What Nationality Is He?

[brewsterbudgen]

as do i as well .. getting my son's Australian Passport and Citizenship by Descent Certificate was a walk in the park .. just fill out a few forms .. no mention of his mother (who is Cambodian) except to get her name, DoB and Citizenship correct (which can be done with either her passport or Cambodian ID Card) .. took 12 days to get the Citizenship Certificate and then another 2 weeks to get his passport and "bob's your uncle" .. so to speak .. we have traveled on a few occasions and immigration have never questioned anything .. the first exit (as he had no entry stamp in his clan passport) immigration had a look at his Thai Birth Certificate (with NON-THAI status) and proceeded to stamp him in as of his date of birth .. then stamped him out ..  

Sounds much like how it works for UK passports. Just have to show one parent is British Otherwise than by Descent, mother's Lao passport and the baby's Thai birth certificate (translated) and the passport was issued inside 3 weeks. Leaving Thailand just required presenting the virgin passport and birth certificate.

[PattayaAJF]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Sounds much like how it works for UK passports. Just have to show one parent is British Otherwise than by Descent, mother's Lao passport and the baby's Thai birth certificate (translated) and the passport was issued inside 3 weeks. Leaving Thailand just required presenting the virgin passport and birth certificate.

 

as it should be .. we do share a Queen and somewhat common heritage .. altho' we can't say the same about cricket or rugby .. 

[PattayaAJF]

24 minutes ago, PattayaAJF said:

as do i as well .. getting my son's Australian Passport and Citizenship by Descent Certificate was a walk in the park .. just fill out a few forms .. no mention of his mother (who is Cambodian) except to get her name, DoB and Citizenship correct (which can be done with either her passport or Cambodian ID Card) .. took 12 days to get the Citizenship Certificate and then another 2 weeks to get his passport and "bob's your uncle" .. so to speak .. we have traveled on a few occasions and immigration have never questioned anything .. the first exit (as he had no entry stamp in his clan passport) immigration had a look at his Thai Birth Certificate (with NON-THAI status) and proceeded to stamp him in as of his date of birth .. then stamped him out ..  

 

actually i forgot to mention that on the 1st exit the immigration officer also wrote on his exit stamp that he had overstayed but was exempt from penalty .. or something to that effect ..  

[bandito]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 5:55 PM, Dazinoz said:

 

You are correct I have never considered taking the baby away from his mother. I am just concerned about his legal future with no nationality.

 

With no nationality is he stateless. He can go to basic school for 6 years, but he can not participate in any school functions or school trips.

He also won't be accepted  at a college or university.

Will not be drafted for militairy service.

He will be a pariah in Thailand with no rights.

[MikeyIdea]

On 04/12/2016 at 0:42 PM, Puyai said:

Yes that is correct. We do have the same surnames and I am named as the father on the birth certificate.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

If you do that again on a blank passport and without the mother today, then you will be denied with the new rules that has been implemented

 

And I think it is great that Thailand is enforcing child abduction controls nowadays

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

If you do that again on a blank passport and without the mother today, then you will be denied with the new rules that has been implemented

 

And I think it is great that Thailand is enforcing child abduction controls nowadays

 

 

    What are the new rules ?

 

[sanemax]

10 hours ago, bandito said:

 

With no nationality is he stateless. He can go to basic school for 6 years, but he can not participate in any school functions or school trips.

He also won't be accepted  at a college or university.

Will not be drafted for militairy service.

He will be a pariah in Thailand with no rights.

 

    Stateless people are treated like all other kids in the school , in the school that my families stateless members go to anyway .

   One of the stateless kids obtained Thai ID when he turned 16 .

Prayruth also recently stated that ALL children in Thai schools shall be given Thai ID

[MaxiMaxi]

A part of Thai birth registration, shouldn't then be a registration at each parent's embassy? To decide then later after major age which nationality he wants or can be?? So each parent can include the child in the respective passport and the mother can apply a passport issued at Myanmar embassy or just put in father's passport to go in and out with or without mother...

[PattayaAJF]

3 minutes ago, MaxiMaxi said:

A part of Thai birth registration, shouldn't then be a registration at each parent's embassy? To decide then later after major age which nationality he wants or can be?? So each parent can include the child in the respective passport and the mother can apply a passport issued at Myanmar embassy or just put in father's passport to go in and out with or without mother...

 

when we received my son's "NON-THAI" birth certificate the girl at the amphur told us to take his birth certificate to the Australian (for me) and the Cambodian (for his mother) embassies to get his citizenship papers .. however even though she told us to do that there was no "specific requirement" as such .. however of course we did that because we don't intend to stay in Thailand for the rest of out lives .. 

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

 

    What are the new rules ?

 

 

I contacted a TM officer I know at Section D and she told me. The new rules aren't really new (with one exception), they are basically the same as before but immigration has been ordered to enforce them harder 

 

Any person bringing a minor out of Thailand must provide written consent from all legal guardians not present

Evidence that a parent is not a legal guardian must have :) 

 

The new rule: Infants shall not be allowed to leave Thailand without their mother except by court order - this is a response to the surrogacy law

 

I asked for more details but as always, the memo wasn't all clear. It said nothing about if the written consent must be the amphur form or not, it didn't state what evidence that a parent is not a legal guardian was, didn't say if "minor" was referring only to Thai citizen or not (but she thought it did). Disappointed that not even TM had clear information but that's the way it is

 

We should expect that there will be some "variations" to how strictly this will be enforced of course :)

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[PattayaAJF]

6 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

I contacted a TM officer I know at Section D and she told me. The new rules aren't really new (with one exception), they are basically the same as before but immigration has been ordered to enforce them harder 

 

please forgive my ignorance .. what is a "TM officer" ?

[MikeyIdea]

11 minutes ago, PattayaAJF said:

 

please forgive my ignorance .. what is a "TM officer" ?

 

Tor Mor, the Thai abbreviation for immigration

 

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

The new rule: Infants shall not be allowed to leave Thailand without their mother except by court order - this is a response to the surrogacy law

 

 

 

    Yes, that is what a lawyer told me as well .

[PattayaAJF]

15 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Tor Mor, the Thai abbreviation for immigration

 

 

thanks .. as in: ตม. 30 my favourite report .. 

[Tony125]

On 12/6/2016 at 1:57 PM, Deepinthailand said:

So my first child born in Malta to UK Father, lybian mother. Maltese birth certificate. now UK and Lybian Passports. Now I understand from authorities in UK she is also entitled to a Maltese passport. I've heard of dual nationally but never triple. She is going to apply and see what happens.

This could easily happen here UK father Cambodian mother Thai birth certificate ? ?

No it cannot happen here. In Thailand one of the parents must be Thai for child to be a Thai citizen if born here or in another country. In US makes no difference what nationality of parents if born in US they are a US citizen as well as nationality of their parent. Japan has same law as Thailand if parents are not Japanese a child born in Japan  is not a Japanese citizen.

If his father was Japanese then he would have right by decent but his father was Thai.  If say a Brit or American couple were here working /living and had a child the child would not be Thai because he was born here. After becoming an adult he could apply for citizenship or permanent residence but would have to go thru all the requirements we do to become a citzen.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Tony125
spelling and sentence error

[Tony125]

On 12/3/2016 at 7:11 PM, Dazinoz said:

 

Thanks for the info.

 

So does this apply if a father, like you and me, in this situation leaves the girlfriend and baby he is not legally required to pay child support?

 

Before anyone gets upset about the question, thats all it is a question for interest sake.

Get your child an Aus passport and citizenship  has been shown in other posts how to do. If you wife is "stateless" meaning she does't have a Cambodian/Burma birth certificate  your son would also be stateless which will cause him serious problems as an adult. At least with Aus citizenship thru you he will have a passport and can leave Thailand and maybe find work in another country ect when he grows up.

[PattayaAJF]

On 07/12/2016 at 7:10 PM, Tony125 said:

Get your child an Aus passport and citizenship  has been shown in other posts how to do. If you wife is "stateless" meaning she does't have a Cambodian/Burma birth certificate  your son would also be stateless which will cause him serious problems as an adult. At least with Aus citizenship thru you he will have a passport and can leave Thailand and maybe find work in another country ect when he grows up.

exactly my thoughts as well .. and the child can start by looking in Australia .. not a bad option .. 

[Tony125]

Govt grants Thai citizenship to stateless scholarship students

BANGKOK, 14 March 2016 (NNT) - The Ministry of Interior has instructed local offices to review student rosters of educational institutions to establish the number of stateless students and determine who may be eligible for Thai citizenship.

Permanent Secretary for Interior Krissada Boonrach revealed that the ministry has initiated a project to provide stateless individuals with Thai citizenship to address the issue of statelessness among students. He said the project also serves to tackle the problem of human trafficking.

According to an ongoing investigation that began in January of last year, the number of stateless students stands at more than 69,600. Of this figure, more than 45,200 have been evaluated and almost 19,800 were determined to be eligible for Thai citizenship. Those who qualify have been informed to report to their local registration office.

So far, more than 8,700 stateless individuals have requested Thai nationality, of which more than 5,500 have been provided with citizenship.

Mr. Krissada said relevant officials have been assigned to implement and closely monitor the program, while coordinating with local school administrators to raise awareness.
 

[thetruth revealer]

On 4.12.2016 at 5:55 PM, Dazinoz said:

 

You are correct I have never considered taking the baby away from his mother. I am just concerned about his legal future with no nationality.

With a Kor Ror 11 Form ,  (Fathership recognition trough a Thai Court) , most probably you could apply for the Passport at your Embassy, since its Birth Right is the Nationality of the father or mother as well.

[thetruth revealer]

On 6.12.2016 at 2:13 PM, sanemax said:

 

   I do know that I am correct when I state the law .

But as we all know, some laws in Thailand are not adhered too .

Taking a child without the legal guardians permission is child abduction , but it seems that immigration are not concerned by this 

assuming the legal father with the same surname .....

[thetruth revealer]

On 6.12.2016 at 2:58 PM, Grubster said:

If you came here with your pregnant girlfriend from any country and she gave birth, when the two of you had to go back to work you could not take the baby with you. Sorry I'm not buying that. Maybe it is just a birth certificate screw up and needs to be changed to Mayanmar  or whatever his nationality is. 

Isnt it required to register a Child Birth at your Countries embassy ???

[brewsterbudgen]

Isnt it required to register a Child Birth at your Countries embassy ???

Not for the UK. In fact it is no longer possible to do this at the Embassy. There is no requirement to register the birth with UK authorities.

[bandito]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 3:45 PM, sanemax said:

 

    Stateless people are treated like all other kids in the school , in the school that my families stateless members go to anyway .

   One of the stateless kids obtained Thai ID when he turned 16 .

Prayruth also recently stated that ALL children in Thai schools shall be given Thai ID

 

All Thai children in Thai schools shall be given ID cards.

He is stateless and no Thai thus can not get a Thai ID card.

Probably the school gave him some kind of a card or it is bought on the black market in Khao San Road.

My daughter was born stateless, before the law came in effect that children born out a Thai citizen automatically became a Thai.

I made her Thai, right after she was born, and that took me one and a half year of it, a difficult process.

 

[MikeyIdea]

19 hours ago, thetruth revealer said:

With a Kor Ror 11 Form ,  (Fathership recognition trough a Thai Court) , most probably you could apply for the Passport at your Embassy, since its Birth Right is the Nationality of the father or mother as well.

 

Kor Ror is legal father certification, it can be processed via court when child is at any age or via amphur if child is approx. 7 years old or older and all parties agree (mother, father and child)

[thetruth revealer]

12 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Kor Ror is legal father certification, it can be processed via court when child is at any age or via amphur if child is approx. 7 years old or older and all parties agree (mother, father and child)

It was explained different recently, when doing research how to register a Child   of unmarried parents , at Embassy. Are you sure this can only be obtained at age 7 ???maybe different handling in different provinces?

[MikeyIdea]

30 minutes ago, thetruth revealer said:

It was explained different recently, when doing research how to register a Child   of unmarried parents , at Embassy. Are you sure this can only be obtained at age 7 ???maybe different handling in different provinces?

 

Thai law allow for legitimization 3 ways, marriage, court order or amphur

 

I legitimized my daughter at the amphur in Loei where she had her tabien baan. It took 2-3 hours and cost 50 baht or so. All three must agree = mother, father and child

 

Working class Thai's don't worry too much until it is too late but I have several Thai friends in the office, fathers, who legitimized their children at the amphur too. It is a normal process that all amphur supervisors know about. If mother, father and 7 year old child go to the amphur with the correct paperwork and still cannot get it done, then it's because mother or child does not agree

 

Embassies may have different rules. I have a laughable story to tell about the Swedish Embassy. It is true

I legitimized at the amphur and certified the translation at the Consular Affairs department and happily went to the Swedish Embassy. They promptly denied accepting the paperwork for the citizenship application with motivation that their rules said legitimization by court order only

 

I went to Loei and talked to the Provincial District Attorney and he laughed actually, he also said that he will not allow me to go to court to get legitimized because I already had everything that Thai law could give me. He advised that surely the Swedish Embassy would accept and if they didn't then I should petition the court to get legitimized again which the court of course would throw out without action and use that evidence

 

I called the embassy and told them about the district attorney's last recommendation and they turned around and were suddenly happy to accept non court legitimization

 

Mikey

Edited December 13, 2016 by MikeyIdea