Transport Ministry wants to phase out passenger vans in six months

[elgordo38]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Wisanu said that the Transport Ministry’s proposal to use Article 44 of the interim charter to immediately tackle the problem with passenger vans did not solely stem from the horrific crash in Chon Buri on Monday which killed 25 people and injured two others.

Really who is this guy trying to kid!! The whole gist of the problem is on the spot BIB road checks and strict enforcement of the law. Bald tires tow it away no discussion. Overloaded some get of and get alternative transportation and a heavy fine for owner and driver. Breath tests and urine tests for the driver looking for drugs, uppers, downers, sleep depredation drugs. Periodic tests for driver proficiency and knowledge of the law. If the vehicle looks shoddy a safety check. Enforcement enforcement enforcement. Your penalizing 40,000 van owners for what?????

Edited January 7, 2017 by elgordo38

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

I think all busses and vans should not be allowed to leave there destination until two hours after there scheduled arrival, making a late arrival no big deal. Many of these guys are pressured to make time, causing them to push the limits of the law.

 

The reason they're pressed for time is that they get paid by the passenger-trip.

 

More passengers = Mo' money = Overcrowded vehicles

More trips = Mo' money = Kamikaze speed demons who are dog tired by the end of their shift.

 

The only way to reverse that is to make the negative incentives outweigh "mo' money".  That requires enforcement.

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

The reason they're pressed for time is that they get paid by the passenger-trip.

 

More passengers = Mo' money = Overcrowded vehicles

More trips = Mo' money = Kamikaze speed demons who are dog tired by the end of their shift.

 

The only way to reverse that is to make the negative incentives outweigh "mo' money".  That requires enforcement.

Agreed but with what I said he could not leave on another trip until two hours after his scheduled arrival time of the last one, giving him plenty of time for unexpected conditions. Enforcing my plan is another thing, but at some point a viable plan needs to be put in place. I sure don't see any fines on these people around where I live making much difference, but yes I think the fines for speeding buses should be huge. I can just hear the boss saying "get that bus here in two hours and if you get a ticket your fired".

[CaptHaddock]

Lax enforcement seems to be the largest part of the problem of the Thai accident rate.  I wonder at what point it will become feasible to require a GPS tracking device in every vehicle and monitor their speeds at all times.    Since the monitors would know both the location, i.e. speed limit, and the vehicle speed, it could issue tickets by mail automatically.  Too many unpaid tickets would result in impoundment which would be easily accomplished since the location is known.

 

It would be a totalitarian approach and would eliminate privacy, but could save lives without having to wait for effective reform of the police.

Edited January 7, 2017 by CaptHaddock

[Fookhaht]

What about banning people travelling in the back of open top pick ups/truckson  motorways, wasn't the accident the other day between a mini van and a pick up/truck ?

Now you're touching upon a sacred cow of transportation in Southeast Asia. Notice no one has responded to your suggestion. Totally out of the question. They would rather give up eating rice.


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[farcanell]

15 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I do not blame you for saying this, nobody knows more than me just how bad Thai drivers are, I would even go as far as saying at least 80% of them are not fit to be on the road, their mentality and road sense is dreadful. But if I said I was wary of going on any of the minivans from my village to Bangkok, I would not be being truthful, it could be that the boss gives them a good bonus for being accident free, though that would only be guessing.

 

Theres one company down here that I believe work to a higher standard... the boss lady often goes along... sometimes two drivers... often a driver switch at the border in Malaysia ( enroute to Penang). Relatively safe with the main danger coming from the other minivans.

[Minnehaha]

it will happen ... if there are company(s) that can get the vans ready in time and the contracts ... and I will take a wild guess and say - those companies knew about this announcement, and are in bed with the govt agency making the decisions as well as the enforcers, prob police but likely military as well.

 

if it does not happen ... then those companies that own the current vans and contracts are powerful enough to road block their losses

or ... they are the same companies as those in paragraph 1 

[natway09]

This is a typical overkill reaction because they refuse to  & (or)  cannot fix  the root of the problems which are manifested

in bribery & extortion to start with.

Warrant of Fitness for every public service vehicle every 6 months ( no brown envelopes)

Speed restrict all buses (mini or otherwise) & strict enforcement (A major problem of policing)

Any driver found with excessive alcohol in their system banned for life.

A gun does not kill , it is the person pulling the trigger

[jesimps]

18 hours ago, z42 said:

Jesus weapt why will these fools continue to deliberately not see the enormous elephant in the room that is the atrocious driving standard adopted by 90%+ of the drivers?

I expect stupidity as par for the course. But this ridiculous tripe being wheeled out lately is really tiresome especially when the numbers of deaths and injured per annum using them is likely comparable to that of a warzone.

 

I'd have more respect for these unelected buffoons if they just said outright that no changes will be made as anything tried is doomed to failure from the start. 

It's been said a lot here but you really can't fix stupid however hard you try

 

This while the present "Govt" is all powerful with no opposition to make things difficult AND article 44. My goodness, what a difference they could make if they had a mind to. Problem is, they don't have a mind between them.

 

[smotherb]

19 hours ago, DNPBC0 said:

A major problem with passenger vans is the same as the problem with  buses - driver fatigue. What is being done to remedy this?

 

Driver fatigue or driver stupidity and aggressiveness? Until they improve their driving accidents will still happen--what is Thailand, number 2 or something, in the world for traffic deaths.

[farcanell]

30 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Driver fatigue or driver stupidity and aggressiveness? Until they improve their driving accidents will still happen--what is Thailand, number 2 or something, in the world for traffic deaths.

 

Dependant on the individual study,I think.

 

i have seen it at number one... so they are seriously competitive in this matter

[kevc]

Its like seeing a hole in the ground and covering it with some wood, don't solve the problem just make it look better.

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[kowpot]

Blaming the vans, but not the drivers.

 Is like blaming the gun, but not the shooter.

[KenKadz]

Phasing out Passenger Vans i.e. taking away people's work, is not the answer.

The answer is:

Education and Training - Testing

Regulation and Enforcement by all agencies (Transport Ministry, Police)

Control by all agencies (vehicle safety inspections, driver logs/sleep hours, etc.)

 

This is not brain surgery, neighboring countries have successful programs in place.

Agencies would have to get of their backsides and do something proactive.

Aw shit, this is not Thainess!

[473geo]

So much venting on this thread, rather a kin to the knee jerk reaction, no doubt promoted rapidly due to the sad 25 deaths recently

 

Improve the railway system, so much talk too little action, new links and lines in Bangkok moving rapidly ahead, rural transit improvement stalled regarding railways.

 

Consider carefully the impact of this action to remove the vans, local knowledge and at the door pick up in the rural areas, some back roads unknown to all but locals to collect customers, replace this service with what? Larger vehicles could not deliver this service.

 

Do not condemn the careful drivers with generalisation, let the people decide, deploy the solution alongside the vans, if the solution provided is indeed an improvement on safety and service then we will see a decline in the van services and a migration to the new service, or perhaps improvement in the van driving to retain and maintain the customer base.

 

My friends and relatives have driven these vans for years without serious accidents, why attempt to take away their livelihood when they are not guilty of misdemeanor. 45000 drivers, probably a couple of million family and friends who would continue to trust the majority these drivers above a stranger.

 

Some here ask for Thai reaction, my family will not travel on large buses over night, I tell them to wear seatbelts and if possible sit between the axles, they do, they now travel almost exclusively on single decker coaches and pay additional fare for premium service. The family will however when required confidently travel with my brother in law in the van he drives for a living.

 

A huge task taken on by the government - to improve the safety of passengers, perhaps rather than ban the vans a little more thought required regarding drivers, passenger safety and implementation.

 

 

[fruitman]

It's just ridiculous to travel 6-800 km in a bus anyway.

 

Hurry up with real trains which one can take overnight for a lower price than a minivan charges.

[DrPhibes]

Just arrived in Mae Sai from Chiang Mai to cross over and back for my 90 day multi non-O (me driving).  Very quick and efficient on crossing over into Myanmar and back.  However, there had to be 12 passenger vans (at least) that endangered us and their passengers along the way.  It was truely crazy how they would try to pass in opposing traffic, blind curve, up hill.  Just nuts!  It is the drivers, not the vans that are the problem to be dealt with.

[Kawapete]

What really is missing is an updated train service to do the long haul instead of travelling long distance in these van's

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[sioux2012]

that was fast.... 

just hours ago it was 15,000 ...

Is someone making up figures here and telling big fat boo boos?

[ChakaKhan]

On 1/5/2017 at 9:58 PM, NanLaew said:

 

The Thai culture is not to take or be seen to take advice that is not home-grown regardless of how imminently sensible and logical it is. By the same token, they cannot be seen to publicly agree with such imminently sensible and logical but quintessentially non-Thai reasoning in front of fellow Thais. It is exactly the same in Vietnam but the cuisine is better here.

So is it the essence of FACE..which in my opinion will never allow thai culture to move forward?..seems it would be so much better without the concept of FACE.

and yes i agree about the food...is why i keep returning.....

[selftaopath]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:46 AM, samsensam said:

 

there is a blatant refusal to acknowledge the root causes of the large number of RTAs is puzzling. do the MOT really not understand the problem? or is the amount of work required to solve the problem too much like hard work?

 

even more puzzling, given the huge number of people in the country who must have been affected by the madness on the roads, is the lack of any campaign, protest or demands from the people, the newspapers, the media that the government do something.

 

is it laziness, ignorance, cultural reluctance to accepting responsibility or make decisions, religious belief in reincarnation that means death is not the end...? i guess you have to be thai to understand.

 

it is a great sadness that hangs over the country and is ignored by the country.

One item worth mentioning is Thai people seem to have "given up" or accepted that the good of the nation's people don't matter; nothing can be done because the average Thai has no one to turn to for help/assistance. Who can be contacted to do ANYTHING?

[ableguy]

Count the mini vans come June or July , more government hot air .

[nong38]

Whatever they decide to use fit seat belts, they must be worn and they must be in working order. Police should be at all bus station and check buses for safety every day, you cannot rely on the operators it would seem, brakes and tyres are the obvious starters, any defects found hit the operators hard. Fit speed regulators so they cannot exceed 100kph its enough.

[Artisi]

18 hours ago, 473geo said:

So much venting on this thread, rather a kin to the knee jerk reaction, no doubt promoted rapidly due to the sad 25 deaths recently

 

Improve the railway system, so much talk too little action, new links and lines in Bangkok moving rapidly ahead, rural transit improvement stalled regarding railways.

 

Consider carefully the impact of this action to remove the vans, local knowledge and at the door pick up in the rural areas, some back roads unknown to all but locals to collect customers, replace this service with what? Larger vehicles could not deliver this service.

 

Do not condemn the careful drivers with generalisation, let the people decide, deploy the solution alongside the vans, if the solution provided is indeed an improvement on safety and service then we will see a decline in the van services and a migration to the new service, or perhaps improvement in the van driving to retain and maintain the customer base.

 

My friends and relatives have driven these vans for years without serious accidents, why attempt to take away their livelihood when they are not guilty of misdemeanor. 45000 drivers, probably a couple of million family and friends who would continue to trust the majority these drivers above a stranger.

 

Some here ask for Thai reaction, my family will not travel on large buses over night, I tell them to wear seatbelts and if possible sit between the axles, they do, they now travel almost exclusively on single decker coaches and pay additional fare for premium service. The family will however when required confidently travel with my brother in law in the van he drives for a living.

 

A huge task taken on by the government - to improve the safety of passengers, perhaps rather than ban the vans a little more thought required regarding drivers, passenger safety and implementation.

 

 

You seem to have missed the whole point on the removal of all vans (it won't happen anyway) - the powers that be are fully aware that Thai drivers are perfect and it is the vans causing all the problems - remove the vans and the problem goes away - see very simple logic (Thai style )

[Alan Deer]

Sorry just tagging on the end of this thread.......what will replace the minivans? They are able to reach destinations that buses would find uneconomical - so can we assume that the powrs that be have an alternative solution waiting in the wings....or is this just a knee-jerk reaction?

[Alan Deer]

one minor footnote - I see a few comments about seat belts - they are only as good as their anchorage fitting and design which means when fitted as an afterthought in a vehicle not designed for them, they are usually pretty useless.

[CGW]

44 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Whatever they decide to use fit seat belts, they must be worn and they must be in working order. Police should be at all bus station and check buses for safety every day, you cannot rely on the operators it would seem, brakes and tyres are the obvious starters, any defects found hit the operators hard. Fit speed regulators so they cannot exceed 100kph its enough.

 

Realistically! you have to take the Police out off any action that requires safe practice, we are not in the "West" they have not and will not enforce any standards unless there is money in it for them, until this country gets a functional Police force preventable accidents will continue at the alarming rate!

[CGW]

4 minutes ago, Alan Deer said:

one minor footnote - I see a few comments about seat belts - they are only as good as their anchorage fitting and design which means when fitted as an afterthought in a vehicle not designed for them, they are usually pretty useless.

All vehicles in this day & age are designed with seat belt anchorage points, the "afterthought" is the decision Not to fit them!

[Alan Deer]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

All vehicles in this day & age are designed with seat belt anchorage points, the "afterthought" is the decision Not to fit them!

Sadly not the case - the buses you see are certainly not fitted with proper anchorage points - they are coach built in Thailand to a level of fantasy. The minibuses may have points when originally designed in Japan but sadly they have multiple changes to the seating arrangements and the seat-belt fittings are often compromised by this. what looks like a solid fitting from above on closer inspection may turn out to be fitted onto a ply wood floor or an unreinforced piece of the bodywork.

seat belts in Thailand are often fitted as an after thought and seldom worn by passengers ....or drivers come to that.