Work permit needed?

[CLW]

I am stay in Thailand on an ED extension for stay, studying full time at an University.

I would like to do some online work for my cousin who has a company in Europe.

The work is completely unrelated to Thailand.

Do I need a work permit for such work?

[sanemax]

Its a grey area that no one seems to know the reality .

But , you wont have to have a WP , ifs its done in private and no one knows .

[elviajero]

You need permission to do any work in Thailand, which you won't get. It is your physical location that counts. The authorities seem to tolerate this kind of work, but most people doing online work don't declare the fact they are working.

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Its a grey area that no one seems to know the reality .

But , you wont have to have a WP , ifs its done in private and no one knows .

There is not grey area, according the labour law you need a permit.

But if nobody knows you get away with it.

People who do work online illegally tend to see a grey area or mention someone from immigration in Chiang Mai who hasn't anything to do with the labour law.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

There is not grey area, according the labour law you need a permit.

But if nobody knows you get away with it.

People who do work online illegally tend to see a grey area or mention someone from immigration in Chiang Mai who hasn't anything to do with the labour law.

 

   The grey area is what is considered to be work and what isnt .

Teaching full time online via video is considered to be working, if you own a Company back home and you occasionally  converse with your staff, that isnt considered to be working .

   If you sell or buy shares one time, it isnt considered to be working , if you spend all day working the stock market, it mat considered to be working .

   There is no clear dividing line about what is considered to be working and what isnt

That is the grey area

    

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   The grey area is what is considered to be work and what isnt .

Teaching full time online via video is considered to be working, if you own a Company back home and you occasionally  converse with your staff, that isnt considered to be working .

   If you sell or buy shares one time, it isnt considered to be working , if you spend all day working the stock market, it mat considered to be working .

   There is no clear dividing line about what is considered to be working and what isnt

That is the grey area

    

So doing online work for somebody else is not grey, simply black.

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

Its a grey area that no one seems to know the reality .

But , you wont have to have a WP , ifs its done in private and no one knows .

 

Its not a grey area.. online work is work.. Stated multiple times by the labor office. 

 

The only grey aspect is if they can catch you. 

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   The grey area is what is considered to be work and what isnt .

Teaching full time online via video is considered to be working, if you own a Company back home and you occasionally  converse with your staff, that isnt considered to be working .

   If you sell or buy shares one time, it isnt considered to be working , if you spend all day working the stock market, it mat considered to be working .

   There is no clear dividing line about what is considered to be working and what isnt

That is the grey area

    

 

 

Actually its quite well defined (outside of hobby / income cross overs where interesting labor dept use the 'making money' inclusion as work where they dont make the 'not making money' exclusion in the other direction). 

 

You allowed to manage your assets (buy / sell stocks.. Instruct staff) your not allowed to attempt to create assets yourself (perform tasks, trade shares short term). It does have a sense. 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   The grey area is what is considered to be work and what isnt .

Teaching full time online via video is considered to be working, if you own a Company back home and you occasionally  converse with your staff, that isnt considered to be working .

   If you sell or buy shares one time, it isnt considered to be working , if you spend all day working the stock market, it mat considered to be working .

   There is no clear dividing line about what is considered to be working and what isnt

That is the grey area

    

Just do what suits yourself, but make sure that what you do is victimless.

[yellowboat]

You will be working as per Thai "law".   If you work out of your home and do not share what you are doing with too many people, you will go unmolested. As well, you will be contributing to the growth of Thailand whether immigration wants you to or not.  Some labor laws in Thailand are draconian offensive to productivity.  No other countries are as backward as Thailand in this regard. 

[Honthy]

it is a Terra Incognita. Do it 

[Honthy]

5 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Its not a grey area.. online work is work.. Stated multiple times by the labor office. 

 

The only grey aspect is if they can catch you. 

 

Yes, stated multiple times, but as far as I know online work is never defined. Other thing is, that it is almost impossible to trace

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, Honthy said:

Yes, stated multiple times, but as far as I know online work is never defined. Other thing is, that it is almost impossible to trace

 

They dont care.. online offline.. they see it all the same. 

 

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/Do-need-0145business-visa-work-online/1175

 

Quote

Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so. -

 

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   The grey area is what is considered to be work and what isnt .

Teaching full time online via video is considered to be working, if you own a Company back home and you occasionally  converse with your staff, that isnt considered to be working .

   If you sell or buy shares one time, it isnt considered to be working , if you spend all day working the stock market, it mat considered to be working .

   There is no clear dividing line about what is considered to be working and what isnt

That is the grey area

    

Mostly nonsense!

 

The Immigration Act is clear and very simple to understand. You cannot work in Thailand without permission.

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned. 

 

Any work (occupation) needs permission, and only employment in Thailand needs permission in the form of a work permit. If you walk in to any Immigration or Labour office and ask if you can work online they will tell you that legally you can't.  They will probably also say you can do it, but I guarantee they will not give you formal written permission (authorization).

 

Unless someone is employed by a company in Thailand the Alien Working Act and Labour Laws do not apply.

 

The Immigration Act was written 37 years ago before thousands of visitors had the ability to work online (remotely). The fact that the authorities tolerate this type of work doesn't create a "grey area" in the law. They don't go after this type of worker mainly because they have to (like other countries) allow 'tourists' to keep up with work during their holiday/vacation.

[CLW]

So it's illegal by the law but was there ever a case at the court about this?

Let's say your hard disk is encrypted, and of course you need a password to access any online system like e-mail etc...
They can't force you to give them access, can they?

Usually you are not guilty until the other side has some evidence, or is even the law in Thailand not existing???

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, CLW said:

So it's illegal by the law but was there ever a case at the court about this?

Let's say your hard disk is encrypted, and of course you need a password to access any online system like e-mail etc...
They can't force you to give them access, can they?

Usually you are not guilty until the other side has some evidence, or is even the law in Thailand not existing???

The authorities do not actively pursue online work that has no connection to Thailand.

 

They would need evidence in order to get a court prosecution. 

[Slip]

There is no grey area as has been suggested.  You may not work in any way in the kingdom without a work permit.  There is no way that anyone will know you are working online unless you somehow make it known.

[mduras01]

A year or so ago, 20 immigration officers raided a popular coworking space in Chiang Mai. 16 digital nomads were detained, and later all 16 let go when the officers found out the guys were working online and not for the coworking space directly. The lines indeed ARE gray. Look it up: PunSpace raid.


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[Slip]

2 minutes ago, mduras01 said:

A year or so ago, 20 immigration officers raided a popular coworking space in Chiang Mai. 16 digital nomads were detained, and later all 16 let go when the officers found out the guys were working online and not for the coworking space directly. The lines indeed ARE gray. Look it up: PunSpace raid.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

The lines are not grey- the enforcement is woolly.  Welcome to Thailand.

[mduras01]

The lines are not grey- the enforcement is woolly.  Welcome to Thailand.

20 officers spun 16 ways is a lot of woolly. I wouldn't worry about it.


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[Slip]

How ridiculous- 20 officers made the raid.  One senior officer decided not to apply the law as clear as it is.  However I agree with you- and have already said that the OP shouldn't worry about it because no one will ever know he is breaking it if he has some sense.  That doesn't make it a grey area.

[F4UCorsair]

TELL NOBODY, not even your closest friends, or your gf, especially your gf.  You're playing video games!

 

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

[LivinLOS]

19 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Some labor laws in Thailand are draconian offensive to productivity.  No other countries are as backward as Thailand in this regard. 

 

Disagree very much.. I am a employer of personnel for cross border labor supply.. 

 

I would tend to think that almost all labor laws are a draconian offence to productivity, that what they do in order to ensure tax collection.. Exactly like Thailand wishes to. The majority of my work time is not getting clients, managing men, or being productive.. The majority of my efforts involve compliance, documentation for government, and revenue collection. 

[LivinLOS]

9 hours ago, CLW said:

So it's illegal by the law but was there ever a case at the court about this?

 

This last year or so along in only chiang mai 2 cases of charges over online work. 

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, mduras01 said:

A year or so ago, 20 immigration officers raided a popular coworking space in Chiang Mai. 16 digital nomads were detained, and later all 16 let go when the officers found out the guys were working online and not for the coworking space directly. The lines indeed ARE gray. Look it up: PunSpace raid.
 

 

Asking immigration about labor law is like asking my mechanic if I need a root canal.. 

 

I not the cases where people were charged dont get shared as much.