Thai fruit wine, new name for all wines in Thailand to reduce tax ?

[rickudon]

200 baht a litre would be a good price in the UK .......

[chickenrunCM]

22 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

I wound not trust it. I have tried an Australian wine from the Big C supermarket at 169 Baht a bottle. It tasted perfect. The only Thai drink I trust is Chang beer knowing it has won the top prize at 2 European beer festivals.

Where you get your information from? Chang never won and will never win any prize in an European Beer Festival, what a jike!

You find 500 better beers in Europe

[chickenslegs]

For just 50 Baht more than the Peter Vella/Mont Clair et al, fruit wines, Tesco Lotus have a range of Australian wines called Vinyards World Wines - 2 whites and 3 reds which are quite drinkable. For some reason they stick a yellow label over the picture of a kangaroo on the original label (maybe some people would be confused and think that the bottle contains kangaroo juice).

 

Also, Tesco's "Finest" range has some decent bottles from 499 Baht - The Chianti Riserva @ 599 Baht is a treat.

 

Here is a link to the online shop and the full range... https://shoponline.tescolotus.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/beverages-snacks-and-desserts/alcoholic-beverages/wine?sortBy=priceAscending&page=1

 

Yes, I know, still at least double the price of "back home".

Edited February 19, 2017 by chickenslegs

[abab]

3 hours ago, rickudon said:

Interesting.I have drunk Peter Vella and it is ok as a basic table wine. Currently i buy Castle Creek Red, and yes, it is a fruit wine - but bottled in Australia and better than the Vella. Has a blue label but quite reasonable at under 400 baht for 2 litres, I have tried some of the sub 200 baht a bottle Thai fruit wines, and they were appalling, better off to drink Spy than those.....

Peter Vella and Castle Creek, both with Mont clair are some of the wines that I will never drink again even for free. You really know nothing about wine and really have no taste, right ?

[likeke]

I must say I love my bottle of red wine with dinner at night. I am from California USA and believe it to be one of the best areas of the world for wine. But it is way too expensive in Thailand, so when I am in Bangkok I drink the fruit wine at 299 baht (Mont Clair), a little under $10. I confess that the fruit wine takes ok, and I get the same kick from it as any good California wine. BTW, South Africa also has inexpensive red wine and tastes just fine at about 300-400 baht with higher alcohol content at up to 14.5%.

[superal]

We are told that real red wine i.e.   red wine that is fermented in the cask / bottle is supposed to be good for you health and longevity if drank in moderation , however I ask the question , especially to the wine snobs ( friendly term intended ) , does fortified wine give the same medical  benefits ?

 

                   Secondly I read somewhere recently that the real  wine to buy in Thailand and the most reliable was  Jacobs Creek .  

                   Right or wrong ?

[craigt3365]

14 hours ago, abab said:

Wine connection has real wine for 399 thb.

 

Are you sure?  We got some at the same price.  In VERY fine print on the back were the words "fruit wine".  The label said France.  Even said the region.  But it was fruit wine, not real.  I was quite upset they didn't point this out.  It was OK wine, but the deceptive label put me off.

 

If you want to save a few Baht, some fruit wine is OK.  But you need to know what you are buying. 

[abab]

13 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Are you sure?  We got some at the same price.  In VERY fine print on the back were the words "fruit wine".  The label said France.  Even said the region.  But it was fruit wine, not real.  I was quite upset they didn't point this out.  It was OK wine, but the deceptive label put me off.

 

If you want to save a few Baht, some fruit wine is OK.  But you need to know what you are buying. 

 

 

Seems to be real ?

 

https://www.wineconnection.co.th/buy-wine-online/red-wine/birchgrove-r.html

 

Other cheap bottles have FRUIT WINE written in the description.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by abab

[abab]

4 hours ago, likeke said:

I must say I love my bottle of red wine with dinner at night. I am from California USA and believe it to be one of the best areas of the world for wine. But it is way too expensive in Thailand, so when I am in Bangkok I drink the fruit wine at 299 baht (Mont Clair), a little under $10. I confess that the fruit wine takes ok, and I get the same kick from it as any good California wine. BTW, South Africa also has inexpensive red wine and tastes just fine at about 300-400 baht with higher alcohol content at up to 14.5%.

 

 

Forget Montclair, I have been drinking it but cannot anymore, too ugly.

 

Try another 299/bottle fruit wine called MARYSOL, a lot better and acceptable.

 

This costs 800 thb at Lotus:

 

http://www.wine-now.com/mar-y-sol-chilean-red-4000-ml.html

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by abab

[craigt3365]

14 minutes ago, abab said:

 

 

Seems to be real ?

 

https://www.wineconnection.co.th/buy-wine-online/red-wine/birchgrove-r.html

 

Other cheap bottles have FRUIT WINE written in the description.

 

 

I'm seeing Birchgrove sell for about $10AU in Australia.  No way it can sell for the same price here.  Did a google search and the only place I can find that wine is here in Thailand.  Hmmm....

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, abab said:

 

 

Forget Montclair, I have been drinking it but cannot anymore, too ugly.

 

Try another 299/bottle fruit wine called MARYSOL, a lot better and acceptable.

 

This costs 800 thb at Lotus:

 

http://www.wine-now.com/mar-y-sol-chilean-red-4000-ml.html

 

 

Makro has Brookford, fruit wine.  It's OK.  I keep a box in the fridge for when I just want one glass of wine and don't want to open a 600B bottle! 

 

We live in wine purgatory here.  Same with beer.  The big producers have locked it up so others can't get in.  Corruption at it's worst. LOL

 

From a post above:

http://wineandabout.com/business/fruit-appearing-shelves/

Quote

However, what these wines are composed of is usually placed on back labels in extremely small print stating “Fruit Wine”.

 

 

[Speedo1968]

Try making your own wine from Rose Apple ( chompoo ).   Don't mix with other fruit.

I have only done this with rose apples from Malaysia, as an experiment and only a small amount.

This was in the late 1990's, when I put my large sports bag full of rose apples through the X-ray machine at the airport all the alarms went off, the police came and I had to open the bag.   I was eventually allowed to put the bag on the flight after it was fully inspected and I had eaten a couple of the fruit to prove what they were.

[xylophone]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:03 PM, amjamj said:

I just found out !

http://wineandabout.com/business/fruit-appearing-shelves/

That is a very good article and fully reflects what I and a few others have been saying on the "Montclair Wine" thread which seems to have died down now.

 

Like others have said (as well as the article) there seems to be an effort by the producers of this stuff to hide the fact that it is fruit wine, thereby noting it in very small print, and this in particular with Montclair from Siam winery.

 

There are many bottles and boxed wines now from Australia, where the fruit juice is added before it is exported, so this can confuse the consumer and just the other day I heard a couple from South Africa discussing the virtues of a boxed wine from that country, totally unaware that it contained fruit juice.

 

The Wine Connection has been sourcing some of its wine (the Jump Yards range) from Vietnam, where the wine is produced, along with fruit juice (black fruits in the case of red wine and passion fruit juice in many of the whites) and pricing it accordingly.

 

Along with Thailand, Australia, South Africa, Vietnam and the USA, come a few wines from France which also have fruit juice added, Belleville being one and another in bottle and box (cask) called "Les fleur de Galets" (or similar).

 

All the time the punitive tax system in Thailand applies to wine, then these fruit wines will continue to find their way on the shelves here and for many people, the occasional glass is just fine, however when I buy wine, I want to buy WINE (definition being an alcoholic drink made purely from grapes) and yes, I have tried some of these fruit laced wines, and I don't like them.

 

As another poster has pointed out, Tesco Lotus occasionally have some of their Tesco brand wines at between 499 and 549 baht a bottle and I consider them to be good value, especially the Montepulciano d'Abruzzo 2015 and one of my hobbies is to continually scour the shelves of various wine shops and supermarkets looking for miss-priced wines and end of line bargains and I do find a few........... on that note Tesco Lotus had a clear out of fine wines possibly about 18 months ago as I recall and I was picking up wines previously priced at 1500 baht plus for 399 baht and I bought possibly well over 100 bottles in total of some great Zinfandel, Brunello di Montalcino and a South African red, the name of which escapes me right now.

 

Staying on the subject of Tesco's wine, another poster pointed out that there is a particular wine which sells for around 349 baht a bottle and purports to be the real deal from Australia and I have looked on the labels of this wine and I can't find anything which relates to the additional fruit juice, so maybe this one has sneaked through somehow, and any feedback on it would be welcome.

 

So now we all know the situation here it's up to everyone to make their own minds up and if people don't have a problem with fruit juice added to their wine, then so be it, and if folks like wine made from grapes, then seek out those which represent good value.

[thaibook]

sorry if I have missed the answer or if I am just thick, but in fruit wine is alcohol added to fruit juice and grape juice or is it wine (fermented grape juice) to which some 5%-15% of fermented fruit (other than grape) juice has been added or is it wine to which unfermented fruit juice has been added?  Is alcohol, other than from the grape and fruit fermentation, also added?

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, thaibook said:

sorry if I have missed the answer or if I am just thick, but in fruit wine is alcohol added to fruit juice and grape juice or is it wine (fermented grape juice) to which some 5%-15% of fermented fruit (other than grape) juice has been added or is it wine to which unfermented fruit juice has been added?  Is alcohol, other than from the grape and fruit fermentation, also added?

 

 

 

 

No, you are not thick and in truth, the answer is not easy to come by and I have tried to find out by contacting Siam winery and the producers of Berri Estates in Australia, all to no avail.

 

There are 2-3 probable scenarios, one whereby fruit juice is added to the grape juice and they are fermented together (or a variation on that whereby the fruit juice is fermented separately and then added later) or that grape juice, unfermented is added to the final mix.

 

I think the mixing of fruit juice and grape juice and then the fermentation of both is more likely, although no one has been able to find out and the wineries do not seem to be giving up their secrets easily and if they had their way they wouldn't even put the words "Fruit Wine" on the labels, or should I say back labels.

 

As for the "Birchgrove" wine from Wine Connection, well I haven't had chance to look at a bottle so I may well pop in and see for myself what it is all about because it seems very cheap. Having said that it does come from the Riverina area in south-east Australia which is famous for its bulk/cask wines and which generally doesn't produce anything stunning other than everyday drinker's, because the area is subject to irrigated vines which doesn't make for good wine quality as a rule.

 

It is quite possible that it is a blend of several producers bulk wine which they have in surplus, so in real terms it would cost something like two or three dollars if bought as a "clean skins" type wine in Australia, so perhaps Wine Connection have found a way to get it here and retail it for 369 baht?

 

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, superal said:

We are told that real red wine i.e.   red wine that is fermented in the cask / bottle is supposed to be good for you health and longevity if drank in moderation , however I ask the question , especially to the wine snobs ( friendly term intended ) , does fortified wine give the same medical  benefits ?

 

                   Secondly I read somewhere recently that the real  wine to buy in Thailand and the most reliable was  Jacobs Creek .  

                   Right or wrong ?

As a wine enthusiast and longtime collector (and unfortunately/fortunately drinker) I think I can give you a pretty good response to your question(s).

 

The health benefits of red wine come from a couple of areas, one being the alcohol (obviously in moderation) and the other being the proanthocyanidins and resveratrol present in the wine through the fermentation process which extracts these antioxidants from the skins, seeds and even the stalks of the red grapes. Resveratrol is actually a polyphenol which acts like an antioxidant and both of these are reported to be good for one's health, especially heart health and arteries etc.

 

Fortified wine is a wine which has its fermentation process halted by the addition of alcohol, usually obtained from distilling some of the wine from the previous season, which adds to the alcohol content whilst retaining some sweetness because stopping the fermentation process means that some of the sugar inherent within the grapes does not get converted to alcohol, so that is the reason why ports in particular have that sweetness about them, as well as the high alcohol content........... so if the fortified wine is produced from red grapes then the explanation I gave above still applies with regards to the antioxidants, although the intake of alcohol will be much greater, so make your own mind up as to the health benefits or not!

 

As for buying Jacobs Creek here in Thailand, well you can do a lot better than this because it has been priced out of the market and what was a good old staple many years ago, IMO doesn't fit the bill these days – – overpriced now for what it is.

[William C F Pierce]

19 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

Where you get your information from? Chang never won and will never win any prize in an European Beer Festival, what a jike!

You find 500 better beers in Europe

On both occasions it was reported in the UK press. It's alright if you like 500 bottles of cats p*ss, you're probably to drunk on it to know any better.

[chickenrunCM]

2 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

On both occasions it was reported in the UK press. It's alright if you like 500 bottles of cats p*ss, you're probably to drunk on it to know any better.

if you know anything about beer than you would know that chang beer is even in Thailand one of the worst beer. And i worked in Czech Republic and germany for different breweries and no of them had any beer in production what was on this lowest Chang level. 

To say that Chang or any other Thai beer can go even in competition with any of the top 200 european brands, shows that you know nothing about beer. 

If in Thailand would no be such a high import tax on beer, Chang would sell less than 1% what they are selling today. 

Beer is cheaper, better produced and more tastfull in Europe

[William C F Pierce]

42 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

if you know anything about beer than you would know that chang beer is even in Thailand one of the worst beer. And i worked in Czech Republic and germany for different breweries and no of them had any beer in production what was on this lowest Chang level. 

To say that Chang or any other Thai beer can go even in competition with any of the top 200 european brands, shows that you know nothing about beer. 

If in Thailand would no be such a high import tax on beer, Chang would sell less than 1% what they are selling today. 

Beer is cheaper, better produced and more tastfull in Europe

I use to experience the taste of many different beers in a pub near Hampton Court West London that use to import from Europe and all over the world. Your just a typical Thai Basher that will bash everything Thai and not give them credit for anything. The best beer I ever tasted was Ringners from Norway. Just because something is taxed high does not make necessarily better than something Thai.

[superal]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

As a wine enthusiast and longtime collector (and unfortunately/fortunately drinker) I think I can give you a pretty good response to your question(s).

 

The health benefits of red wine come from a couple of areas, one being the alcohol (obviously in moderation) and the other being the proanthocyanidins and resveratrol present in the wine through the fermentation process which extracts these antioxidants from the skins, seeds and even the stalks of the red grapes. Resveratrol is actually a polyphenol which acts like an antioxidant and both of these are reported to be good for one's health, especially heart health and arteries etc.

 

Fortified wine is a wine which has its fermentation process halted by the addition of alcohol, usually obtained from distilling some of the wine from the previous season, which adds to the alcohol content whilst retaining some sweetness because stopping the fermentation process means that some of the sugar inherent within the grapes does not get converted to alcohol, so that is the reason why ports in particular have that sweetness about them, as well as the high alcohol content........... so if the fortified wine is produced from red grapes then the explanation I gave above still applies with regards to the antioxidants, although the intake of alcohol will be much greater, so make your own mind up as to the health benefits or not!

 

As for buying Jacobs Creek here in Thailand, well you can do a lot better than this because it has been priced out of the market and what was a good old staple many years ago, IMO doesn't fit the bill these days – – overpriced now for what it is.

Many thanks , very informative & good post 

[AbeSurd]

If you can't hold down Mont Clair you've only yourself to blame

[superal]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Many thanks , very informative & good post 

I , having digested your reply am still in the dark as regards the benefits , i.e fortified / naturally fermented wine . I realise that the grape is the giver of many good things healthwise but do you think that the adding of other fruits and alcohol may dilute the potency ?

I am no wine connoisseur but enjoy Jacobs Creek as a genuine wine . Please give me better alternatives that are readily available without me having to trek halfway across Thailand  .  I am sure you know that one man's meat is another man's poison because we all have different tastes , so I have to say that there is nothing better  for me than to drink red wine along with a mature cheese , that is a marriage made in heaven .  

[xylophone]

10 hours ago, superal said:

I , having digested your reply am still in the dark as regards the benefits , i.e fortified / naturally fermented wine . I realise that the grape is the giver of many good things healthwise but do you think that the adding of other fruits and alcohol may dilute the potency ?

I am no wine connoisseur but enjoy Jacobs Creek as a genuine wine . Please give me better alternatives that are readily available without me having to trek halfway across Thailand  .  I am sure you know that one man's meat is another man's poison because we all have different tastes , so I have to say that there is nothing better  for me than to drink red wine along with a mature cheese , that is a marriage made in heaven .  

Thank you for your compliment earlier on, and I think we may have a "misunderstanding" with regards to terminology.

 

Fortified wine usually refers to wine to which a distilled spirit is added (Port for example) and that is what I thought you meant, but perhaps you are meaning "fortified" by means of the addition of fruit/fruit wine? Again the general term for that seems to be "aromatised" wine.

 

If you are meaning the wine which has had fruit juice/fruit wine added, then depending upon which fruit it is, it is quite possible that this too will have its share of antioxidants, but possibly not in such great abundance. Overall, I don't believe the addition of fruit juice/fruit wine to grape wine will dilute its health benefits by too much.

 

If you like Jacobs Creek, then stick with it, because as you say everyone's tastes are different, however you may wish to pick up a bottle of "Barwang, The Wall" either Shiraz or Cabernet Sauvignon and see what you think of that. Alternatively as already mentioned Tesco Lotus does have its own wines and the Italian Montepulciano d'Abruzzo 2015 is a lovely easy drinking and fruity wine.

 

I have found a wine outlet here (in Phuket) where I can buy the Barwang mentioned above for about 440 baht a bottle and a few other Aussie wines of similar ilk for the same price. 

 

Good luck and good hunting (and good tasting).

[Jai Dee]

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

As for buying Jacobs Creek here in Thailand, well you can do a lot better than this because it has been priced out of the market and what was a good old staple many years ago, IMO doesn't fit the bill these days – – overpriced now for what it is.

Back in Oz you would only ever buy Jacob's Creek if having a BBQ with your mates and their families.

Never for the table.

Not wishing to be seen as a wine snob but there are so many much better alternatives.

 

In Thailand we're a bit short on options, and the 300-400% duty makes it relatively expensive compared with home country prices.

 

Some of my personal favourites which can be found at Tesco Lotus are Hideaway Bay Sauvignon Blanc New Zealand White Wine (695 baht), Hay Maker Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc White Wine (679 baht), Penfolds Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet Red Wine (799 baht), Wolf Blass Yellow Label Cabernet Sauvignon Red Wine (779 baht), and Wyndham Estate Bin 555 Shiraz (599 baht).

 

All can be purchased online from Tesco Lotus here.

[overherebc]

On 19/02/2017 at 0:55 PM, little mary sunshine said:

OMG people, unless you're a wino treat yourself 

to a nice bottle of wine to have with your dinner,

rent, electric, Thai food is so inexpensive why all

the whining about the price of a bottle of wine!

 

Some people just have to bitch!!

What's being discussed here is not wine. It's a mixture of cheap wine with various things like fruit juice, usually pear juice, milk, eggs and what is loosely referred to as 'sulphites' whatever they are.

'Wine' is a whole different ball game.

[overherebc]

12 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

If you can't hold down Mont Clair you've only yourself to blame

Not really wine though is it?

[xylophone]

19 minutes ago, overherebc said:

What's being discussed here is not wine. It's a mixture of cheap wine with various things like fruit juice, usually pear juice, milk, eggs and what is loosely referred to as 'sulphites' whatever they are.

'Wine' is a whole different ball game.

I agree with you as regards these fruit juice added wines as I don't like them one bit, but then again some people seem okay with them.

 

The thought of adding various juices (from red fruits in red wine to white fruits in white wine) just doesn't do it for me I'm afraid, however there is something we cannot get away from and that is the fact that wine made from grapes can be fined with egg whites (to clarify the wine) and sulphites are used, not only in the vineyard prior to harvest, but added to the wine to "disinfect" it and also in some instances to stop secondary fermentation.

 

Sulphur/sulphites have been used in wine since time immemorial although there are some producers who try to limit it and even "organic" wines are still permitted to use a small amount of it in the vineyard or in the production of the wine.

 

So I suppose we are stuck with that and it's what most of us have become used to, but the addition of fruit juice to wine I will never really get used to..............

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I agree with you as regards these fruit juice added wines as I don't like them one bit, but then again some people seem okay with them.

 

The thought of adding various juices (from red fruits in red wine to white fruits in white wine) just doesn't do it for me I'm afraid, however there is something we cannot get away from and that is the fact that wine made from grapes can be fined with egg whites (to clarify the wine) and sulphites are used, not only in the vineyard prior to harvest, but added to the wine to "disinfect" it and also in some instances to stop secondary fermentation.

 

Sulphur/sulphites have been used in wine since time immemorial although there are some producers who try to limit it and even "organic" wines are still permitted to use a small amount of it in the vineyard or in the production of the wine.

 

So I suppose we are stuck with that and it's what most of us have become used to, but the addition of fruit juice to wine I will never really get used to..............

What would worry me is what is added but not mentioned.

[xylophone]

Just now, overherebc said:

What would worry me is what is added but not mentioned.

Yes, you make a good point because we don't know what else is added (or if the normal additives are increased) to ensure that the end product is "stable" and really safe to drink?

 

 

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Yes, you make a good point because we don't know what else is added (or if the normal additives are increased) to ensure that the end product is "stable" and really safe to drink?

 

 

Excellent point.  Sometimes eggs are added and that could be dangerous to people who are allergic to them.