Complicated life! Thai girlfriend twice denied UK visa, now married, next step?

[rasg]

Only telling you about our experience. I had no need to throw my weight around as we never had an issue with my wife's applications.

[zoza]

3 minutes ago, rasg said:

Only telling you about our experience. I had no need to throw my weight around as we never had an issue with my wife's applications.

no you said that is not possible, as if you knew what happened, when clearly you have no idea of what goes on. 

Quote

 

 

[MarkGB]

6 hours ago, rasg said:

Why? Most people will give help to somebody who wants it. We have all been there at some some or other.

Just a lot of information to sift through. Think I have a clearer plan now. Appreciative of all the contributions here. 

[ronaldo0]

3 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

 

So you didn't fill out the form correctly and you wonder why you were refused? 

 

 

RAZZ

Alas you are wrong . The form was filled out correct but due to the bank not being able to supply more statements for another week and the appointment being before then it was not possible to get them.

No wondering . If you read properly it says why they said they refused her !! NOT ENOUGH BANK STATEMENTS !!

[ThaiVisaExpress]

10 hours ago, MarkGB said:

Thank you, Tony. What about for a settlement visa? 

No visa, no fee.   You pay the UKVI fees before the application is submitted.  Have a look a the website - click on the avatar on the left here.  

 

Tony M 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Alas you are wrong . The form was filled out correct but due to the bank not being able to supply more statements for another week and the appointment being before then it was not possible to get them.

No wondering . If you read properly it says why they said they refused her !! NOT ENOUGH BANK STATEMENTS !!

There must have been more to it than that. I have done 5 UK visitor visa applications for my wife in the last 6 years and at no time has she supplied a financial document of any form whatsoever.

[ronaldo0]

20 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There must have been more to it than that. I have done 5 UK visitor visa applications for my wife in the last 6 years and at no time has she supplied a financial document of any form whatsoever.

The woman who called my wife said this was the only reason and told her try again once she had the 6 months statements .

[4MyEgo]

On 11/02/2017 at 3:49 AM, MarkGB said:

Thank you very much for the appreciated replies. It seems to be as I suspected... a long road ahead! Attached is the latest refusal letter, but it's inaccurate in a few ways and felt like a skimmed, rubber-stamped 'no'. I have always said I will pay for all costs (full bank statements, pay slips, home ownership in London etc proved this is possible) but for some strange reason that become 'some' in the second refusal. Also 'a number of discrepancies' on employment was really one Jomtien and not Pattaya in the phone call on the first visa 'no' (there was no call for the second visa though she waited by the phone every morning). She has had a job in two family markets and for a trading company that went bust, but since I came to be with her has stayed with me, outside of working in the market with her dad.

 

We were friends from late 2012, but again postmarked envelopes from the UK when we were not a couple were ignored. A relationship was only claimed since March 2015 as before we were casual friends. There seems to be a bemusing assumption of criminality or wrong-doing which would mean (A) I was faking 100s of photographs and spending thousands of pounds in travel before I initiate my evil masterplan or (B) she is planning to channel her inner Usain Bolt and sprint out of Heathrow Airport to pluck £50 notes off an English money tree. Essentially, they only want Thai people from wealthy families to travel? It does feel a bit prejudiced. She can, of course, get a job, but how many (non market) employers allow staff to visit England for weeks/months? 

Yup, sounds like a standard government bureaucrat who can't see past his big nose. You need to address the outlined, i.e. tick the boxes they want you to tick, they don't know any other way (blinkers), forget about "Jomtien", personally I think there maybe more than you are being told from her side, I say that respectfully, e.g. has she ever done a runner before, i.e. has she ever stayed in another country for a longer period than applied for and granted, checking her passport would answer that, (apologies for being so blunt), but once that is clarified you can move forward, (check), next, and I am sure that in Oz, if you couldn't stack it all up for the visa, you could lodge a bond, but if she does do a runner, you can kiss that good by, wish you the best of luck in the stressful situation your both in, on a lighter note, failing all of the above one could try refugee status, why not, ever other cat, dog, and mus has/is 555  

Edited February 13, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

On 11/02/2017 at 4:26 PM, nongsangcity said:

why not apply for a visa to live with you in england....if you are husband and wife  dont be applying for 6 months visas.....my Thia partner was also turned down twice trying for 6 mths visas...we we got married we applied again for stelement visa and it was 3rd time lucky.....good luck...nothing is easy these days mind you saying that my wifes first refusal was back in 2004...

I think things have chained since you married, i.e. tightening of policies.

[sandyf]

30 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

The woman who called my wife said this was the only reason and told her try again once she had the 6 months statements .

As bank statements are not a mandatory requirement there must have been something in the application that made them insist on them being provided.

In all the applications I have made I have claimed full financial responsibility and it has never been a problem. Individual circumstances come into play and the fact I live in Thailand is quite significant.

[ronaldo0]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

As bank statements are not a mandatory requirement there must have been something in the application that made them insist on them being provided.

In all the applications I have made I have claimed full financial responsibility and it has never been a problem. Individual circumstances come into play and the fact I live in Thailand is quite significant.

I also had pointed out all off the costs were being paid by myself. I provided proof off bank with over 100k in it , house paid in full with zero debt.

[sandyf]

54 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

I also had pointed out all off the costs were being paid by myself. I provided proof off bank with over 100k in it , house paid in full with zero debt.

You have obviously got a lot more money than I have so is there a question mark over your circumstances or the amount of time you spend in Thailand. Reason to return is the most predominant factor and the weaker that is the more information may be required.

Someone who has most or their assets and/or spends most of their time in the UK effectively puts a wife in a similar position to a girlfriend.

[jerome2]

No way to do visa exept being married .After they cannot say no ... normaly

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[7by7]

 

10 hours ago, MarkGB said:

Just a lot of information to sift through. Think I have a clearer plan now. Appreciative of all the contributions here. 

 

Indeed, and you should concentrate on the posts offering advice; ignore those just complaining about their own refusals and those posting about countries other than the UK.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, jerome2 said:

No way to do visa exept being married .After they cannot say no ... normaly

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 Utter rubbish.

[rasg]

On 11/02/2017 at 5:26 AM, nongsangcity said:

why not apply for a visa to live with you in england....if you are husband and wife  dont be applying for 6 months visas.....my Thia partner was also turned down twice trying for 6 mths visas...we we got married we applied again for stelement visa and it was 3rd time lucky.....good luck...nothing is easy these days mind you saying that my wifes first refusal was back in 2004...

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I think things have chained since you married, i.e. tightening of policies.

With a settlement visa things are very different for a visit visa. You don't have to provide a reason to return.

 

Having said that they do seem to have tightened things up on visit visas recently. I think requesting a three month is way too long for a first Visit visa. If somebody has a job, UKVI don't believe that almost any employer would allow a member of their staff 3 months off work. Thai people don't even seem to get annual leave. Three months was stretching it and was a big contribution to the reasons of refusal although it probably wasn't mentioned

 

With my wife's first VV we requested a month. Of course she received the usual six months multi entry and on that first trip she stayed 14 weeks. On the next VV application I explained that she had been laid off work because of the flooding and huge downturn of business as a result and they granted her a two year VV with no problems. I also explained that by then I was financially supporting her. It also helped that she had flown to the UK and returned to Thailand at the end of her trip.

I has seen a few refusal notices over the couple of months where the ECO has refused a VV because a boyfriend is financially supporting the girlfriend. The woman hasn't demonstrated that she has the financial means to support herself without the boyfriend's money that is sent every month. It's a difficult one to argue against.

 

For my, now wife's, first VV we didn’t supply her bank statements at all pointing out that she was paid in cash and that much of the money was spent before it ever even saw a bank account. What I did supply was a breakdown of her incomings and outgoings. Her income, the money she paid on apartment rent, the amount she sent home for her son and father each month etc etc.

 

Whatever the contributing factors were to her getting the first visit visa it worked and it has worked for four consecutive visas in less than two years. We never received a single phone call to clarify anything for any of my wife's visas.

 

If anybody wants a copy of my sponsor statements you are welcome to PDF's of them. They might provide somebody with a starting point. Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send them.

Edited February 13, 2017 by rasg

[7by7]

19 hours ago, MarkGB said:

So it seems a settlement visa is the way to go - the last visa company [name removed] said there was no chance of a settlement visa without a tourist visa first. What else is required? The usual proof of relationship and anything else? Thanks again.

 

As theoldgit has already said, there is no requirement for a settlement applicant to have visited the UK first; some do, many, like my wife, don't.

 

Briefly, for a settlement visa your wife needs to provide:-

 

A signed hard copy of the online application form.

 

Her current passport, with a blank page, and any previous passports.

 

Evidence that she has at least A1 of the CEFR in English speaking and listening, obtained from a UKVI approved provider; the ones in Thailand are on page 13.

 

A TB certificate obtained from the IoM in Bangkok.

 

Your marriage certificate, with a certified English translation. Any reputable translator should now the format required.

 

Evidence that your relationship is genuine and subsisting; as you say, the 'usual proof of relationship.'

 

Evidence of her accommodation once in the UK. As she will be living with you, obviously, then a simple letter from you describing your property, how many rooms and who else, if anyone, lives there should suffice. If you own the property then evidence of this, such as a mortgage statement, can also help. If you rent, then a letter from your landlord confirming you are the tenant and that they have no objection to her living there can help.

 

A completed financial appendix form, together with the required evidence that the financial requirement is met; the evidence required depends upon how you are meeting it.

 

For more details, see the guide to supporting documents and Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence.

 

As part of the online application, she (or you) will need to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge. This is currently £200 p.a., rounded up to the next 6 months. As her initial visa will be valid for 33 months, this means she will have to pay for 3 years, i.e. £600.  If her application is refused, this money will be refunded.

 

See Apply to join family living permanently in the UK for more details and how to apply.

 

Although it's in need of updating, you may also find the pinned topic UK settlement visa basics helpful.

 

 

 

 

[ronaldo0]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You have obviously got a lot more money than I have so is there a question mark over your circumstances or the amount of time you spend in Thailand. Reason to return is the most predominant factor and the weaker that is the more information may be required.

Someone who has most or their assets and/or spends most of their time in the UK effectively puts a wife in a similar position to a girlfriend.

Most off my assets were in Thailand and I had practically moved here. We owned 3 houses here and a car also. One house was in my company name , one was in a different company that my wife and I owned and one house and the car was in her name only. This I pointed out on appeal when they said they did not think she would return to here. We supplied all details off property and car she owned in her name all paid for when applying yet they said she had no reason to return !!

[rasg]

9 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

Most off my assets were in Thailand and I had practically moved here. We owned 3 houses here and a car also. One house was in my company name , one was in a different company that my wife and I owned and one house and the car was in her name only. This I pointed out on appeal when they said they did not think she would return to here. We supplied all details off property and car she owned in her name all paid for when applying yet they said she had no reason to return !!

Whichever way you slice it there was something wrong with the application that the ECO didn’t like. Maybe you sent too much information? Letters from people at your wedding, details about owning a car in Thailand etc. None of that matters that much to them. Land, property etc, yes. Marriage certificate with an English translation etc etc. I have always supplied an index page for each visa application that is a "map" to all of the relevant bits of the visa. I split the application into three folders. 1) Sponsor info. 2) Proof of relationship. 3) Applicant information. A label on each folder with the application number, name of applicant and the heading of the contents.

[ronaldo0]

7 minutes ago, rasg said:

Whichever way you slice it there was something wrong with the application that the ECO didn’t like. Maybe you sent too much information? Letters from people at your wedding, details about owning a car in Thailand etc. None of that matters that much to them. Land, property etc, yes. Marriage certificate with an English translation etc etc. I have always supplied an index page for each visa application that is a "map" to all of the relevant bits of the visa. I split the application into three folders. 1) Sponsor info. 2) Proof of relationship. 3) Applicant information. A label on each folder with the application number, name of applicant and the heading of the contents.

Yeah it could have been too much info. I have a folder with separate sections ready and waiting until I apply next time.

[rasg]

41 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

As theoldgit has already said, there is no requirement for a settlement applicant to have visited the UK first; some do, many, like my wife, don't.

 

Briefly, for a settlement visa your wife needs to provide:-

 

A signed hard copy of the online application form.

 

Her current passport, with a blank page, and any previous passports.

 

Evidence that she has at least A1 of the CEFR in English speaking and listening, obtained from a UKVI approved provider; the ones in Thailand are on page 13.

 

A TB certificate obtained from the IoM in Bangkok.

 

Your marriage certificate, with a certified English translation. Any reputable translator should now the format required.

 

Evidence that your relationship is genuine and subsisting; as you say, the 'usual proof of relationship.'

 

Evidence of her accommodation once in the UK. As she will be living with you, obviously, then a simple letter from you describing your property, how many rooms and who else, if anyone, lives there should suffice. If you own the property then evidence of this, such as a mortgage statement, can also help. If you rent, then a letter from your landlord confirming you are the tenant and that they have no objection to her living there can help.

 

A completed financial appendix form, together with the required evidence that the financial requirement is met; the evidence required depends upon how you are meeting it.

 

For more details, see the guide to supporting documents and Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence.

 

As part of the online application, she (or you) will need to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge. This is currently £200 p.a., rounded up to the next 6 months. As her initial visa will be valid for 33 months, this means she will have to pay for 3 years, i.e. £600.  If her application is refused, this money will be refunded.

 

See Apply to join family living permanently in the UK for more details and how to apply.

 

Although it's in need of updating, you may also find the pinned topic UK settlement visa basics helpful.

 

 

 

 

A couple of small additions to this that might help you.

 

TB test. Book an early appointment and leave a day between the TB test and the appointment for VFS if you can. When you go to the IOM building and register, you then have to go to a local hospital for the XRay. Some people need more than one and you then have to go back to the IOM building to pick up the TB certificate if all is ok. My wife finally picked hers up after 4.00 pm and I think she had a 10.00 am appointment. They also sent her to the Christian hospital which was only a few hundred metres away from IOM.

 

Language test. If your wife's English is good enough, rather than take A1, go for A2. The Government recently upped the language requirements and A2 will carry your wife through FLR if they don't change things again. At £150 a pop it's a useful saving.

 

Immigration Health Surcharge.  You need to pay this before you complete the application and book an appointment.

 

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

A couple of small additions to this that might help you.
 
TB test. Book an early appointment and leave a day between the TB test and the appointment for VFS if you can. When you go to the IOM building and register, you then have to go to a local hospital for the XRay. Some people need more than one and you then have to go back to the IOM building to pick up the TB certificate if all is ok. My wife finally picked hers up after 4.00 pm and I think she had a 10.00 am appointment. They also sent her to the Christian hospital which was only a few hundred metres away from IOM.
 
Language test. If your wife's English is good enough, rather than take A1, go for A2. The Government recently upped the language requirements and A2 will carry your wife through FLR if they don't change things again. At £150 a pop it's a useful saving.
 
Immigration Health Surcharge.  You need to pay this before you complete the application and book an appointment.
 
 
 

Which tests are available in Thailand that meet the A2 requirement. IELTS Life Skills is only for A1 and B1, but maybe there are alternatives.

[cliveshep]

When we lived in the UK my wife was told about free English lessons that would after test at the end of each term give her A2, and so on. The qualifications she gained at these one-day-a-week classes were acceptable to the UK erks. This was in Camberley College although not run by them but financed by the local council. Later the council stopped it for lack of money although by then she had level 3 and certificates. So it is worth asking around to see if your wife can attend free English classes somewhere. With all the migrants pouring in I suspect there will now be classes that are free as most of the migrants won't have jobs.

 

The TB X-ray showed she had a shadow on her lungs they said, she had to go along and cough sputum into a cup on 3 separate occasions which tested inconclusive. However, because they couldn't prove it they set it aside and after we got to Heathrow the Port Medical Officer took the x-ray I had paid for.  We never did see it again.

 

They then made arrangements for her to attend a clinic at a hospital some miles from where we lived for a special blood test as a condition of entry. When we went the badly trained male nurse had 3 or 4 goes at finding a vein, couldn't, bruised her arm quite badly and, facing me very angry threatening compensation claims did what they should have done in the first place which was refer her to another hospital - in this case our own local hospital Frimley Park. The Staff Nurse there competently took a blood sample, did the tests and later they advised that she had "sleeping TB" and put her on a course of pills for 3 months. When we were in Bangkok the blood tests were not available in Thailand - this was 2011. 3 months later another x-ray gave the all clear.

 

One thing you can do in your "sponsorship" of your wife regards your home, the Local Authority will for a small fee come and inspect it for Immigration purposes and give you a couple of copies of a letter advising suitability. Part of your evidence there.

 

We have been here about 18 months, arriving October 2015. Up until then you had to apply every two years for a visa extension for your wife, FLR - further leave to remain, which cost an eye-watering £800. All the same old rubbish still applied, home, financial details etc. BUT if you could get her to take and pass the "Life in the UK" test she could apply for indefinite stay and later citizenship. Good luck with that as it is designed for failure, Doctors, lawyers, university Professors all failed it, how many golf-courses in Scotland was one of the stupid questions. However, some of my friend's wives made it and passed, you can buy the books but watch out because they change them often as the intention is that no-one passes if possible so make sure you buy the latest editions.

 

We got stuffed because I retired and the income fell away, had she passed Life in the UK it would not have been an issue but she felt she could not do it successfully so we sold up and came here.

 

 

[rasg]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Which tests are available in Thailand that meet the A2 requirement. IELTS Life Skills is only for A1 and B1, but maybe there are alternatives.

I have no idea. My wife took hers in Hammersmith before she went back to Bangkok to apply for Settlement.

[rasg]

46 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

When we lived in the UK my wife was told about free English lessons that would after test at the end of each term give her A2, and so on. The qualifications she gained at these one-day-a-week classes were acceptable to the UK erks. This was in Camberley College although not run by them but financed by the local council. Later the council stopped it for lack of money although by then she had level 3 and certificates. So it is worth asking around to see if your wife can attend free English classes somewhere. With all the migrants pouring in I suspect there will now be classes that are free as most of the migrants won't have jobs.

 

The TB X-ray showed she had a shadow on her lungs they said, she had to go along and cough sputum into a cup on 3 separate occasions which tested inconclusive. However, because they couldn't prove it they set it aside and after we got to Heathrow the Port Medical Officer took the x-ray I had paid for.  We never did see it again.

 

They then made arrangements for her to attend a clinic at a hospital some miles from where we lived for a special blood test as a condition of entry. When we went the badly trained male nurse had 3 or 4 goes at finding a vein, couldn't, bruised her arm quite badly and, facing me very angry threatening compensation claims did what they should have done in the first place which was refer her to another hospital - in this case our own local hospital Frimley Park. The Staff Nurse there competently took a blood sample, did the tests and later they advised that she had "sleeping TB" and put her on a course of pills for 3 months. When we were in Bangkok the blood tests were not available in Thailand - this was 2011. 3 months later another x-ray gave the all clear.

 

One thing you can do in your "sponsorship" of your wife regards your home, the Local Authority will for a small fee come and inspect it for Immigration purposes and give you a couple of copies of a letter advising suitability. Part of your evidence there.

 

We have been here about 18 months, arriving October 2015. Up until then you had to apply every two years for a visa extension for your wife, FLR - further leave to remain, which cost an eye-watering £800. All the same old rubbish still applied, home, financial details etc. BUT if you could get her to take and pass the "Life in the UK" test she could apply for indefinite stay and later citizenship. Good luck with that as it is designed for failure, Doctors, lawyers, university Professors all failed it, how many golf-courses in Scotland was one of the stupid questions. However, some of my friend's wives made it and passed, you can buy the books but watch out because they change them often as the intention is that no-one passes if possible so make sure you buy the latest editions.

 

We got stuffed because I retired and the income fell away, had she passed Life in the UK it would not have been an issue but she felt she could not do it successfully so we sold up and came here.

 

 

You try and get on the free courses here now. My wife went for an assessment a few weeks ago after we were informed that the next courses started in September and you couldn’t reserve one. First come, first served.

 

The house inspection idea sounds like a way for Local Authorities to make a few extra ££££s. It's not necessary unless the house is full of people. 

 

Somebody posted the latest book as a PDF on here last week in English and Thai which is already proving to very useful for my wife. Many people born in the UK would fail it. It's essentially history, geography and politics all rolled into single test. She has plenty of time to learn as she doesn’t need to for five years and she loves our history and the politics. She just needs to really brush up on the geography.

Edited February 13, 2017 by rasg

[cliveshep]

What we found was it changed twice a year so learn all the answers to current questions and find they change the books and therefore the questions. All this crap was brought about by Theresa May when she was Home Secretary trying to stop or reduce immigration. The EU was a no-no unless we had Brexit - not on the cards at the time and a distant dream for UKIP, so only UNI students from abroad non-EU countries, non-EU family members of Brit citizens or those already settled here, non-EU fiancées of Brits etc were the logical targets. Ways to achieve this were draconian - up the fees for a start, a fiancée visa costs the same as a 2 year FLR as I found out, up the spouse visa fees, up the fees for the English speaking and listening and TB tests, raise the financial threshold of income from Income Support levels to above National Average income levels because that'll stop loads of applications.

 

To ward off cries of "Human Right to Family Life" and subsequent appeals they have now I believe legislated that part of the act out of the equation so you cannot successfully appeal on those grounds.

 

We don't just need Brexit, we need a complete new Government really.

[rasg]

7 minutes ago, cliveshep said:

Ways to achieve this were draconian - up the fees for a start, a fiancée visa costs the same as a 2 year FLR as I found out, up the spouse visa fees, up the fees for the English speaking and listening and TB tests, raise the financial threshold of income from Income Support levels to above National Average income levels because that'll stop loads of applications.

 

To ward off cries of "Human Right to Family Life" and subsequent appeals they have now I believe legislated that part of the act out of the equation so you cannot successfully appeal on those grounds.

 

We don't just need Brexit, we need a complete new Government really.

Not quite as you now have to pay the NHS surcharge to go with FLR. That added £500 to it for my wife. Visas of six months or less don't have an NHS surcharge.

 

The problem is that the people voting for Brexit wanted the number of immigrants to fall. A lot. New Government? Somehow I doubt it any time soon. Can you imagine Jeremy Corbyn in charge? He couldn't run a whelk stall...

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by rasg

[bobrussell]

Topic drifting but there have only been three editions of the Life in the UK handbook. Of course the questions will change (as they do with any test) to ensure people are tested on knowledge rather than learning the answers.

The idea behind the test was to ensure everyone settling in the UK had at least a basic level of English skills. Also to ease integration.

 

Very few councils offer free English tests to new arrivals. It has to come out of their tight budgets.

 

My wife had to pay years ago and subsidies were removed soon after.

[brewsterbudgen]

I have no idea. My wife took hers in Hammersmith before she went back to Bangkok to apply for Settlement.

I don't think it's available in Thailand; at least not from IDP or the British Council who provide the IELTS Life Skills A1 and B1 tests.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[rasg]

12 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

The idea behind the test was to ensure everyone settling in the UK had at least a basic level of English skills. Also to ease integration.

I understand the idea but it is a lot more than basic English.

 

9 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I don't think it's available in Thailand; at least not from IDP or the British Council who provide the IELTS Life Skills A1 and B1 tests.

From what I can see it is nothing more than a slightly more difficult A1. I watched a bit of one on the Trinity college channel on YouTube a few weeks ago. It's just a new way or squeezing every last drop of cash out of applicants in this case. Before the announcement late last year anybody currently on FLR was happy in the knowledge that they didn’t need to take another test until ILR. Then the Government moved the goalposts... Another £150. If I can get the wife genned up on the B1 it makes sense to go for it. A lot to learn though.