Change to retire extension rules 2016 ?

[connda]

Nowadays I just take a box of pictures (home, outside, inside, family, ordination, at the wat, at village event, etc) and let them pick and choose what they want.  Last year they didn't want the outside picture, did want an inside picture, and took a picture of my extended family at a restaurant.  My rule of thumb?  Take everything but the kitchen sink and let them pick and choose.  Seems to work pretty well.

Edited November 18, 2016 by connda

[joskeshake]

5 hours ago, poohy said:

15 k at my local "agent"...... worth every baht

yep Pattaya first time 19.5,

second time 11.5

[Felt 35]

2 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

I've had the signature verification done already at the MFA as I had to go there for another purpose...you go upstairs and queue up and wait for them to call yer number... then you submit yer document for signature verification, pay and take yer receipt and then must return 3 WORKING DAYS LATER to collect your document...I had the misfortune of submitting my document on a Friday...

 

'fairness' and 'thainess' as demonstrated by this indefensible waste of peoples time you shall find are mutually exclusive...if it were otherwise then the rogue IOs that insist upon this farcical exercise would be down the market selling bbq chicken out of a handcart where they belong...

 

 

 

 

 

So retired foreigners either they live in Chiang Saen or Sadao will herafter have to que up in Bangkok annually for an exstra stamp...

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

So retired foreigners either they live in Chiang Saen or Sadao will herafter have to que up in Bangkok annually for an exstra stamp...

Not at this time. Only 4 offices near Bangkok are asking for it.

[tutsiwarrior]

1 minute ago, Felt 35 said:

 

So retired foreigners either they live in Chiang Saen or Sadao will herafter have to que up in Bangkok annually for an exstra stamp...

 

dunno...there's only one MFA and that's at Chaeng Wattana in BKK, I believe...

 

 

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

It does seem that in some Immigration Offices, there are new hurdles to cross each time you go and often you only learn about them when you get there. If a letter proving income (based on documentation presented) is obtained from the applicant country's Embassy, what possible purpose is served by having to send that letter to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?   It just seems that there are some people working in these offices who do not really want us here, despite all the protestations by TAT and are doing their best to make life as difficult as possible.

 

I know that some posters on here will tell us that if we do not like the system we should go back home (presumably abandoning all assets and family here), but I am merely highlighting the fact that regulations and conditions for expats are changing bit by bit in a way which makes us feel much less welcome.  The MFA requirement, the 90 day reporting requirement with the online promise not working for many of us after nearly two years, the Personal Information form, and the need now in my case to travel to Phetchaburi to do my 90 day report instead of doing it in the nearby Hua Hin office are just a few examples. 

 

I now await a poster telling me to go home after 14 years here as I am apparently a typical  "farang whinger" in his eyes. Pre-empting that, I will say that overall I am happy here, but that does not mean that I cannot have an opinion on certain matters, even though  criticism of any kind does tend to be frowned upon.

I agree with every word you say, and yes, there are still some Thaivisa posters who are members of the "if you don't like it go home" brigade. Thankfully, they are in a minority.

[OJAS]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They already have the info for every consular officer that is sent to them by an embassy or consulate. They just have to compare the two signatures, stamps and etc.

But, if your income confirmation letter/affidavit is signed by a new consular official whom your Embassy have not yet got round to notifying to the MFA when you take it along there for verification, you will, of course, find yourself in deep doo-dah!

Edited November 19, 2016 by OJAS

[SaintLouisBlues]

19 hours ago, Dan5 said:

If its not a verification of the letter, what is it a verification of? And what do you have to provide them to get it?

It's a verification of the signature on the letter; it's not a verification of the contents of the letter ie. your income statement

[NanLaew]

On 11/17/2016 at 4:42 PM, Felt 35 said:

 

So in other words, the Thai government, question the validity of a foreign diplomat's signature and are now demanding that the recipient of a letter issued by their country's embassy now is being verified by Thailand's own Ministry of Foreign affairs....right.

 

On 11/17/2016 at 9:24 PM, tutsiwarrior said:

 

nah...it's not the thai gov't...it's some misbehaving local IOs that are causing massive inconvenience and don't care...

 

no doubt the TVF apologist brigade will be along soon: 'it's their right!...it's their right!...you are a guest in their country and it's their right!'

 

bosh...

 

 

Since it is a confirmation of a signature and thus a check on the authenticity of the document, we may also consider that somewhere in the past,  applicant(s) living in the area of the three IO jurisdictions requesting this additional verification have considered saving 3500 baht and either copied or forged a letter and submitted it with an application.

 

The Proconsul at the British Embassy has changed at some point in the past 18 months. The Proconsul is also a Thai national.

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, joskeshake said:

and how they can explain, when go some office soi buakao in Pattaya can have retirement visa without any papers at all, if you pay 19.500 baht

If by 'they' you are referring to the Jomtien IO, they have absolutely nothing to explain. The 'office on soi buakao' may have some explaining to do though if/when things go pear-shaped..

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, poohy said:

15 k at my local "agent"...... worth every baht

 

14 hours ago, joskeshake said:

yep Pattaya first time 19.5,

second time 11.5

Pi$$ing contest alert...

[pommy pete]

I did my retirement extension in A put ( Mat Aput ) yesterday, no letter from bank asked for, just Australian embassy income confirmation letter and I handed in my bank books updated on the day. I was 8 days late due to sickness and had to pay a 4000 bt fine other than filling in forms and supplying photo all went well. Was not asked to fill the personal details form that was about a month ago. A friend who was there at the same time was trying to get his first retirement visa and was told he had to get his income letter translated into Thai and stamped at the Immigration in Bangkok, they told him this was a new order.    

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, pommy pete said:

A friend who was there at the same time was trying to get his first retirement visa and was told he had to get his income letter translated into Thai and stamped at the Immigration in Bangkok, they told him this was a new order.    

If his letter was not in English that would be standard procedure to have it translated. The translation would have be certified by the department of consular affairs not immigration in Bangkok.

[wgdanson]

Anybody any news from Phitsanulok Immigrtion, I am there next week with Consular letter etc. Do I need it translating and photos?

Edited November 19, 2016 by wgdanson

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Anybody any news from Phitsanulok Immigrtion, I am there next week with Consular letter etc. Do I need it translating and photos?

No reports for that office.

If your proof of income is in English it should not need to be translated. I only know of one office that has wanted one in English to be translated.

[tutsiwarrior]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Since it is a confirmation of a signature and thus a check on the authenticity of the document, we may also consider that somewhere in the past,  applicant(s) living in the area of the three IO jurisdictions requesting this additional verification have considered saving 3500 baht and either copied or forged a letter and submitted it with an application.

 

 

a forgery from the US Embassy is not likely as these documents have an embossed embassy seal...besides, I'd hate to think what would happen to the applicant if he was caught out with a forgery which seems a lot to risk to save the cost of the income letter...

 

 

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

a forgery from the US Embassy is not likely as these documents have an embossed embassy seal...besides, I'd hate to think what would happen to the applicant if he was caught out with a forgery which seems a lot to risk to save the cost of the income letter...

 

 

The British one also has an embossed seal..............but I bet they will want a copy of it.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

a forgery from the US Embassy is not likely as these documents have an embossed embassy seal...besides, I'd hate to think what would happen to the applicant if he was caught out with a forgery which seems a lot to risk to save the cost of the income letter...

 

 

As mentioned earlier, the 'income letter' from the British Embassy is similarly embossed...  so not really high-tech these days.

 

The US Embassy 'income letter' although much easier to acquire as it requires no additional provenance, it does attract federal perjury penalties if the applicant is making a false statement to get one. I seriously doubt the IO would be worried about the veracity of that document but I think there have been reports of some IO's requesting the provenance (such as bank statements) that confirms the US 'income letter' despite the assurances that no US citizen would perjure himself to stay in LOS if he was broke.

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, pommy pete said:

I did my retirement extension in A put ( Mat Aput ) yesterday, no letter from bank asked for, just Australian embassy income confirmation letter and I handed in my bank books updated on the day. I was 8 days late due to sickness and had to pay a 4000 bt fine other than filling in forms and supplying photo all went well. Was not asked to fill the personal details form that was about a month ago. A friend who was there at the same time was trying to get his first retirement visa and was told he had to get his income letter translated into Thai and stamped at the Immigration in Bangkok, they told him this was a new order.    

 

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If his letter was not in English that would be standard procedure to have it translated. The translation would have be certified by the department of consular affairs not immigration in Bangkok.

 

Or may be he was seeking a non-O conversion, which, if my understanding of post #37 of this thread on the Eastern Thailand forum is correct, Maptaput can, in common with Jomtien, deal with themselves:-

If this is, indeed, the case, it would not surprise me in the slightest if Maptaput, like Jomtien, require Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits in support of non-O conversion applications to be verified by the MFA, while not being needed in the case of letters/affidavits supporting annual retirement extensions.

 

 

 

[mercman24]

so in other words the official Thai immigration web site listing the requirements for an extension is not worth a toss. isn't it about time someone , queried the discrepancies. some little jumped up jerk in immigration making up his own rules

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

so in other words the official Thai immigration web site listing the requirements for an extension is not worth a toss. isn't it about time someone , queried the discrepancies. some little jumped up jerk in immigration making up his own rules

You first...

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

so in other words the official Thai immigration web site listing the requirements for an extension is not worth a toss. isn't it about time someone , queried the discrepancies. some little jumped up jerk in immigration making up his own rules

Not sure which website you have looked at. This site does not list them. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php

The Bangkok immigration does list them but they are only for division one immigration. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service  (note you need IE to read them)

[tutsiwarrior]

is there any benefit from calling 1111 or 1178 and reporting irregularities at individual immigration offices?

[carlyai]

and how they can explain, when go some office soi buakao in Pattaya can have retirement visa without any papers at all, if you pay 19.500 baht

It's called 'a special case', and Pattaya can do special cases.

I was up country in Isaan and the local immigration said that one of my choices was to go to Pattaya as they can perform 'special cases', but the local mob cannot.

Think it's pretty well known and must be somehow legal.

Don't knock it.


Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[evadgib]

On 11/18/2016 at 9:05 AM, Emster23 said:

As part of decentralization and meeting unique needs at each office of immigration, they can require any darn thing they want.

 

....but wouldn't it be easier if one set of rules were set a ministerial level and applied nationwide instead of the unnecessary and wholly avoidable inconsistencies we read about each week?

[evadgib]

15 hours ago, OJAS said:

But, if your income confirmation letter/affidavit is signed by a new consular official whom your Embassy have not yet got round to notifying to the MFA when you take it along there for verification, you will, of course, find yourself in deep doo-dah!

 

Do you really think they'd start one without first applying the appropriate formalities?

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, evadgib said:

 

....but wouldn't it be easier if one set of rules were set a ministerial level and applied nationwide instead of the unnecessary and wholly avoidable inconsistencies we read about each week?

The rules as posted are already set at ministerial level for nationwide use... just nobody bothers to audit the 'local branches' who will always find a way to make a fast baht. If there's no mention in the rules and regulations that specifically prohibit making up local rules or adapting the existing ones, they can and will do it. 

 

Thailand is a land of laws and regulations that lack enforcement and oversight.

[OJAS]

13 hours ago, evadgib said:

 

Do you really think they'd start one without first applying the appropriate formalities?

One would hope not, but can you ever eliminate the human factor?

[Felt 35]

I’m sorry but I don’t believe in this “signature verification” as reason for this new rule. Thailand will avoid making the foreign diplomat corps feel blamed for all costs.

At first I focused too much on the matter and too little on the cause, background, not to forget the usual approach here to avoid confrontation whether it’s between local individuals, or rule/law change which affect a broader public and most likely would be broadcasted abroad () if it affect potential foreign retirees, because on the opposite side we have the ongoing, nearly daily propaganda “we will make Thailand a health hub and retirement paradise”.

So instead we get uncertainty and sometimes frustration for those affected every time it’s a change of law because its most of the time not a law.  Last year come the new info form to be filled, about your dead ancestors, family, dogs and vehicles. Then portrait of you outside your tent and now more paperwork and an annual Bangkok verification holiday!

This is the silent introduction of coming rules / law and it’s of course about money. And foreign retirees will quicly be tired of annual Bangkok trips from Nakon nowwhere so will soon put up and set the money in a Thai Bank or leave. So I expect to see a law soon Thb 8xx xxx,- or most likely more must be in the bank for all. No income proof will be actual anymore and in their eyes probably a worthless paper with a diplomat's signature.

Why and what it mean. Money in Bank they can lay a hand on / use as guaranty, for this and that, unfortunately it also means that the xenophobia are fed to well here now.

[NanLaew]

 

16 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

I’m sorry but I don’t believe in this “signature verification” as reason for this new rule. Thailand will avoid making the foreign diplomat corps feel blamed for all costs.

At first I focused too much on the matter and too little on the cause, background, not to forget the usual approach here to avoid confrontation whether it’s between local individuals, or rule/law change which affect a broader public and most likely would be broadcasted abroad () if it affect potential foreign retirees, because on the opposite side we have the ongoing, nearly daily propaganda “we will make Thailand a health hub and retirement paradise”.

So instead we get uncertainty and sometimes frustration for those affected every time it’s a change of law because its most of the time not a law.  Last year come the new info form to be filled, about your dead ancestors, family, dogs and vehicles. Then portrait of you outside your tent and now more paperwork and an annual Bangkok verification holiday!

This is the silent introduction of coming rules / law and it’s of course about money. And foreign retirees will quicly be tired of annual Bangkok trips from Nakon nowwhere so will soon put up and set the money in a Thai Bank or leave. So I expect to see a law soon Thb 8xx xxx,- or most likely more must be in the bank for all. No income proof will be actual anymore and in their eyes probably a worthless paper with a diplomat's signature.

Why and what it mean. Money in Bank they can lay a hand on / use as guaranty, for this and that, unfortunately it also means that the xenophobia are fed to well here now.

That's a bit of a stretch when you consider the following.

 

On 11/18/2016 at 5:40 PM, ubonjoe said:

Not at this time. Only 4 offices near Bangkok are asking for it.