Cost of living in Thailand

[EvenSteven]

11 minutes ago, Elkski said:

By the way why is beer so expensive in Thailand.  Its all crap...

 

Indeed.  I can go just about anywhere in the States to get a decent beer in a bar for $2/70 baht.  Try that in Thailand.  Who said Thailand is noticeably cheaper, unless you want to live in room the size of a closet and share a bathroom and eat from the street like a homeless person, to tell others how cheap it is in Thailand?   And anyone can do that in the States too.  But we call those places slums.

[EvenSteven]

8 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

What you have to also feed the maid?? lol

 

Nah, she takes what she can.  lol  After all, when the wages are as low as they are in Thailand, can we blame her?

[Prbkk]

On 27/11/2016 at 11:51 AM, lostinisaan said:

  I can buy a hotdog on the street in America for the same price as street/cart food in Thailand and have less chance of falling ill.

 

     A hotdog that contains 85 fat, water, and some other stuff you don't wanna know about?

 

       What you're missing are the eye candies, the climate, culture, smiles, the beaches, plus a lot more.

 

         Enjoy your hotdog, sir. 

 

       

 

        

 

True but most Americans are a bit more discerning about street food choices these days: they line up for a felafel sandwich at a cart and tend to bypass the hotdog stand ( a good choice, all things considered).

It's still (barely) possible to get a decent Deli/Diner meal for 12-15 USD, cheap when taking into account income levels. Europe even cheaper.

[Elkski]

how is a 10$ maid 4 times a month 200$...  that sounds like 3000 baht of extra services? 

[NeverSure]

2 hours ago, anotheruser said:

That's the thing the price to rent in the USA is relatively high. Yet, the price to own in some areas is very reasonable. The 75 sq/m condo I live in Bangkok is 50K a month. The building is okay but it is five years old and falling apart already.

 

-snip-

 

 

When the housing market crashed in 2007-2008 many people not only lost their homes but their credit rating was ruined. They had to live somewhere so they rented. Many still can't or won't buy. Many waited too long until home prices rose back to about where they were before the crash and they still don't have a down payment.

 

You are right. With a near record low of home ownership and so many renters, rent is through the roof in most places. I could easily rent each of my two spare bedrooms for upwards of $600 per month but I don't want the hubbub. I could rent my house through an agency for $2,000 per month and move to a grass house in Isaan, LOL.

 

I've mentioned a couple of times in another thread that if I was poor I'd move to the rural deep South US and buy a double wide mobile on its own land for about 20K or so and even then I could rent spare bedrooms.

 

I'm really lucky that I own my home, have no debts and a decent income and can just coast on out of here.

 

Cheers.

[EvenSteven]

1 hour ago, anotheruser said:

 ... you will be crying about the price of Jiff creamy peanut butter. 

 

There is the price of another item that shocked me.  At least double, maybe triple what we pay in the US.  Yes sir, Thailand is cheap alright, if you want to live in a third world country with 1st and 2nd world prices.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, EvenSteven said:

 

There is the price of another item that shocked me.  At least double, maybe triple what we pay in the US.  Yes sir, Thailand is cheap alright, if you want to live in a third world country with 1st and 2nd world prices.

 

Anything that is imported is expensive, locally made peanut butter (Tida's Bear) is equally as good and way way cheaper.

[Elkski]

So in my next trip I guess about 20 cans skippy super crunch ( its about 4$ per 1.36kg jar at costco)  and 20# cheese?

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, anotheruser said:

If you move/retire to Thailand with less than $3,000 a month in the 21st century,  then you are making a reckless decision. Later you will find when you loose your teeth you will be crying about the price of Jiff creamy peanut butter. 

 

Thailand is also making it clear they don't want the death pats anymore. Cambodia is the new spot.

 

Only if the expat wants to live an identical life style to back home, eating and drinking the same items in similar places. Surely one of the most important parts of being an expat is to adapt to local conditions, who says an expat has to shop at Villa and Tops every time, who says that the same foodstuffs purchased back home must still be eaten here, if people can't break from those traditions they are perhaps not best suited to being an expat in the first place.

 

Again, we live very comfortably each month on USD 1,500 a month and really we want for nothing - we earn more than that but the money just gets banked although I know of others who can't afford that luxury and they get by just fine.

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Only if the expat wants to live an identical life style to back home, eating and drinking the same items in similar places. Surely one of the most important parts of being an expat is to adapt to local conditions, who says an expat has to shop at Villa and Tops every time, who says that the same foodstuffs purchased back home must still be eaten here, if people can't break from those traditions they are perhaps not best suited to being an expat in the first place.

 

Again, we live very comfortably each month on USD 1,500 a month and really we want for nothing - we earn more than that but the money just gets banked although I know of others who can't afford that luxury and they get by just fine.

We are moving in the end of February. Tons of research and dozens of trips to Thailand for a month or more over the last 20 years and we came to the realization that 1000-1500 USD per month would be very doable. Is it possible to spend $3000 or $6000 or more per month, heck yes but it can be done (comfortably) for much, much less.

 

If you only read Thai Visa for your source of information you would have a very negatively skewed idea of how much money it takes to retire comfortably in Thailand. Heck if I went by what I read on this forum I would not be moving in February of next year, or possibly even in the next 8 years (or ever). As one of the earlier posters (on this or another thread) stated if you only eat western food and only associate with other expats, what is the point of living in Thailand over living somewhere else where cheese and wine are cheaper?

[Naam]

4 hours ago, EvenSteven said:

Cherry picking.  Continue on.

perhaps Cherries for you, for me hard facts.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

We are moving in the end of February. Tons of research and dozens of trips to Thailand for a month or more over the last 20 years and we came to the realization that 1000-1500 USD per month would be very doable. Is it possible to spend $3000 or $6000 or more per month, heck yes but it can be done (comfortably) for much, much less.

 

If you only read Thai Visa for your source of information you would have a very negatively skewed idea of how much money it takes to retire comfortably in Thailand. Heck if I went by what I read on this forum I would not be moving in February of next year, or possibly even in the next 8 years (or ever). As one of the earlier posters (on this or another thread) stated if you only eat western food and only associate with other expats, what is the point of living in Thailand over living somewhere else where cheese and wine are cheaper?

 

Exactly, nobody is suggesting that expats immediately transform their western lifestyle into a rice and bug eating diet overnight, but equally, nobody is suggesting people shouldn't change and adapt to some degree. After fifteen years here there's nothing I crave from the West any longer except on occasion, a pint of London Pride real ale. I'm equally happy these days eating Thai and western food, snacking on a plate of Pad Thai or Cow Pad Gai as I used to be snacking on burgers subs and hot dogs. I still buy some western food but usually will only do so if I think it's reasonably priced compared to the alternatives, good cheese may be the one exception. As for eating out: there are bakeries here that rival the best I've seen anywhere in the world (nana bakery CM) and they're not at all expensive; Thai pork is of the best quality I've experienced anywhere and also not inexpensive by any measure; the vegetables sold in Thai markets, especially rural ones are the freshest you can find and dirt cheap. We (2 people) spend about 7k baht a month at the supermarket and we eat very very well, it helps if you or your wife are good cooks, mine is excellent. Of course you can spend 15k/20k a month in the supermarket if you want to, most people don't however.

[Naam]

7 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Just to add when I said people of certain income levels I meant both the top and bottom ends of the spectrum. Naam seems to make avail of such services as gardeners and maids which will be expensive outside of SE Asia. 

 

So he is a case of somebody well off that finds Thailand inexpensive. 

plus the tax advantages! federal taxes in the U.S. are compared to Europe quite fair, but when adding property taxes and state taxes some of the U.S. states are not too far away from the percentages one pays in Europe especially if you prefer to live in a "real" home instead of the proverbial shoebox.

[Naam]

6 hours ago, EvenSteven said:

 

Indeed.  As I was saying, you get what you pay for.  Labour is noticeably cheaper in Thailand, but would you contract-out the building of a new house in the US to a Thai construction company?  Or even bring over a Thai electrician, plumber, or carpenter to work on your house in the US?

building in Thailand i was lucky to have an excellent electrician, an excellent carpenter and the tile work (especially marble) in our home is, at a fraction of the cost, classes better than in my home country or the U.S.

 

did i mention that i had Thailand's sh*ttiest plumber? 4 out of 7 water heaters in/out mixed up, 2 bathrooms leakage in the walls, 4 bidets hooked up to toilet sewage without u-trap. yes, much more went wrong inspite of me being for 11 months the first one on the site and the last one to leave. but it's the result and of course the $$$ bottom line that counts.

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, Elkski said:

100 gallons is a bit high but with gas under 2.50 and not 4$+ it is nice to cruise the safe highways and roads in USA. 

I got divorced 3 years ago so I was looking for rooms and houses to rent. 1500$/mo is a dump of a 2-3 bedroom house with a garage and not in a nice quiet safe area.  I guess safe is a relative term.  2000$ is more like it.

 

And yes I am comparing my life now and or  downsizing to a 1500$ place where I would have to sell or store 50% of my junk.   IF I go to Thailand I would sell it all and be  ok in a 2-3 bdrm place in Thailand.

I am a very frugal person.  I eat a nice American diet and cook quite a bit at home.  I do eat out but never at Hi SO places.. my idea of a nice dinner would be 15-20$ per person without drinks. 

I prefer to drink at home due to higher cost at a bar or restaurant.

 

By the way why is beer so expensive in Thailand.  Its all crap... Why cant they brew some nice hoppy IPA's for the same price as a imported Heineken? 

Quick question.  I know you've been to Thailand before, but how much time have you spent here?  What parts?  I know my view of Thailand changed drastically once I lived here permanently and owned a home and a vehicle, etc.  Before that, just renting an apartment, and not staying for long periods of time, things were drastically different.

 

Moving here and selling everything before the move is what we did.  You then have a large outlay of cash ahead of you to get your new place setup.  Many things are not cheap here.  Like good beds, quality bedding, towels, appliances, furniture, etc.  Easy to get by with the cheap stuff, but it's just that.  Really cheap.  Quality stuff is hard to find and expensive.  My brother visits here every year for a few weeks.  He brings a large suitcase full of stuff for us every years.  Electronics, bedding, towels, sports stuff, etc.

 

We are like you.  Eat mainly at home, and when we do eat out, it's at a nice place.  I've been here long enough that the food courts are no longer interesting nor is sitting on a small plastic chair on the side of the road eating from a cart.  The quality of the ingredients is not good, nor are the health standards.  My wife is Thai and doesn't like these options either.  So, she cooks!  Lucky me.

 

As for booze, it's crazy expensive here.  Due to domination by 2 players, who are very rich individuals and keep import duties at 300%.  Wine is ridiculous as is imported beer.  The local beer is fair, and expensive.

 

As has been pointed out by others, what about moving to another part of the US?  Many options are available.  With rents much lower than what you are saying. 

 

Weather is also a potential problem here.  Starting in April, it gets blazing hot.  We tend to leave every year at that time.  Also, in the fall when the rains come.  Right now is the perfect time to be here, for the next 3-4 months.

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

So in my next trip I guess about 20 cans skippy super crunch ( its about 4$ per 1.36kg jar at costco)  and 20# cheese?

 

A 3 lb jar of peanut butter, how long does that last, all year!

[JAFO]

11 hours ago, anotheruser said:

I don't come time and time again to refute those that say they do it cheaper. Jafo does it much cheaper than I do but seems to comprehend what I am talking about. 

 

I do completely understand what you are saying Anotheruser,  This is why my cost post wasn't comparing it to anywhere in Thailand specifically, its what I am doing and what drove me to the decisions I did to move here. But as I said, it wasn't all about the monetary aspect either. I think far to often many over look that aspect. I enjoy hearing from all folks on this subject. I admire the guy that is happy with his lot in life and is his COL is 20K baht. Isn't life all about what makes one happy? And to your point, Yes my COL is quite low for what I have and do but again it was a long term plan. Honestly I sat with my wife I said " I want our financial plan set up that my SS will allow us to live quite comfortably". This way the other investments and so on are all upside. So I looked at what it would take to achieve that monthly cash burn rate and as you saw from the numbers its right there. 

 

10 hours ago, Elkski said:

Being employed or not is much  different  creature. Once a man of any age begins to seriously look at dropping out of the workforce and is trying to decide if he has enough for his lifestyle to last it is quite serious for those of us to plan not to run out and end up in the trash cans.. I do enjoy street food and wet markets are a big reason for me to consider Thailand..  Considering Thailand or any strange  but lower cost country (I read Panama is #1) is a big unknown, hence my passion for reading threads like these.    Even if its 25% less to retire in Thailand that is quite a few working years a man can quit early..  I am 56 and so looking at making the move at 57 is a big difference in lifestyle choice  than working another 8 years on the USA tread mill.   Being a early retired person in the USA is not considered a popular career choice by many. 

 

I absolutely agree Elski, once we set a date to retire the deep dive into a financial plan begins. The single biggest challenge I found when I did mine was how will I adjust to a controlled income. Then I realized I was living with one before in the US I just had more crap to feel like I wasn't.  Now I didn't do what many do and radically downsize and pack what I thought I wanted in a few suit cases figuring I would just buy here and wing it. Being I had been here for quite a few years prior for work I had compiled a list and gave this great thought. This is why my wife and I did the 40 ft container and moved what we wanted here. Sure I parted with somethings but nothing I wasn't already tired of. The container was the best thing we did. I had no intentions of moving here and going without or living in a 1 bedroom condo until I died. It may work for some but I grew up with a house and land and wanted similar life style here because I knew once I retired I wanted my hobbies. It took me 3+ years to plot it all out basing it on what I believe I will want to do once retired. Again it wasn't about sitting around in a hammock drinking my life away but more about doing what I want on my terms. Your comment about retiring early not being a popular career choice in the US is so true. But I will say all the people that frowned on it or criticized it are neck deep in debt and can not fathom being financially independent. Sadly most people in the US cannot comprehend financial freedom, most will die in debt and many fear being homeless. That's a fact. So as one US guy to another who has slowed the work treadmill down where I will step off soon, I applaud you. Me working in Thailand was all part of my plan to retire. This afforded me the opportunity to acclimate and establish myself while having a US salary here. I could walk today but I do not see any need to at this juncture. The job is fun, I like my staff, I do things with them on weekends, my Thai is getting better and better every day. My wife and I do what we want. This aligns with my point about its much bigger then moving here because its perceived to be much cheaper. 

[Elkski]

I can eat a jar that size in a couple months I imagine.  But I use it in spurts.   I was going to sell them to those interested or use them as presents. Lol

I also wanted to say most beers at a bar are 4-5$ with 7$ for micro brews at some bars common.  At my local dive bar they have 2$ tall boy Pabst blue ribbons.   But is that beer?    I am guessing barley as well as hops would need to be imported?

[derator01]

3 hours ago, metisdead said:

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

 

And to add. Please, no personal attacks against other members.  It is against forum rules.

 

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

building in Thailand i was lucky to have an excellent electrician, an excellent carpenter and the tile work (especially marble) in our home is, at a fraction of the cost, classes better than in my home country or the U.S.

 

Same here Naam. We searched and found a professional General Contractor and we went and saw his builds and spoke with  his clients. Our house is built exceptionally well and is custom to the plans my wife and I designed. In the US to have a custom home built takes a small fortune and then of course comes the tax assessment. After that is material cost and the time to do it. As you, the quality of our tile and marble work is top notch at a fraction of what that would have cost in the US as well. We found a Teakwood craftsman that hand made all our doors, crown molding, window trim, stair railings etc for an incredibly affordable price. You can't even find wood craftsman in the US any more. Everything is pressed particle board or cheap laminate. For us our house is WAY better then the house we had in the US at a fraction of the cost and no property tax. 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I can eat a jar that size in a couple months I imagine.  But I use it in spurts.   I was going to sell them to those interested or use them as presents. Lol

I also wanted to say most beers at a bar are 4-5$ with 7$ for micro brews at some bars common.  At my local dive bar they have 2$ tall boy Pabst blue ribbons.   But is that beer?    I am guessing barley as well as hops would need to be imported?

 

I wonder how fair this comparison really is, comparing a mature and fully developed, open and free consumer based society of what 320 million, with a GDP per capita of $55k, against a newly emerging economy of 70 million where the GDP per capita is only $6k, the competition and market size factors alone should dictate there's going to be a price/cost difference.

[craigt3365]

15 minutes ago, JAFO said:

 

Same here Naam. We searched and found a professional General Contractor and we went and saw his builds and spoke with  his clients. Our house is built exceptionally well and is custom to the plans my wife and I designed. In the US to have a custom home built takes a small fortune and then of course comes the tax assessment. After that is material cost and the time to do it. As you, the quality of our tile and marble work is top notch at a fraction of what that would have cost in the US as well. We found a Teakwood craftsman that hand made all our doors, crown molding, window trim, stair railings etc for an incredibly affordable price. You can't even find wood craftsman in the US any more. Everything is pressed particle board or cheap laminate. For us our house is WAY better then the house we had in the US at a fraction of the cost and no property tax. 

Getting good workers is a big problem here.  I'd hate to think of how many gutter repair guys we've had!  We finally found a good one and now his number has changed!  Plus, if you don't speak Thai, good luck.  Very difficult to have a home here without Thai language skills.

[Naam]

8 minutes ago, JAFO said:

For us our house is WAY better then the house we had in the US at a fraction of the cost and no property tax. 

bingo! no flimsy framed walls, no matchstick roof structure but steel, no sanded bitumen shingles nailed on plywood but proper roof tiles...

[chiang mai]

Just now, Naam said:

bingo! no flimsy framed walls, no matchstick roof structure but steel, no sanded bitumen shingles nailed on plywood but proper roof tiles...

 

Indeed, there's nothing quite like having a 1 inch layer of heat retaining concrete sited on steel rafter and joists over your head in the Tropics!

 

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

bingo! no flimsy framed walls, no matchstick roof structure but steel, no sanded bitumen shingles nailed on plywood but proper roof tiles...

For your house maybe, but many houses here are built with that cheap red brick stuff.  Steel yes, but that's because of the termites! LOL

[JAFO]

11 hours ago, Elkski said:

Maybe the best thing to do is to downsize and stay in the US but share it with  Thai women who will appreciate it all and not be like a spoiled American Woman. 

 

You know how many times I have heard that statement from now divorced men that brought their seemingly innocent Asian wives to the US and tried to go small. Give it some time. She has been there 2 weeks. She is enjoying the rush like you did visiting Thailand. My wife was same way. Was mesmerized by it all. But after 2 years she saw the COL and what they took from my check and it wasn't so glamorous anymore. She found a job and her first check  she was livid on how much they took from her and unlike Thailand with the Mai Pen rai attitude people in the US don't view it that way at all. They are intense and have outrageous expectations for service etc. Wait until your gal gets yelled at by someone or harassed. She will be terribly confused. My wife had a few incidents in some stores and I had too step in. I asked my wife very openly at dinner celebrating her citizenship accomplishment and said now that you are a citizen do you want to stay in the US or move back to Thailand.?We can do either and I am OK with it but did say that staying here in the US would require I work a lot longer and we will have to live our lives in weekends and once I retire we will have to move to another place to reduce the COL. She took less than 5 minutes and said Lets go back to Thailand. I said OK with me. 

 

I saw the pics posted of "Beautiful Town USA" and compared to what appears to be some street in Pattaya. Its Ok, that's how  the posters see it. People that live elsewhere know it's not all like that. Just like I know in the US there are utter shitholes in Ghetto areas. I could dig up some pics and refute those pics but no point. People will fixate on what they want too. And to that point just like in the US, its all about location location location.

[Elkski]

What is that red brick wall stuff.   Very thin and just Hodge podge cemented together for walls and plastered over.  Grooves for wiring.   I looked at a few houses in phitsanuluk.    

[chiang mai]

Just now, Elkski said:

What is that red brick wall stuff.   Very thin and just Hodge podge cemented together for walls and plastered over.  Grooves for wiring.   I looked at a few houses in phitsanuluk.    

 

Ask yourself what is the purpose of those walls, they are not load bearing as they would be in the West, they are not double walled to prevent moisture and cold, they are simply there to stop people seeing into your living room and a surface on which to hang pictures.

[JAFO]

12 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Getting good workers is a big problem here.  I'd hate to think of how many gutter repair guys we've had!  We finally found a good one and now his number has changed!  Plus, if you don't speak Thai, good luck.  Very difficult to have a home here without Thai language skills.

 

I agree. You definitely have to do your homework and be patient. My wife was very diligent and did a ton of research. I have seen a bunch of really bad house builds go terribly wrong. Most use family members to build them and that is extremely problematic. I think honestly a lot of the success many of us men have here is based on the women they met. I say openly, I would not be enjoying being here as much as I do without my wife. Sure I was here alone for 5 years prior to meeting her and got by fine but I wasn't on any path to call Thailand "Home" so it was easy to just do what I did in BKK.

[mania]

5 minutes ago, Elkski said:

What is that red brick wall stuff.   Very thin and just Hodge podge cemented together for walls and plastered over.  Grooves for wiring.   I looked at a few houses in phitsanuluk.    

 

As CM mentioned they are not load bearing

Notice they do a (concrete) post & beam style of building in Thailand

Similar to the old days in the southern west when single wall homes existed

 

Difference being in Thailand it is all concrete vs wood post & beam old west style

The red brick you see is just a fill to later skim coat with concrete etc

 

Seems fine but watching them build anything over a couple floors high I think I would pity Thailand in any decent earthquake

........but I hope I am wrong