Uk Pension

[stevomaesot]

Hi, i will be transferring a lump sum from my Qrops pension when I'm 55 years old. Anybody have any idea if i will pay tax on it in Thailand , and if so how much?

Cheers

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[evadgib]

There's a pinned topic frequented by those that will probably know at the top of the page.

[poohy]

I paid nothing on my lump sum just normal eft (electronic funds transfer)bank transfer to my account

[Briggsy]

You do not pay tax on lump sums brought into Thailand.

 

Depending on the amount, at the Thai end, you may be required to state the source of the funds (the answer is "savings") and what the funds will be used for.

 

Be sure to obtain and keep the documentation and Foreign Exchange Transaction form from the bank which will help you if you wish to transfer money out in the future.

[stevomaesot]

You do not pay tax on lump sums brought into Thailand.
 
Depending on the amount, at the Thai end, you may be required to state the source of the funds (the answer is "savings") and what the funds will be used for.
 
Be sure to obtain and keep the documentation and Foreign Exchange Transaction form from the bank which will help you if you wish to transfer money out in the future.

Looking at roughly 20 k lump sum
What do you think?

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[stevomaesot]

You do not pay tax on lump sums brought into Thailand.
 
Depending on the amount, at the Thai end, you may be required to state the source of the funds (the answer is "savings") and what the funds will be used for.
 
Be sure to obtain and keep the documentation and Foreign Exchange Transaction form from the bank which will help you if you wish to transfer money out in the future.

Thanks for the advice

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[RBOP]

Generally no you will not be taxed bringing foreign funds in. But depending on how you invest it in Thailand you could be taxed on the interest or other gains. Keep records so you can send it out again if need be.

[Generalchaos]

Anything over 10K USD will be flagged and held up by the bank until you tell them what is for and from where, just a formality though.

[al007]

I have a QROPS and am also retired Chartered Accountant from UK

 

In thailand you pay no Tax on Pensions received, either lump sum or annual pension

 

It is important your QROPS is in Jurisdiction with double taxation agreement with Thailand or Tax will be deducted at source, on annual pension payment, and there are no QROPS locations so far as I am aware that have DT with Thailand

 

Gibraltar is the best location as you will only loose 2.5% at source,on the annual pension, but not on the lump sum

 

I have often transferred more than 10,000 sterling and never had any questions so far been doing this for about nine years

 

If you want to call me send me a PM and I will give you my phone number

 

 

[markeewan]

55 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

Anything over 10K USD will be flagged and held up by the bank until you tell them what is for and from where, just a formality though.

 

I have transferred amounts larger than this from Australia via HiFx to Bangkok Bank and the money just goes straight into the account with a 500 baht fee. No hold up and never asked what it is for. Same with transfers from UBS Switzerland to Bangkok Bank. Two to three days and the cash is in Bangkok Bank.

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

You do not pay tax on lump sums brought into Thailand.

 

Depending on the amount, at the Thai end, you may be required to state the source of the funds (the answer is "savings") and what the funds will be used for.

 

Be sure to obtain and keep the documentation and Foreign Exchange Transaction form from the bank which will help you if you wish to transfer money out in the future.

Gentlemanly and polite. Refreshing. 

[swissbie]

1 hour ago, Generalchaos said:

Anything over 10K USD will be flagged and held up by the bank until you tell them what is for and from where, just a formality though.

If you're not joking it's just nonsense. No questions asked, no taxes. Done this many times.

[dabhand]

1 hour ago, al007 said:

I have a QROPS and am also retired Chartered Accountant from UK

 

In thailand you pay no Tax on Pensions received, either lump sum or annual pension

 

It is important your QROPS is in Jurisdiction with double taxation agreement with Thailand or Tax will be deducted at source, on annual pension payment, and there are no QROPS locations so far as I am aware that have DT with Thailand

 

Gibraltar is the best location as you will only loose 2.5% at source,on the annual pension, but not on the lump sum

 

I have often transferred more than 10,000 sterling and never had any questions so far been doing this for about nine years

 

If you want to call me send me a PM and I will give you my phone number

 

 

 

http://www.qropsspecialists.com/qrops-hong-kong-2016/

This article seems to suggest that Hong Kong has both a DTA with Thailand and also available QROPS. Apparently HK did experience problems with HMRC over a number of schemes in recent past so it may well be a more risky location to trust any pension funds.

 

In addition, the recent proposed changes in the flexi access rules for ROPS (the 70% rule expected to be lifted in April 2017) and the more onerous conditions for HMRC accepting schemes as qualifying as a ROPS suggest more due diligence will be needed before taking the plunge.  

 

[Briggsy]

I have read that transfers in to Thailand over 50,000 USD equivalent trigger an obligatory question from the bank to the recipient of the funds as to the purpose of the funds. I have no confirmation this is the case, only hearsay.

 

It may be in your interest not to confuse the receiving Thai bank with any discussion of "pensions" or God forbid, "QROPS". They will have no idea what you mean and may revert to "freeze" function when faced with an unfamiliar situation.

[al007]

15 minutes ago, dabhand said:

 

http://www.qropsspecialists.com/qrops-hong-kong-2016/

This article seems to suggest that Hong Kong has both a DTA with Thailand and also available QROPS. Apparently HK did experience problems with HMRC over a number of schemes in recent past so it may well be a more risky location to trust any pension funds.

 

In addition, the recent proposed changes in the flexi access rules for ROPS (the 70% rule expected to be lifted in April 2017) and the more onerous conditions for HMRC accepting schemes as qualifying as a ROPS suggest more due diligence will be needed before taking the plunge.  

 

 

An excellent link and a lot of information it is often difficult to get information on QROPS

 

I still await Gibraltar granting flexible access, I am 71 and need to get funds to pay for hospitalisation for cancer and at the moment can not release funds, flexible access would solve my problems

[dabhand]

Just now, al007 said:

 

An excellent link and a lot of information it is often difficult to get information on QROPS

 

I still await Gibraltar granting flexible access, I am 71 and need to get funds to pay for hospitalisation for cancer and at the moment can not release funds, flexible access would solve my problems

 

It is looking more hopeful given the recent draft Finance Bill. I linked to a few other QROPS articles in recent comments I made on the pinned UK pension thread and it does seem that the UK are looking to allow flexi access this time, unlike the false dawn of 2015. However Gibraltar do need to ensure their local rules are HMRC compliant.

 

I also have a Gib QROPS and would welcome flexi access to be an option going forward. Best of luck with your medical situation.

[Mike45]

I don't know anything about QROPS but it sounds like it's difficult to get your money. I read about charges for this or that and then taxes in some situations ranging to 55%. I can't imagine being in the situation of being sick and not getting access to needed funds.

 

Couldn't you just take it monthly at Retirement age and avoid all these fees and Taxes?

Best of luck to all of you.

[stevomaesot]

Can anyone elaborate on this flexi access... my financial advisor has told me that one of the main advantages of transferring to a Gibraltar Qrops was its flexibility.. so far have found the whole experience extremely confusing. Having said that considering my pension pot lost 23% of its value in 12 months transferring to Qrops is a no brainer for me

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[Dumbastheycome]

Funds  transferred into a Thai  account  are only subject to tax on the interest earned in that account.

Lump sum amounts involved in transfer which exceed the level set to trigger mandatory checks on source and purpose due to international  anti laundering or terror  funding ( ?) either  from  source location or  arrival location is probably  an important  consideration to  avoid  delay or excuses  for the extraction of a percentage. from either location.

I only  accept  transfers at a fixed international exchange  rate which I  can verify online as being  current after checking to  see if the exchange  rate is  stable or indicating a  move up or down. Financial institutions employ  money  brokers  so if you  let them  have leeway in the timing of a transfer at an unspecified   rate and/or in the currency  of the source location rather than Thai  Bht the result  may be  disappointing in expectation. I only accept transfers at a specified acceptable  rate within a specific time  frame. Up to the transfer  agencies as to how they can profit  from. If not acceptable to them or  myself  I defer and  have in the past transferred funds to an alternative domestic agency  for a  better and acceptable  international  exchange.

My homeland domestic Bank is  not  my friend  but  they have  become  more  friendly in this aspect. :)

 

[al007]

2 hours ago, Mike45 said:

I don't know anything about QROPS but it sounds like it's difficult to get your money. I read about charges for this or that and then taxes in some situations ranging to 55%. I can't imagine being in the situation of being sick and not getting access to needed funds.

 

Couldn't you just take it monthly at Retirement age and avoid all these fees and Taxes?

Best of luck to all of you.

 

Some QROPS are rip offs but that need not be the case,

 

my own costs about the same as a UK low cost SIPP,

 

I also self manage and choose my own investments, and have a very low cost broker, Interactive Brokers,

 

I do all the buying and sellingI can also move from one currency to another

 

I just can not take out cash without the trustees permission

[al007]

2 hours ago, stevomaesot said:

Can anyone elaborate on this flexi access... my financial advisor has told me that one of the main advantages of transferring to a Gibraltar Qrops was its flexibility.. so far have found the whole experience extremely confusing. Having said that considering my pension pot lost 23% of its value in 12 months transferring to Qrops is a no brainer for me

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Sad you have dropped 23% in last year

 

The advantage of a QROPS is it takes the income out of the uk net

 

Unlike a SIPP flexible access is at this time still not available in Gibraltar,

 

flexible access available on a SIPP basically means you can take out as much as you wish any year once retired and just pay tax on the withdrawals, if it is Gibraltar tax is 2.5 %, bring it to Thailand no more tax as it is pension income, but so far we await flexible access in Gibraltar

[stevomaesot]

Hi , ive been told i can take out a lump sum once 55.. i hope that is correct.. could you what exactly defines flexible access
Cheers

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[stevomaesot]

Sorry could you explain i meant

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[SiSePuede419]

Might as well put the money in a pile, throw kerosene on it and toss a lit match that way.

 

That money is gone. ?

[akentryan]

15 hours ago, Generalchaos said:

Anything over 10K USD will be flagged and held up by the bank until you tell them what is for and from where, just a formality though.

I transferred in $50K last year to my account at Bangkok Bank. No questions asked. No hold on the money.

[4MyEgo]

14 hours ago, stevomaesot said:

Hi , ive been told i can take out a lump sum once 55.. i hope that is correct.. could you what exactly defines flexible access
Cheers

Sent from my SM-J700F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Taking super out at 55 can be a nightmare, so don't be in too much of a hurry, i.e. do you research, and always seek a qualified opinion, i.e. from an accountant in your country, they won't charge you for the advice. I almost took mine at 55, but decided to ask my accountant of 30 years plus, and he asked if I was mad ?

 

So

 

The most important thing is how long have you been out of your country, if its over 183 days, this is were it might get messy.

 

Here is an example of my situation, I left Australia in November 2015 with no intention of returning except for the odd holiday to visit family and friends, say every 2 years, so that makes me a non-resident for tax purposes, as I do not hold any assets in Australia that would chain me to Australia and do not pretend on holding onto my Australian residency for tax purpose, not to be confused with my Australian citizenship.

 

So now that we have established that I am a non-resident for tax purposes, if I was .e.g. to take my super at 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, I would be up for 1/3 of it in tax for the first $80,000 then 37c in the $ up to $180,000, make no mistake about that, hence the reason my accountant asked me if I was mad, on the other hand, if I wait, which I will, till I reach the age of 60, its tax free. 

 

Even if you had your Australian residency, meaning you lived in Australia for at least 183 days in every financial year, (not calendar year), you would still pay tax on it, although at a lower rate increasing as the amount gets higher (to scale). I am strictly talking about the Australian system here, so if your not from Australia, I would strongly ask an accountant from your country:

 

1) If I am a resident of my country and take my super out as a lump sum at age 55, how much would I pay in tax, the super amount I have is xzy$'s

 

2) If I am a non resident how much will I pay in tax

 

This should sort your answer out from a qualified point of view.

 

If you have a fair bit in there, can I suggest if you are going to pay tax on it, to leave it in there, remember, every $ counts for your retirement and paying tax is what most of us have done all our lives, perhaps you can support yourself by other means until you reach the golden age of 60 ?

 

Another thing would be to perhaps leave the money in your home country depending on their system, an example is in Australia you only pay 10% tax for any money you hold in a bank account and the bank will take it out and forward it to the tax man for you, shares on the other hand, provided you buy the ones that are fully franked will give you a nice return every 6 months have no tax payable, and no tax on their increase (capital gains) in value, however if you own property you are up that smelly creek, because they will tax you to the hilt.

 

Good luck either way and try not to blow your money too quickly as most do, then end up on TV complaining and carrying on like western women.

Edited December 11, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

20 hours ago, Generalchaos said:

Anything over 10K USD will be flagged and held up by the bank until you tell them what is for and from where, just a formality though.

 

That depends on how you bring it in, I use a transfer from one account to another meaning the bank doesn't charge or ask questions, i.e. I use BahtSmart.

 

I deposit say 20k for argument sake into their account, they obviously quote me a rate before I do this, and then they deposit that amount into my Thai account using within 2 days, excluding the weekend.

 

Look them up, www.bahtsmart.com  

[Arkady]

On 12/10/2016 at 6:32 PM, Briggsy said:

I have read that transfers in to Thailand over 50,000 USD equivalent trigger an obligatory question from the bank to the recipient of the funds as to the purpose of the funds. I have no confirmation this is the case, only hearsay.

 

It may be in your interest not to confuse the receiving Thai bank with any discussion of "pensions" or God forbid, "QROPS". They will have no idea what you mean and may revert to "freeze" function when faced with an unfamiliar situation.

 

That's correct because the Thai bank has to get you to fill in a Bank of Thailand form for inward remittances over USD 50k.  You just have to say it is personal savings that will be used for personal use or living expenses. It is a formality.  Bear in mind that income arising overseas is taxable, only if it is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of arising.  So, if anyone ever asks, you are remitting income or whatever paid into your UK account more than 12 months ago. The Thai Revenue Dept is not very diligent in following this up with ordinary expat workers or retirees but better to be safe than sorry. 

[Ricardo]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

  Bear in mind that income arising overseas is taxable, only if it is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of arising.  So, if anyone ever asks, you are remitting income or whatever paid into your UK account more than 12 months ago.

 

"within 12 months of arising"

 

I believe that you meant to say  "in the same calendar year as it arose" ?

 

The Thai tax-authorities (unlike HMRC) are said to work on a calendar-year basis, so in theory it might arise in December and be safely transferred the following month ?

 

But I am open to correction, if anyone else knows better ?

[Arkady]

44 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

"within 12 months of arising"

 

I believe that you meant to say  "in the same calendar year as it arose" ?

 

The Thai tax-authorities (unlike HMRC) are said to work on a calendar-year basis, so in theory it might arise in December and be safely transferred the following month ?

 

But I am open to correction, if anyone else knows better ?

 

You are correct. The wording is rather convoluted but It is the same Thai year,  not within a 12 month period. Thank you for pointing it out. Section 41 para 2 of the Revenue Code says, 

 

"A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part."

 

So, if you had received the income earlier than the tax year when you remitted it to Thailand, it should not be taxable. Fortunately the Thai Revenue Department is not vigilant on this sort of thing and takes no interest in the vast number of foreign pensioners residing in the Kingdom, probably on the basis that most of their pension income is taxable in their home countries and therefore protected by double tax treaties. However, it is worth being aware of this Thai tax rule.