The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[Silurian]

11 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I do not understand the visceral hatred of your anti-HRC clique to the woman. Unless it is because she is a woman and most of you guys have some lingering bitterness over your divorces. Thinking back over the decades, I guess one could be offended by here 90's hair styles. I was not attracted to the character in Primary Colors as played by Emma Thompson. I am not a resident of New York State, so I didn't pay a lot of attention to her Senate record but what I noticed of it demonstrated that she has some significant political skills. Then there is her tenure at State. During that time, I had the misfortune to engage with a number of State Department officials. Universally they were puffed up morons with their heads up their behinds. But I think that is organizational culture and not something driven from the Secretary. I still have some dealing with them in various countries and they still seem to represent a particular institutional mindset.

 

I do not get outraged over Benghazi and the emails thing was of such insignificant silliness that it doesn't bear mentioning.

 

I have long thought that the 'vast right wing conspiracy' comment was accurate and prescient. I believe that the decades long smear campaign is informing your view of HRC, the Clinton's generally and the Clinton led Democrats.

 

I believe you are not American, so this further mystifies me.

 

In any event, they are now history and are were made irrelevant to the American political process on 9 November. They may make a comeback in some form as the Democrats reform and the resistance to donald  grows and learns how to be effective.

 

I am afraid your nihilism was misplaced. I am a fan of challenging the power of elites and of killing sacred cows but all the anarchic energy was sucked up in a scam by a self promoting con man. That you are just seeing this now is troubling. Most of us recognized it from the beginning. There is no evidence in any of donald's past that he or any of his douche brood have ever given a stuff for the 'little man', 'the common man', 'the battler'. In fact, his entire current business model is predicated on taking money from such people buy selling them the illusion of the Trump brand.

 

Obama talks about the conservatism of American institutions. Perhaps they will intercede and mitigate donald's chaos but a true nihilist would have struck at the core - the WASPs and their 'work ethic'; the Ownership of Capital and the rise in income inequality; and the maintenance of a monoculture that oppresses minorities. Bernie might have done it. He would not have been allowed to go far enough. But what you get with donald is the reinforcement of this core that benefits a privileged few, increasing numbers of them inheriting such privilege and possibly cementing this core for the next generation.

 

All in exchange for not having to put up with 'that woman'.

 

Excellent article! Too bad it will bounce off the ear drums of the anti-HRC troop. They will never ever accept her (much less tolerate her) no matter what evidence or what logic is brought forward. They want to see Hillary burnt, destroyed and blown away with as much vitriol as possible.

 

They see Comrade Donald as the savior in gold plated armor. Riding his Russian stallion to wipe away all the liberal/PC policies and install his Plutocracy which will somehow miraculously make the common man far better off than ever before.

[Jingthing]

Bottom line here, forgetting the trumpist fanatics because they're irredeemable, the segment of Americans that get the reality that a strong resistance is needed because a trump presidency is an existential threat to the basic core of our democracy. Putin got that ... he wanted trump, he helped trump win, and he won (yet again, got to watch that guy). 

 

I realize many people, even anti-trumpists are trying the NORMALIZE the trump presidency. Oh well. They act like there are strong checks and balances against the worse damage that trump can do. No, there aren't. trump is in the process right now of DISMANTLING many of those safeguards. As his party controls the entire government now and with increased executive powers in general, and his obvious authoritarian personality, trump enters office as the most powerful American president in U.S. history. Maybe that would be OK if it wasn't a fascistic type person like trump. But alas, it is. 

 

This article explains rather well why so many people do see trump as an existential threat to American democracy:

 

Quote

Is Donald Trump a Threat to Democracy?

The risk we face, then, is not merely a president with illiberal proclivities — it is the election of such a president when the guardrails protecting American democracy are no longer as secure.

American democracy is not in imminent danger of collapse. If ordinary circumstances prevail, our institutions will most likely muddle through a Trump presidency. It is less clear, however, how democracy would fare in a crisis. In the event of a war, a major terrorist attack or large-scale riots or protests — all of which are entirely possible — a president with authoritarian tendencies and institutions that have come unmoored could pose a serious threat to American democracy. We must be vigilant. The warning signs are real.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-threat-to-democracy.html?_r=0

Edited December 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A Jewish perspective on resisting trump.

Happy Hanukkah.

Yes, we noticed trump is deliberately not referencing Hanukkah in his "Merry Christmas Victory" tour. 

There is no room in this for "Give him a chance" and NORMALIZING a president trump. 

We've already seen his pre-inauguration shenanigans. He ain't gonna change, folks! 

 

 

http://forward.com/opinion/politics/356830/why-we-need-hanukkahs-message-of-righteous-civil-war-in-age-of-trump/?attribution=home-top-story-2-headline

 

Quote

 

Why We Need Hanukkah’s Message of Righteous Civil War in Age of Trump

...
Our imminent sovereign launched his presidential race by propounding the racist fiction of birtherism, and he ended it with a television commercial trotting out the classic anti-Semitic canard that Jews stealthily control the world economy. In between, as we know, he maligned, among others, women, Muslims, military heroes, Mexicans and the disabled.
...
 

When we face the new regime as it is — an autocrat secretly assisted by Russian skullduggery and cyber bullying with an inner circle populated by a Putin appeaser, an anti-vaccine propagandist, a climate-change denier, an alt-right ideologue and an eager believer in conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton sex rings and secret border messages of Muslim terrorists — then the miracle of the oil this Hanukkah should be our fierce persistence in fighting evil, the unextinguished flame of our yidishe neshama, our Jewish soul.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

One last chance. Almost impossible. But still.

 

Some humor --

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

16 hours ago, Silurian said:

 

Excellent article! Too bad it will bounce off the ear drums of the anti-HRC troop. They will never ever accept her (much less tolerate her) no matter what evidence or what logic is brought forward. They want to see Hillary burnt, destroyed and blown away with as much vitriol as possible.

 

They see Comrade Donald as the savior in gold plated armor. Riding his Russian stallion to wipe away all the liberal/PC policies and install his Plutocracy which will somehow miraculously make the common man far better off than ever before.

 

 

Sorry, but none of that applies to me and many others who did not want Hillary elected. I have no problem with evidence and logic. I do have a problem with dishonest spin though. Trump is perfectly happy to see HRC vanish from politics and I feel exactly the same way. I do not want to see her destroyed.

As far as I am concerned,  so far, all Trump has done is get rid of the greater evil - Hillary Clinton - but I have high hopes that he will - if nothing else - dismantle the Obama agenda that Hillary vowed to continue. For starters, that is good enough for me.

[Jingthing]

I think I predicted this before. A portion of the anti-trump RESISTANCE modeled directly on the ACT UP movement of the 80's when Reagan was president. Here we go again! Drats ... not happy about it, but that's the reality.

Quote

 

Lessons for Fighting a Demagogue, From the People Who Survived a Plague

How the AIDS movement has given birth to the Trump resistance.

 

 

... 

We had this little window where we all fell a little bit for the illusion of progress, but it’s like, oh, just kidding.”

...

ACT UP, however, offers lessons for moving forward in the face of powerlessness, grief, and horror.

...

 

 

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/how_the_aids_movement_has_given_birth_to_the_trump_resistance.html

 

I will add here that I am now firmer than ever in my prediction that trump is so abnormal, so extreme, so fascist, that it is unthinkable to even imagine that there won't be a very visible and relentless RESISTANCE to him for as long as he lasts. Unless he really goes off the rails, like historic Argentina style ... hopefully not!

 

Whether there will be any positive results from that, that's another matter entirely. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/18/2016 at 7:27 AM, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I do not understand the visceral hatred of your anti-HRC clique to the woman. Unless it is because she is a woman and most of you guys have some lingering bitterness over your divorces. Thinking back over the decades, I guess one could be offended by here 90's hair styles. I was not attracted to the character in Primary Colors as played by Emma Thompson. I am not a resident of New York State, so I didn't pay a lot of attention to her Senate record but what I noticed of it demonstrated that she has some significant political skills. Then there is her tenure at State. During that time, I had the misfortune to engage with a number of State Department officials. Universally they were puffed up morons with their heads up their behinds. But I think that is organizational culture and not something driven from the Secretary. I still have some dealing with them in various countries and they still seem to represent a particular institutional mindset.

 

I do not get outraged over Benghazi and the emails thing was of such insignificant silliness that it doesn't bear mentioning.

 

I have long thought that the 'vast right wing conspiracy' comment was accurate and prescient. I believe that the decades long smear campaign is informing your view of HRC, the Clinton's generally and the Clinton led Democrats.

 

I believe you are not American, so this further mystifies me.

 

In any event, they are now history and are were made irrelevant to the American political process on 9 November. They may make a comeback in some form as the Democrats reform and the resistance to donald  grows and learns how to be effective.

 

I am afraid your nihilism was misplaced. I am a fan of challenging the power of elites and of killing sacred cows but all the anarchic energy was sucked up in a scam by a self promoting con man. That you are just seeing this now is troubling. Most of us recognized it from the beginning. There is no evidence in any of donald's past that he or any of his douche brood have ever given a stuff for the 'little man', 'the common man', 'the battler'. In fact, his entire current business model is predicated on taking money from such people buy selling them the illusion of the Trump brand.

 

Obama talks about the conservatism of American institutions. Perhaps they will intercede and mitigate donald's chaos but a true nihilist would have struck at the core - the WASPs and their 'work ethic'; the Ownership of Capital and the rise in income inequality; and the maintenance of a monoculture that oppresses minorities. Bernie might have done it. He would not have been allowed to go far enough. But what you get with donald is the reinforcement of this core that benefits a privileged few, increasing numbers of them inheriting such privilege and possibly cementing this core for the next generation.

 

All in exchange for not having to put up with 'that woman'.

While I try and not respond to such long and mostly irrelevant replies, I feel obliged to select a few points to respond to.

 

I do not understand the visceral hatred of your anti-HRC clique to the woman. Unless it is because she is a woman and most of you guys have some lingering bitterness over your divorces.

The usual despicable response to dislike of a particular woman- accuse us of disliking ALL women, and because of our problems with SOME women. Is that out of the "Psychology for the Politically Correct" book?

 

I do not get outraged over Benghazi

Perhaps you should. Hopefully the new Sec. State will finally release the truth of what happened.

 

I believe you are not American, so this further mystifies me.

Her mistakes affect everyone on the planet.

 

All in exchange for not having to put up with 'that woman'.

Indeed worth it.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/19/2016 at 11:44 AM, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

Sorry, but none of that applies to me and many others who did not want Hillary elected. I have no problem with evidence and logic. I do have a problem with dishonest spin though. Trump is perfectly happy to see HRC vanish from politics and I feel exactly the same way. I do not want to see her destroyed.

As far as I am concerned,  so far, all Trump has done is get rid of the greater evil - Hillary Clinton - but I have high hopes that he will - if nothing else - dismantle the Obama agenda that Hillary vowed to continue. For starters, that is good enough for me.

Good reply.

While I understand that Trump is taking the correct ( political ) path in not pursuing HRC into jail, I hope the truth as to what that, IMO, dreadful woman actually did while Sec. State will come out.

Unfortunately, IMO the political criminals of the US usually get away with it.

[Jingthing]

Explaining the dangers of playing along, normalizing trump, and giving him a chance --

 

Quote

 

What Those Who Studied Nazis Can Teach Us About The Strange Reaction To Donald Trump

So, in the last year, Trump has flirted with or, maybe more his style, groped and pawed at totalitarianism, yet the advice from many is to “give him a chance” ― or to coordinate. 

...

We should not waste our time or imaginations trying to reconfigure Trumpism to explain why all of the “good people” supported him. It is more important to see it for what it is and resist. Hopefully, they will join us. If not, it will not be necessary to call them names, they will have named themselves.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-nazi-propaganda-coordinate_us_58583b6fe4b08debb78a7d5c

[Ulysses G.]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Explaining the dangers of playing along, normalizing trump, and giving him a chance --

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-nazi-propaganda-coordinate_us_58583b6fe4b08debb78a7d5c

 

Speaking of Nazis, this kind of propaganda takes a page out of their playbook. The left calls wolf yet again.

 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

 

- Joseph Goebbels

Edited December 21, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Nobody is saying that trump is literally Hitler.

But the similarities of the rise of trump and the rise of the Nazis are just too obvious to ignore. Trumpism is similar to other messed up political movements as well, such as the specifically American nativist KNOW NOTHING party. 

 

 

 

Speaking of Goebbels, the modern version may turn out to be Bannon. Propaganda minister. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Speaking of Nazis, this kind of propaganda takes a page out of their playbook. The left calls wolf yet again.

 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

 

- Joseph Goebbels

Just look at the source of his link. The Huffington Post is completely OTT with it's anti Trump propaganda. No one seeking the truth would rely  on it.

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.   Stay on topic, please.  

[Jingthing]

Impeachment, anyone?

 

Quote

 

THE EVIDENCE TO IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP MAY ALREADY BE HERE

We don’t need to wait to see Trump’s conflicts of interest in action. The ethical violations that will soon be illegal are already taking place.

 

 

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-impeach

[Ulysses G.]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Impeachment, anyone?

 

 

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-impeach

 

Another pipe dream. He won the general election. He won the recount. He won the electoral college. He is not going anywhere.

[thaibeachlovers]

It seems that some posters on this thread are so OTT with their hatred of Trump that they would prefer to dispense with democracy altogether and merely have had Obama annoint Clinton as his successor, dispensing with the election altogether. That is apparently a call to impose fascism by another name, which is ironic, given the posters claiming that Trump is a fascist.

It also appears that some are so intent on destroying Trump, that they want to throw the US into chaos, regardless of the consequences.

I can't come to any other conclusion when some describe the election as a "mistake", than they consider dictatorship a preferable political system for America.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Another pipe dream. He won the general election. He won the recount. He won the electoral college. He is not going anywhere.

Exactly. It appears that some forget the congress has a GOP majority, and it is they that would have to impeach him.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Another pipe dream. He won the general election. He won the recount. He won the electoral college. He is not going anywhere.

For now. But whether he finishes his first term is yet to be determined. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

[Jingthing]

Harper's suggests on their cover -- LOCK HIM UP!

 

Quote

 

That is my sensation now: we have been poisoned, and will spend some time groping for the antidote.

...

Despair, division, self-consuming rage, the paralyzing sense that the devil has not only the best tunes but the entire orchestra — resist it all. The battle is just beginning.

 

 

http://harpers.org/archive/2017/01/mourning-in-america/

[beechguy]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Harper's suggests on their cover -- LOCK HIM UP!

 

 

http://harpers.org/archive/2017/01/mourning-in-america/

 

Just curious JT, Ivanka and her children were on a JetBlue flight being harassed by a couple of other passengers according to CBS News. Are they part of that brave new resistance being discussed here? I don't suppose those passengers could be called haters, they were apparently Democrat. Correct?

More ridiculous by the day, no wonder Hillary lost the election.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, beechguy said:

 

Just curious JT, Ivanka and her children were on a JetBlue flight being harassed by a couple of other passengers according to CBS News. Are they part of that brave new resistance being discussed here? I don't suppose those passengers could be called haters, they were apparently Democrat. Correct?

More ridiculous by the day, no wonder Hillary lost the election.

Just curious BG, the neo-Nazi trumpists that recently gathered at a Washington, D.C. restaurant and gave the fascist salute SEIG TRUMP -- are they part of that brave new "Great America" under trump being discussed here? They were apparently republicans. Correct?

 

More ridiculous by the day, no wonder that resistance to a president trump is growing and can NEVER be normalized. 

 

Dude, please don't bother again with the PERSONAL BAITING as you just did in your post. I'm not here to approve or disapprove of every word or action of an anti-trumpist individual or group. We're having a more GENERAL discussion. Got it?

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Celebrity food television personality Anthony Bourdain gives his "feedback" on the resistance to trump.

 

Quote

... So I’m not saying we should sit back docilely and silently while Trump dismantles our institutions, and our Supreme Court, and the rights of individuals, as men, as women, as parents — I’m not saying that at all. But we’d better come up with some fresh CENSORED ideas. And I would think that they’d better be grass roots, and they should keep very much in mind all those people who voted for Trump. 
...

 

http://www.eater.com/2016/12/21/14038332/anthony-bourdain-election-trump-interview

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jingthing

[beechguy]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just curious BG, the neo-Nazi trumpists that recently gathered at a Washington, D.C. restaurant and gave the fascist salute SEIG TRUMP -- are they part of that brave new "Great America" under trump being discussed here? They were apparently republicans. Correct?

 

More ridiculous by the day, no wonder that resistance to a president trump is growing and can NEVER be normalized. 

 

Dude, please don't bother again with the PERSONAL BAITING as you just did in your post. I'm not here to approve or disapprove of every word or action of an anti-trumpist individual or group. We're having a more GENERAL discussion. Got it?

 

it wasn't personal baiting JT, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a double standard, within the general conversation as to who is a hater, etc. Got it?

Edited December 23, 2016 by beechguy

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, beechguy said:

 

it wasn't personal baiting JT, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a double standard, within the general conversation as to who is a hater, etc. Got it?

No. I don't get it. Opposing trump politically is totally legitimate. Hating people based on sex, race, gender, orientation, ethnicity, age, etc. isn't. 

[Ulysses G.]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just curious BG, the neo-Nazi trumpists that recently gathered at a Washington, D.C. restaurant and gave the fascist salute SEIG TRUMP -- are they part of that brave new "Great America" under trump being discussed here?

 

 

 

They are a small group of loons and Trump rejects them. The democrats have plenty of hateful followers too.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

 

They are a small group of loons and Trump rejects them. The democrats have plenty of hateful followers too.

Out of the context of why I posted that, your reply is absurd and meaningless. 

[beechguy]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No. I don't get it. Opposing trump politically is totally legitimate. Hating people based on sex, race, gender, orientation, ethnicity, age, etc. isn't. 

 

No personal baiting at all, just pointing out the double standard the liberals are using. I don't expect you to defend every liberal, and I'm not defending every conservative. I just notice the term racist, bigot, homophobe, etc. gets thrown around very easily, mostly by liberals. I think many times it's a matter of opinion, rather than a matter of fact.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, beechguy said:

 

No personal baiting at all, just pointing out the double standard the liberals are using. I don't expect you to defend every liberal, and I'm not defending every conservative. I just notice the term racist, bigot, homophobe, etc. gets thrown around very easily, mostly by liberals. I think many times it's a matter of opinion, rather than a matter of fact.

Read trump's twitter account. Click into it and then you'll see the hard core hatred from the trumpists. 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.