Trump's refugee order triggers protests across Australia

[rooster59]

Trump's refugee order triggers protests across Australia

By Harry Pearl and Aaron Bunch

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Thousands of protesters rallied across Australia on Saturday condemning U.S. President Donald Trump's order temporarily barring refugees and nationals from seven countries and demanding an end to Australia's offshore detention of asylum seekers.

U.S. ties with Australia became strained on Thursday after details about an acrimonious phone call between Trump and Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull emerged and Trump said a deal between the two nations on refugee resettlement was "dumb."

About 1,000 people gathered in Sydney to protest against Trump’s executive order on immigration and to call on Australia to close its offshore processing centres on the tiny Pacific Island of Nauru and Manus Island in Papua New Guinea.

Similar protests were held in Canberra, Newcastle and Hobart, while hundreds attended an anti-Trump rally in Melbourne on Friday.

Under the "dumb deal", the United States would take up to 1,250 asylum seekers held on Nauru and Manus. In return, Australia would take refugees from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

Trump has begrudgingly said he planned to stand by the deal, but a source told Reuters on Friday U.S. immigration officials have postponed interviews with asylum seekers on Nauru.

In Sydney, protesters carried placards that said "Refugee torture, Australia's shame" and "No walls, no camps, no bans".

"Australia should not be trying to palm off people the government considers problems to the U.S.A. We have the solution here," protester Beverley Fine, 62, told Reuters.

Trump's executive order last week suspended the U.S. refugee program for 120 days and stopped visits by travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen for 90 days.

A U.S. federal judge on Friday put a nationwide block on Trump's executive order, although his administration could still have the policy put back into effect on appeal.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-04

 

[fred110]

That's funny because Australia is sending 1200 unwanted muslims to the US. Why not keep them?

[optad]

3 minutes ago, fred110 said:

That's funny because Australia is sending 1200 unwanted muslims to the US. Why not keep them?

It is held in australia that accepting refugees who arrive by boat encourages people trafficking and illict transport by boats. 

 

Refugees must apply offshore or arrive by air or largely rejected. It is politics.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, optad said:

It is held in australia that accepting refugees who arrive by boat encourages people trafficking and illict transport by boats. 

 

Refugees must apply offshore or arrive by air or largely rejected. It is politics.

 

Isn't this Australia who offered to pay traffickers to take boat loads of refugees back out somewhere else? Australia that wants to swap it's illegal migrant Muslim detainees for illegal Christian South American migrants detained in the US?

 

But hey, it's not so apparently politically correct to protest the Aussie government as it is Trump.

 

Ignore facts and reality, just protest what it's fashionable to.

[maoro2013]

Illegal immigrants are not wanted by most countries. Germany may be an exception or at least in the chancellor's opinion.

 

Do countries have borders? Yes. And they are mainly jealousy protected and right in my opinion.

[maoro2013]

Oh, I  omitted to ask,  are most of the protesters millenials who have been trained not to think?

[optad]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

Isn't this Australia who offered to pay traffickers to take boat loads of refugees back out somewhere else? Australia that wants to swap it's illegal migrant Muslim detainees for illegal Christian South American migrants detained in the US?

 

But hey, it's not so apparently politically correct to protest the Aussie government as it is Trump.

 

Ignore facts and reality, just protest what it's fashionable to.

I did not say i agreed with the policy. I fully endorse anyone that wants to criticise the facts, the alternate facts and add anything else that is bothering them while they are at it.

 

I will agree with them then complain to ..... .a write only forum because all responses are biased!

 

No. Seriously. Our immigration policies are not the best part of who we are.

[NumbNut]

It is not illegal to be a refugee.

[muffy]

Muslims to Muslim countries .

[Baerboxer]

9 minutes ago, optad said:

I did not say i agreed with the policy. I fully endorse anyone that wants to criticise the facts, the alternate facts and add anything else that is bothering them while they are at it.

 

I will agree with them then complain to ..... .a write only forum because all responses are biased!

 

No. Seriously. Our immigration policies are not the best part of who we are.

 

No, I don't think the current Australian government is representative of Australians - certainly not the ones I know on these issues.

 

But the point is these are anti Trump demonstrations, being orchestrated for a variety of reasons but all against Trump per se, not the actual issue they claim. Same in other countries.

[Baerboxer]

9 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

It is not illegal to be a refugee.

 

No it's not. But it is illegal to be an illegal economic immigrant paying traffickers to try and avoid lawful immigration procedures. Refugees must also follow the procedure of applying for asylum in the first safe country they arrive in - not cherry pick which gives the best benefits.

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

It is not illegal to be a refugee.

it's illegal for an asylum seeker to try and enter Oz by sea, contrary to international law, but not if arriving by air on a tourist visa then apply for asylum - thousands do so every year.

[optad]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

No, I don't think the current Australian government is representative of Australians - certainly not the ones I know on these issues.

 

But the point is these are anti Trump demonstrations, being orchestrated for a variety of reasons but all against Trump per se, not the actual issue they claim. Same in other countries.

Can't help you. I have read what you have. Did not mention anything about representative politics. You are pissed about something or maybe just always angry. If you want to have a crack I am good for it, just like to know the parametres first. 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No it's not. But it is illegal to be an illegal economic immigrant paying traffickers to try and avoid lawful immigration procedures. Refugees must also follow the procedure of applying for asylum in the first safe country they arrive in - not cherry pick which gives the best benefits.

Travelling from say Iran to Oz, don't believe there is one country signed up to UN Convention for Refugees, at the very least do not have the law / protocols in place for asylum seeker / refugee protection and processing for legal status / residency.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Travelling from say Iran to Oz, don't believe there is one country signed up to UN Convention for Refugees, at the very least do not have the law / protocols in place for asylum seeker / refugee protection and processing for legal status / residency.

Probably not one that provides all the generous benefits either.

[simple1]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Probably not one that provides all the generous benefits either.

 

If you're a refugee why would you stay in a country where you have no legal right to work, education access for your children etc etc etc BTW refugees in Oz do not have greater benefits than Centrelink recipients - fact versus fiction...

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AustGovAssistRefugees

[Thaidream]

While on the surface it appears that America is taking Australia's problems into America. However, a closer look will show that Australia has agreed to base almost 3,000 US troops on its territory and  support the American effort to defeat ISIS. In addition, Australia and the US have a long history of friendship and co-operation and Australians have fought alongside the American military and spilled blood.

For me, as an American, there is no reason why the US should not help ou Australia in settling refugees. They will be properly vetted and the small number will not even be noticeable in a country with America's population. 

I don't kow exactly what Trump said to the Australian PM but if the reports are correct- Trump Was not diplomatic and terminated the call before other issues could be discussed. This not the way an Ally should be treated . Trump should apologize but of course he won't.

Trump was lucky he didn't get the average Australian who probably would have told him to <deleted> Off and rightly so.

 

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

If you're a refugee why would you stay in a country where you have no legal right to work, education access for your children etc etc etc BTW refugees in Oz do not have greater benefits than Centrelink recipients - fact versus fiction...

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AustGovAssistRefugees

Like I said, generous benefits. Anyway, that door has been firmly closed unless you get in a queue like everyone else. BTW, refugees do go to the head of the queue when it comes to government housing, pushing past those who have been waiting years.

Edited February 4, 2017 by giddyup

[optad]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

While on the surface it appears that America is taking Australia's problems into America. However, a closer look will show that Australia has agreed to base almost 3,000 US troops on its territory and  support the American effort to defeat ISIS. In addition, Australia and the US have a long history of friendship and co-operation and Australians have fought alongside the American military and spilled blood.

For me, as an American, there is no reason why the US should not help ou Australia in settling refugees. They will be properly vetted and the small number will not even be noticeable in a country with America's population. 

I don't kow exactly what Trump said to the Australian PM but if the reports are correct- Trump Was not diplomatic and terminated the call before other issues could be discussed. This not the way an Ally should be treated . Trump should apologize but of course he won't.

Trump was lucky he didn't get the average Australian who probably would have told him to F. Off and rightly so.

 

This is about right. There was no issue here at all until Trump drew so attention to the deal. It was a number swap in America's favor but politically it gave the Turnbull government great capital to extract itself from a difficult if uneasy ethically position on domestic refugee arrivals and detention. Obama did Turnbull a political favor but Trump has so badly unravelled a win win in every sense but put much else on the line. Certainly his unpredictability regarding alliances is a focus now. I personally view this as good thing. 

 

Re passage from home country as simple1 mentions, almost all are 'transit' countries without recourse or status to the UNHCR otherwise australia would accept the boats and repatriate those refugees to that signatory country they left and did not request asylum. 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Like I said, generous benefits. Anyway, that door has been firmly closed unless you get in a queue like everyone else.

You really appear to have zero empathy - let me ask you if you were an Iranian suffering persecution for your faith. threats of death etc, e.g. Bahá'ís  would you want to stay in a refugee camp in Pakistan (potentially stuck for decades), no work, no education, poor medical care and so on or risk trying to get to a country of opportunity; I know what I would try to do rather than rotting in a camp in Pakistan without hope.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

You really appear to have zero empathy - let me ask you if you were an Iranian suffering persecution for your faith. threats of death etc, e.g. Bahá'ís  would you want to stay in a refugee camp in Pakistan (potentially stuck for decades), no work, no education, poor medical care and so on or risk trying to get to a country of opportunity; I know what I would try to do rather than rotting in a camp in Pakistan without hope.

Why don't we just open our doors to the huddled masses? The world is now a place of never-ending conflicts, failed states, ruthless dictators etc, there are millions who want to escape this misery, but the countries that have developed good infrastructures, standards of living, and generous welfare have a right to protect all they have worked for. It's the old story, if you don't throw your borders open you have no empathy, but if there was a very personal cost involved, like loss of employment, reduction in welfare payments, higher taxes, higher crime rate etc, I wonder how many would be so magnanimous then.

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Like I said, generous benefits. Anyway, that door has been firmly closed unless you get in a queue like everyone else. BTW, refugees do go to the head of the queue when it comes to government housing, pushing past those who have been waiting years.

That is a matter of government under funding of public housing, not the refugee's fault. To repeat what's been stated in other topics, it's a lie perpetuated by politicians & others that there is an orderly queue for resettlement - as amply demonstrated by the challenges presented by the Trump Administration.

[Thaidream]

The whole refugee issue is quite complicated but I do believe that the Syran refugees should firstly be resettled in the Middle East.No reason why Saudia Arabia; The Emirates; Jordan and Egypt cannot do more in accepting them or providing funding for safe zones in othe countries.

[giddyup]

Just now, simple1 said:

That is a matter of government under funding of public housing, not the refugee's fault. To repeat what's been stated in other topics, it's a lie perpetuated by politicians & others that there is an orderly queue for resettlement - as amply demonstrated by the challenges presented by the Trump Administration.

Nevertheless, if you had been on the waiting list for several years and an illegal refugee took a house as soon as he set foot in Australia, how would you feel? It's very easy to be generous when there is no personal cost involved. Have a look what Australias refugee intake is a year before you mouth off. Perhaps sponsor a family to move in with you. Yeah right.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The whole refugee issue is quite complicated but I do believe that the Syran refugees should firstly be resettled in the Middle East.No reason why Saudia Arabia; The Emirates; Jordan and Egypt cannot do more in accepting them or providing funding for safe zones in othe countries.

I never see any criticism levelled at Japan either for their paltry intake of 27, but they have every right to say who is allowed in as does Australia.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The whole refugee issue is quite complicated but I do believe that the Syran refugees should firstly be resettled in the Middle East.No reason why Saudia Arabia; The Emirates; Jordan and Egypt cannot do more in accepting them or providing funding for safe zones in othe countries.

Gulf States Response to Syrian Refugee Crisis – A Myth Debunked

http://www.opensourceinvestigations.com/syria/gulf-states-response-to-syrian-refugee-crisis-a-myth-debunked/

[optad]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Why don't we just open our doors to the huddled masses? The world is now a place of never-ending conflicts, failed states, ruthless dictators etc, there are millions who want to escape this misery, but the countries that have developed good infrastructures, standards of living, and generous welfare have a right to protect all they have worked for. It's the old story, if you don't throw your borders open you have no empathy, but if there was a very personal cost involved, like loss of employment, reduction in welfare payments, higher taxes, higher crime rate etc, I wonder how many would be so magnanimous then.

I never thought coherence was a skill but re reading my posts i wonder occasionally. Reading yours confirms my worst fears, it needs to be taught, acquired, practiced. Emotion does not alphabetise well.

 

I understand many Australians do not like changes to the demography they grew up amongst. But every generation has experienced this. Like America , Australia is an immigrant country, your parents or a generation before probably are too. Mine were. Most critics forget this small point. 

 

The conflation of muslims and refugees is really the ugliness in the topic because too much is hidden in the fear factor of what anglo australians do not know yet also fear. It is a shame because i think i could introduce you to many people and you would get along famously. Why? Because of the great values we share. THese should be positive stories.This simple little activity is true for so many who just have not experienced difference.

 

[optad]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Nevertheless, if you had been on the waiting list for several years and an illegal refugee took a house as soon as he set foot in Australia, how would you feel? It's very easy to be generous when there is no personal cost involved. Have a look what Australias refugee intake is a year before you mouth off. Perhaps sponsor a family to move in with you. Yeah right.

As parents, we have simple obligations and singular focus. As nation states it get a bit messier with so many, and at times, conflicting obligations. Australia has signed a number of charters and international conventions which oblige us at times to be other than what another poster described as "unrepresentative". THe cost of democracy and being better. 

[giddyup]

Just now, optad said:

I never thought coherence was a skill but re reading my posts i wonder occasionally. Reading yours confirms my worst fears, it needs to be taught, acquired, practiced. Emotion does not alphabetise well.

 

I understand many Australians do not like changes to the demography they grew up amongst. But every generation has experienced this. Like America , Australia is an immigrant country, your parents or a generation before probably are too. Mine were. Most critics forget this small point. 

 

The conflation of muslims and refugees is really the ugliness in the topic because too much is hidden in the fear factor of what anglo australians do not know yet also fear. It is a shame because i think i could introduce you to many people and you would get along famously. Why? Because of the great values we share. THese should be positive stories.This simple little activity is true for so many who just have not experienced difference.

 

Do you know what's been happening in Melbourne with the Somali gangs? Is it any wonder Australians are nervous about importing people from these cultures, and we only have to see the disasters that are happening in Sweden France and Germany due to refugees, why would we want to go down this same road? I hopefully won't be around to see the end results, but I'm sure there will be a lot of people asking"why didn't they see this coming"?

[dunroaming]

Australia is not anti-American.  It is anti-Trump and his lunacy.  Just like the rest of the world.