Thailand's New 10-Year Visas Meet Mixed Reactions

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Emergency treatment, for anyone, regardless of nationality, is a duty of care that the hospital has... hypocritical oath and all that.... elective treatment is different... and waiting lists will be required.

 

if you have a valid Medicare card, then you flash that, and you get outpatient services, or doctor surgery services.

 

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

( although social security is linked to immigration, and they will nail you if claiming social security benefits)

 

the 183 day rule is defunct... you have to pass a government test to be declared a non resident.... and it goes way beyond 183 days, in fact, I believe you have to be out of the country three years, to become a non resident, have demonstrable ties to the community you claim to live in ( eg... pattaya bridge club), a stable address etc etc

 

becoming a resident again is a much simpler thing, I just have to have an Australian address.... eg... my sisters ( yes... I'm over simplifying it, but not by much)

 

it is complicated, to be honest, but there are a lot of misconceptions, which is why reading some of the documents that the government provides, is worthwhile... and then you target loopholes, but maintain vigilant, as loopholes eventually close, which determines future actions

 

 

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

 

But, once there, what are they going to do with people that will die without treatment? Will they do the right thing and allow euthanasia on demand or make people go home and die screaming.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

 Only one small thing you may have overlooked Jack, is Medicare doesn't cover you once your out of the country for more than 183 days, so flying back to Oz for medical treatment will be at your expense.

Wrong.Prostate cancer treatment last year and straight in as well.

[farcanell]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

 

But, once there, what are they going to do with people that will die without treatment? Will they do the right thing and allow euthanasia on demand or make people go home and die screaming.

 

Government sponsored repatriation for Australians.

[Grubster]

3 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Well look what I found here, which is something completely different from what you claim.

 

http://www.advisoryhq.com/articles/retirement-income/

Average Retirement Income

---

It’s worth starting out by taking a look at the average retirement income. In 2012, the average retirement income for Americans aged 65 and older was $31,742. In 2014, the average monthly retirement income from social security alone was $1,294 per month. That ends up being only $15,528 per year. The average social security income for couples where both members received benefits was $25,681.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Anthony5

Is it really, This statistic counts everybody not just those who actually worked. Many of these people spent more time laying around than working. I said the average guy that worked forty years. I really don't care to argue about it.  I draw $5600 per Mo. after taxes and I was no rocket scientist.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

So what do you then do when health insurers choose who they want to take on, i.e. once you are older than 65 most drop your policy and if your fortunate enough like me to have a pre-existing condition that is so minuscule, they won't cover me, and if I returned to my place of birth for a procedure, the Medicare system no longer recognises me because although a citizen of that country, I am a non resident, talk about a shit storm, a tax payer of 40 years, thank you Australia, "the lucky country" my ass !!! 

You can have private health cover in Australia and not too expensive,considering hospital and surgeons cost.Why are you a non resident,we talked about this before.I did something about it.ATO website is your guide.

[rexall]

47 minutes ago, Goethe said:

You can be traced.

You can be traced if you provide your correct address . . . which of course criminals do not.  I don't think the 90 Day report is any big deal, but indeed I do resent being made to go through witless exercises.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

 

Remember, these are the same people that gave a programmer full access to their Immigration database, sensitive parts of which ended up plastered on the internet when some smart bunnies figured out the programmers password was "123456".

 

It really shouldn't be hard at all though. I shake my head when I do a 90 day report (which used to require various proofs of address each time) and, despite that desk having my full details, if I want a Residency Certificate, from a desk 4 meters away, I have to bring in photocopies of my passport and visa pages, and photocopies of "proof of address" again ! It's like each desk is a stand-alone system and none of them are tied into anyone else, which is pretty strange.

Every Immigration office should be connected to a master, National database. If I move to Nakhon Nowhere and report into the local Immigration office, they should be able to scan my passport (or departure card bar code) and presto ! All my details should be on the screen ready for editing or updating or document printing in a flash. If I sit down at the 90 Day desk and the IO updates my address details, when I pop over to another desk to get a new Residency Certificate I shouldn't have to reconfirm all those same details again.

 

If you are on a yearly visa, issue a Non-Immigrant ID card. The details are already in the computer, all that is required is to add a digital photo and then print it out on the card printer (took the driver's license place like 20 seconds to take my photo digitally and then print my new license). 

RFID chip in the card with name and address details encoded. Once a year (or if you change address) stop in at Immigration, run your card through a scanner (so they know you are still in the country and still alive) and bingo ! Good for another year ! (Well, got to renew the extension of stay as well. Maybe.) Allow long-stay foreigners to use that card as ID instead of their passport (for day-to-day matters). 

 

The technology is pretty much already in place. Sheesh, we were printing ID cards (no RFID chips) with security features (holograms and watermarked laminating film) in Kandahar a decade ago.  All that is really needed is a software update and the card printers.

 

This would make life a lot easier for the Immigration Officers everywhere as well as for the long-stay expats. More effective and more efficient equals fewer headaches, shorter queues, better management. 

You make way too much sense.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

With a heart attack or burst intestine, you're dead before the emergency evacuation gets you back to your home country.

$10,000!!!! Try $50,000 plus.You don't go buy yourself you know,doctor,nurse ect,would have to be a seat bed.That's if they let you on.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

 

By the time the system waits for you to regain consciousness, sign all the admittance forms, prove / approve payment,  organize an actual doctor who could perform the surgery, it may as well have been put in a travel bag, because you will be needing an artificial limb anyway.

 

the economical model is that self insurance, if you are disciplined enough, is a viable alternative, with the exception of an unknown catastrophy.

 

you get insurance because of the possibility of an unknown catastrophe, which most people don't suffer, and is why insurance companies make money.

 

everything is a risk.... a gamble... how you choose to hedge your bets is up to you.

Surin General Hospital had a Swede in a coma for a year,money ran out months earlier.Plus somebody has to have access to your money if your out for the count.Ok to self insure but somebody has to get the money out.

[anotheruser]

1 minute ago, louse1953 said:

Surin General Hospital had a Swede in a coma for a year,money ran out months earlier.Plus somebody has to have access to your money if your out for the count.Ok to self insure but somebody has to get the money out.

 

Better have 3 million Baht escrowed in a bank it seems. 

[Anthony5]

3 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

5 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Surin General Hospital had a Swede in a coma for a year,money ran out months earlier.Plus somebody has to have access to your money if your out for the count.Ok to self insure but somebody has to get the money out.

 

Better have 3 million Baht escrowed in a bank it seems. 

 

 

That qualifies for troll post of the year.

 

The OP clearly states that Health insurance is required, obviously one that covers Thailand, and they will take care of it if you have money in the bank or not.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

Stabilize and evacuate.  Not just evacuate.  $10K should more than cover that to anywhere, considering the insurance company will have a package-deal with the airlines, and the medical here is a fraction of the costs of anywhere in the West.  

If you have insurance.I thought we where talking about no insurance in Thailand and jumping on a plane and getting Medicare in Oz.It would cost thousands to stabalize a major medical problem in Thailand,depending on what hospital you get taken too.Some will not accept you if they can't handle the problem.Plus you can't get out til you pay.I know a farang that did a runner cos he couldn't pay.

[anotheruser]

14 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

That qualifies for troll post of the year.

 

The OP clearly states that Health insurance is required, obviously one that covers Thailand, and they will take care of it if you have money in the bank or not.

 

Thank you for the compliment. So what happens if the whopping $10,000 insurance coverage isn't enough to cover you if you are incapacitated? Then you would have 3 mil in the bank presumably they could use.

[farcanell]

23 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Surin General Hospital had a Swede in a coma for a year,money ran out months earlier.Plus somebody has to have access to your money if your out for the count.Ok to self insure but somebody has to get the money out.

 

True... in my case that would be either my expat wife or Australian lawyer/ brother... you gotta have a plan.

[brain150]

What the Government Leadership of this country is planning seems to be very obvious.

It can be seen not only in retirement visas but also in Non B or Non O visas as well as work permits.

 

They are trying to get the [for them] not rich enough foreigners out of the country ! Simple as that.

The average pension in Germany is at 1,200 euro/month [44,400.00 THB/month / UK about 63,000 THB/month and the US about 52,500 THB/month]] which means that the average pension in germany, the UK or the US does NOT qualify for a Non O extension in Thailand !!! [Requirement: 65,000 THB/month !!!]

 

To get a 1 year deposit of 3 Mio THB into a fixed bank account is nothing else than a free loan to the Government ... a Government's wet dream I guess.

 

The average salary in Thailand is below 15,000 THB/month !

 

The whole discussion is completely useless !

It becomes even worse when people who have more money think they are superior to people who worked all their lives and sadly

end up with just the average pension !!! ... like most of the people who created the wealth in europe with hard labour after the war

and ended up being <deleted> over by their Governments ! [Honest work just doesn't pay the high dividends ...]

 

The world has become a place where money is everything and the Thai Governm  Leadership has completely lost its mind on how much money they can get out of people who come to this country !!! [both in retirement and as tourists]

 

The wake up call will come and the landing will not be a soft one ! ... and it's coming fast !!!

[sambum]

1 hour ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Worried your pension will run short?

 

So you're a sick senior citizen and the government says

there is no nursing home available for you -

What do you do?

Senior Health Care Solution:

Our plan gives anyone 66 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. 


You are allowed to shoot 2 MP's and 2 illegal immigrants!


Of course, this means you will be sent to prison,

where you will get 3 meals a day,

a roof over your head, central heating, Cable TV, air conditioning

smoking room and you still get to vote,

and all the health care you need!

New teeth? - No problem.

Need glasses? - Great.

New hip, knees, kidney, lungs, heart?

All covered.

And your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.

Who will be paying for all of this?

The same government that just told you

that you they cannot afford for you to go into a home. 

Plus, because you are a prisoner,

you don't have to pay income tax any more.

IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?

No wonder the rest of the world’s population can't get here fast enough!

 

Ain't the world a strange place?

 

Think you forgot Council Tax!

[Anthony5]

8 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Thank you for the compliment. So what happens if the whopping $10,000 insurance coverage isn't enough to cover you if you are incapacitated? Then you would have 3 mil in the bank presumably they could use.

 

Where in the article is there any mention about a $10.000 insurance cover?

 

Money in a escrow account can't be accessed by anyone by the way.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

 

Emergency treatment, for anyone, regardless of nationality, is a duty of care that the hospital has... hypocritical oath and all that.... elective treatment is different... and waiting lists will be required.

 

if you have a valid Medicare card, then you flash that, and you get outpatient services, or doctor surgery services.

 

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

( although social security is linked to immigration, and they will nail you if claiming social security benefits)

 

the 183 day rule is defunct... you have to pass a government test to be declared a non resident.... and it goes way beyond 183 days, in fact, I believe you have to be out of the country three years, to become a non resident, have demonstrable ties to the community you claim to live in ( eg... pattaya bridge club), a stable address etc etc

 

becoming a resident again is a much simpler thing, I just have to have an Australian address.... eg... my sisters ( yes... I'm over simplifying it, but not by much)

 

it is complicated, to be honest, but there are a lot of misconceptions, which is why reading some of the documents that the government provides, is worthwhile... and then you target loopholes, but maintain vigilant, as loopholes eventually close, which determines future actions

 

 

You should read a bit more.The 183 day rule does apply if you are leaving the country permanantly and declare your self a non resident.It is self accessing,you don''t "have"to pass a test.If ATO ask questions,you fill out the self accessing form.If they still ask questions you better have covered your arse.

[anotheruser]

2 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Where in the article is there any mention about a $10.000 insurance cover?

 

Money in a escrow account can't be accessed by anyone by the way.

 

It pretty much said they want you to have insurance coverage for $10,000. Okay you get me escrow was the wrond word it is a 'time' account. Which becomes pretty convenient for Thai banks if you can not access it while you are in a coma. They get to keep the money while people argue about who it goes to in the event you pass away.

Edited November 24, 2016 by anotheruser

[louse1953]

33 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

That qualifies for troll post of the year.

 

The OP clearly states that Health insurance is required, obviously one that covers Thailand, and they will take care of it if you have money in the bank or not.

But the money runs out on a lot of insurances,what happens then.An Ozzy lad died of infection because his travel insurance money ran out and he was told to leave they hospital.Died whilst going to his Thai home to get his passport.

[louse1953]

27 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

True... in my case that would be either my expat wife or Australian lawyer/ brother... you gotta have a plan.

You gotta have a plan,in writing.Power of attorney and maybe living will and a normal will.

Edited November 24, 2016 by louse1953

[anotheruser]

3 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

You gotta have a plan,in writing.Power of attorney and maybe living will.

 

Couldn't find a better meme online but here is one that will make sense to anybody that has seen the Shawshank Redemption....

 

I am too lazy to custom create a meme that says "Do you trust your wife?".

[sheldoncollier]

Why would anyone keep 3 million in the bank? What a waist.

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

You should read a bit more.The 183 day rule does apply if you are leaving the country permanantly and declare your self a non resident.It is self accessing,you don''t "have"to pass a test.If ATO ask questions,you fill out the self accessing form.If they still ask questions you better have covered your arse.

 

 I have read several case law reports... if you don't return to oz, your fine... if you go back, you can be challenged, as shown by case law.

 

you must be able to prove foreign domicile to be considered non resident... this is not nessesarily time related, though the longer the better... and their is a "test" to prove foreign domicile.

 

the 183 day law was challenged successfully by the ATO, due to the amount of month on month off workers, residing in Australia, but not paying tax in Australia, simply by virtue of working offshore.

 

these workers are now subject to dual residency tax, in that they pay tax in the country they work in, and any shortfalls per Australian requirements, are then payable in Australia... eg... Australian tax burden for an offshore worker may be deemed to be 40,000..., 10000 of which was paid in Egypt, for example... they still now have to pay 30000 to the ATO.

 

but I'm happy for you to have your way... my way.... I can't be successfully challenged when I return to Australia.... so I'm happy... and your happy... it's just like a fairy tale ending

[farcanell]

39 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

You gotta have a plan,in writing.Power of attorney and maybe living will and a normal will.

 

You got it.... prior planning prevents pee poor performance

 

having a tax lawyer in the family is an advantage though.... my will dictates inheritance thru two generations. ?

[Torrens54]

There was in fact, a very good Thai Government Health Insurance Scheme for Foreigners, introduced by the Previous Government.

 

Many foreigners, in particular those with a Thai Family, in Good Faith enrolled in the scheme but "Someone" pulled-the pin on it and left us all languishing without any coverage as we had already (again in Good Faith) cancelled our policies with other Insurers. What do we do now if we can't get Insurance because of age and/or existing conditions?

 

Do we just "die in the streets of Thailand" or send our families Bankrupt?

[Walter Travolta]

I am approaching my 50s and still living in the UK. I came to live in Thailand 2 years ago but did not work out. So rather than stay and blow my cash and then leap from a high rise at 55, I decided to come back, work and see where I am in a few years, and more importantly, where Thailand is in a few years. 

 

The conditions of this visa are pretty harsh, and the insurance issue has always been something that has prayed on my mind, as in, will they just say Im not covered for x, y or z if I become ill? Insurance companies will try the hardest to get out of a claim (in my opinion this makes them as guilty as scam insurance claims but thats another topic). So after a claim has been declined that you thought you were covered for, you have lost all those premiums and now need to find a more honest insurance company, who do you trust after that anyway??

 

I look like I have gone off topic regarding the 10 year visa but . . . 

 

For me once I am in my 50s I have 2 choices

 

1) Use the immigration office every 3 months as that seems to work

2) Spend 6 months in Thailand and 6 months in the UK thus still benefitting from the NHS. I just hope that if I do become seriously ill, it is in the UK

 

[Stargeezr]

Why not treat us tourists the same as Mexico and other modern countries

are doing. Three month stay  no visa  required. Longer stays  visas with set

rates for single or multiple entries. Oh  sorry  I  forgot,  this is Thailand that

we are talking about.  What was I thinking,  modernize  is an English word.

Geezer

[DogNo1]

Indeed!  Why not have 1, 2, 3 and 5-year visas available and just a residence card issued for your permanent abode by the local city office connected to a national computerized registry.  No reporting should be required unless you move your permanent abode.  Immigration should report your departures and arrivals through their computer system.  With this information available on a national database and investigative police work done when required, everyone except those who are trying to thwart the system should be locatable.  Criminals who do thwart the system should be deported and banned.

See a recent article in the Japan Times about how illegals and their children born in Japan are handled.  In short, they are deported.  Children of illegals don't become legal because they were born in Japan.  The WHOLE FAMILY is illegal.  The article is available in today's Japan Times which is available on the Web.

If Thailand really wants to keep track of its foreign residents well, it should install the computer infrastructure to do it.

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I think the 3 million cannot be touched for the 1st year, I wouldn't have an issue with leaving 3 million locked in an account for self insuring, the only reason I don't have health insurance is they won't touch my mild pre-existing condition, that and they can cancel a policy whenever they want, i.e. the odds stacked against you IMO

They also appear to want to control or limit what you can spend it on after that year, and limit you to only 50% of it! I wonder whether their intention is to also ensure you have finances for a medical event beyond or not in the scope of the now obligated medical insurance.  There were a series of events in the past where gravely ill Expats without finances were in hospitals being cared for and the hospitals were complaining of the millions of lost baht..

 

You may well be able to get cover but obviously with exclusions, in my case the exclusions with a couple of providers were everything I had concern about.