Returning to U.K. after 11 years

[NoshowJones]

22 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Yet, you are complaining about taxes? How does that work again in the real world?

 

We all must pay taxes, but in the UK there is just so many of them, and some are unfair.

[elliss]

8 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

... Because Thai healthcare is so much better.

 

        Really ,   on  what  facts , do you base that statement on .

    From my  experiences with  Thai medicare , i was asked for means of payment , before treatment. 

             No money , NO take care , blood spouting out of me . 

 

,   I  visited two Thai hospitals , regarding a  minor growth  i had ,  prices quoted 40k -50000 bht .    On my return to UK ,  i visited  my  local  GP,    problem sorted in house , thanks UK health care

 

       

Edited February 12, 2017 by elliss

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

Yes, I realise that, but the point I made to the Minister was that I'm a current UK Taxpayer and a proportion of my current tax liability, albeit miniscule, goes towards current NHS funding, but I'm denied access. Whilst I wrote to Jeremey Hunt expressing my concerns, my letter never made it past his correspondence unit, they point blank refused to pass it on.
I don't know if any of you saw Ann Widdecombe on Question Time this week, she was basically saying they should remove the NHS from the political arena, tear it up and start again, it'll never happen though. I had a lot of dealing with Ann Widdicombe in a previous life, she's completely bonkers but one of the most passionate, intelligent and caring Ministers I ever had the pleasure of working with.
  

Hunt is a smug prat, reminiscent of a prefect catching a kid smoking behind a bike-shed. 

 

I'd prefer 'Doris Karloff ' anyday if she ever came out of retirement! :)

Edited February 12, 2017 by evadgib

[theguyfromanotherforum]

        Really ,   on  what  facts , do you base that statement on .
    From my  experiences with  Thai medicare , i was asked for means of payment , before treatment. 
             No money , NO take care , blood spouting out of me . 
 
,   I  visited two Thai hospitals , regarding a  minor growth  i had ,  prices quoted 40k -50000 bht .    On my return to UK ,  i visited  my  local  GP,    problem sorted in house , thanks UK health care
 
       

Thanks for quoting one sentence out of context. Fake quote like fake news.

[chiang mai]

8 hours ago, elliss said:

        Really ,   on  what  facts , do you base that statement on .

    From my  experiences with  Thai medicare , i was asked for means of payment , before treatment. 

             No money , NO take care , blood spouting out of me . 

 

,   I  visited two Thai hospitals , regarding a  minor growth  i had ,  prices quoted 40k -50000 bht .    On my return to UK ,  i visited  my  local  GP,    problem sorted in house , thanks UK health care

 

       

 "No money , NO take care , blood spouting out of me".

 

That never happened, I'm absolutely certain of that.

[KNJ]

To qualify for NHS officially you need to have resided back in UK for at least 6 months, otherwise you pay 150% of cost.

GPs are actively kicking people off who they have not seen for more than 18 months My wife did not respond to a  cervical cancer monitoring program our GP was running, was removed from the GP list which created a problem when she was admitted to A&E as it showed no GP on their database.

She was still seen but they definitely check.

This will inevitably get worse, and the checks more intensive. Hopefully anyone needing emergency care should receive treatment, but on a list for treatment will be more problematic.

[chiang mai]

34 minutes ago, KNJ said:

To qualify for NHS officially you need to have resided back in UK for at least 6 months, otherwise you pay 150% of cost.

GPs are actively kicking people off who they have not seen for more than 18 months My wife did not respond to a  cervical cancer monitoring program our GP was running, was removed from the GP list which created a problem when she was admitted to A&E as it showed no GP on their database.

She was still seen but they definitely check.

This will inevitably get worse, and the checks more intensive. Hopefully anyone needing emergency care should receive treatment, but on a list for treatment will be more problematic.

Rubbish, there is no six months residency required.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations

 

[KNJ]

Read on

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/13/nhs-hospital-patients-may-have-to-show-id-to-access-treatment

 

 

[KNJ]

To qualify you need to be "Ordinary resident" and unless you have that status they are entitled to charge you http://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/hr-services/relocating-uk/living-uk/healthcare/eligibility-nhs-treatment

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, KNJ said:

To qualify you need to be "Ordinary resident" and unless you have that status they are entitled to charge you http://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/hr-services/relocating-uk/living-uk/healthcare/eligibility-nhs-treatment

"Determining ordinary residence

3 .10  Whether a person is ordinarily resident in the UK is essentially a three-fold test (four-fold

for non-EEA nationals) assessing whether that individual:

(i) is lawfully in the UK;

(ii)  is here voluntarily – it will be rare for a person not to be in the UK voluntarily; and

(iii) is properly settled here for the time being; and

(iv) in the case of non-EEA nationals subject to immigration control, has ILR in the UK".

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/496951/Overseas_visitor_hospital_charging_accs.pdf

 

Nowhere is six months mentioned, properly settled and ordinary resident can be from Day 1.

[Eff1n2ret]

8 minutes ago, KNJ said:

Read on

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/13/nhs-hospital-patients-may-have-to-show-id-to-access-treatment

 

 

You misunderstand the meaning of this line in the article:-

 

"People living in the UK for more than six months are entitled to free care" 

 

That means that foreign visitors, who are given permission to enter the UK for no more than 6 months, are not entitled to free hospital treatment. Anyone given permission to stay for longer than 6 months is so entitled. British citizens do not have to qualify for residence in the UK, but if they are not entering to resume residence they will be treated like visitors and expected to pay. If they are coming back to live in the UK they are entitled from day 1. They just have to be able to prove it.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Eff1n2ret

[theoldgit]

@KNJ I think you will find that NHS Trusts will work to official Government instructions rather than a newspaper article.

The fact remains that a British National who is returning to live in the UK, and can satisfy NHS of the fact, is entitled to free access to the NHS from day one. The six months rule applies to benefits, The Guardian reporter seems to be confused.

[chiang mai]

 

"Chapter 3. Ordinary residence 31

In the past, the Department of Health has suggested that someone who has been here for

less than six months is less likely to meet the ‘settled’ criterion of the ordinary residence

description, but this is only a guideline. For a British citizen, an EEA national and for a non-

EEA national with ILR or a non-EEA national not subject to immigration control, it is perfectly

possible to be ordinarily resident here from the day of arrival, when it is clear that that person

has, upon arrival, taken up settled residence. In each case, it is for the relevant NHS body to

decide whether the criteria within the ordinary residence description are met. A tool has also

been developed to assist them in considering whether an individual is properly settled in the

UK in order to establish ordinary residence".

[KNJ]

No you officially have to show you are "Ordinary Resident" and being an grumpy old git residing in Thailand you may be normally classed non resident and thus excluded.

If questioned the onus is on yourself to prove that.
yet one more time you are living in the past and not up to date with current thinking or legislation

[KNJ]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

"Chapter 3. Ordinary residence 31

In the past, the Department of Health has suggested that someone who has been here for

less than six months is less likely to meet the ‘settled’ criterion of the ordinary residence

description, but this is only a guideline. For a British citizen, an EEA national and for a non-

EEA national with ILR or a non-EEA national not subject to immigration control, it is perfectly

possible to be ordinarily resident here from the day of arrival, when it is clear that that person

has, upon arrival, taken up settled residence. In each case, it is for the relevant NHS body to

decide whether the criteria within the ordinary residence description are met. A tool has also

been developed to assist them in considering whether an individual is properly settled in the

UK in order to establish ordinary residence".

Exactly just turning up for treatment if you have a residential address, bills etc, you MAY get away with it, BUT it is not guaranteed.

It may not be nice, BUT that is the direction NHS is heading, They need to save money, in all places

[Eff1n2ret]

1 minute ago, KNJ said:

 

If questioned the onus is on yourself to prove that.
 

 

But that 's what we're all telling you. The entitlement starts from day 1, but if you've just got off the plane and ended up in a hospital bed, you can expect them to ask a few questions. You may not have a utility bill, but if you can show them the shipping documents for all your possession, or the instructions to letting agents to give notice to your tenants because you want the house back, or something like that, then you won't get a bill. Or if you do, the onus then falls on them to prove that they're justified in chasing you for payment.

[chiang mai]

Just now, KNJ said:

Exactly just turning up for treatment if you have a residential address, bills etc, you MAY get away with it, BUT it is not guaranteed.

It may not be nice, BUT that is the direction NHS is heading, They need to save money, in all places

 

1 minute ago, KNJ said:

Exactly just turning up for treatment if you have a residential address, bills etc, you MAY get away with it, BUT it is not guaranteed.

It may not be nice, BUT that is the direction NHS is heading, They need to save money, in all places

"it is perfectly

possible to be ordinarily resident here from the day of arrival, when it is clear that that person

has, upon arrival, taken up settled residence".

 

If you read the guidance notes et al you will see that having a residential address and bills is NOT a prerequisite, a person just needs to be settled for the time being and could easily be homeless. So if the UK expat for example has sold all is assets abroad, moved his funds to the UK and arrived here on a one way ticket, the likelihood is that person will be regarded as settled.

[theoldgit]

3 minutes ago, KNJ said:

If questioned the onus is on yourself to prove that.

 

Which I why I said

a British National who is returning to live in the UK,

and can satisfy NHS of the fact

[KNJ]

Shipping docs would be a reasonable  proof, but just rocking up is not, nor is declaring "I paid tax for 35 years"

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, KNJ said:

No you officially have to show you are "Ordinary Resident" and being an grumpy old git residing in Thailand you may be normally classed non resident and thus excluded.

If questioned the onus is on yourself to prove that.
yet one more time you are living in the past and not up to date with current thinking or legislation

You haven't read the NHS or governement documentation on this subject, you're just going by what you've read in newspapers. Well this forum has read that material every which and it's been discussed here more times than Beach Road has! Please read the material in the links supplied and get up to speed before commenting again.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/430967/OR_Tool__1_.pdf

 

/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-for-nhs-to-recover-costs-of-care-from-visitors-and-migrants

 

[theoldgit]

5 minutes ago, KNJ said:

but just rocking up is not, nor is declaring "I paid tax for 35 years"

And nobody is suggesting it is

 

 

[KNJ]

The NHS is in crisis, they are moving towards recovering as much as possible wherever possible.

If you rock up to A&E and it is an emergency you will be treated, but if you have no GP, no address, etc it will raise a red flag.

GP registration and A&E work on a common database, if you have been deregistered they will know.

It is only a matter of time before NI and tax records are linked

[KNJ]

2 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

4 minutes ago, KNJ said:

but just rocking up is not, nor is declaring "I paid tax for 35 years" [\quote]

And nobody is suggesting it is.

Unfortunately some in this forum are

[chiang mai]

Just now, KNJ said:

The NHS is in crisis, they are moving towards recovering as much as possible wherever possible.

If you rock up to A&E and it is an emergency you will be treated, but if you have no GP, no address, etc it will raise a red flag.

GP registration and A&E work on a common database, if you have been deregistered they will know.

It is only a matter of time before NI and tax records are linked

Your position on this subject is getting better, you've gone from a mandatory six months residence to raising a red flag, that's an improvement I suppose. I still suggest strongly however you read the notes supplied, especially the Ordinary Residence Test.

[KNJ]

I Have, there is your interpretation, mine, and the NHS, which do you think will be applied?

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, KNJ said:

I Have, there is your interpretation, mine, and the NHS, which do you think will be applied?

It depends on the circumstances of the person who needs treatment. YOU started off by saying 6 months residency is required, it's not. The NHS and government says it's perfectly possible to be ordinarily resident from Day 1, the circumstances of the patient will determine the outcome but there is no blanket rule that's the same for everyone, least of all six months residency..

[Eff1n2ret]

It's a big mistake when thinking about such matters to rely for detail on anything in the news media, who describe problems in general terms. Thus you get a piece in the Guardian saying that people who are in the UK for more than 6 months qualify for NHS treatment, but little thought is given by reporters and commentators to the fact that the NHS rules now catch British expats visiting the UK, and as theoldgit pointed out, the reporter may simply have been confusing NHS entitlement with benefits. The unfortunate fact is that whilst the media have rightly focussed on the scandal of foreign visitors receiving millions of pounds-worth of treatment in UK hospitals, the ones most likely to suffer from measures to recoup these costs are the likes of us expat Brits, because if our pensions are paid from the UK or we have any bank accounts or assets there we're a far easier target than foreigners who arrive and cast themselves on the welfare system that we paid for during 40 years or more, and are still paying for.

[ajarngreg]

On 1/24/2017 at 7:31 AM, catman20 said:

I SHOULD THINK THEIRS HUNDREDS THAT HAVE WALKED IN YOUR SHOES . GOOD LUCK.

+ 1.  Best of luck. 

[partington]

4 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

It's a big mistake when thinking about such matters to rely for detail on anything in the news media, who describe problems in general terms. Thus you get a piece in the Guardian saying that people who are in the UK for more than 6 months qualify for NHS treatment, but little thought is given by reporters and commentators to the fact that the NHS rules now catch British expats visiting the UK, and as theoldgit pointed out, the reporter may simply have been confusing NHS entitlement with benefits. The unfortunate fact is that whilst the media have rightly focussed on the scandal of foreign visitors receiving millions of pounds-worth of treatment in UK hospitals, the ones most likely to suffer from measures to recoup these costs are the likes of us expat Brits, because if our pensions are paid from the UK or we have any bank accounts or assets there we're a far easier target than foreigners who arrive and cast themselves on the welfare system that we paid for during 40 years or more, and are still paying for.

Also bear in mind that according to BBC news estimated costs to the NHS annually for 'health tourist' treatments, that is treatment of foreign visitors who are not strictly entitled to use the NHS services, amounts to about 30 million pounds per year.

 

To put this in perspective, if the now discredited promise on the side of the "Brexit Bus" to use the (also discredited)  £350m weekly contribution to the EU to fund the health service was kept for only 14 hours in a year it would pay for this.

[elliss]

15 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 "No money , NO take care , blood spouting out of me".

 

That never happened, I'm absolutely certain of that.

 

 Has happened , AEK  hospital Udon Thani .