Agent or DIY ? - Retirement visa whinge

[TerryLH]

"The method of the agent was very dubious from the very beginning,  because you normally do not receive a Non Imm-O Visa for retirement purpose in a neighboring country nor from an agent inside Thailand, but only from a honorary consulate or the embassy of Thailand in your home country, together with a police clearance and a medical certificate."

 

That's not correct.  You're talking about a O-A Visa, not an O Visa.

[kurd]

Doing it myself without these agents for 15 years.No hassle no drama 1,900 baht

[steven100]

Coming here 17 yrs,  15 million baht.

 

Geeze. ,   you'd think one would know what's needed by now.

 

Stop your damn whinging and just accept it.

[TheFishman1]

Yep one year agent charged me 7000 baht now I do it myself very easyTIT

[xerostar]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

Coming here 17 yrs,  15 million baht.

 

Geeze. ,   you'd think one would know what's needed by now.

 

Stop your damn whinging and just accept it.

 

Feel better now do you, after you little whinge about me?

My headline admits I am whinging. So you need not have read any further!

Do I sound like I am NOT over it ?

Well, I can tell you honestly, I won't be throwing myself off a tall building just yet. 

By writing about my experience I'm helping others who could easily fall into the same trap.

Is that not reason enough for you ?

In case you do not know, this is a forum, where members try to help each other by exchanging experiences and ideas.

 

 

3 hours ago, kurd said:

Doing it myself without these agents for 15 years.No hassle no drama 1,900 baht

 

Yes I started with my own application 17 years ago and received a retirement visa like you, no problems.

 

Circumstances changed, I had to return to work in Oz so the visa expired while I was away for long periods.
For a number of years I depended on the "visa upon arrival" because I could not afford to be away from my practice for more than 2 or 3 weeks anyway. I depended on a short trip twice a year.

 

Seeing a chance to stay longer, without returning to Oz, seemed like a good idea at the time ..
I fell into the trap when I had time, to stay for 3 months (I had a locum taking care of the practice).  

I paid the cash and got the retirement visa - sweet ! (so I thought ..)

I just wanted to stay longer than 30 days!! 

As it turned out it was the best holiday I've had in 10 years !!
I called it "long service leave- funded by Visa card" 
 

You may ask why I did not bring my family to Oz ? 
Well I did, for the first 5 years. 
I did all DIY applications for Oz permanent residence (including those of my 2 step sons) which were successful as expected.
but the wife got home-sick as Thai women do, so I let her go with my 3 year old daughter and her step sons in 2011. 
I have tried since then to sell my practice so I could retire properly but many factors worked against me. 
As the economy has slowly ground to a halt over the past few years, selling any business in Oz has been impossible without losing most of the original investment (which in my case was about $300,000 - to set up the practice).

That was just one factor in a list which I won't go into now, for fear I may bore my readers to death.

 

[glegolo]

7 hours ago, xerostar said:

As the economy has slowly ground to a halt over the past few years, selling any business in Oz has been impossible without losing most of the original investment (which in my case was about $300,000 - to set up the practice).

That was just one factor in a list which I won't go into now, for fear I may bore my readers to death.

 

Watch up so you not ends up like many others... just being a prison-guard for your money... THAT IS NO LIFE TO LIVE...

 

Take care of the remainer of your PRESENT LIFE and try to live it..

 

Glegolo

Edited January 6, 2017 by glegolo

[meatboy]

14 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I suppose some people really need to use an agent,all the information

has been posted on this forum umpteen times,it's definitely not rocket

science,with just a little bit of effort he could have saved himself 46K 

Thb, is that what agents charge down in Bangkok ? or has he been

scammed.    30K the first time,and 16K the 2nd,and been told he does not

need to do anything for 12 months,what about 90 day reporting 

regards Worgeordie

yes WG the less explainations the agent tells him means more money to grease the imm.officer hands with.

[Mansell]

13 hours ago, steven100 said:

Coming here 17 yrs,  15 million baht.

 

Geeze. ,   you'd think one would know what's needed by now.

 

Stop your damn whinging and just accept it.

Mister Compassion you must have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning, or maybe your girlfriend ran off with a neighbor. Either way just let the guy talk about his issue. It is people like you that give people pause about asking anything on here, if you have nothing nice or constructive to say......<deleted> off.

my question is how did the IO know that he had used an agent before? Is there some stamp or mark in the passport, or on the previous application?

[Munotlaw]

.

Chiang Mai Immigration have found it is a lucrative form of income expect the practice to be countrywide.

 

This topic proofs that Immigration accepts this kind of visa or visa extension. You have to find the right agent who will guide you through the 90 days regulation and  the correct address requirement; this to a fair price. In Pattaya the most popular agents are offering this full service. Cannot name here, but easy to find on the net.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, captnhoy said:

 

Same as Ranong. I have done my own extension of stay for 9 years. I for one have some empathy for the OP. It is so easy for the know-it-alls on here to criticize one who is learning it the hard way. I also would not have returned to the agent. The office wants the bribe to keep coming - sure. Too bad - it is not a life sentence. Just tell him politely - No sir, I cannot, what it the problem with my papers?  I wish Ranong had all the conveniences of BKK. But not the crowds.

 

Mae Sot weren't looking for backhanders and neither does Nakhon Sawan. However they were small offices with few crowds. I haven't dealt with Khampaeng Phet office yet but I have a 90 day report coming up in a few days.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Munotlaw said:

.

Chiang Mai Immigration have found it is a lucrative form of income expect the practice to be countrywide.

 

This topic proofs that Immigration accepts this kind of visa or visa extension. You have to find the right agent who will guide you through the 90 days regulation and  the correct address requirement; this to a fair price. In Pattaya the most popular agents are offering this full service. Cannot name here, but easy to find on the net.

 

Actually it proves just the opposite. Not everybody goes to an Immigration office where it is expected that you use an agent and not everybody even needs an agent. From this and other threads I have read over the past few years it seems to me that to save hassle at Immigration in the popular places like Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok, perhaps Chiang Mai an agent is useful and helpful but the price and quality varies. Up country and smaller, less busy offices you can do the extension yourself easily.

 

I would suggest that people who are new to the system or unsure should go to their Immigration office and politely ask what documentation is required, how many copies etc at least a couple of months before the renewal date and then apply at least 3 weeks before the expiry date to give some slack in case they have a problem.

 

Even when I used to go to Suan Phlu back in the dark ages I never used an agent. Perhaps I should have done because the parking facilities there were abysmal.

[Munotlaw]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Actually it proves just the opposite. Not everybody goes to an Immigration office where it is expected that you use an agent and not everybody even needs an agent. From this and other threads I have read over the past few years it seems to me that to save hassle at Immigration in the popular places like Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok, perhaps Chiang Mai an agent is useful and helpful but the price and quality varies. Up country and smaller, less busy offices you can do the extension yourself easily.

 

I would suggest that people who are new to the system or unsure should go to their Immigration office and politely ask what documentation is required, how many copies etc at least a couple of months before the renewal date and then apply at least 3 weeks before the expiry date to give some slack in case they have a problem.

 

Even when I used to go to Suan Phlu back in the dark ages I never used an agent. Perhaps I should have done because the parking facilities there were abysmal.

 

We speak here from people who need "financial assistance" from the agent! In such a case also the most friendly immigration officer can be of any help, except he could recommand an agent.

Munotlaw

Edited January 7, 2017 by Munotlaw

[phutoie2]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Actually it proves just the opposite. Not everybody goes to an Immigration office where it is expected that you use an agent and not everybody even needs an agent. From this and other threads I have read over the past few years it seems to me that to save hassle at Immigration in the popular places like Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok, perhaps Chiang Mai an agent is useful and helpful but the price and quality varies. Up country and smaller, less busy offices you can do the extension yourself easily.

 

I would suggest that people who are new to the system or unsure should go to their Immigration office and politely ask what documentation is required, how many copies etc at least a couple of months before the renewal date and then apply at least 3 weeks before the expiry date to give some slack in case they have a problem.

 

Even when I used to go to Suan Phlu back in the dark ages I never used an agent. Perhaps I should have done because the parking facilities there were abysmal.

 

You and others are not seeing the big picture about agents.  One particular reason is the financial requirements for retirement extensions. Certain folk refuse to keep 800k THB here or just have not got sufficient monthly incomes/pensions,  and please no lectures from rural la la land about you should not be here if you haven't the dosh. Some have to live in the real world.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, phutoie2 said:

 

<snip>  and please no lectures from rural la la land about you should not be here if you haven't the dosh. Some have to live in the real world.

If you cannot or don't want to meet the rather minimal income/deposit requirements for a Thai retirement extension post-age 50 then you may have more problems in this life than where you should be here or anywhere else.

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, NancyL said:

That's why they're telling you to go back to your original agent, who will probably go back to whatever corrupt IO he used initially.

 

He would find himself completely up the Swanee if said officer had since been "moved to an inactive post" (or whatever fate awaits bent IO's once their nefarious activities had come to light)!

 

But he would, of course, only have himself to blame in such an eventuality.

Edited January 7, 2017 by OJAS

[zoza]

a while ago a few lads got caught up in a dispute between an agent and his IO having a fall

out, and a few passports were seized and the agent disappeared as well.

a few days later we were discussing this scenario when a bloke popped up with a statement

about agents and how he would never use one, as it happened I knew he was going to see

an agent the next day, and asked him if he could clarify his statement considering this ?

and he said yeh ok but he is English? if people are ignorant of how some agents work it is

easy to suppose that everything they do is above board as a lot advertise no money needed

in news papers on the internet ect....so I can see how new expats can jump to the wrong conclusion.....even people who have been coming here years get it wrong.  

[billd766]

6 hours ago, phutoie2 said:

 

You and others are not seeing the big picture about agents.  One particular reason is the financial requirements for retirement extensions. Certain folk refuse to keep 800k THB here or just have not got sufficient monthly incomes/pensions,  and please no lectures from rural la la land about you should not be here if you haven't the dosh. Some have to live in the real world.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but I and many others DO live in the real world where I have to live within my income and savings. It isn't a lecture, it IS real life.

 

I chose many years ago to live in Thailand and I have a Thai wife and a Thai son. It is MY responsibility to take care of them and support them.

 

Now if I don't have the money to become a legal alien, which is 40,000 thb a month as a married man or 65,000 as a retired person, how can I support my wife and son to  a reasonable standard as well as myself, then why should I expect someone to break the law on my behalf to allow me to stay in  their country.

 

If I want to take my Thai wife to live in the UK I would need to be able to show the Immigration staff in the UK that I earn in excess of 820,000 thb before I even start the process to get her there where there are NO friendly agents of Immigration people to "help" me pass the financial requirements, which would be breaking the law.

 

You on the other hand expect the laws to be bent or broken so that people can stay in Thailand. What you are describing is corruption and nothing else.

 

If people don't have the money for the visa then what will they do if they fall ill or are involved in a road accident How will they be able to pay the bill?

 

I repeat that this is NOT a lecture, it is reality.

[dentonian]

11 hours ago, Mansell said:

my question is how did the IO know that he had used an agent before? Is there some stamp or mark in the passport, or on the previous application?

 

(Fictitious date of 1st March used as an example)

Because the normal process would be obtain the Non Imm O Visa first, issued 1/3/16.

Then on 1/5/16 a return for the extension, after 2 months of funds being seasoned and within the last 30 days of the Visa expiring.

Extension issued on 1/5/16, extension of stay permitted until 1/6/17.

 

When agents complete the process. One visit.

Non Imm O Visa issued 1/3/16.

Extension issued 2/3/16, extension of stay permitted until 1/6/17.

 

It's obvious to any other IO that both the Visa and extension were issued almost simultaneously, without the required 2 month period for funds to be seasoned. I've seen two examples and both were issued in the same manner.

One would have thought that for an IO to cover his tracks when he signs them off, would at least have the common sense to date the issue of the extension in advance, as 1/5/16.

Few twirls of the rubber stamp and he can set any date he so wishes.............but alas no!

[laislica]

3 hours ago, dentonian said:

15 hours ago, Mansell said:

my question is how did the IO know that he had used an agent before? Is there some stamp or mark in the passport, or on the previous application?

 

(Fictitious date of 1st March used as an example)

Because the normal process would be obtain the Non Imm O Visa first, issued 1/3/16.

Then on 1/5/16 a return for the extension, after 2 months of funds being seasoned and within the last 30 days of the Visa expiring.

Extension issued on 1/5/16, extension of stay permitted until 1/6/17.

 

When agents complete the process. One visit.

Non Imm O Visa issued 1/3/16.

Extension issued 2/3/16, extension of stay permitted until 1/6/17.

 

It's obvious to any other IO that both the Visa and extension were issued almost simultaneously, without the required 2 month period for funds to be seasoned. I've seen two examples and both were issued in the same manner.

One would have thought that for an IO to cover his tracks when he signs them off, would at least have the common sense to date the issue of the extension in advance, as 1/5/16.

Few twirls of the rubber stamp and he can set any date he so wishes.............but alas no!

 

 

Yes, if the IO had used his common there would have been no problems in the future.

As they say: It's easy when you know how!

 

As for the op using an agent - why not?
There but for the Grace of Dog go I!

I was lucky, when I first came to Thailand it was on a 30 day waiver and a friend helped me get a 90 day non Imm O visa at Chiand Mai, open a bank account and get the retirement extension.

He had lived for many years in Thailand and new all the ropes. He helped me get my 1 year driving licenses and then the five year ones.

Without his help, I guess I could also have been unfortunate like the OP and choose the wrong agent.

They are not all bad! Some do a proper job and the OP was unlucky?

 

As for the seasoning period. It is quite possible for someone to simply keep 800,000Baht (or more) in their bank year on year.

As an insurance for something going wrong, accident or ill health.

Therefore, the funds would always have been seasoned, though I'm not saying that they were in this case, just that they could have been.

 

Thanks for sharing OP and sorry to hear all the troubles you ran into.

Better luck next time with your DIY job which you will do in person but always check your stamps before you leave the Imm Office, they can and do make mistakes.

This means that you need to know what the stamps should say.

(And you thought you were just off for an extended holiday without knowing there was a train wreck about to happen.....)

In a nut shell, if you enter Thailand with a 90 day Non Imm O visa, you get a 30 day window before it expires to apply for your extension and the window will be open the same 30 days every year.

(Note that some Imm Offices allow you a 45 day window but not all.) This means that you need to choose an arrival date for your first application (in 60 days or so), such that you will always be in Thailand for the 30 day renewal window.

I usually apply for a single re-entry permit at the time I get the retirement extension (1,000 Baht), then I can leave and return during the validity of my permitted to stay until date.

Failure to have a re-entry permit will cause your permitted to enter date to be cancelled and you will have to start over with a new 90 day Non Imm O visa etc.

If you want to border hop for multiple visits to other countries. there is the multi re-entry permit at 3,800 Baht so you need to be making four or more border hops to make that worth while.

We normally spend 6 months+ in Spain and the rest in Thailand so a single re-entry permit does us nicely.

 

TM 30, as has been explained, if you live in a Thai's house or condo, a TM 30 must be supplied, within 24 hours of arrival, the first time you arrive in Thailand for that year.

If you stay in an Hotel or Guest House then they will notify their local Imm Office that you are staying there and there is nothing for you to do.

If you change address, supply a TM 28 to register the new address. You only ever do this for a change of permanent address, it's free.

Then a TM30 with that address once per year after that, it's free.

Well this is what my local Imm Office wants/expects so best to ask your local office what they want, then there should be no confusion.

90 day reporting must be done if you stay in country 90 or more days.

Some lucky people can do it online, others by post or in person.

You get to do the report 15 days before and up to 7 days after, it's free.

 

A few possibly useful links for you.

The link to the online 90 day report.
Note that you must use IE or an IE tab for Firefox or Chrome.
From here you can also download a user guide:-
https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do

Link to download all immigration forms from the Government site:-
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

Thai Immigration Application Forms in .doc format from within the Thai Visa Forum.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/files/category/6-thai-immigration-application-forms/

 

On the plus side, I find that the Thai Immigration services are a lot easier and nicer to use than those in the UK!

But that's another story. Glad you could get your family to Aus.

 

 

 

[xerostar]

21 hours ago, glegolo said:

Watch up so you not ends up like many others... just being a prison-guard for your money... THAT IS NO LIFE TO LIVE...

 

Take care of the remainer of your PRESENT LIFE and try to live it..

 

Glegolo

 

Thank you Glegolo, your advice is timely and appreciated.

People like me often overlook the "big picture" until it's too late ..

 

I have been the prison guard for the past 5 years and the prisoner's health has deteriorated a lot.

I have clung to the hope that the prisoner will get a pardon ... but it never happens ..

It's possible the prisoner's life may be worthless if he doesn't get parole very soon..

 

Now I cling to the hope I can scrape enough together to pay the creditors.

After that, all I need is enough cash to pay the taxi to the airport and my one-way airfare to Bangkok.

Real LIFE can then begin again ..(albeit without a silver spoon).

At least I can escape with my health, which I am guarding closely

I will adjust to living on a small amount of money and be thankful I can survive just as long as any millionaire.

 

 

[xerostar]

2 hours ago, laislica said:

 

 

Yes, if the IO had used his common there would have been no problems in the future.

As they say: It's easy when you know how!

 

As for the op using an agent - why not?
There but for the Grace of Dog go I!

I was lucky, when I first came to Thailand it was on a 30 day waiver and a friend helped me get a 90 day non Imm O visa at Chiand Mai, open a bank account and get the retirement extension.

He had lived for many years in Thailand and new all the ropes. He helped me get my 1 year driving licenses and then the five year ones.

Without his help, I guess I could also have been unfortunate like the OP and choose the wrong agent.

They are not all bad! Some do a proper job and the OP was unlucky?

 

As for the seasoning period. It is quite possible for someone to simply keep 800,000Baht (or more) in their bank year on year.

As an insurance for something going wrong, accident or ill health.

Therefore, the funds would always have been seasoned, though I'm not saying that they were in this case, just that they could have been.

 

Thanks for sharing OP and sorry to hear all the troubles you ran into.

Better luck next time with your DIY job which you will do in person but always check your stamps before you leave the Imm Office, they can and do make mistakes.

This means that you need to know what the stamps should say.

(And you thought you were just off for an extended holiday without knowing there was a train wreck about to happen.....)

In a nut shell, if you enter Thailand with a 90 day Non Imm O visa, you get a 30 day window before it expires to apply for your extension and the window will be open the same 30 days every year.

(Note that some Imm Offices allow you a 45 day window but not all.) This means that you need to choose an arrival date for your first application (in 60 days or so), such that you will always be in Thailand for the 30 day renewal window.

I usually apply for a single re-entry permit at the time I get the retirement extension (1,000 Baht), then I can leave and return during the validity of my permitted to stay until date.

Failure to have a re-entry permit will cause your permitted to enter date to be cancelled and you will have to start over with a new 90 day Non Imm O visa etc.

If you want to border hop for multiple visits to other countries. there is the multi re-entry permit at 3,800 Baht so you need to be making four or more border hops to make that worth while.

We normally spend 6 months+ in Spain and the rest in Thailand so a single re-entry permit does us nicely.

 

TM 30, as has been explained, if you live in a Thai's house or condo, a TM 30 must be supplied, within 24 hours of arrival, the first time you arrive in Thailand for that year.

If you stay in an Hotel or Guest House then they will notify their local Imm Office that you are staying there and there is nothing for you to do.

If you change address, supply a TM 28 to register the new address. You only ever do this for a change of permanent address, it's free.

Then a TM30 with that address once per year after that, it's free.

Well this is what my local Imm Office wants/expects so best to ask your local office what they want, then there should be no confusion.

90 day reporting must be done if you stay in country 90 or more days.

Some lucky people can do it online, others by post or in person.

You get to do the report 15 days before and up to 7 days after, it's free.

 

A few possibly useful links for you.

The link to the online 90 day report.
Note that you must use IE or an IE tab for Firefox or Chrome.
From here you can also download a user guide:-
https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do

Link to download all immigration forms from the Government site:-
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

Thai Immigration Application Forms in .doc format from within the Thai Visa Forum.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/files/category/6-thai-immigration-application-forms/

 

On the plus side, I find that the Thai Immigration services are a lot easier and nicer to use than those in the UK!

But that's another story. Glad you could get your family to Aus.

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much laislica (and others) for your advice.

I said to my friends recently:

  "If you want to know how to make your life more complicated then just ask me, I'm an expert!". 

I'm  thankful there are some people with compassion, ready to listen and empathize, rather than to criticize.

People like myself (and others in difficult situations) really appreciate that hand on our shoulder and a word of encouragement.

 

 

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, xerostar said:

 

Thank you Glegolo, your advice is timely and appreciated.

People like me often overlook the "big picture" until it's too late ..

 

I have been the prison guard for the past 5 years and the prisoner's health has deteriorated a lot.

I have clung to the hope that the prisoner will get a pardon ... but it never happens ..

It's possible the prisoner's life may be worthless if he doesn't get parole very soon..

 

Now I cling to the hope I can scrape enough together to pay the creditors.

After that, all I need is enough cash to pay the taxi to the airport and my one-way airfare to Bangkok.

Real LIFE can then begin again ..(albeit without a silver spoon).

At least I can escape with my health, which I am guarding closely

I will adjust to living on a small amount of money and be thankful I can survive just as long as any millionaire.

 

 

 

Yes if it is right for you.. then escape and enjoy your own life.. in the end that is what we all came here for, weren´t we???

 

Good luck

 

Glegolo

[glegolo]

56 minutes ago, xerostar said:

 

Thank you so much laislica (and others) for your advice.

I said to my friends recently:

  "If you want to know how to make your life more complicated then just ask me, I'm an expert!". 

I'm  thankful there are some people with compassion, ready to listen and empathize, rather than to criticize.

People like myself (and others in difficult situations) really appreciate that hand on our shoulder and a word of encouragement.

 

 

 

I personally do not like this at all what you are saying. To me it seems that so many of you guys needs to be straighten out, rather than be babied or hugged....

 

If you need re-insurance in this situation, you are at the wrong place i guess (Thailand),,,, maybe the Vatican-state and the Pope, is a better suited place for that.

 

So education, and doing the legal thing, and learn the process.. the rest is just bullshit... escuse my poor french..

 

Glegolo

[SaintLouisBlues]

You paid 30,000 Bt. to an agent?
I did mine yesterday in Soi 5, Jomtien. Was in and out in minutes (nobody waiting in front of me) had a young man sitting outside counter 8, sorted all the paperwork out, even had a photocopier at his disposel. Got my No.to come back today after 2pm and collect my passport and have my photo taken while collecting it. That too took only a couple of minutes.

But you are an intelligent person. Many are not, *or* prefer not to deal with Thai bureaucracy

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

But you are an intelligent person. Many are not, *or* prefer not to deal with Thai bureaucracy

People are gonna make their choices but works for you this year may not work for you the next.

[laislica]

A quote that perhaps some or our contributors on this forum would do well to consider?:

 

Don't take the wrong side of an argument just because your opponent has taken the right side. ~ Baltasar Gracian