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Relations between Obama, Netanyahu camps hit rock bottom

By JOSH LEDERMAN

 

HONOLULU (AP) — It took eight years of backbiting and pretending they got along for relations between President Barack Obama's administration and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government to finally hit rock bottom.

 

Though they've clashed bitterly before, mostly notably over Iran, the two governments seemed further apart than ever after a speech Wednesday by Secretary of State John Kerry and last week's United Nations resolution.

 

The key question for the Obama administration, newly willing to air grievances with Israel on live television, is why now?

 

"We cannot, in good conscience, do nothing and say nothing when we see the hope of peace slipping away," Kerry said in a speech that ran more than an hour.

 

Yet in just over three weeks, Obama will no longer be president, Kerry will no longer be secretary of state, and the U.S. will have a new leader under no obligation to embrace any of what Kerry said. President-elect Donald Trump has assured Israel that things will be different after Jan. 20, when he's to be inaugurated, and lamented how the Jewish state was "being treated very, very unfairly."

 

Kerry took pains to voice America's staunch commitment to Israel's security and support for its future, and to detail U.S. complaints about Palestinian leadership and its failure to sufficiently deter violence against Israelis. He laid out a six-point framework for a potential peace deal that it will be up to the next U.S. government to try to enact, if it chooses to do so.

 

The White House has portrayed Obama's decision to break with tradition by abstaining from — rather than vetoing — a U.N. Security Council resolution declaring Israeli settlements illegal as a reaction forced by other countries that brought it up for a vote. Obama didn't seek this out, his aides have argued.

 

Yet the White House has also acknowledged that Obama had long considered the possibility of taking some symbolic step before leaving office to leave his imprint on the debate. For much of the year, his staff pored over options that included a U.N. resolution outlining principles for a peace deal and a presidential speech much like the one Kerry gave Wednesday. Yet there was reluctance to act before the U.S. election, given the way it would have thrust the Israeli-Palestinian issue into the campaign.

 

Kerry acknowledged Trump appears to favor a different approach. Yet, frustrated by years of Israeli actions he deemed counterproductive for peace, Obama appeared to have decided it was better to make his administration's views known while still in office, even if it risked a blockbuster clash with America's closest ally.

 

In his speech, Kerry tore into Israel for settlement-building, accusing Netanyahu of dragging Israel away from democracy. He defended the move to allow the U.N. vote, the spark that set off an extraordinary and deepening diplomatic spat between the U.S. and its closest Mideast ally.

 

"If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic, it cannot be both, and it won't ever really be at peace," Kerry said.

 

Shortly afterward, Netanyahu appeared on camera in Jerusalem and suggested he was done with the Obama administration and ready to deal with Trump. The Israeli leader faulted Kerry for obsessing over settlements while paying mere "lip service" to Palestinian attacks and incitement of violence.

 

"Israelis do not need to be lectured about the importance of peace by foreign leaders," Netanyahu said.

 

Trump wouldn't say whether settlements should be reined in. But he told reporters Israel was being "treated very, very unfairly by a lot of different people."

 

In a nod to Netanyahu's concerns that Obama would take more parting shots, Kerry seemed to rule out the possibility Obama would support more U.N. action or, even more controversially, recognize statehood.

 

A day after the speech, the European Union seemed to rally behind Kerry's message. EU spokeswoman Maja Kocijancic says his speech showed "the international community does not give up on peace in the Middle East."

 

The U.S, the Palestinians and most of the world oppose Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, territories captured by Israel in 1967 and claimed by the Palestinians for an independent state. But Israel's government argues previous construction freezes didn't advance peace and that the settlements — now home to 600,000 Israelis — must be resolved in direct Israelis-Palestinian talks.

 

While Israel's Arab population has citizenship rights, the roughly 2.5 million Palestinians living in the occupied West Bank do not, and most in annexed east Jerusalem have residency rights but not citizenship.

 

Kerry said a future deal would have to ensure secure borders for Israel and a Palestinian state formed in territories Israel captured in 1967, with "mutually agreed, equivalent swaps." He said both countries must fully recognize each other, ensure access to religious sites and relinquish other existing claims. Kerry also called for assistance for Palestinian refugees.

___

Lederman reported from Honolulu. Associated Press writers Josef Federman in Jerusalem and Vivian Salama in Palm Beach, Florida, contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-12-30

[Ulysses G.]

Obama has wanted to double-cross Israel since he got into office - it fits in with his true political ideology - but he was too spineless to take the political consequences. That is why he orchestrated this treachery from behind the scenes a few weeks before leaving office.

He was even too chickenshit to give the speech himself. Maybe American Jews will finally wake up to his duplicity, now that it is too late.

[ezzra]

 

While Obama will soon walk into the fog of history with almost no one missing him gone, Netanyahu will still be a power player for years to come, and possibly

with the help of the new president Trump dismantling Obama's  legacy of a man who said Yes we can, but didn't and couldn't....

 

[Somtamnication]

Using the same logic of the Israeli ambassador to the UN thumping the bible on the table claiming 3000 years of Jewish rights in Palestine, I should be able to claim the same land rights somewhere in Cape Town SA because we supposedly are descendants of the Africans, what, 15000 years ago?

 

Religion and Zionists= idiocy

[AlexRRR]

Dont know why you would want to back Israel when they completely ignore the UN on settlements, the whole Middle East is a shit hole ready to engulf the world into a possible world war, Americans are making enough oil they dont need these shit heads any more, Saudia Arabia is struggling after years of earning mega petrol $.

 

Survival of the fittest, let the Arabs and Jews fight it out alone, its got so complex now no body knows what is right or wrong anymore....Bud out i say.

[craigt3365]

25 minutes ago, ezzra said:

 

While Obama will soon walk into the fog of history with almost no one missing him gone, Netanyahu will still be a power player for years to come, and possibly with the help of the new president Trump dismantling Obama's  legacy of a man who said Yes we can, but didn't and couldn't....

 

Netanyahu being in power for years to come might not be a good thing.  Perhaps somebody else with a desire for real peace would be better? 

 

He sounds like a baby who just had his candy taken away from him. LOL

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, AlexRRR said:

 

Survival of the fittest, let the Arabs and Jews fight it out alone

 

They already have numerous times and the always Jews win.. That is why Egypt and Jordan finally made peace. About time the Palestinians did the same.

[Ulysses G.]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Netanyahu being in power for years to come might not be a good thing.  Perhaps somebody else with a desire for real peace would be better?

 

The leaders of Israel who have made important peace deals n the past were just as hated by the left and the Arabs as Netanyahu. He is the kind of leader who just might surprise everyone. 

 

[AlexRRR]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

They already have numerous times and the always Jews win.. That is why Egypt and Jordan finally made peace. About time the Palestinians did the same.

 

Jews always win because the Americans arm them to the teeth with the best weapons systems going around, if the Americans did an embargo on Israel like they did with Cuba over the lack of action in getting them to negotiate a settlement in time there maybe an outcome.

[boomerangutang]

17 minutes ago, ezzra said:

While Obama will soon walk into the fog of history with almost no one missing him gone, Netanyahu will still be a power player for years to come, and possibly with the help of the new president Trump dismantling Obama's  legacy of a man who

said Yes we can, but didn't and couldn't....

 

       Re; your opinion of Obama, I don't agree at all. If he was allowed to run for a 3rd term, he would have won decidedly against anyone.  Even now, at the end of his 2nd term, whenever he or Michelle go to a public forum, they're cheered like rock stars. He's quite popular.  180 degrees different than 8 yrs ago, when Bush Jr. was leaving office. He left the US with a near-depression, housing foreclosures nationwide, plus two dirty wars that he and Cheney started.

 

         As for the settlements, I actually agree that Israel is right.  They won a war.  Since Adam and Eve, whenever a country has won a war, they have the right to commandeering property.  In not-too-distant past, the victors would have taken a whole lot more territory and enslaved the conquered populace as well.

 

        Imagine if Israel had lost any of the recent wars they won.  The winners (Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon) would have run all the Jews out of Israel and/or imprisoned them.  They would have divvied up the spoils (Israel), and their national boundaries would show the changes.  In one of the wars, Israel booted the Egyptians off Sinai.  If Israelis were as land-grabbing as their Arab neighbors, they would have commandeered Sinai, and there would be Israeli settlements there also. Same for a significant portion of southwest Syria.

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

The leaders of Israel who have made important peace deals n the past were just as hated by the left and the Arabs as Netanyahu. He is the kind of leader who just might surprise everyone. 

 

Agreed.  Those who make peace are not always loved.  But their place is history will be there.  Time for peace in this area.  Can't blame all the problems on the Palestinians.  It's a 2 way street.

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, AlexRRR said:

 

Jews always win because the Americans arm them to the teeth with the best weapons systems going around

 

Complete nonsense. Israel won a number of wars against 5 Arab armies with crap weapons and on their own. The USA did not start helping in a serious way until AFTER their amazing 6 day victory in 1967. They had already been winning wars for 20 years.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[daveAustin]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

They already have numerous times and the always Jews win.. That is why Egypt and Jordan finally made peace. About time the Palestinians did the same.

 

Look who they 'fought' against lol. Take away their nukes and the billions upon billions of handouts from the States and see how they fair against the Iran of today. People have a right to exist, and that includes the Palestinians. It's the Israelis that are preventing peace by this constant poking in the ribs building on that land, which nobody in the rest of the world (bar Trump) agrees with. Regards the op, yes it's late in the day from damp squib Obama, but all this has come about from that UN resolution. Frankly, I don't get Trump's hard-on with Israel. Jews are not special, they are the same as everyone else, but I guess when there's lots of money to be made, you could make anyone your best buddy.

[craigt3365]

17 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

 

Look who they 'fought' against lol. Take away their nukes and the billions upon billions of handouts from the States and see how they fair against the Iran of today. People have a right to exist, and that includes the Palestinians. It's the Israelis that are preventing peace by this constant poking in the ribs building on that land, which nobody in the rest of the world (bar Trump) agrees with. Regards the op, yes it's late in the day from damp squib Obama, but all this has come about from that UN resolution. Frankly, I don't get Trump's hard-on with Israel. Jews are not special, they are the same as everyone else, but I guess when there's lots of money to be made, you could make anyone your best buddy.

Doesn't Trump have relatives that are Jewish?

 

Funny article:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/20/trump-is-headed-to-white-house-did-just-elect-our-first-jewish-president.html

Quote

Donald’s daughter Ivanka has converted to orthodox Judaism. That makes Donald the first president in the history of America with orthodox Jewish grandkids.

 

As we know, Donald only goes after things that help him, his family, or his business partners.

[Ulysses G.]

15 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

 

Look who they 'fought' against lol. 

 

They fought against the Egyptians, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon and won. Not bad for such a tiny country. As far fantasies about taking away their advanced weapons, ain't going to happen. Never again!

[Ulysses G.]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Doesn't Trump have relatives that are Jews?

 

Yep. Yet the lying left kept trying to claim he was "anti Semitic" during the election. Honesty is not their strong suit. 

 

Which president had relatives that were Muslims?

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Yep. Yet the lying left kept trying to claim he was "anti Semitic" during the election. Honesty is not their strong suit. 

 

Which president had relatives that were Muslims?

Honesty is not Trump's strong suit either. 

[ezzra]

There's not another country in this wide  world that it's very existence is at perils any given moment, With Hezbollah in the north with it's formidable and well trained army and 10 of thousand or mid and long range rockets aim at Israel, Hamas in the south with it's own menacing army of terrorists and huge stockpile of missiles and rockets, The threats from ISIOL in the Sini desert to burn Israel to the ground, several splinter terrorist groups to close to the Syrian Israel borders lobbing rockets on villages and towns, The Palestinian  with their own suicide army of adults and youngsters, bombing and knifing their way into mayhem and carnage, Now imagine you living in such environments of death at any day and time, than you'll

have an idea what's like to be an Israeli....

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, AlexRRR said:

 

Jews always win because the Americans arm them to the teeth with the best weapons systems going around, if the Americans did an embargo on Israel like they did with Cuba over the lack of action in getting them to negotiate a settlement in time there maybe an outcome.

 

Wrong.  The first war (since WWII) the Jews fought against Arabs, Israeli fighters just had rifles and were manning a single stone-walled bastion.  Amazingly, they held off repeated attacks against larger numbers and better weapons.  If that small defensive position had fallen, the outcome would have been drastically different.  The State of Israel would have been but a brief footnote in history, and and its people would have been run-off, killed or imprisoned. 

[JHolmesJr]

BO has been busiest in the last month of his tenure than ever before…what's he trying to prove?

 

 

[boomerangutang]

For the record:   Israel develops and manufactures a slew of cutting edge, high quality weapons.  They were even poised to manufacture a kick-ass fighter jet (the Lavi), but US companies didn't want the competition, so the Israeli jet program got quietly scrapped.

 

In comparison:  Thai engineers are still trying to find a way to attach a steel machete blade to a wooden handle.  Hint: epoxy.  

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

11 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

BO has been busiest in the last month of his tenure than ever before…what's he trying to prove?

 

As leader of Israel, he's doing what he can to protect his country and people.  In case you haven't noticed, Israel is surrounded by countries whose leaders keep shouting "Death to Israel!"      Not a comfortable situation.   I admit the Israeli settlement program is controversial, but I can see it from the Israeli perspective also.   If you were Israel's leader, how would you deal with the constant threats to destroy your country and kill its population?

[JHolmesJr]

I did not know BO was the leader of Israel.

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

The leaders of Israel who have made important peace deals n the past were just as hated by the left and the Arabs as Netanyahu. He is the kind of leader who just might surprise everyone. 

 

Yes, but what would Netanyahu be able to offer the Palestinians in a peace deal, no Jerusalem, no return of refugees, and very little land left?

 

I think the Palestinians should, in the words of Trump, simply stay strong, offer passive resistance, keep their smartphones handy, and agitate for equal civil rights in a one state solution.

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

There's not another country in this wide world that it's very existence is at perils any given moment, With Hezbollah in the north with it's formidable and well trained army and 10 of thousand or mid and long range rockets aim at Israel, Hamas in the south with it's own menacing army of terrorists and huge stockpile of missiles and rockets,  The threats from ISIOL in the Sini desert to burn Israel to the ground, several splinter terrorist groups to close to the Syrian Israel borders lobbing rockets on villages and towns, The Palestinian  with their own suicide army of adults and youngsters, bombing and knifing their way into mayhem and carnage,

Now imagine you living in such environments of death at any day and time, than you'll have an idea what's like to be an Israeli....

All the more reason for Israel to make a realistic permanent peace with Palestinians...the only kind worth having.

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Yes, but what would Netanyahu be able to offer the Palestinians in a peace deal, no Jerusalem, no return of refugees, and very little land left?

 

 

Their own country. If they had accepted the UN solution 70 years ago, instead of insisting on wars and violence, they would have had the rest.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Their own country. If they had accepted the UN solution 70 years ago, instead of relying on wars and violence, they would have had the rest.

Well, they didn't, did they. The deal was unfair - we've been there many times. It's history. 20:20 hindsight vision is wonderful counsel.

 

So let's stop punishing the children, grandchildren and great grand children of those Palestinians and look to the future.

Edited December 30, 2016 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Well, they didn't, did they.

 

Nope. That is why they are in the situation they are in now.

[dexterm]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

 

Nope. That is why they are in the situation they are in now.

Please quote my post in its entirety. You are altering the meaning...against forum rules.

[Ulysses G.]

"The deal was unfair".

 

No. It wasn't and I bet it looks damn good now!