Thai youth born in Japan set to be deported because Thai mum worked illegally

[new2here]

US immigration law has made very similar rulings against Khmer kids who were born in the US but whose parents had failed to obtain citizenship. The kids, who only spoke English, and who were now adults, were deported to Cambodia where they live as outcasts. And just a few months ago an adopted Korean man whose adoptive parents failed to get him citizenship was deported back to Korea where of course he understands neither the language nor the culture.

And although the Japanese may not be racist in the sense of some Trump supporters, they certainly have some idiosyncratic ideas about their superiority and uniqueness. I remember when the Hawaiian Akebono became a sumo Yokozuna (master) and the more conservative Japanese argued to end sumo altogether.


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That's true about some of the former Cambodian-born, legally adopted children.... but.... like the case of the Korean-born, US adopted adult, as I read/remember it, those Cambodian-born US-adopted adults committed serious crimes, which under law, make them eligible for removal.

So, while I agree that the "punishment" is very severe, I can't overlook that the genesis to their US removal proceedings was based on their adult criminal actions - and not rooted in their original country of birth.




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[new2here]

There were indeed differing legal arguments but in both cases an adult is deported from a country they have resided in the majority of their lives to a country where they neither speak the language nor are familiar with the culture and where, at best, they might learn to speak the local language with a heavy accent. Banishment from society, which is what these deportations amount to, is a heavy penalty that does not fit the crimes. The fact that various laws allow such punishments in multiple "advanced" societies remains, in my mind's eye, to be shocking and deplorable.


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I see your point - and agree to the extent that removal - or banishment as you call it - IS a severe punishment - ill wholly agree..

... but....

I must also recognize that the crimes one must commit and be convicted of, in order to be subject to removal are essentially character crimes - crimes of moral turpitude - and are not "petty" offenses.

.. and even if your are convicted of such an removal-eligible crime, you commonly have appeal/waiver options as well.

So, in totality, I think the law, punishment and appeal/waiver process is fair, and has reasonable safeguards in place.

While it may seem harsh, the reality is that for many non-citizens living in X foreign country, you may remain there (in some cases indefinitely) BUT your behavior counts and if it runs materially afoul of law, you may be asked to leave.


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[Chip Allen]

4 hours ago, rkidlad said:

 

If the kid is deported, I'd like to think Thailand could learn from something from this. 

Thailand learns NOTHING.....neither does Japan. Both are nativist, nationalistic and racist in the extreme. 

[new2here]

tell that to the USA!
 

I don't think is, can be or even should be one common or harmonized immigration/citizenship model..

Each county I think needs to have an internal discussion about what immigration looks like to them, the costs and benefits, the societal and economic needs and costs, etc... from there a decision as to policy should be made. But on the surface, I don't think the US model can or should work in Japan as the two countries are quite different.


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[Docno]

2 hours ago, bsdthai said:

Pay backs a bitch!

A lot of us here on TV have been in thailand for most of our lives and arent special and will be booted anytime thais desire. Same sitiation. Rules are rules... Right?

KaRmA!

You went to Thailand of your own free will. This lad didn't choose to be born in Japan to a mother who was breaking the law. But he has spent his whole life there. So what pay back are you talking about? What has he done to deserve your reaction?

Edited December 7, 2016 by Docno

[Time Traveller]

And this is news because.......? 

Just another country doing what Thailand routinely does.

[Senior Player]

23 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

Thailand learns NOTHING.....neither does Japan. Both are nativist, nationalistic and racist in the extreme. 

Nothing racist about what Japan has done, as they've pointed out that by accepting his citizenship they would be setting a dangerous precedent. In other words, it would encourage others to do the same and gain citizenship by malfeasant means in the future. Protecting oneself from illegal migrants isn't racist. Just because the EU is too stupid to see the problem that they're creating for future generations by their open door policy, it doesn't mean other nations have to follow suit and do the same. 

 

Yes, I feel sorry for the boy who is a victim of his mother's reckless stupidity and criminality, but that doesn't excuse the fact that laws were broken here. Maybe your solution is to do away with all borders and all laws worldwide because you deem them to be racist in some way? Of course, they'll be quite a few nations that will never ever do an EU and allow lawbreakers to stay in their land to appease those that like to sling the racist remark around like yourself. I'm afraid you'll just have to grow up and accept that many other countries don't think like you do.

 

 

[PremiumLane]

The fact that human beings can be labelled as illegal is an anathema to me 

[claffey]

3 hours ago, harleyclarkey said:

Ireland allowed women, mainly from Africa, to literally go from airport to the maternity hospital. The born child was a commodity , a lever to stay in Ireland and get an Irish/EC passport....one of the most valuable in the world. Don't ask me how they got on the plane....maybe those huge robes they wear? Or how they had to land in another country first (no direct flights from Africa to Ireland)and so should have made their claim there.

 

The children have an automatic right to citizenship but not the parents after a referendum a few years back.

 

Then when it comes time to deport the parents/mother there is bloody war.

 

We are so, so darn  weak in the west and this is destroying what is left of our culture. 

 

Japan and to a point Thailand are right. You know the law so obey it.

They have the balls to implement it and not do the leftie liberal thing and allow all to remain.

I think that the children no longer have the right to a passport. That's what the referendum was about... Deporting the family of a citizen is against European freedom of movement laws. So now they would deport the whole family if they were taking advantage of the system..

[free123]

why they need 16 years to kick him out ?...kick the mom and if he dives ( thai man) kick him when he surfsce for school....but after 16 years .?...but straight decision otherwise a million isaaners would dump their load there

[Srikcir]

Even hafu  children (mixed-children from japanese and foreign couple) suffer discrimination, especially if Asian-Japanese. They aren't Japanese enough even though fluent.

https://blog.gaijinpot.com/live-hafu-japan/

 

[Jim walker]

UK Westminster  government is doing the same so no strange news to us British  

[tukkytuktuk]

Good riddance to them your better off in Thailand anyway. Why do you want to stay in a country that has disrespected your mother? Screw um, sieanara, yipon.

Edited December 7, 2016 by tukkytuktuk

[dotpoom]

If he was born in Japan....why are they calling him a "Thai youth"?

[mikebike]

If he was born in Japan....why are they calling him a "Thai youth"?

Because Japan does not offer birthright citizenship. He is not Japanese by their definition.

[Howitzer]

10 hours ago, Nerone said:

a country more racist than thailand...

 

 

All cos your western country doesn't have those laws and other countries do you call them racist.

[dluek]

In my opinion a child should never be punished for things that are completely beyond their control. It's pretty simple really. I understand that the Japanese rigidly follow laws that are in place, and I respect that -- it would be a different story if the kid was still living with the illegal mother. But according to the article he has a Japanese guardian and was basically abandoned by the mother.

 

Any law that punishes a blameless child in such a harsh way is a law that should be amended, and it wouldn't necessarily set a precedent. This case straddles the line between immigration law and family law, and family law must be flexible -- up to judges' discretions -- so as to serve the best interests of children on a case by case basis. Regardless of comments from expats who have lived in Japan, this verdict makes the Japanese appear heartless to the world. 

[gemguy]

More ramifications of Tit for Tat immigration policies

[laocowboy2]

9 hours ago, rkidlad said:

This is not the kid's fault, He should absolutely be allowed to stay. His mum is at fault for working illegally, but all he did was be born. 

 

The Japanese need to apply common sense here. Sure, they don't want people coming over and having anchor babies, but that doesn't mean cases can't be looked at on an individual basis.

 

Japan is an extremely developed country, but they still have this silly notion of an homogeneous society (I'm not talking about the kid in this story). Like it or not the world is changing. People are moving all over the world and it's time to realise that this one nation one race can't be maintained with the way the world is moving. Some people might find it endearing or a matter of deep routed culture, but the fact is Japanese people are having babies with other races, and a lot of these children living in Japan can made to feel like outsiders purely because of how they look. Yes, it happens in the West also, and it's equally as cavemen esque. You're 1 in 7 billion. You're not special - get over it. 

 

If the kid is deported, I'd like to think Thailand could learn from something from this. 

They will probably refuse him entry unless he has a Thai passport!

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Are you referring to the pool cleaners, gardeners and maids doing the jobs American's do not want. Watch the movie "A Day Without A Mexican" There should be a crackdown on rich pregnant Chinese that come to the US solely for the purpose of having their baby there and getting a passport. 

 

I would refer to the former middle-class jobs that American Citizens used to do, before Rich People (who can hire pool-cleaners, maids, and gardeners) decided that they could save a few bucks by flooding the labor-market with poor people who bid-down pay to the lowest wage.  Building contractors and others got in on the act, and destroyed former middle-class careers in construction, food-packing, etc.  Wages have fallen so far, that one now needs government-handouts + the paycheck to survive in many of these destroyed careers - and many other careers now, which were flooded with citizens pushed out of the former.

 

See the words of Farm Union Labor Leader Caesar Chavez for why illegal-immigration is harmful.  It has nothing to do with race (to others playing that card) and, in fact, is disproportionately harmful to people of color, as well as legal immigrants.

 

So-called "birthright citizenship" in the USA was created to provide citizenship to freed slaves, who had paid a steep price for it.  Immigrants, by contrast, cannot claim their ancestors built the country where they reside.  Citizenship is, at its root, a form of inheritance.  The "Chan" case opened birthright-citizenship to "legal immigrants."  A footnote in another case has given "de-facto" expansion to the children of "illegal immigrants."  It would only take one case brought to the Supreme Court to end this practice - not a Constitutional-amendment, as many claim.

 

The film referenced is befitting the Hollywood mindset - the types of people who love that cheap labor, and like to pretend they are "compassionate" as they destroy the lives and families of millions of citizens, who do not have the right to live and work anywhere else.

[soalbundy]

52 minutes ago, dluek said:

In my opinion a child should never be punished for things that are completely beyond their control. It's pretty simple really. I understand that the Japanese rigidly follow laws that are in place, and I respect that -- it would be a different story if the kid was still living with the illegal mother. But according to the article he has a Japanese guardian and was basically abandoned by the mother.

 

Any law that punishes a blameless child in such a harsh way is a law that should be amended, and it wouldn't necessarily set a precedent. This case straddles the line between immigration law and family law, and family law must be flexible -- up to judges' discretions -- so as to serve the best interests of children on a case by case basis. Regardless of comments from expats who have lived in Japan, this verdict makes the Japanese appear heartless to the world. 

I read some time ago that a Thai man who had been in the UK since he was a small child was deported to Thailand because he had committed a minor crime, he spoke no Thai and speaks English with a Northern accent (God help him)

[ToS2014]

9 hours ago, Raymonddiaz said:

Poor Yankee99 ...Living in a foreign country and hating foreigners living in his own country. Pathetic. 

Everyone is entitled to American social programs, or so it seems .  Why is it that the illegal(s) just can't accept their fate and not bring another into the endless debatable conversation.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

So the lad should take his lumps and come back sponsored by his guardian legally. Who can pay school fees. Then he can get a student visa and attend college, then get a job and work visa. Within a few years he will be a legal permanent resident. I know many who have done it in Japan including a Thai woman, legally.

A sad story but if the ruling followed Japnese law much better than what we have in the US with a mostly open border, massive labor and tax fraud, illegal so called sanctuary cities and all the problems they cause.


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[Docno]

8 hours ago, hdkane said:

Maybe he came to Thailand to get away from the people that are destroying the nature of the USA...that played a part in my willingness to come here...I saw the demographic changes, and simply didn't want to witness the erosion of the USA...it's pretty reasonable, actually.  The USA caters to any group other than White males...and after a while, leaving a country that you once loved becomes a quite viable option.

Love the irony. White males lamenting their supposed diminished status at home as they become a minority, so they move to Thailand where they are more clearly a minority, and arguably a second class one at that. Maybe you need to rethink that strategy...  

[connda]

Would it be any different if a farang 16 year old was born in Thailand, live he all his life, and then his farang mum was caught working illegally and deported?

[jm91]

11 hours ago, new2here said:

 

I agree. So long as the case was handled in accordance with current Japanese law and relevant case law, then I support the decision.

I do have empathy for him, largely because his "issue" was largely not of his own doing or really controllable by him either.

So, to that extent I have empathy... however, regardless of how Thailand handles theses issues, so long as the law was followed, then I support the outcome.

Additionally, I think the notion of being born in a country where you are the child of two (or even one) non-citizens, and then being entitled to citizenship in that foreign country, it is understandable to me that the government would want to have controls/regulations in place to insure only those who are properly/legally in country at the time of birth, can then be entitled to citizenship of that foreign based on that birth from one/two non-citizens.


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The point you are missing is that the Japanese laws themselves are deeply racist. A reflection of the Japanese self image of being a superior race. 

To say they are just following the rules misses the point that the rules are designed to enforce a racist view. 

[soalbundy]

21 minutes ago, jm91 said:

The point you are missing is that the Japanese laws themselves are deeply racist. A reflection of the Japanese self image of being a superior race. 

To say they are just following the rules misses the point that the rules are designed to enforce a racist view. 

So you are going to tell the Japanese the correct way of thinking. It is their country, their self image, who are you to tell them that they shouldn't be racist, feeling a bit superior today are we?

[Raymonddiaz]

8 hours ago, KMartinHandyman said:

No, legally living in a foreign country hating people living illegally in his home country.

why foreign haters live in a foreign country?

[Raymonddiaz]

8 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I think it would depend on who these foreigners are, remember that too many of these foreigners particularly in the UK, is part of the reason many from there, now live in Thailand and other countries.

i feel sorry for them . It will be better for them to accept that all countries in the world are like a small village. Foreign haters have no choice. the so many '' foreigners'' are in fact locals because they were born and raised there. I know many '' foreigners'' with UK passport.

[IMA_FARANG]

A similar case was decided in the U.S some years ago.

A Thai family illrgally entered he U.S. with their infant baby.

They raised their son as a U.S citizen.

He grew up in the U.S.believing he was a U.S citizen.

H went to schooll in the U.S.

He even had an illegal U.S passsport that his parents somehow had acuquired  for him.

When he was old enough  he tried to join the USAF.

Only then did he discover his Thai parents had uised illegal docunrnts to get him into the U.S when he was an infant.

He was deported to Thailand even though he thought he was a U.S citizen and he  spoke no Thai.