conventional vs synthetic oil for car, which is better?

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Yeah synth is over kill, I just use straight 50 weight conventional is all my vehicles now, the camry does not seem to like it though.

 

Not really overkill imho of the manufacturer recommends it, and you get double the mileage out of it before a service is necessary. But yeah pouring the 'expensive stuff' in an oldish car is overkill. 

 

Whats the Camry doing on the 50 weight? Valve train clatter or bit of smoke? 

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Not really overkill imho of the manufacturer recommends it, and you get double the mileage out of it before a service is necessary. But yeah pouring the 'expensive stuff' in an oldish car is overkill. 

 

Whats the Camry doing on the 50 weight? Valve train clatter or bit of smoke? 

 

 

Am taking the piss, I only use what is recommended by the manufacturer as I see no need to use my vehicles as chemistry experiments by trying to cheap out on oil.

 

If one cannot afford the recommended oil in their ride every 10,000km then maybe they should consider selling it.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Don Mega

[Strange]

9 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Am taking the piss, I only use what is recommended by the manufacturer as I see no need to use my vehicles as chemistry experiments by trying to cheap out on oil, If one cannot afford the recommended oil in their ride every 10,000km then maybe they should consider selling it.

 

lmao I was wondering what you were on about. 

 

Agreed. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Strange

[madmax2]

I change the oil in the ranger every 10K instead of the recommended 15K

If i go over 10K between changes the engine rattles more when you start

from cold until it warms up

8 litres of the recommended oil from ford costs 2200 baht, so it costs

3 to 4 times as much as mineral oil, oil is cheap, major engine repairs are not

[transam]

My 700hp ride (N2O) I had for twenty odd years was brought up on mineral oil, but USA mineral oil. I did have occasional possible oil related engine problems, when l changed to syn, no problems..Coincidence, perhaps... 

[madmax2]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

My 700hp ride (N2O) I had for twenty odd years was brought up on mineral oil, but USA mineral oil. I did have occasional possible oil related engine problems, when l changed to syn, no problems..Coincidence, perhaps... 

Always did my own oil changes on cars , trucks and tractor loaders before i cam to Thailand always used regular oil at the recommended oil change periods and never had a problem caused by using it, but the maximum change period was 5000 klm then

[Strange]

Back when I was like 14 years old - my first car was a 302" 5L V8 Mustang with a carb and about 180K Miles. Ran good, didn't consume oil, didn't smoke. Ran 10w-30 Conventional oil in it. Synthetics were becoming popular and before I really knew anything I decided to get myself some "Extra HP and Protection" and swapped to a full synthetic 10w-30. 

 

Well, that was a mistake. White smoke on startup, white smoke at WOT, and it started to spring leaks. Rear main seal, valve cover gaskets... Not bad leaks, but I went from no oil consumption to a quart or so in 1k miles with drops of oil on the ground after being parked overnight. 

 

Changed back to conventional and the problems went away. This was about 19 years ago and Synthetics have come a long way, but I still hold the opinion that synthetics have their place - and its not in the crankcase of an old engine. 

[Shiver]

18 hours ago, Strange said:

 

How old was the car? Fuel Injected or Carburetor? 

 

How are you seeing mineral oil break down? 

 

Carburettor.  Oil had lots of carbon deposits of course, but the oil got to be almost watery thin as well (on the dipstick).

[Edit]:  The cars I'm thinking of were Ford from the 79 to 82 era, so at that time maybe 5-7 years old.  They never saw synthetic btw, as it was a good chunk of my weekly wage back then.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Shiver

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, Shiver said:

Carburettor.  Oil had lots of carbon deposits of course, but the oil got to be almost watery thin as well (on the dipstick).

 

Yeah thats not the oils fault thats straight up fuel contamination and it would happen with a synthetic just the same. Either due to a pig rich carb or old ring seal or a combination of both. You can't blame the oil for doing its job, and a major part of that job is absorbing fuel contamination and retaining lubrication properties. 

[ClutchClark]

2 hours ago, Don Mega said:

 

 

Yeah synth is over kill, I just use straight 50 weight conventional is all my vehicles now, the camry does not seem to like it though.

 

If you were just joking then sorry I missed it but if this was not just for humor it should have been. 

 

Unless your daily driver is an old Massey Ferguson tractor  

[ClutchClark]

13 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Yeah thats not the oils fault thats straight up fuel contamination and it would happen with a synthetic just the same. Either due to a pig rich carb or old ring seal or a combination of both. You can't blame the oil for doing its job, and a major part of that job is absorbing fuel contamination and retaining lubrication properties. 

 

All good advice. 

 

Interestingly. a modern multi-viscosity can also become watery if its left in too long. 

 

Often the newer oils with a very wide viscosity range (10W-40, 0W-30, even 15W-40) are a thin base stock oil with viscosity improvers that thicken it to have characteristics of the heavier grade its also rated for.  As the oil additives are depleted by use, the oil reverts back to the viscosity of its feed stock. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don Mega]

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

 

All good advice. 

 

Interestingly. a modern multi-viscosity can also become watery if its left in too long. 

 

Often the newer oils with a very wide viscosity range (10W-40, 0W-30, even 15W-40) are a thin base stock oil with viscosity improvers that thicken it to have characteristics of the heavier grade its also rated for.  As the oil additives are depleted by use, the oil reverts back to the viscosity of its feed stock. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a climate like Thailand multi grade oils are not needed, is full synth mongrade available ?

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

 

All good advice. 

 

Interestingly. a modern multi-viscosity can also become watery if its left in too long. 

 

Often the newer oils with a very wide viscosity range (10W-40, 0W-30, even 15W-40) are a thin base stock oil with viscosity improvers that thicken it to have characteristics of the heavier grade its also rated for.  As the oil additives are depleted by use, the oil reverts back to the viscosity of its feed stock. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used Mobil 1 10-60 syn in my fun ride, it loved it after warm up and cured idle psi..

[Don Mega]

Just now, transam said:

I used Mobil 1 10-60 syn in my fun ride, it loved it after warm up and cured idle psi..

 

 

Thats a thick oil, did the engine have sloppy tolerances ?

[Sooo Upto Me]

19 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Not in the Everest, Ranger,  Fiesta EcoBoost or Focus my friend ... Hope ur taking this onboard ☺

 

I'm not talking bout cheap vehicles my friend. Hope ur taking this on board ?

[ClutchClark]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

I used Mobil 1 10-60 syn in my fun ride, it loved it after warm up and cured idle psi..

 

Mobil-One is sure some of the best but that is one heckuva viscosity range, eh? 

 

I thought 15-50 for motorcycles was pushing it 

 

The TVF  motor forum is challenging for me because I have to always remember the Thai climate never experiences the sub-zero temps AND American motor oils are not found in LOS. Most of their brands are found in Europe though, correct? 

 

We have a great peoduct by Shell called Rotella. Is it found in LOS?

Edited November 20, 2016 by ClutchClark

[transam]

1 minute ago, Don Mega said:

 

 

Thats a thick oil, did the engine have sloppy tolerances ?

The alloy rods needed a bigger journal clearance, plus I removed the lifter oil gallery plugs and tapped for screw in NPT plugs with a weee hole in to spray oil on the chain. When the engine was over 1000rom oil pressure was fine, but idle was too low, well I thought it was..Fooled with the pump and used 10-60. From cold the pressure was way to high but after a couple of minutes it all sorted itself out...

[ClutchClark]

5 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

 

In a climate like Thailand multi grade oils are not needed, is full synth mongrade available ?

 

 

I have never seen a full synthetic monograde before in the US.

 

We can still find a straight 30W Conventional Oil at Farm Supply stores for our old antique tractors but thats it.

 

Its an interesting question though since synthetic oil has molecules of equal size vs conventional which have varying sizes. I am sure they could make a monograde but maybe the intended market would be too small for profitability? 

 

A heavy diesel generator in an climate-controlled environment that is only shut down for oil changes would be an application I could see a synthetic monograde being useful. It would cut down on operating costs with its ability to offer extended oil drain intervals. 

 

Hmmm.

[Don Mega]

Just now, transam said:

The alloy rods needed a bigger journal clearance, plus I removed the lifter oil gallery plugs and tapped for screw in NPT plugs with a weee hole in to spray oil on the chain. When the engine was over 1000rom oil pressure was fine, but idle was too low, well I thought it was..Fooled with the pump and used 10-60. From cold the pressure was way to high but after a couple of minutes it all sorted itself out...

 

Fair enough.

[ClutchClark]

In the US, full synthetic monogrades are actuslly offered by small high-end oil manufacturers like Royal Purple (30W, 40W, 50W) and Amsoil (40W).  These would be for performance cars & trucks I am guessing and too cost-prohibitive for Industrial applications.

 

ofcourse Don Mega would love the Royal Purple 50W. 

 

Didn't know that until google a minute ago. 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Strange]

27 minutes ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

I'm not talking bout cheap vehicles my friend. Hope ur taking this on board ?

 

Good to know you are just trolling. Benz, Audi, etc.... Are gonna be using the same standards and the Fords, Toyotas, etc... 

[Strange]

29 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

We have a great peoduct by Shell called Rotella. Is it found in LOS?

 

Lol maybe if you are a 7.3 guy with a tractor and buying it by the 55 Gallon drum 

[canthai55]

Rotella is Superseded here by Helix. I run it in my HD. Check the Website - available in CNX

[ClutchClark]

20 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Lol maybe if you are a 7.3 guy with a tractor and buying it by the 55 Gallon drum 

 

Am I that easily pigeon-holed? 

 

I can deny neither of the above except to say I have made the switch to Rotella-T6 full synthetic for my newer machinery. The Ford/IH 7.3 diesel is still considered "newer", right ?

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

Am I that easily pigeon-holed? 

 

I can deny neither of the above except to say I have made the switch to Rotella-T6 full synthetic for my newer machinery. The 7.3 is still considered "newer", right ?

 

lmao not usually, but the Massey Ferguson tractor gave you away 

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

I'm not talking bout cheap vehicles my friend. Hope ur taking this on board ?

My 520d also used a fully synthetic ...after a service it showed the next change at +30,000Kms. 

 

I will be posting a topic in this forum in the next couple of days or so but I look forward to your imput ... ☺

 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by JAS21

[Lokie]

20 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Dot 5 is NOT interchangeable with Dot 4. 

 

Dot 5 is silicone based. The others are polyethylene glycol based. 

 

Dot 5 is not compatible with Anti-Lock Brake systems.

 

Sort of negates the rest of your argument? 

Not 'my' argument? I said 'The' argument (discussion/questions) people ask about oils and brake fluid in general. You have confirmed everything I stated in my post above and correctly show the difference with brake fluid classes. I was in a parts shop last week and some guy was about to spend extra on Dot 5 fluid to put in a bog standard Volkswagen Golf, told him to check his manual as he most probably only needed Dot 4 for that car (this was half the price of the Dot 5 in that store)

 

A lot of people do not know the difference with oils or Brake fluids hence the OP  

 

Just now read rest of posts and agree, Re the Thai climate etc, I am really thinking UK standards/climate - someone mentioned Shell Helix which is a great value good quality oil for most average cars in UK at 5w-30 visc I recently had a Merc CLS and the oil for that was an arm and a leg??? Now running a little Ford Focus just as a driver when back in UK and is cheap as chips with the Shell Helix above 5w -30

Edited November 20, 2016 by Lokie

[Suitcase]

  Been using Amsoil sysnthitic for over 15 yrs now.

Put it in a Dodge Dakota pickup with a 318 cu in engine with 185,000 on it.

Was using a quart of 15W40 conventional oil per 5000 mi oil change.

Was using a good brand like Castrol, Vavoline, Union 76.

  Now at 219,000 miles the film strength is so tough that the motor

uses no oil between a 24 month oil change using the 0W30 weight.

Also using synthetic in the trans and rear end.

  I also use it in my Lincoln car and three Harley motorcycles.

With only putting 1500 miles on each vehicle I do oil changes at

24 month intervals.

In the motorcycles they run up to 50 degrees cooler.

   One must remember a semi-synthetic is only about 25% synthetic and 75% oil.

It is not 50/50!

To each his own as to using semi or 100%.

For more info one can go to the Amsoil website and ask their technicians 

any questions one might have.

[questionsreplies]

Bmw now changes oil every 25000kms, benz still 10000 but both use synthetic, i wonder why ? but service being free at bmw during 5 years, ir might be the reason...

[JaseTheBass]

Rotella is Superseded here by Helix. I run it in my HD. Check the Website - available in CNX

I thought you're supposed to use 30W tractor oil in one of those things?