Working in Thailand - Define Work...

[Don Mega]

Tsunami and work permit thread.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/26847-charity-workers-must-get-work-permits/

[LeftFootRightEar]

Thanks everyone.  I was asking because I read that when you're interested in long-term stay, they like to see money coming into your account, showing that you're not at risk of working in Thailand illegally, therefore removing Thai jobs from the market.  So if my income source is the same as it would be if I lived in my home country and I happen to be in Thailand, it shouldn't bother anyone.  In fact, it would make me seem like less of a risk, correct?  How would it be viewed differently than say, owning and renting property in the States, receiving income from it while living in Thailand.

[CLW]

Thanks everyone.  I was asking because I read that when you're interested in long-term stay, they like to see money coming into your account, showing that you're not at risk of working in Thailand illegally, therefore removing Thai jobs from the market.  So if my income source is the same as it would be if I lived in my home country and I happen to be in Thailand, it shouldn't bother anyone.  In fact, it would make me seem like less of a risk, correct?  How would it be viewed differently than say, owning and renting property in the States, receiving income from it while living in Thailand.

What you describe, isn't it active and passive income?
Like you could read, even you do all your work abroad online, but physically stay in Thailand, it's considered work.
Passive income should be no problem.

[Savilesghost]

5 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I am sorry but I don't recall this particular incident you mention here, so I can't really comment on why the government wouldn't allow Volunteers to help for free. I can only guess that a Volunteer is classified under government regulations as needing a Work Permit, as under normal circumstances they are given some form of consideration to do that type of work. As in free housing and food. It appears they don't have any laws in place to cover special circumstances, as in your case when a Volunteer is willing to work totally for free.

 

You said not all work in Thailand is paid work and I agree with you. But let me expand on that further to define "Paid" as not only including a cash payment, but also any form of Consideration that has value. For example if you were a Condo Manager who was given a free place to stay to collect rent and keep the place clean, then you would actually be a paid worker and therefore require a Work Permit.  

 

So understanding "Paid Work" as meaning to receive anything of value for your labor is very important to know when you consider who needs a Work Permit, and who doesn't. Surely you don't believe that if a man who helps his wife doing up the supper dishes he risks being thrown out of the country and banned, for not having a Work Permit. Or a man working on his garden. Or a man picking up rubbish and paper bags that blew into his yard requires a Work Permit.

 

However if this same man working in his garden has plans to sell all of his vegetables at he open market,  or the man picking up rubbish is on;y picking up empty beer cans and pop bottles he plans to sell later, then technically he would need a Work Permit. See  the difference?

 

Why are you making up legal definitions and then interpreting your own definitions when under the current rules no such clarifcations or definitions exist, why would they have rules to cover special circumstances ?

 

If your go to the trouble to define all special circumstances, they are hardly special circumstances anymore, are they ? 

 

Currently its the DOL who decide and define what is and isnt considered work on a case for case basis...and your examples of washing dishing helping Mrs or doing your own garden are just plain silly and even the DOL one suspects would not interpret these as "working" contray to what the all knowing farangs, who have never worked in Thailand or ever had any dealings with the DOL, this gov department is one of the better ones and quite professional

 

In the case of the Tsumani  volunteer thing, one suspects this decision was made by some jobsworthy who may have been making decisions outside his remit in that case, Goverment officals going off half cocked does not just occur in Thailand 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[muzmurray]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

OK, you tell me what the difference is between 'exerting effort' and exerting energy'?

 

Bloody semantics!

 

Not semantics, you only quoted half the sentence, you did not mention the use of knowledge or whether paid or unpaid. That is not semantics - those are facts !

[muzmurray]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Yes but it will never say the person is suspected of working. The Immigration department doesn't give a hoot about illegal workers until they are brought to their attention by the plod working with the Labour office whereupon they handle the exit proceedings.

 

You might want to read the post below before making such sweeping statements;

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

OK Dr Sherlock, perhaps you can enlighten us all with your infinite wisdom.

 

What doesn't and does constitute work where a work permit would be required.

Unpaid work for yourself or your family would not require a WP. If it did, merely buying tools or nails at Home Pro would be grounds for arrest.

Any other activity that could be described as "work", whether paid or not needs official permission.

Farangs were arrested in Chiang Mai a few years back for joining a band in a bar for a jam session.

Farangs have been arrested for merely greeting customers in their own bar.

I met a farang that owned a restaurant, but could not make himself breakfast in his own kitchen.

[muzmurray]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unpaid work for yourself or your family would not require a WP. If it did, merely buying tools or nails at Home Pro would be grounds for arrest.

Any other activity that could be described as "work", whether paid or not needs official permission.

Farangs were arrested in Chiang Mai a few years back for joining a band in a bar for a jam session.

Farangs have been arrested for merely greeting customers in their own bar.

I met a farang that owned a restaurant, but could not make himself breakfast in his own kitchen.

 

I think you meant to use the word foreigner/s - Labour and Immigration laws do not just apply to white Westerners.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

I think you meant to use the word foreigner/s - Labour and Immigration laws do not just apply to white Westerners.

True, but the specific examples I gave involved farangs.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

The reason behind Volunteer Work being considered as work as there is some form of Consideration attached to that. Free Housing! Free Food! Per Diem perhaps!

 

You are confuse in that perhaps being paid means receiving money. It actually mean being given a "Consideration" for your work. If someone offered you a New Mercedes to pave his driveway, then tax wise this would be considered equal to being paid this in cash.

 

The way I had it explained to me once is that if you build a statue to put that on your front lawn, then that is okay. If a friend sees this and wants you to build him one, for some free beers, then it is not okay. If you decide to do this for free and give it to him as a gift, then again it is okay.

Actually, with voluntourism in Thailand, the sucker volunteer PAYS for their accomodation/ food etc, but still officially needs approval to work for free. It's a thriving business in LOS catering for idealistic western suckers tourists.

[Ace of Pop]

All this comes under How to Circumvent the Regs to stay n play here .Genuine folk with real skills to pass on to Thais have no problems at all


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Peterw42]

The letter of the law exists for when people abuse the spirit of the law. 

No one will care less if you drive your friends to the airport once a year and they give you some petrol money. That is the spirit of the law.

Buy a mini van and drive "friends" to the airport everday for payment. then cop the letter of the law.

 

Every story on Thaivisa about getting fined for washing his car etc, always turns out to be other than reported and usually involves an abuse of the spirit of the law. The guy was washing 20 cars a day at his illegal car washing business.

 

I am yet to come across one of these stories, usually told 2nd hand, that doesnt have more to it.

[GOLDBUGGY]

7 hours ago, Savilesghost said:

 

Why are you making up legal definitions and then interpreting your own definitions when under the current rules no such clarifcations or definitions exist, why would they have rules to cover special circumstances ?

 

If your go to the trouble to define all special circumstances, they are hardly special circumstances anymore, are they ? 

 

Currently its the DOL who decide and define what is and isnt considered work on a case for case basis...and your examples of washing dishing helping Mrs or doing your own garden are just plain silly and even the DOL one suspects would not interpret these as "working" contray to what the all knowing farangs, who have never worked in Thailand or ever had any dealings with the DOL, this gov department is one of the better ones and quite professional

 

In the case of the Tsumani  volunteer thing, one suspects this decision was made by some jobsworthy who may have been making decisions outside his remit in that case, Goverment officals going off half cocked does not just occur in Thailand 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your scenario of a Volunteer being unable to work in Thailand for free makes it a special circumstance. I didn't suggest that! It was only you who said this happened and I gave you the benefit of doubt of not calling you a liar, and said in YOUR case then this must be a special circumstances.

 

But this time I am not going to give you the benefit of doubt. I have never heard of an Official Volunteer Working coming to a place like Africa, or East Asia, and volunteer his time or skill on some project, and yet having to buy his own airplane tickets, food, and finding his own shelter that he has to pay for. Never! If you can prove that then by all means do so.

 

You call me silly because I discussed how a man helping his wife with the supper dishes is not considered official work, then you tell us a story of a man who can't cook his own breakfast in his own kitchen as this is considered official work. Who is really being silly here? 

 

Look! It is not that complicated and as you make it out to be. The WP Rules are in place to protect Thai Workers, by being turned down a job he could do, but was filled with a Foreign Worker. Every Country has these rules! So these rules are simple also.

 

If you are doing work in Thailand in which you are receiving some sort of payment for that work, either in cash or benefits, then you need a WP. That is it and that is all there is to this! If you want to complicate things with dribble, then you are just confusing the issue because you are confused yourself. That is it and all that is to that as well.    

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I am sorry but I don't recall this particular incident you mention here, so I can't really comment on why the government wouldn't allow Volunteers to help for free. I can only guess that a Volunteer is classified under government regulations as needing a Work Permit, as under normal circumstances they are given some form of consideration to do that type of work. As in free housing and food. It appears they don't have any laws in place to cover special circumstances, as in your case when a Volunteer is willing to work totally for free.

 

You said not all work in Thailand is paid work and I agree with you. But let me expand on that further to define "Paid" as not only including a cash payment, but also any form of Consideration that has value. For example if you were a Condo Manager who was given a free place to stay to collect rent and keep the place clean, then you would actually be a paid worker and therefore require a Work Permit.  

 

So understanding "Paid Work" as meaning to receive anything of value for your labor is very important to know when you consider who needs a Work Permit, and who doesn't. Surely you don't believe that if a man who helps his wife doing up the supper dishes he risks being thrown out of the country and banned, for not having a Work Permit. Or a man working on his garden. Or a man picking up rubbish and paper bags that blew into his yard requires a Work Permit.

 

However if this same man working in his garden has plans to sell all of his vegetables at he open market,  or the man picking up rubbish is on;y picking up empty beer cans and pop bottles he plans to sell later, then technically he would need a Work Permit. See  the difference?

You are incorrect. Many volunteers in LOS pay their own way, but still volunteer their time and expertise, but are required to have official approval. The Chiang Mai immigration office has provision to authorise volunteers, but I have not looked into exactly what that entails.

 

You obviously didn't read all the replies as I already pointed out that it is not necessary to have a WP to do anything in the family home. That is not volunteering.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Your scenario of a Volunteer being unable to work in Thailand for free makes it a special circumstance. I didn't suggest that! It was only you who said this happened and I gave you the benefit of doubt of not calling you a liar, and said in YOUR case then this must be a special circumstances.

 

But this time I am not going to give you the benefit of doubt. I have never heard of an Official Volunteer Working coming to a place like Africa, or East Asia, and volunteer his time or skill on some project, and yet having to buy his own airplane tickets, food, and finding his own shelter that he has to pay for. Never! If you can prove that then by all means do so.

 

You call me silly because I discussed how a man helping his wife with the supper dishes is not considered official work, then you tell us a story of a man who can't cook his own breakfast in his own kitchen as this is considered official work. Who is really being silly here? 

 

Look! It is not that complicated and as you make it out to be. The WP Rules are in place to protect Thai Workers, by being turned down a job he could do, but was filled with a Foreign Worker. Every Country has these rules! So these rules are simple also.

 

If you are doing work in Thailand in which you are receiving some sort of payment for that work, either in cash or benefits, then you need a WP. That is it and that is all there is to this! If you want to complicate things with dribble, then you are just confusing the issue because you are confused yourself. That is it and all that is to that as well.    

Look up any website on volunteering in Thailand and see how much they have to pay to "volunteer" and they certainly have to pay to get to and from Thailand. Thailand is not Africa.

 

The man not able to cook breakfast was about doing so in his restaurant. If he wanted to do so in his home he could do so, of course.

 

The rules do not mention benefits. ANY "work" ( other than at the family home ) requires a WP whether paid or not, whether with benefits or not.

 

I will not debate this with you any longer. It is all on google. Read it or not. OTY.

[GOLDBUGGY]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are incorrect. Many volunteers in LOS pay their own way, but still volunteer their time and expertise, but are required to have official approval. The Chiang Mai immigration office has provision to authorise volunteers, but I have not looked into exactly what that entails.

 

You obviously didn't read all the replies as I already pointed out that it is not necessary to have a WP to do anything in the family home. That is not volunteering.

In post 37 you said this:  

 

" I met a farang that owned a restaurant, but could not make himself breakfast in his own kitchen "

 

So did you say this or didn't you? 

 

Since there are many volunteers in Thailand paying there own way then this should be easy for you to prove. Oh Yeah! I almost forgot! You also said they were refused work because they needed a WP they couldn't get. So what do you call a Volunteer who comes to Thailand but not allowed to work here? A Tourist? A Back Packer? A Dreamer? .  

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Look up any website on volunteering in Thailand and see how much they have to pay to "volunteer" and they certainly have to pay to get to and from Thailand. Thailand is not Africa.

 

The man not able to cook breakfast was about doing so in his restaurant. If he wanted to do so in his home he could do so, of course.

 

The rules do not mention benefits. ANY "work" ( other than at the family home ) requires a WP whether paid or not, whether with benefits or not.

 

I will not debate this with you any longer. It is all on google. Read it or not. OTY.

You are the one who brought it up here and said Volunteers pay all of there own way included flight ticket, accommodations, and meals. It was me who doesn't believe you.

 

So why should I try to prove your bar talk is wrong when it is you who said that? Seems to me the onus is on you. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Look up any website on volunteering in Thailand and see how much they have to pay to "volunteer" and they certainly have to pay to get to and from Thailand. Thailand is not Africa.

 

The man not able to cook breakfast was about doing so in his restaurant. If he wanted to do so in his home he could do so, of course.

 

The rules do not mention benefits. ANY "work" ( other than at the family home ) requires a WP whether paid or not, whether with benefits or not.

 

I will not debate this with you any longer. It is all on google. Read it or not. OTY.

Your example of a man not being able to cook his own breakfast in his own restaurant is all full of holes to. The first question I would ask is why would a man want to do that when he has a paid cook and it is during business hours? I mean if he doesn't like the food she cooks it is time to find a new cook, I would think. 

 

Now if his restaurant is closed down for the night and he stays late to do the books, there is no problem in him cooking up a hamburger. Nobody is going to fault him for that or believe you if you say different.

 

I like another poster comments when he said he has heard plenty of B.S, on this subject but nobody steps forward to prove what they say is true. So by all means prove it. . 

[Savilesghost]

43 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Your scenario of a Volunteer being unable to work in Thailand for free makes it a special circumstance. I didn't suggest that! It was only you who said this happened and I gave you the benefit of doubt of not calling you a liar, and said in YOUR case then this must be a special circumstances.

 

But this time I am not going to give you the benefit of doubt. I have never heard of an Official Volunteer Working coming to a place like Africa, or East Asia, and volunteer his time or skill on some project, and yet having to buy his own airplane tickets, food, and finding his own shelter that he has to pay for. Never! If you can prove that then by all means do so.

 

You call me silly because I discussed how a man helping his wife with the supper dishes is not considered official work, then you tell us a story of a man who can't cook his own breakfast in his own kitchen as this is considered official work. Who is really being silly here? 

 

Look! It is not that complicated and as you make it out to be. The WP Rules are in place to protect Thai Workers, by being turned down a job he could do, but was filled with a Foreign Worker. Every Country has these rules! So these rules are simple also.

 

If you are doing work in Thailand in which you are receiving some sort of payment for that work, either in cash or benefits, then you need a WP. That is it and that is all there is to this! If you want to complicate things with dribble, then you are just confusing the issue because you are confused yourself. That is it and all that is to that as well.    

I told you no story of a man who cant cook his own breakfast, your confused...all the premise you offer are confused as well...and you are being silly 

 

Thailand is not complicated, the DOL will tell you what does and doesnt constitute work and whether something requires a WP or not....you seem hell bent on trying to make things more complicated than they really are, your making up rules and interpreting said rules where no such rules exist 

 

[Peterw42]

Show me a guy that got in trouble for cooking his own breakfast and I will show you a guy that was cooking all the food in his restaurant and got caught, and is trying to bullsh*t his way out of it.

Getting fined for a one off playing a guitar with the band, that would make karaoke an illegal activity.

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Show me a guy that got in trouble for cooking his own breakfast and I will show you a guy that was cooking all the food in his restaurant and got caught, and is trying to bullsh*t his way out of it.

Getting fined for a one off playing a guitar with the band, that would make karaoke an illegal activity.

I believe the guy that owned the restaurant more than I believe an anonymous poster on TVF. Feel free to disbelieve what I write if you please. No skin off my nose.

Next time you are in Pattaya go ask a farang that owns a restaurant but doesn't have a WP if I am right or not. I look forward to your report on such.

[anotheruser]

If you have enough money they leave you alone. The ED visa usually implies you are border line financially. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

20 hours ago, Savilesghost said:

I told you no story of a man who cant cook his own breakfast, your confused...all the premise you offer are confused as well...and you are being silly 

 

Thailand is not complicated, the DOL will tell you what does and doesnt constitute work and whether something requires a WP or not....you seem hell bent on trying to make things more complicated than they really are, your making up rules and interpreting said rules where no such rules exist 

 

What is so confusing for you when I say if your work in Thailand, and get paid some sort of compensation, you need a WP? It was you who complicated things by saying a man can't even cook in his own breakfast in his own kitchen, without a WP, which me, and others, find it very difficult to believe.

 

But don't feel bad as I was not 100% Correct in my statements either. There are time in which you need a WP even when no compensation is involved or being paid. So I was wrong and man enough to admit that now.

 

I remember later a case years ago when someone wanted to Teach English to the village kids for free, as they had no English Teacher. She was refused to be able to do this, and required a WP. If she had the qualifications, I suppose she could have got that, but she didn't. 

 

But it still goes back to the number one rule, which is taken a job away from a Thai who could do that. So even though she was not being paid or given any form of compensation, they ruled her job could be done by a Thai and therefore refused to work for free even. Maybe one of those special circumstances that come every once in awhile that a lot of people don't believe happens.         

[muzmurray]

18 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

What is so confusing for you when I say if your work in Thailand, and get paid some sort of compensation, you need a WP? It was you who complicated things by saying a man can't even cook in his own breakfast in his own kitchen, without a WP, which me, and others, find it very difficult to believe.

 

But don't feel bad as I was not 100% Correct in my statements either. There are time in which you need a WP even when no compensation is involved or being paid. So I was wrong and man enough to admit that now.

 

I remember later a case years ago when someone wanted to Teach English to the village kids for free, as they had no English Teacher. She was refused to be able to do this, and required a WP. If she had the qualifications, I suppose she could have got that, but she didn't. 

 

But it still goes back to the number one rule, which is taken a job away from a Thai who could do that. So even though she was not being paid or given any form of compensation, they ruled her job could be done by a Thai and therefore refused to work for free even. Maybe one of those special circumstances that come every once in awhile that a lot of people don't believe happens.         

 

No, it was refused because she was not working for a registered school or language centre, you can not just freelance teaching legally here. In her case it was absolutely nothing to do with "taking a job from a Thai", that is why they employ native speakers.

[GOLDBUGGY]

7 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

No, it was refused because she was not working for a registered school or language centre, you can not just freelance teaching legally here. In her case it was absolutely nothing to do with "taking a job from a Thai", that is why they employ native speakers.

Yes I do know there are several English Language Teachers here, who have a WP. All I mentioned in this case is that she did not qualify for a WP. I didn't go into details as that was not the point I was trying to make, and the ins and outs in getting a WP. 

 

The point I was trying to get across was that this woman wasn't "Freelancing" and trying to earn extra money on the side, and as you imply. She was offering her services totally for free and without any consideration at all but wasn't allowed to do this without a WP. 

 

I doubt she would have been taking anyone's job away as the reason she wanted to teach English to the village kids is that they did not have an English Teacher at there local school. But having said that, if all the Native English speaking teachers decided to work in Thailand for free, you can be sure there would be more of them. So what would then happen to the paid Thai English Teachers as they have them to?

[muzmurray]

15 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

The point I was trying to get across was that this woman wasn't "Freelancing" and trying to earn extra money on the side, and as you imply. She was offering her services totally for free and without any consideration at all but wasn't allowed to do this without a WP. 

 

I never mentioned anything about money - the fact was that she did not get a work permit because she was not working for anyone, (paid or unpaid)

 

freelance = A freelancer or freelance worker is a term commonly used for a person who is self-employed and is not necessarily committed to a particular employer long-term.

 

No mention of money there either.

 

Also, it is not about taking away someone's job, it is about performing a job that a Thai is unable to, they are totally different things.

[GOLDBUGGY]

4 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

I never mentioned anything about money - the fact was that she did not get a work permit because she was not working for anyone, (paid or unpaid)

 

freelance = A freelancer or freelance worker is a term commonly used for a person who is self-employed and is not necessarily committed to a particular employer long-term.

 

No mention of money there either.

 

Also, it is not about taking away someone's job, it is about performing a job that a Thai is unable to, they are totally different things.

So now you are saying that all these people who own businesses cannot get a WP as they are not working for anyone else? That a Freelancer is self-employed not committed to a particular employer, and then say no mention of money there either.

 

Gosh! How many people do you know who is self-employed or otherwise, and works for free? 

 

You also go on to say that you are not taking away anyone's job as you are performing a job that a Thai is unable to do. I am saying that the whole idea behind a WP System is so that you don't take away a Thais Job. That a WP is issue to people who are doing the job a Thai can't. You continue to argue that point with me. But can't you see we are saying the same thing here!  

[Ace of Pop]

And what job can't I Thai do exactly. I can't think of one


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Savilesghost]

23 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

So now you are saying that all these people who own businesses cannot get a WP as they are not working for anyone else? That a Freelancer is self-employed not committed to a particular employer, and then say no mention of money there either.

 

Gosh! How many people do you know who is self-employed or otherwise, and works for free? 

 

You also go on to say that you are not taking away anyone's job as you are performing a job that a Thai is unable to do. I am saying that the whole idea behind a WP System is so that you don't take away a Thais Job. That a WP is issue to people who are doing the job a Thai can't. You continue to argue that point with me. But can't you see we are saying the same thing here!  

You can own a business and not need a WP

 

you can own and work in your own business and need a WP and one can aquire

WP if one forms a THB 2.0 million capitalised company and employs 4 Thai nationals, dependent on where you apply and if your married to a Thai national the requirements are halved (1million cap + 2 thai nationals ) 

 

Ergo one can " freelance " and be self employed and get a WP in Thailand,

 

i have yet to meet a so called "freelancer" or "self employed" anywhere who is not employed by their own Ltd company or similar entity, as to offset personal tax liabilites, one can do exactly the same in Thailand

[Savilesghost]

On 25/12/2016 at 1:44 PM, GOLDBUGGY said:

What is so confusing for you when I say if your work in Thailand, and get paid some sort of compensation, you need a WP? It was you who complicated things by saying a man can't even cook in his own breakfast in his own kitchen, without a WP, which me, and others, find it very difficult to believe.

 

But don't feel bad as I was not 100% Correct in my statements either. There are time in which you need a WP even when no compensation is involved or being paid. So I was wrong and man enough to admit that now.

 

I remember later a case years ago when someone wanted to Teach English to the village kids for free, as they had no English Teacher. She was refused to be able to do this, and required a WP. If she had the qualifications, I suppose she could have got that, but she didn't. 

 

But it still goes back to the number one rule, which is taken a job away from a Thai who could do that. So even though she was not being paid or given any form of compensation, they ruled her job could be done by a Thai and therefore refused to work for free even. Maybe one of those special circumstances that come every once in awhile that a lot of people don't believe happens.         

You need a work permit in certain cases even when there is no compensation...this is why your confused and let me show you why 

 

Farang X owns a business in Thailand in which he plays no direct role in running the business, but hold "majority" shares.... doesnt require a WP ? Correct

 

Farang X gets paid a dividend from said company, ie "compensation " still doesnt need a WP correct ? 

 

Farang X decides to take an active role in running said business but will draw no salary or other considerations with the exception of taking the dividend in said company..Farang X now needs a WP