Australian PM describes frank call with Trump after Washington Post reports angry exchange

[Dumbastheycome]

4 hours ago, optad said:

Operation Enduring freedom....

 

I hope the reality under Trump sobers so many of these participating nations that the the only constructive outcome is an American agenda. It never was necessarily a pluralistic or shared one. 

 

Let's get principled, and devolve.

This  bogus invasion and  destruction was  initiated  by the  USA and drew on resources from UN  nations who mistakenly participated even mainly by  providing  humanitarian  support !  And with  usual outcome continues  to be a disaster!

The numbers  of dead  who are  not  from the  USA  are a significant blight  mark ! The  numbers of dead from the USA  are  an equal significant indication of  policy that cares only  for  presence and the introduction of an agenda  now  being culminated in desperation. It will not only also fail  but  has the very  real potential  to globally destroy us. 

[elgordo38]

55 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

May....shrewd?  I guess time will tell but at the moment.....

I hope May does not stumble when walking behind Trump. Blair did when walking behind Bush and his nose ended up being brown and unwashable for years. 

[ilostmypassword]

Well, Australia has lots of beaches and great surfing. Maybe Trump confused it with California? Which, as everyone knows, is the real enemy.

[elgordo38]

Politicians are a funny breed. One minute they can slander each other like before Trump was elected (They did so thinking he would never be elected) they all hurled insults about him and once in office they fell all over him. Nieto from Mexico is a good example. He and Trump had words and he cancelled his trip to the USA in a huff. 24 hours later the honeymoon was back on again and they came up with the brilliant idea of making drug dealers pay for the wall. Talk about your Looney Tunes your living it. 

[elgordo38]

This is what I was able to garner. He dearly needs copies of "How To Make Friends And Influence People

It should have been one of the most congenial calls for the new commander in chief — a conversation with the leader of Australia, one of America’s staunchest allies, at the end of a triumphant week.

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that, “This was the worst call by far.”

[stevenl]

The answer to that is fairly clear: (1) under the previous Labor Party government, the effect of large numbers of boat people arriving from Sri Lanka & Iran, Iraq & Afghanistan was that a couple of thousand refugees drowned at sea. Since the Liberal government cracked down on boat people arrivals & made it clear that NONE would ever be allowed to enter Australia, there have been no drownings at sea & the networks of people smugglers including in Indonesia have been largely dismantled. So the argument is that Australia's refusal to accept refugees & would-be migrants who arrive by boat is that many lives are saved; (2) the effect however was that some people are now stuck in the various offshore island camps. The deal with Obama said: You take our boat people, all properly vetted as they now are (to the extent possible with people who were encouraged by people smugglers to destroy their ID papers before arrival), and we'll take an equal number of your illegal but vetted Latinos. From Australia's point of view this was a good deal because it maintains the line that no boat people will be admitted EVER to Australia.

Another reason is that a deal was struck about this, renegotiating an already agreed deal shows an unreliable business partner.

sent using Tapatalk

[Scott]

I have to agree with some of Jayboy's points.   It is very hard to know what the specifics are from the previous administration, so it would be in everyone's interest if Trump were not so vocal just yet.   Sadly, in all likelihood, these refugees were just pawns in other agreements.  

 

The US certainly is not obliged to deal with Australia's refugee/migrant problem.   If the US can help, then it should.   It's what friends do for friends.   

 

I think that part of what happened was that as the rhetoric heated up on ME refugees, the Obama administration wanted to stick to taking in the 25,000 or so refugees it had agreed to take.   The Australian refugees are the safest bet.   They have been thoroughly screened, they have been out of their country and probably the very least likely to cause any type of disturbance if resettled.  

 

[Guest]

So, are we back to the old story where the Trumputin, with Bannon, wishes to destroy the western co-operation? They wish to destroy the western way of living.

 

 

[Opl]

3 hours ago, taichiplanet said:

interesting theories starting to come out, particularly one by Yonatan Zunger which was followed up by Michael Moore

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.61v90bjfa

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-michael-moore-coup-us-steve-bannon-sally-yates-rule-of-law-a7554556.html?cmpid=facebook-post

 

maybe far fetched but Donald Duck could be setting things up to take feathering one's own bed  to a new level.

 

If at all possible it would be great if Australia could close down Pine Gap for a few days, then we might see Donald with cap in hand apologising. But it will never happen, there isn't any Australian politician with the guts to do what NZ did.

 

A must read post thanks, Thaichiplanet,  for sharing

 

- from your first link Trial balloon for a coup  " Because the much-maligned Steele Dossier (the one with the golden showers in it) included the statement that Putin had offered Trump 19% of Rosneft if he became president and removed sanctions. ..."

 

- from your second link:  " The US is in the middle of a coup and hasn't realised, according to Michael Moore... the Administration (is) in the middle of transferring all executive power "to a tight inner circle, eliminating any possible checks from either the Federal bureaucracy, Congress, or the Courts. Departments are being reorganized or purged to effect this"."

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Opl

[KhaoNiaw]

From the Yonatan Zunger article linked above, Trump has already declared his candidacy for the next election, allowing him to start accepting campaign contributions already.

Is this genuine? He's already declared his candidacy? 

"Given that a sizable fraction of the campaign funds from the previous cycle were paid directly to the Trump organization in exchange for building leases, etc., at inflated rates, you can assume that those campaign coffers are a mechanism by which US nationals can easily give cash bribes directly to Trump. Non-US nationals can, of course, continue to use Trump’s hotels and other businesses as a way to funnel money to him. "

[Prbkk]

12 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Wow.  I sure hope this isn't true.  If so...ugh....

It rings true and in any case Turnbull has more or less confirmed it, albeit with slightly more diplomatic language than Trump. 

Trump's view of this is bizarre, at best: why would he seek to unravel the relationship with the PM of one of the two remaining allies of ( economic and strategic) consequence? 

He becomes more and more fruitcake-ish by the minute.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

It rings true and in any case Turnbull has more or less confirmed it, albeit with slightly more diplomatic language than Trump. 

Trump's view of this is bizarre, at best: why would he seek to unravel the relationship with the PM of one of the two remaining allies of ( economic and strategic) consequence? 

He becomes more and more fruitcake-ish by the minute.

Indeed, and he has alienated Germany as well. 

It's almost as if an enemy agent has taken over the white house.

[Pdaz]

Can always return all the refugees  back to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia or wherever else they were from. They tried to illegally ( and paid criminal people smugglers )   circumvent the correct procedure to gain entry to Australia. What about the thousands of people waiting patiently in their home countries who have applied in correct manner ? Why give these queue jumpers precedence ?

Why does the Western World have to shoulder the burden ? Plenty of safe developing countries with room to spare who could benefit. After all according to the media these people are all highly qualified and decent. The developing World should be welcoming them with open arms..

[Ulysses G.]

I am no Trump fanboy - but I do support him. However, he certainly has a point about it being a lousy deal. Obama has stuck him with several of real stinkers and I can understand Trump's disgust. This one pales in comparison to some of the other stupid deals that he has been saddled with.

The problem is that Australia is a close ally and he needs to be more diplomatic. He was way over the top with the PM.

So far, I like what Trump is doing a lot more than I expected to, but also get very exasperated with some of his behaviour. 

The man has balls and he is doing exactly what he said that he would do, but can also be extremely petty about things that he should probably ignore.

The fact that he is being unfairly hounded by the liberal press and the democratic party and each and every move he makes is blown way out of proportion, gives him a lot of sympathy from the man on the street. I don't know anyone who had changed their mind about him. However, he needs to polish his political skills and quickly. The man could end up being a great president, but the jury is still out on overcoming his personal deficiencies.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

39 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

Can always return all the refugees  back to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia or wherever else they were from. They tried to illegally ( and paid criminal people smugglers )   circumvent the correct procedure to gain entry to Australia. What about the thousands of people waiting patiently in their home countries who have applied in correct manner ? Why give these queue jumpers precedence ?

Why does the Western World have to shoulder the burden ? Plenty of safe developing countries with room to spare who could benefit. After all according to the media these people are all highly qualified and decent. The developing World should be welcoming them with open arms..

 

Yes. Queue Jumpers. The gall of these people. They must be executed at once. The anti-immigrant crowd can only find outrage at someone cutting in line and no outrage for the circumstances that drive them to this.

 

You do realize that all credible studies demonstrate that immigration has a net benefit to countries?

 

Australia is a country made from immigrants. Immigration continues to add to the Australian character.

[cncltd1973]

11 hours ago, Redline said:

DT thinks he can talk however he wants to anyone.  He basically told the Australian PM that Putin is a better man than him.  I'm American and disgusted with his childish win/lose mentality.  By by USA.  It will be sad to see, but, the Republicans made the deal.  I blame the Democrats for not letting Bernie win...I see lose, lose, lose....

I see the individual to blame for this entire f-up is Debbie Wasserman Schultz, ex-leader of the Dem Party. She was always about Hillary and didn't give Bernie a fair foothold in the primaries. Bernie was well ahead of DT before the primaries finished. At least Bernie would have presented needed reform without these embarrassing controversies. So once again, Dems are their own worst enemy. And we have a bull who thinks the world is his china shop.

[cncltd1973]

9 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

I wonder what 'transaction' this Transactional President is seeking with this latest gaffe with Australia? Is it as simple as his ego refusing to allow any sign of reversal from his divisive and destructive Muslim Ban? I suspect that this was a knee-jerk reaction to a topic, probably raised by the Australian PM about something that 45 probably didn't know since he appears to be too lazy to get briefed on issues (or he thinks he knows everything of importance) and his staff seem to have their heads so far up their rear ends imposing a new Theocracy of Nihilism on the American political system to have prepared proper briefing papers.

 

What impact will this have on Australian US relations? The Australian PM is playing it down, so probably none. This incident does, however, come at a time when the Australian and US security arrangement, under the ANZUS Treaty (Australia, New Zealand, United States Security Treaty) signed in 1951 has become increasingly controversial, primarily due to the US invasion of Iraq. NZ, which had been sidelined for a while over the nuclear-free Pacific issue had started to issue invitations for US naval vessels to visit and there were some commitments to strengthen ties under the Treaty under the Obama Administration. But now with 45's petulance, baggage and ego getting in the way, who knows the impact on this relationship that has been in place for more than half a century as a central pillar of security and economic development in the region (with things like APEC, ASEAN etc).

 

In addition to the ANZUS Treaty, people may not be familiar with Pine Gap, which is a listening post for the NSA and is rather controversial since it is under the control of the US and not Australia. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-30/australia-acting-as-listening-post-for-us-spy-agencies/5056534

 

Yet Australia's commitment to the relationship with the US has meant successive governments having to accept a facility that allegedly is involved in a number of surveillance programs exposed by Snowdon and considered questionable if not illegal.

 

Pundits talk about the new American isolationism under 45 and what will happen when a global crisis requires US to act and it does not have the support of allies who have been pissed off by 45. I think there is merit in that argument but I also believe that some people, drunk on power and the desire to bring down the Establishment are forgetting things that have allowed global conflict to be avoided for the past 70 odd years and the very deep relationships that are required to sustain them.

 

All for a stupid, meaningless, ego driven ideological position on immigration.

 

Would closing down Pine Gap be a proportionate response. No. But looking at the way 45 is acting, it may be difficult for the Australian Government to resist calls to take such action and more.

Completely agree.

I would like to see AUS take strong action to DT's antics. A quick jab to the nose might be the shock Trump needs, to realize his actions in these dealings need to differ from the way he yells at his contractors. Better to be smacked by an ally than an enemy.

[cncltd1973]

8 hours ago, Opl said:

"Even in conversations marred by hostile exchanges, Trump manages to work in references to his election accomplishments. U.S. officials said that he used his calls with Turnbull and Peña Nieto to mention his election win or the size of the crowd at his inauguration to depict his victory as an achievement of historic proportions... Trump’s position appears to reflect the transactional view he takes of relationships, even when it comes to diplomatic ties with long-standing allies. "

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-gday-mate-on-call-with-australian-pm-trump-badgers-and-brags/2017/02/01/88a3bfb0-e8bf-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpaustralia-815pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.72efb7737649

Delusional man with an inferiority complex that he counterbalances with alternative facts to bolster his ego. Delusional because he thinks people believe what he says over the facts given by his enemy - the media. Embarrassing that he tries his popularity propaganda on other world leaders, as if they'll believe him.

Gotta stock up on valium for the months to come - my nerves!

[cncltd1973]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I am no Trump fanboy - but I do support him. However, he certainly has a point about it being a lousy deal. Obama has stuck him with several of real stinkers and I can understand Trump's disgust. This one pales in comparison to some of the other stupid deals that he has been saddled with.

The problem is that Australia is a close ally and he needs to be more diplomatic. He was way over the top with the PM.

So far, I like what Trump is doing a lot more than I expected to, but also get very exasperated with some of his behaviour. 

The man has balls and he is doing exactly what he said that he would do, but can also be extremely petty about things that he should probably ignore.

The fact that he is being unfairly hounded by the liberal press and the democratic party and each and every move he makes is blown way out of proportion, gives him a lot of sympathy from the man on the street. I don't know anyone who had changed their mind about him. However, he needs to polish his political skills and quickly. The man could end up being a great president, but the jury is still out on overcoming his personal deficiencies.

The beginnings of sentiment! Might you be converting? I'll save a seat for you on this side. See you in a few months.

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Can always return all the refugees  back to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia or wherever else they were from. They tried to illegally ( and paid criminal people smugglers )   circumvent the correct procedure to gain entry to Australia. What about the thousands of people waiting patiently in their home countries who have applied in correct manner ? Why give these queue jumpers precedence ?

Why does the Western World have to shoulder the burden ? Plenty of safe developing countries with room to spare who could benefit. After all according to the media these people are all highly qualified and decent. The developing World should be welcoming them with open arms..

I imagine if you were in a Middle Eastern country invaded by the US and had had a few family members killed your entire town reduced to rubble by the ongoing destruction by others, and trying to keep your wife and 4 remaining children safe you would scrape together any money you could and pay any 'criminal people smugglers' to get you and your family the hell out of there and to safety. Easy though from your computer desk while you crack another tinny and order a pizza isn't it. The Western world should 'shoulder the burden' of any crap it kicks off in other sovereign nations. If we took that responsibility as a given then perhaps we would not go invading other countries and causing nothing but chaos.

 

The ONLY good that has ever come of the West's invasions is that US defence companies shares have rocketed along with a few very choice oil companies. 

[katana]

Seems a strange affair. Australia didn't want these 1000s of illegal immigrants so dumped them on an island offshore, some of them for years. Then they were foisted off on the USA with Obama agreeing to take them shortly before he left office, like a parting gift to Trump to sort out. Then when Trump moves to cancel it, the media are up in arms.

Edited February 2, 2017 by katana

[funandsuninbangkok]

11 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

The fact that he Tweets about such an important policy agreement with an Ally is a national disgrace. It is long overdue that Twitter should just ban all his accounts ! How do Trump supporters actually support this moron? It was in fact a REPUBLICAN agreement with Australia to accept the refugees, but will any of them stand up and say so? No, they are cowards through and through.

Hang on. 

 

Obama did this deal after the election and before President Trump took office. It's a real poop sandwich for a President who ran on stopping illegal immigrants.  Can't blame him for grumbling.   

 

Hell, Australia stuck these folks in the middle of no where, not Trump. 

 

I'm pretty sure most will never make it to the US. How do you say Quantanimo in Ozzy?

Edited February 2, 2017 by funandsuninbangkok

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, cncltd1973 said:

The beginnings of sentiment! Might you be converting? I'll save a seat for you on this side. See you in a few months.

Not the beginning at all. I have expressed the same sentiments long before he was elected and since. Certain posters refuse to believe that anyone who does not hate him obsessively can just give him the benefit of the doubt.

I actually like him better the more that he does now that he is power. That does not mean that I cannot see his negatives and he has plenty. The way that he treated a close ally is a legitimate example.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[simple1]

5 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Can always return all the refugees  back to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia or wherever else they were from. They tried to illegally ( and paid criminal people smugglers )   circumvent the correct procedure to gain entry to Australia. What about the thousands of people waiting patiently in their home countries who have applied in correct manner ? Why give these queue jumpers precedence ?

Why does the Western World have to shoulder the burden ? Plenty of safe developing countries with room to spare who could benefit. After all according to the media these people are all highly qualified and decent. The developing World should be welcoming them with open arms..

About time you got a few facts straight before commenting. Asylum seekers are not able to apply for refugee status from within their home country. Secondly refugees cannot just be returned to their own country, it is in breach of international law i.e. refoulement. Thirdly there is no such thing as a sequential queue for refugees to be resettled, it's a myth. Some countries will not accept refugees returned against their will e.g. Iran

Edited February 2, 2017 by simple1

[balo]

Trump is a troll trying to get as many enemies as possible until its game over and the troll will go back to the cave when America is out of control.

[stevenl]

According to Spicer he now has accepted the deal and will let these refugees in.

sent using Tapatalk

[NumbNut]

6 hours ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Yes. Queue Jumpers. The gall of these people. They must be executed at once. The anti-immigrant crowd can only find outrage at someone cutting in line and no outrage for the circumstances that drive them to this.

 

You do realize that all credible studies demonstrate that immigration has a net benefit to countries?

 

Australia is a country made from immigrants. Immigration continues to add to the Australian character.

 

And it is not 'illegal' to be a refugee.

[Thechook]

20 minutes ago, stevenl said:

According to Spicer he now has accepted the deal and will let these refugees in.

sent using Tapatalk
 

Not exactly.  He has agreed to take them for vetting and and this will take months.  If they dont pass the process then he doednt take them.  What's the odds they dont pass?  He has still kept his end of the agreement.

[craigt3365]

4 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

Completely agree.

I would like to see AUS take strong action to DT's antics. A quick jab to the nose might be the shock Trump needs, to realize his actions in these dealings need to differ from the way he yells at his contractors. Better to be smacked by an ally than an enemy.

I kinda agree, but sadly, it could escalate into a trade war and everybody gets hurt at that point.  Especially low income people.  It seems to be getting worse and worse with DT every passing day.

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I am no Trump fanboy - but I do support him. However, he certainly has a point about it being a lousy deal. Obama has stuck him with several of real stinkers and I can understand Trump's disgust. This one pales in comparison to some of the other stupid deals that he has been saddled with.

The problem is that Australia is a close ally and he needs to be more diplomatic. He was way over the top with the PM.

So far, I like what Trump is doing a lot more than I expected to, but also get very exasperated with some of his behaviour. 

The man has balls and he is doing exactly what he said that he would do, but can also be extremely petty about things that he should probably ignore.

The fact that he is being unfairly hounded by the liberal press and the democratic party and each and every move he makes is blown way out of proportion, gives him a lot of sympathy from the man on the street. I don't know anyone who had changed their mind about him. However, he needs to polish his political skills and quickly. The man could end up being a great president, but the jury is still out on overcoming his personal deficiencies.

I was going to click like on this until you said he is being unfairly hounded by the "liberal" press.  LOL.  Every media outlet is covering his BS.  If he want's better coverage from the media, stop telling lies, treat them with respect and get off Twitter!!!!! LOL  Trump is his own worst enemy.  Not the press.  He throws them softballs every day. LOL

 

I've changed my mind on him.  Right after the elections, I was in the camp of "lets give him a chance, and see how it works out.  It might turn out good!".  I'm no longer in that camp.  Due to his actions.  And based on his performance so far, there is no way he'll be a great president.  Impossible, even if he gets some things right.