Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[metisdead]

Posts linking to Thai language news sites have been removed, again.  As this is the English language side of the forum, please use English language sites when posting updates.  

 

Inflammatory posts have been removed as well. 

[Jingthing]

Well, one of my old friends retired here in '03, I think. The retirement visa requirement wasn't 800k then, even so, he has been paying that for many years now. No concession was made retrospectively.

Look at the law. It's there.

[Felt 35]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Silly arguments over who has made enough money in your lives.  I don't care how much you have or made. It means nothing to anyone. If you want to live in an apartment or condo for 100K per month and waste your money go ahead. There are beautiful and spacious condos/apartments in excellent neighborhoods for 8-10K per month.  None of this is the issue. People have a right to be concerned about this Visa and the misinformation that has been spewed about it. Even if the retirement financials have increased -if you are here on a current retirement extension- you will be grandfathered at whatever financials were in effect at the time be it 200K; 500K or 800K. There are many who have already been grandfathered  All the other nonsense about who has the most money is nonsense and the speculation about Thailand not wanting us is further nonesensr.

 

Silly, well at least man can wonder when upstanding foreigners argue over "who have most" when chosen to live in a part of world where we know before arriving that lack of standards, safety, education and health systems as most of us are born into not will be available to the general population for years to come. Apropos money, look at status here and it seems people forget the subject they argue over because its actually they behind it who ask and need more and the additional visa option is not a "special offer" but an attempt to increase revenue from a minority but stable and reliable source of elderly retirees, well maybe we not burn 10xxx a evening in Pattaya but at least we are here with our small or great pensions also next month either if its in the middle of bombings, political chaos, zika or bad intern national economy.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Well, one of my old friends retired here in '03, I think. The retirement visa requirement wasn't 800k then, even so, he has been paying that for many years now. No concession was made retrospectively.

Your freind would have had to of entered before 21st October 1998 to qualify for grandfathering.

[Diplomatico]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

The only 1 year (long stay) visa available to over 50's is the Non Immigrant 'O-A' visa.

 

If you read the translation of the original announcement made in Thai (look back through this thread) it is clear that the new visa is an addition/change to the 1 year Non 'O-A' visa and is nothing to do with 1 year extensions of stay that are often referred to a 1 year retirement visas.

 

 

 

  Well stated.  I tend to enjoy reading your posts since they are generally grounded in fact and reason.  

 

  Contrast that with the hysterical little girl whose posts predicting the end of the world have dominated the pages of this thread that I've bothered to read.  

 

  Sanity prevails.    

 

  

[Chopperboy]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

what benefits pray tell

The whole infrastructure and security system run by the government - without that it would be like living in Africa. You probably think that happens by magic and is provided for free somehow. But it comes at a huge cost, and not one borne by the expat retirees living here effectively tax free.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Chopperboy

[Jingthing]

Your freind would have had to of entered before 21st October 1998 to qualify for grandfathering.

Thanks. I forgot the change date. But the grandfathering for that change is indeed the law. Which is s reason many of us hope that a future change will be similarly grandfathered for current level people. Of course if on grandfathering you must never break the continuous chain of extensions or you lose the old levels.

[tukkytuktuk]

The Royal Thai Government website in English would be helpful if it was updated regulary. Here is the link to the English version:-

 

http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/index.php

 

Good luck with the update in English language.

As you can see, from small media outfits to large media corperations the language barrier still creates inaccuracy in news reports. With this news only a page of a loosely detailed desription of a new long stay visa were given. The rush to print this, the copying of articles from newspaper to newspaper twitter to facebook to forum, etc. Still no one knows whats going on.

Edited November 23, 2016 by tukkytuktuk

[i claudius]

Any retiree,living here even if he pays no tax,more than likely supports a family, whether it is a wife and children ,girlfriend etc ,many also help in this way by supporting poor relatives that they have in rural parts ,I myself am lucky in that my wife earns a good living and does not have to support anyone ,but no way would I put 3 million in a Thai bank account and just leave it ,and while not poor my pension is less than 100000 baht a month,as I said hours ago ,even the Thai govt are not going to throw out thousands of aging westerners ,leaving their family,s alone in hardship and destitution,

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[Dtrump]

Any of you guys who actually live in Thailand should have your wife drop an email to the government informing them that Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter has written a story that claims Thailand is eliminating the one year retirement visa.  That is what "Replace" means.  I doubt it they have ever considered the idea but it would be nice if a Thai native told them what their reporters are telling the world.  It would be really cool if Thai Visa had enough balls to ask the many contacts at immigration that they surely have the same question.  That would be a public service and proactive journalism.  And a sign that they were actually newsmen.  

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

Edited November 23, 2016 by Dtrump

[elgordo38]

I think someone spent a whole week of sleepless nights to come up with this whatever it is. From all the comments on here it should come with a translation. Trying to analyze it it should narrow down to be suitable for about 50 people. What a headliner. 

[DerringDo]

22 hours ago, seancbk said:

Or you could actually check the Thai Deposit Protection Agency and read the Royal Decree approved in April 2016 and published in the Royal Gazette effective Aug 11, 2016.

http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN

 

Thanks for the info. As I posted it was in the Thai Law Forum. Can't get the DPA page to load but the graphic is clear enough.

[metisdead]

Another post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed:

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

[whitemouse]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:03 PM, elviajero said:

You're going to look really stupid if it turns out that the 1 year extensions of stay (800K) remains unchanged and the "smug idiots" have the option of an even longer visa/permit.

 

Outrageous post!

 

 

Nothing outrageous in his post!

 

Every time visa and entry requirements change,  rules have become harder for UNDER 50 crowd to stay here. And every time main posters type up 'Get A Proper Visa!!' and "Why don't You Get Thai Elite Card!!' posts. Now the new rules may affect you, so man up,  deal with it, get a PROPER visa, like you guys kept telling the under 50 foreigners. 

 

I feel for you, cos if the under 50 retirement extension will indeed be replaced with this 100k a months thing, most retired folks here can not stay here, and many don't have means to return and live in their native countries, as been pointed out it is a real tragedy for many. So please, next time rules change, rues that do not affect you, think of others too.

 

I really hope this new scheme will not replace the current over 50 yearly extension, but if it does, this will be a tragedy for many, many expats. But not me, I'm used to wiggling here, doing Tourist Visas, counting my entries etc. But I don't wish this misery to anyone!

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by whitemouse

[elviajero]

50 minutes ago, Dtrump said:

Any of you guys who actually live in Thailand should have your wife drop an email to the government informing them that Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter has written a story that claims Thailand is eliminating the one year retirement visa.  That is what "Replace" means.  I doubt it they have ever considered the idea but it would be nice if a Thai native told them what their reporters are telling the world.  It would be really cool if Thai Visa had enough balls to ask the many contacts at immigration that they surely have the same question.  That would be a public service and proactive journalism.  And a sign that they were actually newsmen.  

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

Before anyone wastes their time can you point to where Teeranai Charyvastra claims "Thailand is eliminating the one year retirement visa"?

 

They are offering a new visa to replace (maybe run alongside - needs clarifying) the 1 year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant 'O-A' (long stay) visa that is available to foreigners that are over 50, whether or not they are retired.

[tukkytuktuk]

Latest on this issue

 

- No one knows if the new long stay visa will replace the existing retirement visa.

- No new statements have been issued by the government on this new long term visa.

 

Conclusion

- The anxiety over the new visa announcement will continue until an official detailed explaination can be given in English by the Royal Thai Government.

 

What can you do?

- Help search the internet for more details or breaking news on this issue and post them with a link to this thread.

[Jingthing]

Searching the internet for info about this would likely take you HERE, right? 

[puukao]

3 million for retirement not to be touched..

5 million for house

500,000 a year to barely live decent existence

times 30, since plan on living long time

23 million..

plus medical..

 

100000000 million....

 

soon inflation at 40%

 

still a cheap place....................good.

[Wilsonandson]

This is the page on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website wherein the requirements for an O-A visa is detailed. When something changes, I guess I'll pay attention -- or some new Police Order issued. 
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html
 
'Til then ...

No updates on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website.

[Mike45]

32 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Before anyone wastes their time can you point to where Teeranai Charyvastra claims "Thailand is eliminating the one year retirement visa"?

 

They are offering a new visa to replace (maybe run alongside - needs clarifying) the 1 year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant 'O-A' (long stay) visa that is available to foreigners that are over 50, whether or not they are retired.

I guess he can be contacted for clarification about his story.

Teeranai Charuvastra can be reached at [email protected] and followed on Twitter at @teeranai_c.

[grungteep]

Apologies if it's already been covered, as I also could not read through all the posts.

 

But what about long term expats 50+ who cannot meet the currently as stated CASH requirements (yearly or monthly) for the proposed 10 year visa?  However they can prove beyond any doubt that they have invested more than that permanently in Thailand though the purchase of a condo. One that is not for rental or investment but used as my home for years (cost of condo was not high enough to meet any investment requirements but more than the cash in the bank  needed for the 10 year visa). Ironically I would even meet ALL the requirements for the 10 year visa as currently proposed if I had not purchase the condo and had just left the cash in a Thai bank account. Now it seems as though my condo purchase years ago is meaningless and will count for NOTHING (not even a reduction in cash requirements) as evidence or proof (along with with my years of 1 year work visas, followed by years of 1 year retirement visas, a 5 year Thai drivers license etc.) of my long term retirement commitment or contribution to Thailand?!? 

[Jingthing]

No, there is definitely nothing in this new law about condos being used as part of the financial qualifications. So forget about that.

Interestingly, some other nations do (or used to anyway).

I recall looking into Mexico retirement and if you owned a home there as your residence the financial qualifications were cut in HALF. 

[digibum]

4 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

You'd never own a property in Thailand, but you would put a condo in your Thai wifes name??!!

 

I said I would flip the properties.  In other words, if I could find a property that could be acquired for less than what I think the current market value is, whether due to serious maintenance neglect which I would remedy or some other seller driven circumstances, and sell it quickly for a profit.  I couldn't imagine holding title to the property for more than 12 months in that scenario.  

 

Condos I could purchase in my own name.   Doing this with anything involving land, would be done in the wife's name.  

 

But the point is that these are investments with a short, well defined timeframe which minimizes the risk of getting caught by surprise by some new proclamation by the government which might destroy the value of the investment.  

 

That said, the wife has been looking at purchasing land in Thailand with her own money just so that if I were to get hit by a buy tomorrow she would feel like she had a place to go back to (she owns a home already but her relatives have more or less taken it over and she would have to kick them out if she went back).  Though, of late I think her thinking is starting to shift back to just investing that in US real estate as she's asked me to keep an eye out for condos that are priced right.

 

I don't tell her what to do with the money she's earned.  :-)

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Chopperboy said:

The whole infrastructure and security system run by the government - without that it would be like living in Africa. You probably think that happens by magic and is provided for free somehow. But it comes at a huge cost, and not one borne by the expat retirees living here effectively tax free.

the retirees don't build or buy houses/condos? they don't provide employment? they don't have to pay VAT? they don't buy cars paying exorbitant import and excise duties? give me a break man! i'd like to compare what i have spend on indirect taxes during the last 12 years with the taxes a middle income Thai pays during a life time and for sure i'd be way ahead. the same applies to a Farang who worked in Thailand for decades if he didn't have a top job or was sent to Thailand by a foreign company with an appropriate offshore employment contract.  

[newnative]

Some posters seem to be focused on the 'replace' word and it seems to be distressing them.  Right now I have a retirement visa type that I extend once a year.  Since my native country is on the list approved for the new 10 year visa type and I can meet the requirements, I might replace my current type visa with the new 10 year type.  It doesn't mean that my current visa type will no longer be available.  I think the announcement was  confusing  because the government was focused on the new visa type and probably didn't think they needed to say anything about the other visa types still available since the announcement wasn't about them. 

[rabas]

20 minutes ago, grungteep said:

Apologies if it's already been covered, as I also could not read through all the posts.

 

But what about long term expats 50+ who cannot meet the currently as stated CASH requirements (yearly or monthly) for the proposed 10 year visa?  However they can prove beyond any doubt that they have invested more than that permanently in Thailand though the purchase of a condo. One that is not for rental or investment but used as my home for years (cost of condo was not high enough to meet any investment requirements but more than the cash in the bank  needed for the 10 year visa). Ironically I would even meet ALL the requirements for the 10 year visa as currently proposed if I had not purchase the condo and had just left the cash in a Thai bank account. Now it seems as though my condo purchase years ago is meaningless and will count for NOTHING (not even a reduction in cash requirements) as evidence or proof (along with with my years of 1 year work visas, followed by years of 1 year retirement visas, a 5 year Thai drivers license etc.) of my long term retirement commitment or contribution to Thailand?!? 

Like others are saying, there is still a lot of missing detail.

 

However, I wonder if condo owners can get a 1 year short term loan based on their condo to help with the one year only 3M deposit.  Sounds to me they like just want to see if you really have that much net worth available.  Same as the current 3 month 800,000 bank deposit, after 3 months they believe it is yours and you can withdraw it. (of course this assumes the condo is already paid for)

Edited November 23, 2016 by rabas

[digibum]

4 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

I don't need to move :) I am not in Thailand ATM, and not even considering being there for longer than the odd month the ways things are going...

 

This is a discussion forum, where differences of opinion are normal, I don't care about Thailand not having a suggestion box, surely I have as much right to disagree with this as you have to agree. I already know that if they go ahead with this, AND abolish the current requirements, Thailand is going to loose out. It doesn't take a genius to see that from a mile away.

 

 

Yes, but your arguments are about fairness.  Fairness doesn't exist.  If life was fair I would be better looking and much richer.  :-)  

 

You're also not going to convince me (or anyone else for that matter) based on the common sense argument because the Thai government has repeatedly shown that common sense is not a prerequisite for public service or office.  

 

Given that your two main arguments are fairness and common sense, well, in Thailand you've already lost. 

[61guitarman61]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:32 AM, LivinLOS said:

 

 

It would 'replace' the retirement visa for folks currently using it, who wish to have a 10 year visa (or more likely extension).. Not remove the option totally.. Is how I read it. 

Anyway bring it on.. If if gets rid of some of the moaners and penny pinchers.. Thailand is no longer cheap, 300 baht yuppie beers and fashionable sets.. Get rid of the chang singlet contingent and I dont think Thailand is going to cry a river. 

Well, Mr T, (mental picture of the shirt unbuttoned to your navel to reveal a gold chain forest type of guy), You are not going to spend more than you are right now, by choice anyway. What will happen here is that those long term low class "penny pinchers" who are forced to leave and find Cambodia or Laos will also leave a huge financial hole in the nearly 15% GDP tourist trade in Thailand. Your condo, your food, your car and fuel, hotels, and 300 baht yuppie beers will go up substantially. YOU, Mr Gold Chain, will be expected to fill that void out of your monthly stipend. And after the reality of their failed attempt at raking in more revenue through the false assumption that all farang are in your gold chain crowd by default, they will then amend their 10 year visa with shorter terms and new higher fees etc... Good luck to you unless you are truly in the hiso status you like to think you are in. Your days will be numbered as well. Cheers. (You might try to lower your nose a bit before it gets cut off by a ceiling fan)

Edited November 23, 2016 by 61guitarman61
Missing item

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, newnative said:

Some posters seem to be focused on the 'replace' word and it seems to be distressing them.  Right now I have a retirement visa type that I extend once a year.  Since my native country is on the list approved for the new 10 year visa type and I can meet the requirements, I might replace my current type visa with the new 10 year type.  It doesn't mean that my current visa type will no longer be available.  I think the announcement was  confusing  because the government was focused on the new visa type and probably didn't think they needed to say anything about the other visa types still available since the announcement wasn't about them. 

Reading the text again, there doesn't appear to be any list or specific nations.

That's how some people (including me for awhile) has misinterpreted it. I had taken the idea that the nations were limited and restricted to strongly indicate REPLACE was definitely wrong, at least as far as current retirement extensions.

However, read this, it doesn't say that at all:

 

Quote

Pasted from another translation: 1. found that most foreigners traveling to the elderly residing in long-term increase. Recognized by the visa form. Non-Immigrant Visa Code OA (Long Stay) Ministry of Tourism and Sports (kg) informed that in 2557 the number of foreigners who have been approved to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand top 15 include the UK, US, Switzerland. Switzerland, Japan, France, Australia, Canada, India, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, China and Taiwan, foreign groups are potential group. And are residing in the country's top tourist destinations, including Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai and Chonburi province, a famous seaside strip.

 

[digibum]

3 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

This happens in our own countries, those people even get free houses & 100's of pounds a week, .

 

Another thing, I've spent a few years on a retirement visa but are not yet retired. In the last twenty years i've brought several hundred thousand dollars into Thailand and never received any state provided benefits of any kind. I have no children and provide for my own healthcare. I think Thailand could do with lots more like me. I'm 51 and need to work another 10 years or so, that would be even more money flowing into Thailand, where I would be totally self-sustaining, as I've always been.

 

I agree but I don't think it needs to be on a retirement visa.  Lots of digital nomads and others who have sources of income from outside of Thailand who not only could bring substantial revenue but might also be inclined to hire locals for various jobs and-or eventually create a corporate entity in Thailand for handling certain parts of their business.  

 

But that shouldn't be restricted to those 50+ as there are a lot of financially independent people much younger than that that would be more than willing to jump through a few visa hoops in order to get a 6 or 12 month visa.