to the mess happening in Turkey right now that goes against everything Europe stands for. 

 

The EU has many plans down the road but making any of those happen is often a tedious task, getting all memberstates to come to an agreement often isn't easy. Hell, I'm following the talks of updated Schengen visa rules and that is already taking a couple of years now since various members want entirely different things and simply find it hard to come up with the 'least worst' consensus which they all can live with.  So things lke an EU  Army are even further away from seeing the day of light.

Arron Banks commissioned a poll which suggested that 25% of people who intended to vote remain would vote leave if Turkey became a member

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

Arron Banks commissioned a poll which suggested that 25% of people who intended to vote remain would vote leave if Turkey became a member

 

A mentor once suggested I solve a particular problem thus: "offer them every assistance short of actual help".

 

Fools don't understand diplomacy or cross cultural skills!

 

There was NEVER a chance that Turkey would be allowed to join the EU.

 

If the Turks thought otherwise, it's a result of great diplomatic skills.

 

Too subtle for numpties!

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

Arron Banks commissioned a poll which suggested that 25% of people who intended to vote remain would vote leave if Turkey became a member

 

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

A mentor once suggested I solve a particular problem thus: "offer them every assistance short of actual help".

 

Fools don't understand diplomacy or cross cultural skills!

 

There was NEVER a chance that Turkey would be allowed to join the EU.

 

If the Turks thought otherwise, it's a result of great diplomatic skills.

 

Too subtle for numpties!

Yet it is the remain accused of scaremongering

[Donutz]

Such thins like Turkey joining or an EU army simply won't happen, cannot happen, unless all member states agree. In which case you'd need to direct curses or blessings towards your own parlaiment/government. So rather than fearing 'Brussels'  it's best to keep an eye on national parlaiments and giving them the middle finger if they seem to be about to do something aweful. It's those in Westminster and such that one might wish to fear.

[gmac]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

As with you, I cannot have any way of knowing the myriad factors that influenced people, but as fear of immigration was one of the main sticks that UKIP and their friends, the EDL, used daily, and the NHS lie was seized on with much enthusiasm by the media and social networks as being fact, it is only the utterly naive or pigheaded who refuse to accept that these both contributed immensely to the success of the Brexit vote. 

 

Having lived too long in Thailand I was unable to vote but tried in vain to glean what was happening from the garbage distributed by both sides in the media.  I paid scant attention to claims about the NHS but from personal experience on visits home was aware of the massive amount of Eastern European immigration that has taken place.  Try getting served by an English person in any hotel, car rental company or restaurant and you start to see just how many jobs have been taken over by immigrants.

 

The worst aspect of the campaign was the failure by the Government to provide any useful information stressing the benefits of remaining and instead relying on fear tactics.  This as much as anything persuaded me that they had nothing good to say about it thus would have made me opt for Brexit to support my own belief that the UK should rule itself and not be governed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.  Maybe others felt the same way.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

6 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Arron Banks commissioned a poll which suggested that 25% of people who intended to vote remain would vote leave if Turkey became a member

Thank You. Tom and Jerry also commissioned a poll, that those that voted remain and in the US election can't accept the will of the people and they still consistently complain, that their democratic rights have been taken away. Either way Tweety Pie has told them to stop complaining and start understanding that the political movement is changing. If not you will end up looking like Mr. Magoo who has not seen the will of the people and the change of the political class.

[Loeilad]

Personally, I think Brexit should be scrapped and anything that helps towards that is a "good thing".

I think that there are a lot of people who don't understand what the EU is about and prefer to think in terms of conspiracy theories....without actually looking into the practicality of those theories.

 

anyway here's a few words from Churchill (not a hero of mine, but a guy who recognised an good thing when he saw it)...

 

We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times, a Europe in which men will be proud to say:

"I am a European".

We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any of their love and loyalty of their birthplace. 

We hope wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European Continent, they will truly feel:

"Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too".

 

let's not allow Brexit to destroy that.

[stevenl]

Thank You. Tom and Jerry also commissioned a poll, that those that voted remain and in the US election can't accept the will of the people and they still consistently complain, that their democratic rights have been taken away. Either way Tweety Pie has told them to stop complaining and start understanding that the political movement is changing. If not you will end up looking like Mr. Magoo who has not seen the will of the people and the change of the political class.

You really have not understood one single thing in this discussion.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Loeilad]

6 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Arron Banks commissioned a poll which suggested that 25% of people who intended to vote remain would vote leave if Turkey became a member

Aaron Banks!?!?!? - I always think it is best to criticise the message rather than the messenger, but Aaron is no messenger he WRITES the message - in whatever way he can, so to take a poll commissioned by him would be like taking a poll on anti-semitism sponsored by Goebbels

 

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, stevenl said:

You really have not understood one single thing in this discussion.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

So you have. Did you vote to remain or leave.? Are you going to get an EU passport?

[Loeilad]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

So you have. Did you vote to remain or leave.? Are you going to get an EU passport?

What a peculiar response....... does it connect to the quote? If so how?

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, Loeilad said:

What a peculiar response....... does it connect to the quote? If so how?

Does it have to?  Very few do

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, Loeilad said:

Personally, I think Brexit should be scrapped and anything that helps towards that is a "good thing".

I think that there are a lot of people who don't understand what the EU is about and prefer to think in terms of conspiracy theories....without actually looking into the practicality of those theories.

 

anyway here's a few words from Churchill (not a hero of mine, but a guy who recognised an good thing when he saw it)...

 

We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times, a Europe in which men will be proud to say:

"I am a European".

We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any of their love and loyalty of their birthplace. 

We hope wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European Continent, they will truly feel:

"Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too".

 

let's not allow Brexit to destroy that.

You quote Churchill as an example of being a Europhile. How funny. Yes Churchill believed in a Europe that was friends but not wrapped up in its federalisazion and control. If you think that go and read the history of Winston, C

Personally I think the EU should be scrapped but I am going to have to wait to a few other countries do it, even though the UK was the catalyst

Citizen of what country. Europe is  not a country. It is a continent.. Hilarious.

[jpinx]

It'll all be academic soon -- there won't be an EU when Italy, Austria and Netherlands have left and France and Germany have elected new leaders next year.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

It'll all be academic soon -- there won't be an EU when Italy, Austria and Netherlands have left and France and Germany have elected new leaders next year.

[jpinx]

Zzexit is the mode nowadays - even california is talking about becoming an independent country -- it does have the advantage of having the 6th largest economy in the world - apparently.