Entering thailand without tourist visa

[thaidelight]

Ubonjoe or any other kind thai visa member..can you help me with this? I am unable to obtain a single entry 60 day visa from any European thai embassy or consulate as I dont live here..just travelling and staying in France at present. Have ticket to Thailand 6th Jan. Want to stay 60 days now...then plan to travel around Asia and Oz and return to pick up flight from Bkk in May.

My query is will i need to show a flight out of thailand after 30 days or can i buy a ticket for flight out after 60 days (30 days plus 30 day extension)? I dont want to be refused boarding at Helsinki where I will board flight to Bkk if I dont have onward ticket. Or is that not a problem to board without onward ticket? Thanks for any advice...i used to have retirement visa so am not used to all these visa rules!! 

[ubonjoe]

You may asked for a onward flight within 30 days of arrival to board your flight. To overcome that you could buy a low cost one way ticket to a nearby country.

[MalandLee]

You can use this site :- https://flyonward.com/en/ to give yourself piece of mind

[elviajero]

It depends on the airline you are flying with whether or not you'll need a valid onward flight, and whether they'll accept one dated 60 days after arrival.

 

None, requiring a booked flight, would accept a rented ticket as recommended by @MalandLee if they knew it was invalid.

[elviajero]

51 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

You can use this site :- https://flyonward.com/en/ to give yourself piece of mind

How does providing a fraudulent ticket give someone peace of mind!

[MalandLee]

I did not suggest he buy fraudulent ticket. I suggested he buy a ticket from  https://flyonward.com/en/

If you are trying to bait me to call you a clown it will not work

 

 

[darrendsd]

58 minutes ago, elviajero said:

How does providing a fraudulent ticket give someone peace of mind!

 

What's fraudulent about it? It's a valid legitimate ticket and is accepted by Immigration as proof of onward travel, whether the buyer chooses to use that ticket or cancel it is up to them

[elviajero]

20 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

I did not suggest he buy fraudulent ticket. I suggested he buy a ticket from  https://flyonward.com/en/

If you are trying to bait me to call you a clown it will not work

You suggested they buy a ticket from a website providing tickets that are invalid for the onward flight. The airline require a valid ticket. Meaning a ticket that is valid (usable) for the actual flight booked. By using a fly onward ticket the passenger is gaining boarding by deception (fraud).

 

"By booking with FlyOnward.com, you understand that your ticket is for proof of travel only. You cannot and are not allowed to use it to fly." https://flyonward.com/en/terms-of-service/

 

I wonder what would happen if they were denied entry to Thailand and had to explain to immigration and the airline that the flight booking they showed to board the flight was unusable and never was!

 

Either you don't know what your recommending and the consequences, or you're recommending that the OP knowingly deceives the airline. Whichever it is, you're not providing a solution that gives peace of mind!

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

What's fraudulent about it? It's a valid legitimate ticket and is accepted by Immigration as proof of onward travel, whether the buyer chooses to use that ticket or cancel it is up to them

Wrong as usual!

 

The buyer does not have the choice to use the ticket. It is automatically cancelled by Flyonward.

"By booking with FlyOnward.com, you understand that your ticket is for proof of travel only. You cannot and are not allowed to use it to fly."

"You understand that your ticket booked through FlyOnward.com is only valid for 24 hours or 48 hours depending on your selected booking option after it’s sent to you."

https://flyonward.com/en/terms-of-service/

 

They may well supply a legitimate booking, but the fact that the buyer knows it cannot be used they are knowingly deceiving the airline and or immigration. Deceit = fraud.

 

That website is on very dodgy ground should an airline decide to challenge it's legality.

 

Ubonjoe is giving the only legitimate option.

[darrendsd]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Wrong as usual!

 

The buyer does not have the choice to use the ticket. It is automatically cancelled by Flyonward.

"By booking with FlyOnward.com, you understand that your ticket is for proof of travel only. You cannot and are not allowed to use it to fly."

"You understand that your ticket booked through FlyOnward.com is only valid for 24 hours or 48 hours depending on your selected booking option after it’s sent to you."

https://flyonward.com/en/terms-of-service/

 

They may well supply a legitimate booking, but the fact that the buyer knows it cannot be used they are knowingly deceiving the airline and or immigration. Deceit = fraud.

 

That website is on very dodgy ground should an airline decide to challenge it's legality.

 

Ubonjoe is giving the only legitimate option.

 

Not wrong actually, if you actually read how it works instead of can't waiting to prove me wrong then you will see it

 

But of course you will be right, in your head you always are 

[JackThompson]

With fly-onward or buying a throw-away ticket, if the person showing the ticket does not intend to use it, ... I mean, I guess you could say you "changed your mind" with the throwaway, vs the clear premeditation of fly onward, but it's really a lie either way.  

 

A "show me you have money" solution would better solve the issue, including allowing a person to go to an ATM and print out a statement-balance on the spot.

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

With fly-onward or buying a throw-away ticket, if the person showing the ticket does not intend to use it, ... I mean, I guess you could say you "changed your mind" with the throwaway, vs the clear premeditation of fly onward, but it's really a lie either way.  

I disagree. The requirement is to provide a valid ticket. Whether you intend to use it is irrelevant. The existence of a genuine usuable ticket is to benefit the airline should they have to carry someone out of the country that, for whatever reason, has been denied entry. It's a useless ticket v a usable ticket.

 

I am certain that, if an airline want to see an onward flight and the passenger hands over a ticket saying that the ticket is rented, cannot be used and will be cancelled by the owner within 48 hours, they would decline boarding!

 

I am also sure that, if the same declaration was made to an immigration officer that was asking about an onward ticket, they would strongly consider denying entry.

 

There is misinformation on that website about the reason tickets are needed. 

 

A ticket issued by Flyonward cannot be used and is to bought to deceive the airline otherwise. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Not wrong actually, if you actually read how it works instead of can't waiting to prove me wrong then you will see it

 

But of course you will be right, in your head you always are 

Your statements were wrong and I proved it. I have read how it works that's how I knew you were wrong.

 

The deception works because the airline have no way of knowing that the ticket cannot be used, is rented, and will be cancelled by the actual owner.

 

What you, and possible those buying the tickets, don't seem to appreciate is the consequences of the deception if someone is denied entry. Also I imagine the airlines being used by this website wouldn't accept further purchases if they knew the website was buying the tickets, to rent to someone, with the intention to cancel.

[thaidelight]

O.k..so i want to leave 60 days after arrival (30 days plus  30 days extension) but i have to buy a ticket i dont want to use after 30 days,  and  buy 2nd ticket to fly out after 60 days which i do want to use!. :(.....

The airline is Finnair so just wondering if anyone has experience with them regarding this whether there is a problem to board without an onward flight after 30 days. 

Its really awkward that you cannot get a tourist visa from an embassy or consulate while travelling...they wont touch you if you cant prove you live in the country, and i cant fly back to Oz from europe to just get a visa..:(

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, thaidelight said:

O.k..so i want to leave 60 days after arrival (30 days plus  30 days extension) but i have to buy a ticket i dont want to use after 30 days,  and  buy 2nd ticket to fly out after 60 days which i do want to use!. :(.....

The airline is Finnair so just wondering if anyone has experience with them regarding this whether there is a problem to board without an onward flight after 30 days. 

Its really awkward that you cannot get a tourist visa from an embassy or consulate while travelling...they wont touch you if you cant prove you live in the country, and i cant fly back to Oz from europe to just get a visa..:(

You would only need one onward flight for the first 30 days. You don't need to provide a booked flight for the extension of stay.

 

Have you actually tried to get a tourist visa? I would have thought that as long as you are legally in the country you're applying in that embassies/consulates (maybe not all) would issue a tourist visa (SETV).

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, thaidelight said:

O.k..so i want to leave 60 days after arrival (30 days plus  30 days extension) but i have to buy a ticket i dont want to use after 30 days,  and  buy 2nd ticket to fly out after 60 days which i do want to use!. :(.....

The airline is Finnair so just wondering if anyone has experience with them regarding this whether there is a problem to board without an onward flight after 30 days. 

Its really awkward that you cannot get a tourist visa from an embassy or consulate while travelling...they wont touch you if you cant prove you live in the country, and i cant fly back to Oz from europe to just get a visa..:(

 

A possible approach is the following:

• Decide in advance which ticket you will buy online if necessary to meet the onward ticket requirement.
• Arrive at the airport early, nicely dressed. You want to appear affluent.
• If there is a problem at check in, state quietly but confidently that you are quite sure there will be no problem with Thai immigration. Repeat this to the airline supervisor. Try to use your return after 60 days. If that does not work, offer to sign an indemnity form to protect the airline against any financial losses (most important potential fines they might be forced to pay) if you are denied entry. I have actually traveled without a visa or onward ticket numerous times without being denied boarding, but they are definitely becoming more reluctant, more often, to go along.
• If necessary, use the fallback plan of buying the previously researched ticket online.

If you are of a nervous disposition, get it all sorted out in advance by having a visa or onward flight within 30 days.

[thaidelight]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You would only need one onward flight for the first 30 days. You don't need to provide a booked flight for the extension of stay.

 

Have you actually tried to get a tourist visa? I would have thought that as long as you are legally in the country you're applying in that embassies/consulates (maybe not all) would issue a tourist visa (SETV).

Yes i have tried in Paris, switzerland, UK, Australia...plus acouple of consulates..i have dual passports oz and Swiss but no one will give me one. Swiss said i have to prove i am living in switzerland even though i am swiss citizen!

[darrendsd]

17 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Your statements were wrong and I proved it. I have read how it works that's how I knew you were wrong.

 

The deception works because the airline have no way of knowing that the ticket cannot be used, is rented, and will be cancelled by the actual owner.

 

What you, and possible those buying the tickets, don't seem to appreciate is the consequences of the deception if someone is denied entry. Also I imagine the airlines being used by this website wouldn't accept further purchases if they knew the website was buying the tickets, to rent to someone, with the intention to cancel.

 

No you haven't proved me wrong, you never have, you only deal in what YOU think is deceptive,  a loophole a workaround etc etc etc yawn yawn

 

I on the other hand deal in facts

 

From the Flyonward site,  After an order is made, our staff will process the booking with your provided information. An email with your e-ticket (a PDF file) will be sent to you immediately from the airline (not from us). You can print out this ticket. The ticket will come with a “Confirmed” status which means has been paid in full. After that, you can go to the website of the airline, select “Manage My Booking” menu, input your name and booking reference code to see details of your ticket. Sounds great, right? These tickets are the real deal.

 

You have just said it yourself,

 

The deception works because the airline have no way of knowing that the ticket cannot be used, is rented, and will be cancelled by the actual owner.

 

The name on the Ticket IS the actual owner, it says this on the Airline website, read above

 

You have said it yourself 'THEY HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING"

 

"What you, and possible those buying the tickets, don't seem to appreciate is the consequences of the deception if someone is denied entry" Well according to you they have no way of knowing so how is somebody being denied entry going to happen exactly?

 

As usual you only deal in what MIGHT happen with no evidence that it actually will

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, thaidelight said:

Yes i have tried in Paris, switzerland, UK, Australia...plus acouple of consulates..i have dual passports oz and Swiss but no one will give me one. Swiss said i have to prove i am living in switzerland even though i am swiss citizen!

I'm not surprised about Paris as they are not the most application friendly embassy, but I am at the rest.

 

You should be able to buy a cheap onward ticket out of Thailand. The destination isn't important.

[thaidelight]

30 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

A possible approach is the following:

• Decide in advance which ticket you will buy online if necessary to meet the onward ticket requirement.
• Arrive at the airport early, nicely dressed. You want to appear affluent.
• If there is a problem at check in, state quietly but confidently that you are quite sure there will be no problem with Thai immigration. Repeat this to the airline supervisor. Try to use your return after 60 days. If that does not work, offer to sign an indemnity form to protect the airline against any financial losses (most important potential fines they might be forced to pay) if you are denied entry. I have actually traveled without a visa or onward ticket numerous times without being denied boarding, but they are definitely becoming more reluctant, more often, to go along.
• If necessary, use the fallback plan of buying the previously researched ticket online.

If you are of a nervous disposition, get it all sorted out in advance by having a visa or onward flight within 30 days.

Thanks for your input....i am well groomed, flying business etc...but my return ticket is for May, 4 mths after arriving as i plan to do travelling and come back to thailand to pick up return ticket at bkk..will this return date cause more problems? ? lol

[elviajero]

32 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

No you haven't proved me wrong, you never have, you only deal in what YOU think is deceptive,  a loophole a workaround etc etc etc yawn yawn

 

I on the other hand deal in facts

 

From the Flyonward site,  After an order is made, our staff will process the booking with your provided information. An email with your e-ticket (a PDF file) will be sent to you immediately from the airline (not from us). You can print out this ticket. The ticket will come with a “Confirmed” status which means has been paid in full. After that, you can go to the website of the airline, select “Manage My Booking” menu, input your name and booking reference code to see details of your ticket. Sounds great, right? These tickets are the real deal.

 

You have just said it yourself,

 

The deception works because the airline have no way of knowing that the ticket cannot be used, is rented, and will be cancelled by the actual owner.

 

The name on the Ticket IS the actual owner, it says this on the Airline website, read above

 

You have said it yourself 'THEY HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING"

 

"What you, and possible those buying the tickets, don't seem to appreciate is the consequences of the deception if someone is denied entry" Well according to you they have no way of knowing so how is somebody being denied entry going to happen exactly?

 

As usual you only deal in what MIGHT happen with no evidence that it actually will

Read your first post again. Then read my reply to it. The claims you made were proven wrong by the quotes I gave from the website.

 

My point is simply that this company are supplying a ticket to be used to deceive airlines and immigration, and if the user is caught out there could be consequences.

 

The quote you give now has nothing to do with my point. I know the ticket is in the passengers name as that is necessary for the deception, and you can technically argue that you own it, but the reality is that you don't. You didn't pay for it, and if you own it why are you paying to rent something you own!

 

What's wrong with considering the consequences?  I'm here to help and advise people, and I will always make them aware of bad advice whenever I see it. 

 

The website may think they are smart and covering themselves with disclaimers, but they are knowingly exposing their customers to potential problems, and when this con eventually gets exposed I have no doubt the site will get shut down and possibly prosecuted.

 

There is no legitimate reason to rent a ticket for 48 hours unless it's being used to deceive.

 

 

[PattayaParent]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

With fly-onward or buying a throw-away ticket, if the person showing the ticket does not intend to use it, ... I mean, I guess you could say you "changed your mind" with the throwaway, vs the clear premeditation of fly onward, but it's really a lie either way.  

 

A "show me you have money" solution would better solve the issue, including allowing a person to go to an ATM and print out a statement-balance on the spot.

 

But if you're in another country than your bank account the local ATM will not print out the balance of your home account.

[BritTim]

39 minutes ago, thaidelight said:

Thanks for your input....i am well groomed, flying business etc...but my return ticket is for May, 4 mths after arriving as i plan to do travelling and come back to thailand to pick up return ticket at bkk..will this return date cause more problems? ? lol

 

The balance of probability is that you will be OK. Politely, but confidently, state that Thai immigration is, in practice, not bothered about a ticket out within 30 days for travelers like you. If they are worried about it, you are quite happy to indemnify them.

 

Just to be on the safe side, do be sure to research in advance which ticket out you will buy in the worst case. A good website to look at is https://www.airasia.com. Also https://www.nokair.com, but beware that you do not see the full price including taxes until you select the flights. Expedia does not list most of the budget airlines, so there is usually no advantage to using them for cheap onward tickets, but by all means double check. You should always find something for around US$30 or so.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

 

Edit:   Continue and suspensions will be issued.  

[rogeroc]

If you do decide to buy a flight ticket out of Bangkok that you will not use i have normally found that the cheapest ticket will be Air Asia, Bangkok to Yangon. With Air Asia you can achieve the headline price as long as you cross off all the add ons as you go along. As Brit Tim says with NokAir the taxes are added after the headline price. 

 

Something else you may wish to consider (just to be informed) is to check Finnair's small print conditions of carriage. Somewhere you will probably find the rule about having the app. documents to stay legitimately in the country you are travelling to.