Agent or DIY ? - Retirement visa whinge

[xerostar]

In October 2015 I went to an agent who was able to get me a retirement visa within a few days at a cost of 30,000 Baht.
I attended Chaengwattana with the agent's deputy and the procedure was completed within minutes.
I noticed a 1000 Baht note was attached to the paperwork along with my passport.
After a week my passport was returned to me complete with a Non-Imm O retirement visa stamp.

The agent had told me I did not have to do anything else for a year.
What he did not say (or I may have forgotten) that I should return to him after one year for the extension process.

About the same time October 2015 I rented a condo where I have stayed on a few occasions since then.
I noticed some immigration officers on my last two entries were a bit irritated, but stamped me in anyway.

I arrived back in Thailand 20th December 2016 and decided on a DIY application for an extension, figuring I may save another hefty fee for agent services.

The expiry date of my retirement visa is 24th January 2017.

My DIY experience:

I went to the OZ embassy (1.5 hours) and did a stat-dec for proof of income and paid the 500 Baht fee. Then I got a taxi the Chaengwattana
(another 1.5 hours) and got a number. I waited from 10.00 am and to cut a long story short had to come back after lunch and waited until 4.00 pm before my number came up. The officer looked at my paperwork and with dismay, asked me "why didn't you go back to the agent?" and seeing my "report on residence" told me to quickly get a number for section "A" to report my address before they close at 4.30pm.

So I got a number and waited until 4.40 pm before the officer saw me. He studied my passport, looked angry, looked quickly through my residence report and told me "it is no good because you have not got the correct form filled in by the owner of the condo". He gave me the blank form TM 30. with a pamphlet attached. "You get the owner to fill in this form and come back tomorrow!" he said.

The pamphlet had a warning that says: "Overdue notification of residence will result in a fine of up to 5000 Baht".
(I had told the owner a month before to give me all required info and she did give indisputable written evidence but she omitted the magic form TM 30 that this guy insisted upon)

so I went home "a bit irritated" to say the least. 

I could not get the form filled in because the owner was up-country somewhere. She was kind enough to download a form, fill it in and sent it to me via snail-mail. 

By this time it was Wednesday 4th January.
I set forth at 7.30 pm and got a taxi to Chaengwattana arriving shortly before 9.00am.
Got a number from the counter and went to section A. My number was 106 and they were just dealing with number 35 .. The place was packed to the rafters !
I figured they were getting through one per minute, so had to wait just over an hour.
As my luck was out, I got the same officer again. He looked quickly through my address report as though he was looking for something .. (maybe an attached 1000 Baht note?)

He then studied my passport again and began to show an angry face. 
He said "You go back to the agent!" I said "but you told me last time to come back here when I have the correct form?"  He just repeated: "You go back to the agent!"

I protested but he just repeated "You go back to the agent!" (looking more angry than before)

So I got up and left, "feeling frustrated" to say the least. 

I got a taxi direct to the agent who was fortunately in a better mood than the last person.

He said he could do an extension for me "today for 16,000 baht .."

I gave it some thought and decided that if I stick with this guy, it will continue to cost me more than I can afford ..

He asked when I was going back to Oz. I said "next week".
He suggested: "why not go back and apply for a new O-visa ? Then when you return you will have 3 months in which to apply for a new retirement visa"  simple !
I thanked him for his advice and went home to my condo feeling exhausted and angry. (maybe I need anger management?)

 

So all those funds I had invested, taxi fares all over BKK, hours wasted getting photos, filling in forms, doing a stat dec, have all resulted in nothing but a headache.

 

I was saying to the taxi driver: I am very unhappy with the Thai immigration department:

"I have been coming to Thailand for the past 17 years, spent a lot of money (more than 15 million Baht) and helped a lot of people.

I have never overstayed, never been in trouble with the law and yet this is how I get treated - like a dog!"

I am a 71 year old, semi-retired health professional. I don't feel I should be treated like this in the "land of smiles"

My few weeks holiday have been a stressful nightmare - for what? Because some immigration desk-jockey enjoyed using his power over me?

OK maybe he is an example of an overworked, underpaid government worker. They do appear to have a lot to do every day, seeing hundreds of applicants from all over.

 

The Thai Tourist Department is doing their best to get more visitors to Thailand and the Immigration Department are doing their best to keep good people away!

I'd advise only well-healed people to use an agent such as mine - it will lock you in to a convenient, but expensive way to get things done.

If your circumstances change, like mine and you can't afford it, then you will have to start from scratch.

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by xerostar

[billd766]

I have been doing my own retirement extension up country in rural Khampaeng Phet since 2009. I used to go to the UK embassy to get my pension confirmation letter but now I have to do it by post.

 

I use the income method.

 

I generally start my application folder in May, about 3 months early to allow my UK pension providers a month for snail mail.

 

Having got them I then edit the UK embassy application and send it off at the back end of June by EMS and that is back within a working week.

 

I then go to the immigration office at Nakhon Sawan after 23rd July (125km and a couple of hours down the road) arriving around 10 am with the original and 2 copies of all my paperwork.

 

My extension is not actually due until 23rd August sort gives me a month to sort out any problems.

 

I am usually out of the Immigration office by 11.15, all stamped up with an extension until 23rd August the following year, a new 90 day report and a smile on my face.

 

The cost is 2,600 thb (including admin charges) for the embassy letter of confirmation plus 1,900 thb for the immigration fee plus transport costs to Nakhon Sawan and back. I generally make a day out of it and in 7 years I have had no problems, no agents fees, and a good day out.

 

My first extension was at Mae Sot before Nakhon Sawan opened, the next 6 were at Nakhon Sawan and next year it will be at the new office in Khampaeng Phet.

[Lite Beer]

This is what happens when you try to take short cuts and get extensions of stay by dubious methods.

Do it legal and sleep at night.

[OJAS]

Of particular interest to non-immigrants living in Bangkok, though, is that, in common with most other offices (including mine), Chaengwattana may now be insisting on completed TM30's as a matter of course at extension of stay time.

Edited January 6, 2017 by OJAS

[buick]

OP - thanks for the report.  16,000 doesn't sound all that bad but who knows what the price will be next year.  as noted in this thread, you kind of have to stick with one or the other (agent or DIY).  you might consider BTS/MRT to mochit/chatuchak to help avoid traffic to/from CW (not sure where you stay).  all day at CW can be really tough on the mind and body. 

 

 

[xerostar]

 

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

This is what happens when you try to take short cuts and get extensions of stay by dubious methods.

Do it legal and sleep at night.

 

At the time I had no idea that this was an abnormal short cut, let alone that it might be illegal.

It was only when I saw the 1000 Baht note (placed by the agent) that I suspected something unusual.

Nor did I know I would have trouble if I decided to "change methods" at any time.

 

Just the same, why the big drama?  

Someone should have seen I was trying to do the right thing ..

but I forgot, this is Thailand, normal logic does not work here.

Why could they not at least have acknowledged my proof of address? or my ready-prepared application for extension.

It's not like I was dressed in thongs and board shorts and smelling unwashed like some who go in there.

I was dressed neatly, clean shaven and courteous. 

So now I am about 1 year 4 months overdue for reporting my address ..

 

What happened to:  "Good guys in, Bad guys out?"

 

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by xerostar

[Oxx]

What I find curious is the requirement for a TM.30.  I'm pretty sure this isn't standard practice at Chaengwattana.  At least, I've never been asked for it when doing extensions.

 

Any thoughts, anybody?

[glegolo]

For me.. staying in Thailand all these years, and still do not know anything about what laws and rules applies within the Immigration-system.....

 

I cant really understand that kind of people.... We, individually are responsible for our own lifes, and cant live our lifes blaming everything on others.....

 

You started up your life here with a doubtful shortcut, learning absolutely nothing about anything, and now Thailand is shit to you....

 

Learn the process OP, and try to understand the process.... and stay away from these agents.

 

Good luck...

Glegolo

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

This is what happens when you try to take short cuts and get extensions of stay by dubious methods.

Do it legal and sleep at night.

 

Yep, a friend of mine used the same route only it cost him 42,000BHT through a well known legal firm.

 

He moved up Country, registered with his new local office, who then refused to allow him to do 90 day reports at their office.

Told him to go back to CW who issued the Non O and extension based on retirement to do his reports.

 

Apparently not impressed that a Non O Visa was issued one day and the extension stamp the next day.

What happened to the 2 month seasoning of the funds in-between???

Legitimate Visa and extension, just issued under unusual circumstances.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Lite Beer said:

This is what happens when you try to take short cuts and get extensions of stay by dubious methods.

Do it legal and sleep at night.

 

And if you're going to whine/whinge about the problems you created for yourself, do it in two paragraphs or less.

 

I managed to get through Tolstoy's War and Peace, but not the original post in this thread.

[dentonian]

14 minutes ago, Oxx said:

What I find curious is the requirement for a TM.30.  I'm pretty sure this isn't standard practice at Chaengwattana.  At least, I've never been asked for it when doing extensions.

 

Any thoughts, anybody?

 

CW haven't enforced for the requirement to file a new TM30 when re-entering the Country.

 

I suspect they are enforcing the requirement to file one when your first registering.

Would you remember, or even know if your wife, g/f, landlord filed one some years ago?

[dentonian]

8 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

And if you're going to whine/whinge about the problems you created for yourself, do it in two paragraphs or less.

 

I managed to get through Tolstoy's War and Peace, but not the original post in this thread.

 

Yeah but you read it. some choose to live it!

[dentonian]

@xerostar,

And did you supply copies of the landlords Tabien Baan and ID card with the TM30 form?

 

What other documents did you supply for your retirement extension.

I suspect the IO couldn't be bothered to explain, or know how to explain just where your documents were failing.

[worgeordie]

I suppose some people really need to use an agent,all the information

has been posted on this forum umpteen times,it's definitely not rocket

science,with just a little bit of effort he could have saved himself 46K 

Thb, is that what agents charge down in Bangkok ? or has he been

scammed.    30K the first time,and 16K the 2nd,and been told he does not

need to do anything for 12 months,what about 90 day reporting 

regards Worgeordie

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, worgeordie said:

I suppose some people really need to use an agent

It's called "please go away and leave me alone" money - one of my neighbors is happy to pay it

[xerostar]

To: glegolo

You have no idea how I started my life here  ..

and you have no idea how much I have "studied the process"so your opinion is without logic.

Oh.. but I guess you enjoy shooting down people who tell the truth in order to help others avoid the traps.

 

and to: suradit69

A serious approach to this subject does not allow for brevity.  I called it a whinge

- if you don't like whingers then read no further!

If you don't like essays then don't read them !

 

Apparently I missed the post "Do not use an agent otherwise you will create problems for yourself"

 

 

 

[xerostar]

11 minutes ago, dentonian said:

@xerostar,

And did you supply copies of the landlords Tabien Baan and ID card with the TM30 form?

 

What other documents did you supply for your retirement extension.

I suspect the IO couldn't be bothered to explain, or know how to explain just where your documents were failing.

 

Yes I supplied the copies of the  landlords Tabien Baan and ID card with the TM30 form as well as her copy of her ID card - signed.

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, xerostar said:

To: glegolo

You have no idea how I started my life here  ..

and you have no idea how much I have "studied the process"so your opinion is without logic.

Oh.. but I guess you enjoy shooting down people who tell the truth in order to help others avoid the traps.

 

and to: suradit69

A serious approach to this subject does not allow for brevity.  I called it a whinge

- if you don't like whingers then read no further!

If you don't like essays then don't read them !

 

Apparently I missed the post "Do not use an agent otherwise you will create problems for yourself"

 

 

 

A cursory glance through the extension topics in here will wave red flags at you about agents.  The IO was getting a backhander from the agent, so he wants you to keep doing that.  

 

Retirement extensions are lots of papers but nothing difficult.  Follow the rules, especially as they are discussed in here by the old hands, and it's perfectly possible to DIY without drama.

 

Waiting in the queue is a different topic -- choose a day when the office is not so busy....

[dentonian]

16 minutes ago, xerostar said:

 

Yes I supplied the copies of the  landlords Tabien Baan and ID card with the TM30 form as well as her copy of her ID card - signed.

 

Is the address of your dwelling the same address the agent used previously.

They sometimes use their own address, so it could be the information you are now supplying does not match with their records.

If the address is different, they would need a TM28 (change of address) filed first.

 

I'm curious what other documents you filed as part of your application.

Where have you been doing your 90 day reports.

Edited January 6, 2017 by dentonian

[IMA_FARANG]

Things you do not need an agent for in Bangkok at CW for a retirement visa /extension or a yearly renewal:

You not need to arrivae with photos, they can be made in lesss than 2 minutes down on the ground floor. 4 photos for 100 Baht

You do not need to fill ou the Tm-47 application form if you don't want to, one of the girls in the copy shop will fill out the form for 30 Baht. Just sign your name on the signature line. She will also fill out your residence address if you have an address card from you residence. This is done from your passport and address data st the same shop where you get the photos made.

You do not need  to get a bank account balance letter as most Thai banks have an office on the 1st floor. just bring your bankbook and they will print you letter in less than 10 minutes on a computer form dated the sme day. Signed by the bank and accepted upstairs in the immigration office.

Having done that stuff just go upstairs and get your queue number. If it looks like there may be a wait before your queue number comes up, go back downstairs to the coffee shop znd get yourself a coffes and some donuts.

Relax.

Type "A" people in Bangkok have problems.

 

[crazygreg44]

21 minutes ago, xerostar said:

 

Yes I supplied the copies of the  landlords Tabien Baan and ID card with the TM30 form as well as her copy of her ID card - signed.

 

yes you did, but appararently 1 year too late!  You have already quoted this in your post No. 6.

 

From the very beginning when you first got issued a stay permit,  there should have been a paper containing your reported adress clipped into your passport. Was there ?

 

The method of the agent was very dubious from the very beginning,  because you normally do not receive a Non Imm-O Visa for retirement purpose in a neighboring country nor from an agent inside Thailand, but only from a honorary consulate or the embassy of Thailand in your home country, together with a police clearance and a medical certificate.

Edited January 6, 2017 by crazygreg44

[Suradit69]

40 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Yeah but you read it. some choose to live it!

 

Are you referring to the 1812 invasion of Russia by Napoleon or using an agent to deal with immigrations?

[dentonian]

1 minute ago, crazygreg44 said:

 

The method of the agent was very dubious from the very beginning,  because you normally do not receive a Non-O Visa for retirement purpose in a neighbouring country nor from a agant inside Thailand, but only in your home country. Together with a police report.

 

The method to obtain his last extension may have been dubious because it obviously involved corruption.

 

There is a legitimate process at CW where they will issue a Non Imm O Visa, but only as a prelude to obtaining an extension based on either reirirement or marriage.

Some arrive on the wrong Visa type or even Visa exempts, and use this conversion option to obtain a Non O and subsequent extension without having to leave Thailand. The legitimate process would require 2 visits, 2 months apart to CW.

[dentonian]

2 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Are you referring to the 1812 invasion of Russia by Napoleon or using an agent to deal with immigrations?

 

Definitely the 1812 invasion of Russia by Napoleon.

Using Visa agents wouldn't be cause to start a war with Immigration.............would it!   

[Thailand]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

What I find curious is the requirement for a TM.30.  I'm pretty sure this isn't standard practice at Chaengwattana.  At least, I've never been asked for it when doing extensions.

 

Any thoughts, anybody?

Chiang Mai Immigration have found it is a lucrative form of income expect the practice to be countrywide.

[NancyL]

49 minutes ago, xerostar said:

To: glegolo

You have no idea how I started my life here  ..

and you have no idea how much I have "studied the process"so your opinion is without logic.

Oh.. but I guess you enjoy shooting down people who tell the truth in order to help others avoid the traps.

 

and to: suradit69

A serious approach to this subject does not allow for brevity.  I called it a whinge

- if you don't like whingers then read no further!

If you don't like essays then don't read them !

 

Apparently I missed the post "Do not use an agent otherwise you will create problems for yourself"

 

 

 

 

Xerostar, this forum has had numerous reports of people who have acquired visas using dubious techniques like you did originally and then discovering that they're greeted with suspicion and the sort of treatment you encountered when they try to DIY the next year.  Any IO could see that you used a dubious technique to acquire your first extension and they don't want to "confirm" the validity of that extension by granting you another.  That's why they're telling you to go back to your original agent, who will probably go back to whatever corrupt IO he used initially.  You can't blame the IO for treating you this way, can you? He doesn't want to get into trouble for, in effect, confirming that your first extension was OK by granting you another extension.

 

 

[captnhoy]

11 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Chiang Mai Immigration have found it is a lucrative form of income expect the practice to be countrywide.

 

Same as Ranong. I have done my own extension of stay for 9 years. I for one have some empathy for the OP. It is so easy for the know-it-alls on here to criticize one who is learning it the hard way. I also would not have returned to the agent. The office wants the bribe to keep coming - sure. Too bad - it is not a life sentence. Just tell him politely - No sir, I cannot, what it the problem with my papers?  I wish Ranong had all the conveniences of BKK. But not the crowds.

[louse1953]

2 hours ago, xerostar said:

 

 

At the time I had no idea that this was an abnormal short cut, let alone that it might be illegal.

It was only when I saw the 1000 Baht note (placed by the agent) that I suspected something unusual.

Nor did I know I would have trouble if I decided to "change methods" at any time.

 

Just the same, why the big drama?  

Someone should have seen I was trying to do the right thing ..

but I forgot, this is Thailand, normal logic does not work here.

Why could they not at least have acknowledged my proof of address? or my ready-prepared application for extension.

It's not like I was dressed in thongs and board shorts and smelling unwashed like some who go in there.

I was dressed neatly, clean shaven and courteous. 

So now I am about 1 year 4 months overdue for reporting my address ..

 

What happened to:  "Good guys in, Bad guys out?"

 

 

I rekon the 30k baht should have been a hint.I do wear thongs cos it's hot and shorts as well.I must admit i put a shirt over my singlet to tart up a bit.I also use deodorant and have never had a problem at my locaL,DIY.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Chiang Mai Immigration have found it is a lucrative form of income expect the practice to be countrywide.

The only reason it is lucrative is because of non compliance of applicants.No lucrativity from me.

[dotpoom]

You paid 30,000 Bt. to an agent?

I did mine yesterday in Soi 5, Jomtien. Was in and out in minutes (nobody waiting in front of me) had a young man sitting outside counter 8, sorted all the paperwork out, even had a photocopier at his disposel. Got my No.to come back today after 2pm and collect my passport and have my photo taken while collecting it. That too took only a couple of minutes.