Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

Why don't they just SAY that, instead of leaving it to speculation? Many of us need time to get the hell OUT, if they are forcing us out.

Possibly because this is HALF BAKED at this stage that they haven't even though all the details through. That would be a BIG DETAIL, but same difference. 

[alocacoc]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry, but that's completely ridiculous. The government will KNOW Medicare is no good in Thailand and they also know the most serious cases involve people that end up in hospital and unable to travel unless they get an air ambulance, about 100K dollars last time I checked. 

 

That's true. They have enough experiences.

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/217882/destitute-foreigners-and-thailand-hospitals

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Chip Allen said:

That being the case, all Thailand has to do is spell out EXACTLY what the requirements are and EXACTLY what they portend for those of us already retired here on an income far above most of the populace. Perhaps if they spelled it out, you would "understand people like me".

Give them a chance, the proposal was only made 2 days ago. The problem is that the press got hold of the cabinet proposal and published articles without spelling out that the proposal only applies to Non immigrant 'O-A' visas.

 

The MFA will announce the new visa in due course.

 

If you are here already, on an extension of stay issued by immigration, nothing is changing. Once this new visa is available you will have a choice. If you're happy applying for 1 year extensions each year then stick with that. If you like the idea of a visa that will enable you to stay for 10 years without applying for annual extension, and you qualify for the visa, then go for it.

 

You will not be required to buy insurance, have 3M in the bank, or a 100K pm income to renew your current annual extensions of stay based on retirement. They are proposing a change to an existing visa not proposing to change extensions of stay.

[Spellforce]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

I hate the gnaw the old bone but .. visa = permission to enter the country, extension of permission to stay = exactly that. Visas you get outside Thailand, extensions inside. It helps to keep the two clear.

No for retired people the VISA can be done in Bangkok VISA O = 3 months, then extensions 1 year in the immigration office where you are living.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I hate the gnaw the old bone but .. visa = permission to enter the country, extension of permission to stay = exactly that. Visas you get outside Thailand, extensions inside. It helps to keep the two clear.

Yes, but when talking about the Thai press and even immigration officials that CONSTANTLY  use those terms interchangeably, that doesn't always clear things up as much as we might wish. Especially in this situation where it appears really HALF BAKED. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Just now, elviajero said:

Give them a chance, the proposal was only made 2 days ago. The problem is that the press got hold of the cabinet proposal and published articles without spelling out that the proposal only applies to Non immigrant 'O-A' visas.

 

The MFA will announce the new visa in due course.

 

If you are here already, on an extension of stay issued by immigration, nothing is changing. Once this new visa is available you will have a choice. If you're happy applying for 1 year extensions each year then stick with that. If you like the idea of a visa that will enable you to stay for 10 years without applying for annual extension, and you qualify for the visa, then go for it.

 

You will not be required to buy insurance, have 3M in the bank, or a 100K pm income to renew your current annual extensions of stay based on retirement. They are proposing a change to an existing visa not proposing to change extensions of stay.

Sorry, but you're making up stuff.

There is a lot we don't know yet and it's simply MISLEADING a lot of worried people to push any kind of attitude that you do, or anyone does. It's not even clear to me that the Thai officials behind this have worked this all out, so you have? Doesn't wash.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

Nothing will be clear as the Thai government has just passed the cabinet vote and now it goes onto the interior minister who will forward it to the ministry of foreign affairs, etc, etc. Until this is fine tuned and will probably be implemented next year.

Exactly. We can't RUSH certainty until the certainty actually exists. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, Spellforce said:

No for retired people the VISA can be done in Bangkok VISA O = 3 months, then extensions 1 year in the immigration office where you are living.

You're likely talking about conversion of the class of your entry. I'm not sure which conversions they do, but I'm guessing still have to enter the country with a non-immigrant visa to get it done?

[Andrew65]

24 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Here is the difference between current Type O retirement and Type O-A retirment according to

Thai Immigation under the Thai retirement section.

 

Q: Is it possible the new type O-A rules have nothing to do with Type-O retirement, which is therefore not affected at all?

Processing of Visa Application

There are at least two ways on how to get a visa to retire in Thailand:

1. Application outside Thailand.

   A foreigner who meets the age requirement set by the Thai Embassy (in their country) can directly apply for the 1 Year Non-Immigrant OA visa from their home country. Application for this type of visa requires the applicant to submit a police clearance and medical certificate.

2. Application inside Thailand

   Getting a 1 year visa extension inside Thailand based on retirement requires an initial application for a Non-Immigrant O visa. The Non-Immigrant O visa is usually applied at the Thai Embassy in the applicant’s home country, but it can also be obtained inside Thailand. However, the applicant must already meet the financial requirement if they wish to go with the latter.

   In addition, applicants of Non-immigrant O visa extension in Thailand must provide evidence of their address in Thailand. Processing of visa extension is done at the immigration office in the same area, or usually the one nearest to their location in case there is none in their city or province.

Renewal of Extension

Once the applicant has obtained a one year extension of stay based on retirement, the extension can be renewed every year within Thailand. The renewal application must be done prior to the expiration of the current visa. The procedure for renewal is the same as for the initial application, and therefore this should be an easier task for retirees who are able to obtain an extension before.

Just to re-iterate something relative to what you talk about here. A Non-O obtained outside ones own country requires no medical or police check.

 

An old friend was refused a Non-OA in Canada a few years ago on the police check, wouldn't have been a problem if he'd applied for a Non-O in Penang, Phnom Penh etc.

[Luckysilk]

My God reading the negative crap on here how do you guys survive daily.

 

Based on some posts I really really hope the rules change and the poor guys have to leave.

[Spellforce]

1 minute ago, DrTuner said:

You're likely talking about conversion of the class of your entry. I'm not sure which conversions they do, but I'm guessing still have to enter the country with a non-immigrant visa to get it done?

You are talking about the convertion of a VISA O-A 1 year into a VISA O (yes you have to do a border run)

But you can also do a VISA O in Bangkok (3 months) and you'll never have to leave the country.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Your thoughts are correct- however, I am almost afraid to even suggest alternatives or provide an optimistic reading of what I believe will happen. There are people on this board who are ready to jump on any optimistic view or reading of this situation as it opposes their own pessimistic view. I think I will leave it at that- go ahead believe the worst if you want 

That's total B.S.!

I don't have an optimistic OR pessimistic view. 
I have a realistic view that it's unethical to start broadcasting that people definitely have nothing to worry about when you bloody well do NOT know that.

It might be several months or even longer before we have full certainty about all this. That can't be rushed just for PSYCHOLOGICAL biased reasons. 

[MrMuddle]

1 minute ago, Luckysilk said:

My God reading the negative crap on here how do you guys survive daily.

 

Based on some posts I really really hope the rules change and the poor guys have to leave.

By avoiding other farangs as much as possible ! 

[tukkytuktuk]

Well I've already put the house up for sale today, now I'm looking for somewhere to sell the car. I'm not waiting for details it seems very clear whats going on in this country right now. Time to move on.

[Spellforce]

2 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Well I've already put the house up for sale today, now I'm looking for somewhere to sell the car. I'm not waiting for details it seems very clear whats going on in this country right now. Time to move on.

I may understand you if they plan to change something about the VISA O done in Bangkok... show me somewhere in the previous articles where they talked about changing this ? The worse scenario is only to "replace" the 1 year VISA O-A done abroad by a new 5 years VISA. This is the worse scenario !

[elviajero]

25 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

Why don't they just SAY that, instead of leaving it to speculation? Many of us need time to get the hell OUT, if they are forcing us out.

The speculation is caused by bad reporting and compounded by speculation on that reporting.

 

The cabinet meeting proposal is public record and is clearly about the Non 'O-A' visa. No one is being forced out. It seems to me to be the opposite. They are offering the choice of a longer term visa/permit to stay that has long been asked for by expats.

 

[Spellforce]

Just now, Spellforce said:

The worse scenario is only to "replace" the 1 year VISA O-A done abroad by a new 5 years VISA. This is the worse scenario !

And "if" that happens then you'll do what all Iranians, Pakistans etc... are doing: you will come to Thailand with a 30 days Visa On Arrival, then VISA O in Bangkok (3 months), then n X 1 year extensions in your immigration office. Is it a real drama ?

[Jingthing]

About the medical insurance thingie, which clearly will be a requirement (at least) for people from the "rich list" nations using this yet to exist 5 year / 10 year visa.

It has a coverage minimum value requirement, I see, but what about preexisting conditions? An oldie may be able to buy a policy but because of health history have major things excluded such as cardio events and cancer. I'm not going to make any assumptions about whether that would be a problem or not as far as the visa application, but insurance-wise it's definitely an issue. Having insurance that doesn't actually cover what you're likely to need it for doesn't exactly protect the insurance holder or the Thai government trying to avoid burden cases. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[Luckysilk]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's total B.S.!

I don't have an optimistic OR pessimistic view. 
I have a realistic view that it's unethical to start broadcasting that people definitely have nothing to worry about when you bloody well do NOT know that.

It might be several months or even longer before we have full certainty about all this. That can't be rushed just for PSYCHOLOGICAL biased reasons. 

Your nothing more than someone screaming fire when they smell smoke in a theatre.

 

At least your consistent I'll give you and if you need a lift to the airport for your departure I'll send my driver. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Your nothing more than someone screaming fire when they smell smoke in a theatre.

 

At least your consistent I'll give you and if you need a lift to the airport for your departure I'll send my driver. 

I'm doing NOTHING of the kind and I consider your post extremely OBNOXIOUS. 

I'm simply saying don't make assumptions EITHER WAY and then present them as DEFINITE about the details about how this is going to shake out until we actually KNOW them.
You don't know them. I don't know them. The evidence I'm seeing now is that the Thai government doesn't even know everything about how this new thing will happen either. 

To speculate, to guess, is normal in this situation. To project you know for sure is just wrong. What you say may indeed turn out to be correct, but right now, it's simply PREMATURE. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry, but you're making up stuff.

There is a lot we don't know yet and it's simply MISLEADING a lot of worried people to push any kind of attitude that you do, or anyone does. It's not even clear to me that the Thai officials behind this have worked this all out, so you have? Doesn't wash.

I'm not making anything up!! We know enough from the cabinet proposal to know that it only relates to Non 'O-A' Visas. No proposal or announcement has been made regarding 1 year extensions of stay based on retirement.

 

Have you read the cabinet proposal?

 

I'm not misleading, but trying to help people being further confused and wound up by members like you. All you've managed to do is derail the topic and feed the paranoia!

[kharmabum]

read the writing on the wall.  the purpose of this new ten year visa isn't to give 50 and over people a better option.  it's to try and make it so people who were planning on getting the old retirement visa go the route of the elite visa instead.  better for them you should pay immigration $23,000  than keep it in a bank just to show it every year.  best case scenario for old timers is they grandfather you in/let you keep your current deal.  worst case scenario is they don't.  probably depends on how much $ immigration needs to fill the coffers each year to pay their own salaries.

[SpokaneAl]

If I am not mistaken- any American 65 or over has Medicare coverage and any citizen of the Uk  has NHS coverage. That covers any medical requirement- Show the insurance card to Immigration if asked.  There are also other ways to get insurance coverage in Thailand via the internet. Google is your friend.

Medicare cannot be used in Thailand.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Jingthing]

I'm feeding a rational response to a government change that has not been communicated in a way that addresses all of our concerns in detail. That rational response is do not tell people they are definitely not impacted by this change when you don't KNOW that for a fact. 

 

Speculation, guesses, words like "probably" ... that's different and definitely OK. I'm objecting to people being definite when they personally have no credibility or authority to really know that. 

 

This is a DIFFERENT situation than when we give advice to people about existing visa laws. We then can be fully DEFINITE in our advice. On this half baked change, we're not there yet, and really it might even be months or longer before we are. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm feeding a rational response to a government change that has not been communicated in a way that addresses all of our concerns in detail. That rational response is do not tell people they are definitely not impacted by this change when you don't KNOW that for a fact. 

The rational response is to read the cabinet proposal, understand that it relates to Non 'O-A' visas and not to speculate that this change will affect anything else.

[newnative]

They don't SAY that, Chip because they don't think they NEED to say it.  It's clear to them that this is a new visa option and doesn't eliminate anything else.  They're focused on this new visa option in the announcement, not anything else.  It's obvious to them that the other visa options are still available because, if nothing else, this new visa type is only available for 14 countries.     If Honda introduces a brand new large SUV model, when they give the press announcement  the focus will be on it, and it's unlikely they will mention anything about the Brio.  It's just assumed they are still making the Brio; no need to say, oh by the way,  the Brio is still being built. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The rational response is to read the cabinet proposal, understand that it relates to Non 'O-A' visas and not to speculate that this change will affect anything else.

You're speculating that it definitely won't without actually KNOWING that. That's fine if you openly indicate you're not speaking from a definite place. You might THINK you are, but you're really not. 

 

Another thing of concern is that the precedent for medical coverage is being made with this new thing. I'm speculating here (openly) that this may be a red flag that it may be applied to others. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Jingthing

[jeffcool]

1 hour ago, Chip Allen said:

Not true. Both Vietnam and Cambodia are making bids for retiree business. Both countries offer benefits not available here and Vietnam is quite a bit cheaper than Thailand. The only downside there is having to leave the country every ninety days. In Cambodia there is NO such requirement and the requirements they DO have are extremely reasonable. If I had wanted to retire in Cambodia, that's where I would have gone. The fact is, that I chose Thailand.Many have made the same decision. They don't deserve to be booted out with no consideration given to their circumstances. Thai elites believe we can ALWAYS come up with the money necessary and that is what drives this insanity.

Worked in Vietnam, north, not for me..... Been to Cambodia a few times a long time ago..... again not for me.....

 

With wifey being Thai, I can hardly ask her to move to the Khmer o the Vetcong....... Unless..... I change wifey..... Quite an idea.....

 

You got me thinking now..... Not necessarily joking here......

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, kharmabum said:

read the writing on the wall.  the purpose of this new ten year visa isn't to give 50 and over people a better option.  it's to try and make it so people who were planning on getting the old retirement visa go the route of the elite visa instead.  better for them you should pay immigration $23,000  than keep it in a bank just to show it every year.  best case scenario for old timers is they grandfather you in/let you keep your current deal.  worst case scenario is they don't.  probably depends on how much $ immigration needs to fill the coffers each year to pay their own salaries.

It's not only elite visa, it's a clear trend. They've said countless times it's "quality tourists" they want. That means the ones with $$$$. As a bonus, the rich ones don't roam about the hoi polloi introducing evil western ideals, they stay in their guarded castles. The elites want their ilk, not the scraps that come for the lower cost of life. 

 

A few decades ago the western hordes descended on Thailand and carved their own exclaves. Can't think of why that can't be done in another country again, say Myanmar or Vietnam. Thais are giving the farangs a gentle hint, better heed it. No biggie, just move along.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You're speculating that it definitely won't without actually KNOWING that. That's fine if you openly indicate you're not speaking from a definite place. You might THINK you are, but you're really not. 

Fact; the cabinet proposal relates to a change to the Non 'O-A' visa.

Fact; the cabinet proposal is not proposing any changes to extensions of stay.

 

I am not speculating about anything. It is perfectly reasonable to tell people nothing is changing with extensions of stay when no changes have been proposed. You and others are the speculators!