Bangkok police have doubts over Australian woman's rape claim

[bandito]

13 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I actually use my own sense of recall when I make a statement like this. I don't rely on a friend of a friend to tell me what to say, whatever the system may be in deepest Isaan. And I don't tell lies on Thaivisa, unlike many others.

I could find links in the local news services about this, but have no inclination to look on your behalf. 

 

So it's a story and there is no link to proof this.

[balo]

13 hours ago, Usual Suspect said:

When is this poor lady due to fly home..??

 Because everyone concerned in this case will be counting down the days.. the new Thai logic to any Tourist-related crime is to string it out till the victim/s leave... Case closed!

 

Maybe she lives her , maybe a student ?

[Essaybloke]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Named only as "Yaya" she said earlier that she was very drunk

 

I'm not saying that it excuses the rape or that she deserved it or any of the usual PC responses, if it took place, but getting very drunk in a foreign country where the local mores are unknown is never a good idea.

It's like coming to Thailand without insurance, and riding a m'bike without a helmet ( without ever having ridden a m'bike before ) - not a good idea.

Perhaps young female tourists should forget what they "should be able to do" and start thinking about what might happen and take precautions.

Perhaps if she hadn't been "very drunk" this wouldn't have happened.

Is it too much to expect that tourists take precautions and behave more carefully?

Good advice and well intended I'm sure, but a bit late in coming! She made a grave error of judgment. Rather than be Auntie Flo, wagging a finger and telling her in hindsight what she should have done, I'd now advise her if at all possible- "Leave the country."

[kingstonkid]

10 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

Why would you think she is a student on break? Stats say something like 50% of school leavers don't go on to further study... then add in drop outs... plus consider women might be less likely to choose a career path over motherhood... and your assumumption is based on sweet FA

 

 

 

OP you need to read I said the possibility that she is a student.  My only comment was that there was no roof that she was a girl with a career.

 

I made no assumptions ad try not to only suggested that she could be.  You e assuming in your thought that she is a drop out   or that she might just want to get barefoot and pregnant. Again nothing wrong with this.

 

 

[greenchair]

19 minutes ago, Essaybloke said:

Good advice and well intended I'm sure, but a bit late in coming! She made a grave error of judgment. Rather than be Auntie Flo, wagging a finger and telling her in hindsight what she should have done, I'd now advise her if at all possible- "Leave the country."

 

 

Why should she leave the country. 

She's done nothing wrong. She stopped a Thai person on the road in great distress, who then took her straight to the police station, then straight to the hospital, whereby the trained staff confirmed injury of rape. You are all no different from the backwards views of officials in this country that, being drunk equates to a licence to rape. So what if she was walking down the street with another man. So what if she fell down drunk. So what if it was late at night. None of these things are illegal. She got into a tuk tuk and fell asleep. The driver picked up his mate, took her to a secluded area and had sex with her against her will. It is illegal to do that. Many people fall asleep drunk in taxis, 99 percent of those drivers take the customer to their hotel and get staff to help them to their room. The myth that public drivers have a right to have sex with drunk passengers in Thailand has got to stop. This is happening to both foreign and Thai females. The police usually drop the case because "she was drunk late at night and alone " therefore it's her own fault. Nobody deserves to be beaten, murdered or raped because of being drunk. Especially by a public servant trusted to take care of the public getting them to their destination. 

[Essaybloke]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

 

 

Why should she leave the country. 

She's done nothing wrong. She stopped a Thai person on the road in great distress, who then took her straight to the police station, then straight to the hospital, whereby the trained staff confirmed injury of rape. You are all no different from the backwards views of officials in this country that, being drunk equates to a licence to rape. So what if she was walking down the street with another man. So what if she fell down drunk. So what if it was late at night. None of these things are illegal. She got into a tuk tuk and fell asleep. The driver picked up his mate, took her to a secluded area and had sex with her against her will. It is illegal to do that. Many people fall asleep drunk in taxis, 99 percent of those drivers take the customer to their hotel and get staff to help them to their room. The myth that public drivers have a right to have sex with drunk passengers in Thailand has got to stop. This is happening to both foreign and Thai females. The police usually drop the case because "she was drunk late at night and alone " therefore it's her own fault. Nobody deserves to be beaten, murdered or raped because of being drunk. Especially by a public servant trusted to take care of the public getting them to their destination. 

Get your foot off the gas! You are making a lot of assumptions here about the case and the people commenting on it. She should leave the country not because she's done anything wrong, but because what good would it do her to stay? The police suggest up to 2 weeks before they make their next move. In the meantime, where does she stay? What does she do for food, money etc? She should go home to her family where there's care and support. She can always come back if she needs to.

[tominbkk]

51 minutes ago, Essaybloke said:

Get your foot off the gas! You are making a lot of assumptions here about the case and the people commenting on it. She should leave the country not because she's done anything wrong, but because what good would it do her to stay? The police suggest up to 2 weeks before they make their next move. In the meantime, where does she stay? What does she do for food, money etc? She should go home to her family where there's care and support. She can always come back if she needs to.

As well, it would be the same in a Western country - the case would not be ready for at least a couple weeks.  Why expect it to be somehow fast-tracked here in Thailand?

[Essaybloke]

11 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

As well, it would be the same in a Western country - the case would not be ready for at least a couple weeks.  Why expect it to be somehow fast-tracked here in Thailand?

I'm not. But this young woman needs help, from family and friends and that's at home. Oh... never mind!

[sweatalot]

18 hours ago, George Graham said:

The speed of the DNA testing in Thailand seems to depend on the nature of the case.

 

I guess it depends on the wanted outcome

[sweatalot]

15 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

 

From where I stand, " charges of false reporting against the Australian tourist have not been ruled out. "  is a clear notice of intent. Consequently a warning and very possibly a threat.

 

It should be routine in every case of reporting a rape

[farcanell]

6 hours ago, bandito said:

 

So it's a story and there is no link to proof this.

 

Link

 

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/tuk-tuk-knifing-aussies-fly-phuket-beat-charge-13757/

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

 

 

OP you need to read I said the possibility that she is a student.  My only comment was that there was no roof that she was a girl with a career.

 

I made no assumptions ad try not to only suggested that she could be.  You e assuming in your thought that she is a drop out   or that she might just want to get barefoot and pregnant. Again nothing wrong with this.

 

 

 

Or assuming she is an employed person

 

but...,it's all assumptions, right

 

except for the bit that the doctors confirmed she was raped.

[farcanell]

12 hours ago, sweatalot said:

 

I am not demonizing women. I just say there might be evil intended women - same as there might be evil intended men.

And the standard procedure of the law equips them with a deadly weapon that can be abused - and has been abused - cases are well known.

 

And about the experienced professional medical staff of Thailand - You remember the experienced professional staff in the Koh Tao case?

No need to say more.

 

And btw. your style is abusing and against the forum rules.

 

 

Abusing? Do you read your own posts?

 

but I'm truly sorry if I upset you by responding to your posts.

[Old Croc]

7 hours ago, bandito said:

 

Fantasy! I don't believe this. Show me a link to that story, because that's what it, is a story.

 

7 hours ago, bandito said:

 

So it's a story and there is no link to proof this.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/aussie-tourists-knifed-hospital-tuk-tuks-thugs-accused-13738/

I just noticed farcanell has already provided a link. Thankyou.

This link was written within hours of the stabbings and subsequent events relating to the case are obviously not covered there.

It happened in 2011 and links are hard to find.  Of course there was a lengthy thread on Tv, but it seems to have disappeared in subsequent changes to the forum.

From those here who suggested I'm a liar I should expect an apology, but I'm well aware of the cowardly nature of people of their ilk. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Old Croc

[Old Croc]

15 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

 

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/aussie-tourists-knifed-hospital-tuk-tuks-thugs-accused-13738/

I just noticed farcanell has already provided a link. Thankyou.

This link was written within hours of the stabbings and subsequent events relating to the case are obviously not covered there.

It happened in 2011 and links are hard to find.  Of course there was a lengthy thread on Tv, but it seems to have disappeared in subsequent changes to the forum.

From those here who suggested I'm a liar I should expect an apology, but I'm well aware of the cowardly nature of people of their ilk. 

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/tuk-tuk-knifing-aussies-fly-phuket-beat-charge-13757/

[greenchair]

3 hours ago, Essaybloke said:

Get your foot off the gas! You are making a lot of assumptions here about the case and the people commenting on it. She should leave the country not because she's done anything wrong, but because what good would it do her to stay? The police suggest up to 2 weeks before they make their next move. In the meantime, where does she stay? What does she do for food, money etc? She should go home to her family where there's care and support. She can always come back if she needs to.

The previous poster said that she had made a grave error by being drunk. As have several male posters on here. He then suggested she should accept responsibility for that and should leave. Saying she should leave to recover with family members and come back to persue the case later is not what was suggested at all. As another poster pointed out, counter suing is an age old attack in  Thailand to force people to drop the case. In the case of rape, being drunk is an automatic  licence to drop the case and blame the victims. Going home will see another public transport worker exonerated of rape because "she was drunk" . Let's face it thai police will do anything they can to get out of the uncomfortable position of going to court about a rape. 

 

[SunsetT]

On 11/12/2016 at 9:35 AM, NongKhaiKid said:

keep testing until they get the results they want ?

Like Koh Tao.......

 

...........Or until they find some Burmese scapegoats.

[sweatalot]

3 hours ago, sweatalot said:

 

 

5 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

 

Abusing? Do you read your own posts?

 

but I'm truly sorry if I upset you by responding to your posts.

This is for you, my poor farcanell,   but also for many other posters who also lack some important capabilities

I am sorry you lack the capabilities to follow me and cannot understand facts, justice and logic

 

Here for those with an IQ below 60:

 

All I am saying is:

Rape is a crime and has to be punished.

But it has to be proven - like every other crime.

 

I am surprised it is even necessary to mention this. 

 

If a woman says she has been raped it is nothing but a claim until it can be proven or has been admitted by the perp..

The police and/ or the coroner have the duty to find out the truth - which means if there is proof for a rape or not.

Unfortunately many times they just believe the woman and do nothing to check her claim.

 

There are more than enough cases where women abused those powers given them by an imperfect law.

Only the cases where famous men have been accused of rape - and proven innocent (like Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Karl Dall, Jörg Kachelmann, ... ) make it to the public. And also some cases where men tragically ended their life  because they could not live with  the traumatic experience of being innocent and treated like a criminal - losing their livelihood and their friends

 

Unfortunately it is enough for any woman to claim she has been raped (by usually someone she knows) to put him into prison and destroy his life - even if later his innocence has been proven his live is damaged forever. This is wrong and it happens too often.

 

I never claimed that Australian woman faked the rape. But I say until it can be proven it is not more than a claim. (You heard about the scientific SOP? If it is proven it is true. If not proven  it might be true or false but it cannot be considered as true) Police has to investigate professionally and neutral - not only to protect a possibly innocent man but also to help the woman to her right if her claim is true.

 

While reading this threat and posting I understood that there is as majority of tv members posting here who lack either intelligence or a profound understanding of reality.  Or both They have disqualified themseves.

 

If I consider the woman might lie because her claim has not (yet?) been proven (except by an unsubstantiated claim that doctors say she was raped) most of the posters  react automatically and thoughtless like I pushed a button - the same kind of button that was working some 50 years ago when somebody dard to claim black people are human and equal.

 

And btw. May be you have heard about the tragic event of sudden child death - when a before healthy baby was found dead in bed. In this case the coroner toconfiscates the dead body for autopsy do make sure it has not been killed. Can you imagine what the poor parents have to go trough - losing their most precious and finding themselves under suspicion of murder? On  the end of the day it might be helpful for them because normally it proves they did nothing wrong and they need not blame themselves and nobody else has the right to do so. 

 

Can anybody here see the parallell to the also tragic cases of rape? Investigating can  not only help wrongly accused men, it can also help the raped woman to get their right. 

I have been thinking times are over when an unproven claim could destroy lives of innocent people.

In this threat obviously not.

May be I am expecting a normal level of intelligence and education in this forum.

Edited December 12, 2016 by sweatalot

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

The previous poster said that she had made a grave error by being drunk. As have several male posters on here.

 

   I have been out drinking before and I have woken up in some strange places with strange people , usually with empty pockets and participated in things that I was unable to give consent too .

   I do not try to blame the other person and neither do I blame myself and neither do I call the Police .

    It was just a good night out

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

 

This is for you, my poor farcanell,   but also for many other posters who also lack some important capabilities

I am sorry you lack the capabilities to follow me and cannot understand facts, justice and logic

 

Here for those with an IQ below 60:

 

All I am saying is:

Rape is a crime and has to be punished.

But it has to be proven - like every other crime.

 

I am surprised it is even necessary to mention this. 

 

If a woman says she has been raped it is nothing but a claim until it can be proven or has been admitted by the perp..

The police and/ or the coroner have the duty to find out the truth - which means if there is proof for a rape or not.

Unfortunately many times they just believe the woman and do nothing to check her claim.

 

There are more than enough cases where women abused those powers given them by an imperfect law.

Only the cases where famous men have been accused of rape - and proven innocent (like Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Karl Dall, Jörg Kachelmann, ... ) make it to the public. And also some cases where men tragically ended their life  because they could not live with  the traumatic experience of being innocent and treated like a criminal - losing their livelihood and their friends

 

Unfortunately it is enough for any woman to claim she has been raped (by usually someone she knows) to put him into prison and destroy his life - even if later his innocence has been proven his live is damaged forever. This is wrong and it happens too often.

 

I never claimed that Australian woman faked the rape. But I say until it can be proven it is not more than a claim. (You heard about the scientific SOP? If it is proven it is true. If not proven  it might be true or false but it cannot be considered as true) Police has to investigate professionally and neutral - not only to protect a possibly innocent man but also to help the woman to her right if her claim is true.

 

While reading this threat and posting I understood that there is as majority of tv members posting here who lack either intelligence or a profound understanding of reality.  Or both They have disqualified themseves.

 

If I consider the woman might lie because her claim has not (yet?) been proven (except by an unsubstantiated claim that doctors say she was raped) most of the posters  react automatically and thoughtless like I pushed a button - the same kind of button that was working some 50 years ago when somebody dard to claim black people are human and equal.

 

And btw. May be you have heard about the tragic event of sudden child death - when a before healthy baby was found dead in bed. In this case the coroner toconfiscates the dead body for autopsy do make sure it has not been killed. Can you imagine what the poor parents have to go trough - losing their most precious and finding themselves under suspicion of murder? On  the end of the day it might be helpful for them because normally it proves they did nothing wrong and they need not blame themselves and nobody else has the right to do so. 

 

Can anybody here see the parallell to the also tragic cases of rape? Investigating can  not only help wrongly accused men, it can also help the raped woman to get their right. 

I have been thinking times are over when an unproven claim could destroy lives of innocent people.

In this threat obviously not.

May be I am expecting a normal level of intelligence and education in this forum.

 

I'm too scared to respond in depth in case you report me for being abusive, which was your weak response to an intelligent post earlier.

 

mind you, this has been your best post yet, on the topic, even if insulting myself and other posters with that IQ comment.... it's a pity you didn't start at the top of your game, vs being cohered into an intelligent post  

 

oh damn... it did it again.  

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

 

   I have been out drinking before and I have woken up in some strange places with strange people , usually with empty pockets and participated in things that I was unable to give consent too .

   I do not try to blame the other person and neither do I blame myself and neither do I call the Police .

    It was just a good night out

 

Pathetic comparison. 

There's quite a difference between getting drunk, jumping in the sack with a stranger only to regret it the next morning and a public transport person picking up his mate ,taking you to an abandoned area slapping you around, forcing you to be subjected to their filth .

This girl is 21 years, on holiday out enjoying herself. She did nothing wrong. Last year, a taxi driver raped his passenger and she was blamed also. She shouldn't be drunk she shouldn't be out alone at night. She should know better than to take a taxi.

Bull---- .  People said the same about hannah too. She went behind the rocks to have consensual sex with multiple men. 

Sicko 

[sanemax]

20 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Bull---- .  People said the same about hannah too. She went behind the rocks to have consensual sex with multiple men. 

Sicko 

 

    You are calling me a "sicko" for something that I havent said and something that I do not think .

  You are labeling me as being a "sicko" because of what some other people may think, although I do not recalling anyone saying what you posed above, so, I think that you made that up .

   If I go out drinking , if I were to get drunk, then I accept that I was responsible for getting drunk and I have to face /deal with the consequences

[greenchair]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    You are calling me a "sicko" for something that I havent said and something that I do not think .

  You are labeling me as being a "sicko" because of what some other people may think, although I do not recalling anyone saying what you posed above, so, I think that you made that up .

   If I go out drinking , if I were to get drunk, then I accept that I was responsible for getting drunk and I have to face /deal with the consequenc

[greenchair]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

    You are calling me a "sicko" for something that I havent said and something that I do not think .

  You are labeling me as being a "sicko" because of what some other people may think, although I do not recalling anyone saying what you posed above, so, I think that you made that up .

   If I go out drinking , if I were to get drunk, then I accept that I was responsible for getting drunk and I have to face /deal with the consequences

 

If you wouldn't mind 2 males holding you down and putting their noodles in your bowl then fine. 

It doesn't matter if you mind or not. It's illegal. Now this young lady did mind and she is using her right to bring this to the attention of the authorities. 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

 

If you wouldn't mind 2 males holding you down and putting their noodles in your bowl then fine. 

It doesn't matter if you mind or not. It's illegal. Now this young lady did mind and she is using her right to bring this to the attention of the authorities. 

 

     Errmm where did I state that I wouldnt mind getting raped ?

You are making things up again .

I merely said that I would be responsible for getting drunk .

Yes, rape is illegal and abhorrent and rapists need to be taken from the streets and locked up

[greenchair]

10 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

     Errmm where did I state that I wouldnt mind getting raped ?

You are making things up again .

I merely said that I would be responsible for getting drunk .

Yes, rape is illegal and abhorrent and rapists need to be taken from the streets and locked up

 

What you said was if you get drunk and strange things happen during night then you accept the consequences and not report it to the police because it's your own fault for being drunk. So, you are saying if someone is drunk and gets raped then they should take responsibility for that because they were drunk. 

But oh how things change when we talk about getting a noodle in your bowl when drunk, as opposed to putting your noodle in someone else's bowl whilst drunk. Oh right, then it's rape, when we talk about your bowl. Because that's what this poor girl endured. Drunk or not, she isn't responsible for that. 

[sweatalot]

16 hours ago, farcanell said:

 

I'm too scared to respond in depth in case you report me for being abusive, which was your weak response to an intelligent post earlier.

 

mind you, this has been your best post yet, on the topic, even if insulting myself and other posters with that IQ comment.... it's a pity you didn't start at the top of your game, vs being cohered into an intelligent post  

 

oh damn... it did it again.  

 Thank you for this post.
I have to return your  "compliment" 
this post seems to be your best post yet in this thread.
My last post? May be only because I tried to make it clear for everybody. (no insult intended)
My intention was always to make clear that a claim of a crime is a claim only - until the crime has been proven). And too many people are missing this.  In particular in the case of rape. Unfortunately many men have been victim of wrong accusations. Some lost their lives. Google it. Here is one link http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/ 
You seem to believe I claimed different things in my earlier posts. That's not true
Let me repeat:
In all my posts here I never  disputed the following (even if not mentioning it in particular) :
Rape is a crime and has to be punished.
It has to be proven - like every other crime.
Somebody who has been raped is a victim and needs help and understanding.
Somebody who makes a (proven) false accusation of being raped is a criminal and has to be punished
 I am surprised it is even necessary to mention this. 
And:
I never claimed the Australian woman faked the rape. But I say until it can be proven it is not more than a claim.
I will not read my posts again, but I have to admit that sometimes my answers might have been polemic or in a style of an advocatus diaboli. And I was always on the side of the men who were victim of false accusation AND of the women who really have been raped.
Let me end with wishing you less misunderstandings in the future. (No insult intended, I did NOT say wishing you more understanding...)