Immigration are circling my classroom - what can I do?

[dbrenn]

Just now, gdgbb said:

Sorry, I've got better things to do than re-read your dodgy advice posts. 

 

If offering a bribe to Immigration, in whatever form, what else would he be doing but admitting wrongdoing, particularly as Immigration obviously knows now that he's committing a number of offences if he continues?  

 

But you're wrong, again; at the moment he has closed the business and stopped working and as long as he doesn't start again and get caught, he hasn't even got Immigration to deal with.  He won't get arrested for not operating a business and not working which is what he's apparently chosen to do for the time being.

So why hang around this thread, if you've got better things to do than read its posts?  Of course he could stop working, but as others here have said, where might that leave him and his family financially? Maybe he has to work to support them.

 

Anyway, I hope you have a very good job, one that provides you and your loved ones with sufficient funds for your Christmas turkey.

 

[tomacht8]

For 16 years, he has been running a small auxiliary school together with his Thai wife, in a small town where everyone knows everybody. Great riches have not come together, if the two have not succeeded to legalize their little school.
Sounds to me like a small family business, from hand to mouth.  Since 2 years we have here now the new law and order government.  Unfortunately it hits only the small people. Now the immigration sniffs at him.
Better to close it down, if his Thai wife can not run it alone.
Unfortunately many laws are not family friendly here. A foreigner who is married to a Thai is not simply allowed to help to bring some Food on the table for the common family.  These are simply anti-foreign laws.




 

[dbrenn]

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

For 16 years, he has been running a small auxiliary school together with his Thai wife, in a small town where everyone knows everybody. Great riches have not come together, if the two have not succeeded to legalize their little school.
Sounds to me like a small family business, from hand to mouth.  Since 2 years we have here now the new law and order government.  Unfortunately it hits only the small people. Now the immigration sniffs at him.
Better to close it down, if his Thai wife can not run it alone.
Unfortunately many laws are not family friendly here. A foreigner who is married to a Thai is not simply allowed to help to bring some Food on the table for the common family.  These are simply anti-foreign laws.




 

You are right in that this may be the time to close down, and a decision should be made sooner rather than later - if the New Year present to the informer is refused and no negotiations are possible. If, on the other hand, the present is gratefully received and a discussion commences, then why shut down?

[WhamBam]

2 hours ago, Sir Bogdiver said:

I would have the wife go to immigration by herself and find out what it is they want.

If the had wanted to arrest you they would already have done so.

This looks like a deal can be made.

This is what I would explore too.

The wife would be in a much better position to at least ask the head honcho or the immigration guy who originally asked about the WP what is the solution- if any.

 

That way you would have a much better idea on how to proceed.

[gdgbb]

2 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

So why hang around this thread, if you've got better things to do than read its posts?  Of course he could stop working, but as others here have said, where might that leave him and his family financially? Maybe he has to work to support them.

 

Anyway, I hope you have a very good job, one that provides you and your loved ones with sufficient funds for your Christmas turkey.

 

I said that I had better things to do than to re-read your bad advice posts, don't you read English too well?  A lot of the other posts make sense and contain good advice that steers the OP away from bribing IOs.

 

As others have also said, if he has responsibilities to a family then he should not have been so selfish as to put them at risk by working in an illegal business for the past 16 years with no back up.

 

Thanks for your good wishes, though I suspect that they may be tinged with a little sarcasm.

[gdgbb]

16 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Unfortunately many laws are not family friendly here. A foreigner who is married to a Thai is not simply allowed to help to bring some Food on the table for the common family.  These are simply anti-foreign laws.

 

Absolute nonsense.   Put food on the table legally, and make sure you can do it before you take on the responsibility of a family who will depend on you.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

You are right in that this may be the time to close down, and a decision should be made sooner rather than later - if the New Year present to the informer is refused and no negotiations are possible. If, on the other hand, the present is gratefully received and a discussion commences, then why shut down?

I too would not go that way.
In the medium to long term he becomes extortionable.
I would also avoid any "friendship" with corrupt officials.
If his thai wife can not carry on the business alone, it is better to close the store than get caught up inflagranti.
There are certainly other ways to make money (online teaching or attempting a legal employment at a government school).  For self-protection, I would at least get the documentation for a workpermit and put it ready. Even to get legal advice would make sense. Usually the officials are often more friendly and helpful than some posters here.
 

[tropo]

7 hours ago, doremifasol said:

I would have made the classroom disappear yesterday.

 

Puffff....

 

.......gone.

 

What difference would that have made? They have plenty of photographic evidence by now.

[captnhoy]

As I'm here as a retiree I do not feel so very judgmental of the OP like a business owner who follows the rules would. I also think that we have all lived in an environment where all the rules are rarely followed to a "T". Really, it is part of the culture here I think primarily because there is a lack of enforcement. So here he is guilty like so many are in various ways. As for the idea of getting away with it if he shuts it down now, that is pure fantasy. It is entirely up to the authorities. If they want to nail him they will.

[Davekavo]

Why not move the business from classroom based to online based or as I said before he can get work as a teacher without a degree if he wants to teach. I have taught for two years in Bangkok without any drama while earning 40000B PM, no degree or qualifications. I have since returned to Australia with my Thai wife and enrolled part time in a BSc degree course at Curtin while working full time. I know when I return to Thailand I can gain employment at any private school or Uni and earn 60-70000 pm teaching English.  I did worry while I was teaching that if I was caught I would stand alone and no teaching agency or school would stand by me. This is the only reason I stopped teaching and returned to my country to gain the qualifications I needed to pursue this line of work in the kingdom. It's not worth the aggravation, worry or stress breaking the law in Thailand, for as we all know, farang are second class citizens and always will be.

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

 

Absolute nonsense.   Put food on the table legally, and make sure you can do it before you take on the responsibility of a family who will depend on you.

Obviously, the OP has problems to "legalize" his Business.
Try again to read the OP.

[NickJ]

The trifecta. Your in violation of labour, tax and immigration law.

They seem to be building a strong case against you. With any luck it will only cost you most of the money you ever made from it.

Close it down. Leave for a long vacation.

Then in six months do it right.

Your four employees can be your wife, made and your accountant plus one.

They are not evil they are just doing there job.

[dbrenn]

10 minutes ago, gdgbb said:

I said that I had better things to do than to re-read your bad advice posts, don't you read English too well?  A lot of the other posts make sense and contain good advice that steers the OP away from bribing IOs.

 

As others have also said, if he has responsibilities to a family then he should not have been so selfish as to put them at risk by working in an illegal business for the past 16 years with no back up.

 

Thanks for your good wishes, though I suspect that they may be tinged with a little sarcasm.

 

You're back, and so soon?

 

I think that the last thing that the OP wanted was holier-than-thou lectures on how selfish he's been from perfect people like your good self. He came here to look at his limited options.

 

[dbrenn]

5 minutes ago, Davekavo said:

Why not move the business from classroom based to online based or as I said before he can get work as a teacher without a degree if he wants to teach. I have taught for two years in Bangkok without any drama while earning 40000B PM, no degree or qualifications. I have since returned to Australia with my Thai wife and enrolled part time in a BSc degree course at Curtin while working full time. I know when I return to Thailand I can gain employment at any private school or Uni and earn 60-70000 pm teaching English.  I did worry while I was teaching that if I was caught I would stand alone and no teaching agency or school would stand by me. This is the only reason I stopped teaching and returned to my country to gain the qualifications I needed to pursue this line of work in the kingdom. It's not worth the aggravation, worry or stress breaking the law in Thailand, for as we all know, farang are second class citizens and always will be.

 This is another very good and sensible option that may or may not be open to the OP - depends on whether he can get his wife back to his home country. I took my wife to live in Oz - a rather long and expensive process to get her partner visa. Now we are both Australian citizens, it makes a great second home whenever we need it.

[NickJ]

Until he is arrested.  He still has options.

Perhaps with being legal. He can increase is client base. Advertise. And make way more money.

If his wife opens the business and they have been married for over two years he can also get a work permit.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I'd hardly call teaching the children of policemen and government officials keeping it..."lowkey".

And that's probably the reason why they haven't raided his school and arrested him. Maybe certain officials are looking for some way to keep his operation going because they appreciate his service to the community. It's not like the government officials, immigration, and police in Thailand do everything by the book. 

[dbrenn]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

And that's probably the reason why they haven't raided his school and arrested him. Maybe certain officials are looking for some way to keep his operation going because they appreciate his service to the community. It's not like the government officials, immigration, and police in Thailand do everything by the book. 

Precisely. If the local community likes him, there's a good chance they'll let him stay.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Many of these afternoon and Saturday schools simply serve as babysitting/daycare.  You could probably show movies every day and get a class full.  Serve them popcorn and you might be declared a great teacher.

[cnx355]

Unfortunately there is no visa available for a foreigner running a small English class . This would be the same if you would do it for free !

 

Like most posters said, shut down the class immediately and clear the room you used of any teaching material.

 

Good luck and sorry that the Thai students can not improve their English because of such rules.

 

 

 

 

[jeab1980]

If child come to your house so you look after them untill parent come home you are not working! Just being a good neighbours. If you only speake English to them and they just learn from this you are not working just talking! 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

If child come to your house so you look after them untill parent come home you are not working! Just being a good neighbours. If you only speake English to them and they just learn from this you are not working just talking! 

 

  Yes, but what does that have to do with this thread ?

[jadee]

The OP doesn't say where he is but I'm curious as to how he recognizes the immigration official - it must be a small area with a local office and one official. The fact that he recognizes the guy indicates that he's fairly screwed in terms of options. I'm interested to read about officials actually doing their job, I guess it's the current government we have to thank for that. These past couple of years have been pretty weird having people actually doing their jobs. Big changes in LOS. 

[novo58]

refer to Kenny Rogers............... gotta know when to hold em ....know when to fold em , know when to walk away ....know when to RUN

[jeab1980]

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

  Yes what does that have to do with this thread ?

Easy him not work teaching in a class him just talk to children who come to his house then not working so no problem

we have several CHildrehusbandome to our home after school till there parents finish work they listen to my husaband  Maybe reading a story to them or maybe the read story to him or nMaybe They write story down in thai and english. So him not working

Edited December 23, 2016 by jeab1980

[SpokaneAl]

Easy him not work teaching in a class him just talk to children who come to his house then not working so no problem

we have several CHildrehusbandome to our home after school till there parents finish work they listen to my husaband  Maybe reading a story to them or maybe the read story to him or nMaybe They write story down in thai and english. So him not working

It sounds like he may be making a living and supporting a family on this illegal income that, apparently, he has never, ever paid any taxes on. If that is true it could be difficult keeping food on the table and a roof over his family's heads via babysitting a few children for a few hours each day.

If I was another small business person doing things right and legal, that tax issue would really irritate me.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Davekavo]

"Easy him not work teaching in a class him just talk to children who come to his house then not working so no problem

we have several CHildrehusbandome to our home after school till there parents finish work they listen to my husaband  Maybe reading a story to them or maybe the read story to him or nMaybe They write story down in thai and english. So him not working"

 

 

Maybe stop smoking that shit.....Your dreaming mate.

[itsuptome]

The OP made a poor choice in running this business illegally for up to 16 years. He needs to shut it down immediately and look for advice from a lawyer about how to prepare himself for what could come next. Setting up a legal business, involving a respected Thai friend, leaving the country, or any other number of options may or may not be a good idea at this stage and an Internet forum is the wrong place to ask for advice.

 

16 years is a long time to figure out how to make your business comply with the law, and he was remiss in not doing that.

 

However I disagree with comments where the sentiment is "you deserve this." Thai law is unjust in this regard and injurious to both foreign migrants and the Thai people. The stated aim of the government is to improve the welfare of the Thai people, escape the "middle income trap" and attain developed country status. There are virtually no prosperous and developed nations in which a spouse who's been married to a citizen for 16 years is not provided with a clear and non-arduous path to the full rights and privileges of citizenship, which include an easy process for starting a small business. And there's a reason for this -- hard-working immigrants have been the backbone of growth and development in most of those countries. They got where they are because they didn't have Thailand's laws. Likely most of the posters in this thread, who come largely from developed nations, have at least one immigrant somewhere in their family tree who fits this profile.

 

The Thai people suffer from these laws. They're denied access to the skills that immigrants like the OP can offer. More importantly, they're not challenged by these immigrants to improve their own skills. It's no coincidence that Thai labor laws are so protectionist and the Thai labor force is low-skilled, poorly educated by international standards, and facing challenges adapting to the 21st century economy.

 

Bringing Thai immigration and labor laws more in line with those of developed nations around the world would help Thailand become a developed nation itself. It would improve the welfare of Thais. No one should feel good about the OP's misfortune.

 

[thetruth revealer]

2 minutes ago, itsuptome said:

The OP made a poor choice in running this business illegally for up to 16 years. He needs to shut it down immediately and look for advice from a lawyer about how to prepare himself for what could come next. Setting up a legal business, involving a respected Thai friend, leaving the country, or any other number of options may or may not be a good idea at this stage and an Internet forum is the wrong place to ask for advice.

 

16 years is a long time to figure out how to make your business comply with the law, and he was remiss in not doing that.

 

However I disagree with comments where the sentiment is "you deserve this." Thai law is unjust in this regard and injurious to both foreign migrants and the Thai people. The stated aim of the government is to improve the welfare of the Thai people, escape the "middle income trap" and attain developed country status. There are virtually no prosperous and developed nations in which a spouse who's been married to a citizen for 16 years is not provided with a clear and non-arduous path to the full rights and privileges of citizenship, which include an easy process for starting a small business. And there's a reason for this -- hard-working immigrants have been the backbone of growth and development in most of those countries. They got where they are because they didn't have Thailand's laws. Likely most of the posters in this thread, who come largely from developed nations, have at least one immigrant somewhere in their family tree who fits this profile.

 

The Thai people suffer from these laws. They're denied access to the skills that immigrants like the OP can offer. More importantly, they're not challenged by these immigrants to improve their own skills. It's no coincidence that Thai labor laws are so protectionist and the Thai labor force is low-skilled, poorly educated by international standards, and facing challenges adapting to the 21st century economy.

 

Bringing Thai immigration and labor laws more in line with those of developed nations around the world would help Thailand become a developed nation itself. It would improve the welfare of Thais. No one should feel good about the OP's misfortune.

 

...well spoken and surely many agree with .

[TerrylSky]

Gee, they've busted people for playing a guitar for free... pack it up mate. Have you thought about the consequences?

[dbrenn]

23 minutes ago, itsuptome said:

The OP made a poor choice in running this business illegally for up to 16 years. He needs to shut it down immediately and look for advice from a lawyer about how to prepare himself for what could come next. Setting up a legal business, involving a respected Thai friend, leaving the country, or any other number of options may or may not be a good idea at this stage and an Internet forum is the wrong place to ask for advice.

 

16 years is a long time to figure out how to make your business comply with the law, and he was remiss in not doing that.

 

However I disagree with comments where the sentiment is "you deserve this." Thai law is unjust in this regard and injurious to both foreign migrants and the Thai people. The stated aim of the government is to improve the welfare of the Thai people, escape the "middle income trap" and attain developed country status. There are virtually no prosperous and developed nations in which a spouse who's been married to a citizen for 16 years is not provided with a clear and non-arduous path to the full rights and privileges of citizenship, which include an easy process for starting a small business. And there's a reason for this -- hard-working immigrants have been the backbone of growth and development in most of those countries. They got where they are because they didn't have Thailand's laws. Likely most of the posters in this thread, who come largely from developed nations, have at least one immigrant somewhere in their family tree who fits this profile.

 

The Thai people suffer from these laws. They're denied access to the skills that immigrants like the OP can offer. More importantly, they're not challenged by these immigrants to improve their own skills. It's no coincidence that Thai labor laws are so protectionist and the Thai labor force is low-skilled, poorly educated by international standards, and facing challenges adapting to the 21st century economy.

 

Bringing Thai immigration and labor laws more in line with those of developed nations around the world would help Thailand become a developed nation itself. It would improve the welfare of Thais. No one should feel good about the OP's misfortune.

 

True in that Thai laws are in places unjust, but try taking your wife back home if your funds are limited - you'll find that there is a path to citizenship, but getting your wife on that path requires very serious cash. Generally, it can only be done if you have substantial savings or a well paid job to go to back home. A guy who has been teaching the locals here won't have anything to put on his CV to get that well paid job.

 

Whilst it's good sport to bash Thai laws, there are avenues to Thai citizenship  (I became one) but those avenues may not be open to the OP for similar reasons: lack of resources to regularise his business. He therefore finds himself between a rock and a hard place, hence my suggestion of a negotiated solution to his urgent problem - one that appeals to the just side of the Thai character.

 

After receiving so much conflicting advice, perhaps the OP can let us know what he thinks. I wish him the best of luck .