Trump blasts 'criminal' leaks by intelligence agencies, calls Flynn 'wonderful'

[Skywalker69]

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

I dont get that anybody believes a single word that Trump or his associates say !

I can't respect or trust trump about anything. EVER. 

Every time I hear him open his mouth or post another one of his totally insane twitter TROLL rants, I remember the YEARS that he led the racist "birther" movement. The man is a total con man sleazeball unworthy of holding any political office, much less the presidency. 

The ascendancy of this horror show demagogue is surely one of the greatest threats to the very core of American democracy in history. Tragically, the odds are pretty good he will destroy it before the resistance can stop him. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[BKKBodhisattva]

Honestly, the odds of this clown lasting two years before impeachment have just ticked down again.

Gaffe after gaffe after gaffe

A monumental embarrassment

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, BKKBodhisattva said:

Honestly, the odds of this clown lasting two years before impeachment have just ticked down again.

Gaffe after gaffe after gaffe

A monumental embarrassment

I wish I could be that optimistic. Who is going to impeach him? The republican majority congress? His racist attorney general has the power to stop any serious investigations. The best hope is a blow away wave in the midterm elections. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[hdkane]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I agree with Berkshire.

 

Trump's MO is never to appear weak, never to admit he is wrong about anything, value personal loyalty to him above everything else and always attack any criticism by taking it personally and insulting the journalist/source.

 

So here we have Trump both implicated and implicitely criticised in Flynn's bad behaviour. The implication of Trump (What did Trump know? What did Trump tell Flynn to do?) means Flynn had to take the fall for Trump. The "sacking" of Flynn means Trump's initial judgement is called into question (that's the implied criticism). Trump cannot admit he was wrong so he has to attack the intelligence community whilst praising Flynn even though he sacked Flynn.

 

A paradox as detailed above is never a problem for an inveterate liar such as Trump.

For me, and perhaps you as well, I'm a bit taken aback that the intelligence community is working to take down the president...the fact that they can act with impunity is disturbing...and reminds me of the KGB...Trump has no friends in the legislature, and surely he would be impeached when the evidence presents itself...

[craigt3365]

6 minutes ago, hdkane said:

For me, and perhaps you as well, I'm a bit taken aback that the intelligence community is working to take down the president...the fact that they can act with impunity is disturbing...and reminds me of the KGB...Trump has no friends in the legislature, and surely he would be impeached when the evidence presents itself...

That's what their job is.  To protect the US.  Not just the president.  If the president committed an illegal act, he should be prosecuted.  Hopefully, Trump knew nothing.  If he did, it's going to be a rough stretch...

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, kevkev1888 said:

 

America's own intelligence agencies are leaking information to try to bring down the elected President. Treason indeed!

America's intelligence agencies aren't the only ones who have access to the Flynn call transcripts. US allies have said they too have intercepted the calls and no doubt the Russians have their own set of the transcripts. Given China's propensity to hack anything American, they too probably have their own set as well. And I wouldn't put it by Flynn himself to have recorded his calls as insurance.

So potential leakers abound. But It seems only the American public doesn't have access to the call transcripts.

PS: Unless the information was classified "confidential or secret" by the US intelligence agencies, leaking the information wouldn't be a crime.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

When do the impeachment proceedings start?

There is a concerted effort to get Trump removed from office and to stop the damage he is inflicting on the USA and beyond.  This will continue because it has to, this moron must be stopped.

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, Srikcir said:

America's intelligence agencies aren't the only ones who have access to the Flynn call transcripts. US allies have said they too have intercepted the calls and no doubt the Russians have their own set of the transcripts. Given China's propensity to hack anything American, they too probably have their own set as well. And I wouldn't put it by Flynn himself to have recorded his calls as insurance.

So potential leakers abound. But It seems only the American public doesn't have access to the call transcripts.

PS: Unless the information was classified "confidential or secret" by the US intelligence agencies, leaking the information wouldn't be a crime.

 

I think this was probably the message Ms. Yates delivered (before being fired, albeit for a separate issue) in that other country's intelligence service have this information, collected independently of the U.S., and could/would use it to flip (blackmail) Flynn, and others.

 

I think people are quick to lay the blame of leaks on the U.S.'s own intelligence services, perhaps in a paranoid way, because they are looking for someone to blame for this, and other fiascos.

 

It may be a fine line, but without a 'deep throat' things could be a lot worse. Better to have more information - assuming it's real and accurate - than less, I think.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

There is a concerted effort to get Trump removed from office and to stop the damage he is inflicting on the USA and beyond.  This will continue because it has to, this moron must be stopped.

Yes of course but my take is this going to be a long, hard road with no assurance of success. Yes, tragically, there is even a chance he could rule for eight years. Or more. 

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes of course but my take is this going to be a long, hard road with no assurance of success. Yes, tragically, there is even a chance he could rule for eight years. Or more. 

I can't believe that he will last a year (at most).

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I can't believe that he will last a year (at most).

The sooner he can possibly be dumped the better, of course, but I'm trying to be realistic. The POTUS is a very powerful office and the congress loves they can get some long term goals through now, such as degrading Medicare and Social Security. Don't underestimate the appeal of power or the resistance against losing it. Of course they can still do those things under Pence, so the right wing republicans feeling trump is an insanity bridge too far may be able to have their cake and eat it too.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[dunroaming]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The sooner he can possibly be dumped the better, of course, but I'm trying to be realistic. The POTUS is a very powerful office and the congress loves they can get some long term goals through now, such as degrading Medicare and Social Security. Don't underestimate the appeal of power or the resistance against losing it. Of course they can still do those things under Pence, so the right wing republicans feeling trump is an insanity bridge too far may be able to have their cake and eat it too.

I bow to your greater knowledge of such things as I only see things from a foreigners view.  And I completely accept your argument.  However  I cannot believe that the political machinery in Washington (no matter what colour) will go along with such a destructive element as Trump.  He is driving the ship rapidly towards the abyss and surely the crew will not just let this happen.  If there was ever a time for a mutiny it is now!

[selftaopath]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The sooner he can possibly be dumped the better, of course, but I'm trying to be realistic. The POTUS is a very powerful office and the congress loves they can get some long term goals through now, such as degrading Medicare and Social Security. Don't underestimate the appeal of power or the resistance against losing it. Of course they can still do those things under Pence, so the right wing republicans feeling trump is an insanity bridge too far may be able to have their cake and eat it too.

And to think the majority of Americans did not vote for him, but hate him. Can there be anyone worse for America/U.S./ democracy/ or the world than Republican Trump?

[ilostmypassword]

Well it looks like Trump has found a solution to the problem:

Trump Plans to Have an Ally Review the U.S. Spy Agencies

President Trump plans to assign a New York billionaire to lead a broad review of American intelligence agencies, according to administration officials, an effort that members of the intelligence community fear could curtail their independence and reduce the flow of information that contradicts the president’s worldview.

The possible role for Stephen A. Feinberg, a co-founder of Cerberus Capital Management, has met fierce resistance among intelligence officials already on edge because of the criticism the intelligence community has received from Mr. Trump during the campaign and since he became president. On Wednesday, Mr. Trump blamed leaks from the intelligence community for the departure of Michael T. Flynn, his national security adviser, whose resignation he requested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/us/politics/trump-intelligence-agencies-stephen-feinberg.html

Clearly the man is qualified. He's a billionaire, a supporter of Trump, and good friends with Steve Bannon.  What more could any reasonable person want?

[Redline]

6 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

On the other hand there is a report that says that her emails weren't obtained by Russia….but let's not let that get in the way of a convenient narrative.

 

I don't get why Flynn is being connected to espionage. Obama rushed into putting up some sanctions against Putin just before he left office.

What he should have done (since he said he and his team were committed to making Trump's transit smoother) was to involve the Donald in his thinking and figured out some common ground for action since he wasn't going to be around after a week or so. But Obama is too arrogant and just wanted to queer the pitch for Mr Trump.

 

So Mike Flynn probably has a chat to the russians saying yes we are surprised at what has happened, it was not done in consultation with us, we will look at it closely after the inauguration……big deal….what is so wrong with that? Unless they have taped his conversations and can prove he said something very damaging and unpatriotic.

Those conversations are on tape, and Trump has known that for some time.  Here is a rundown up to now:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/02/15/daily-202-it-s-bigger-than-flynn-new-russia-revelations-widen-trump-s-credibility-gap/58a3c5b9e9b69b1406c75cb4/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1

 

 

[Redline]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/02/15/daily-202-it-s-bigger-than-flynn-new-russia-revelations-widen-trump-s-credibility-gap/58a3c5b9e9b69b1406c75cb4/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1

 

A timeline

[Redline]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

When do the impeachment proceedings start?

When dam breaks~not in California~in DC

[TerrylSky]

Trump is an <deleted>. It makes me even more ashamed to be American (at times anyway). It is utterly unbelievable  how U.S. citizens elected this arrogant, law breaking, politically inexperienced clown in the first place. The bad news is that his policies and mandate is dangerous politically, environmentally, and economically - which effects the whole world in at least some way. I'm ashamed he is the president of my country. Then again too, I'm not surprised.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, hdkane said:

For me, and perhaps you as well, I'm a bit taken aback that the intelligence community is working to take down the president...the fact that they can act with impunity is disturbing...and reminds me of the KGB...Trump has no friends in the legislature, and surely he would be impeached when the evidence presents itself...

Should Trump be given a free hand to say and do what he wishes , should the intelligence forces turn a blind eye to wrong doing if the president is implicated ?

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well it looks like Trump has found a solution to the problem:

Trump Plans to Have an Ally Review the U.S. Spy Agencies

President Trump plans to assign a New York billionaire to lead a broad review of American intelligence agencies, according to administration officials, an effort that members of the intelligence community fear could curtail their independence and reduce the flow of information that contradicts the president’s worldview.

The possible role for Stephen A. Feinberg, a co-founder of Cerberus Capital Management, has met fierce resistance among intelligence officials already on edge because of the criticism the intelligence community has received from Mr. Trump during the campaign and since he became president. On Wednesday, Mr. Trump blamed leaks from the intelligence community for the departure of Michael T. Flynn, his national security adviser, whose resignation he requested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/us/politics/trump-intelligence-agencies-stephen-feinberg.html

Clearly the man is qualified. He's a billionaire, a supporter of Trump, and good friends with Steve Bannon.  What more could any reasonable person want?

To comprehend the absurdity of having someone with a financial background "review" the intelligence agencies, consider how Mr. Feinberg would react to having someone with an intelligence background review Cerberus Capital. 

 

As the article suggests, Feinberg is probably being prepped for a high level position in the administration with the goal of bringing the intelligence agencies under the control of Trump.  The problem is that these agencies aren't supposed to serve the President, they're supposed to serve the country.  Hitler had his military officers take an oath of allegiance to him, not to Germany.  Remember how well that worked out?

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, hdkane said:

For me, and perhaps you as well, I'm a bit taken aback that the intelligence community is working to take down the president...the fact that they can act with impunity is disturbing...and reminds me of the KGB...Trump has no friends in the legislature, and surely he would be impeached when the evidence presents itself...

The alternative being that the President acts with impunity?  If the President has ultimate power as in a dictatorship then that has to be a very dangerous scenario.  The President in a democracy must be held accountable.

 

Trump declared war with the security services and now cries foul?

Edited February 16, 2017 by dunroaming

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

"criminal" leaks from U.S. intelligence agencies in the controversy over contacts with Russian officials

For criminal leaks to occur, the information provided by Flynn in the Russian contacts must have been "Classified" or "Secret." But Trump says Flynn's only fault was a matter of trust (lied to the VP?), not that he disclosed to a foreign power classified or secret information that he had access to in the daily intelligence briefings for Nominee and president-elect Trump.

 

So for Trump to accuse US intelligence agencies of criminal leaks, he too must accuse Flynn of disclosing classified or secret information. But Flynn isn't investigated.

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

"Leaked Illegally"…isn't that the gist of what happened with hillary's server mess?

Except HRC didn't leak anything remotely damaging.  Do you know otherwise?  What specifically, did HRC leak which would aid America's rivals?  Nada.  

 

In contrast, Trump, Flynn, and their buddies are taking a drunk hayride with the Russkies - telling them everything, including Melania's bra size, and which mattresses handle urine better than others.

[boomerangutang]

         Trump nominating one of his billionaire buddies to head a commission?!  That will be about as useful as happens in Thailand, where Thai Air is assigned to find out whether there was any corruption involving, ......Thai Air.    

 

         Trump thinks; the richer a person is, the smarter he is.  Look at Sukarno/Suharto in Indonesia, or Marcos in Philippines, and you'll see how bereft that way of thinking is. Richer means being more selfish and more willing to take advantage of people on the bottom rungs of the ladder, and little else.

Trump's 'Trickle Down Theory' will work as well as Reagan's 'Trickle-down.'  It enables the rich to get richer, while the little guys get to eat yellow snow, and are told to be happy about it. 

[boomerangutang]

26 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

For criminal leaks to occur, the information provided by Flynn in the Russian contacts must have been "Classified" or "Secret." But Trump says Flynn's only fault was a matter of trust (lied to the VP?), not that he disclosed to a foreign power classified or secret information that he had access to in the daily intelligence briefings for Nominee and president-elect Trump.

 

So for Trump to accuse US intelligence agencies of criminal leaks, he too must accuse Flynn of disclosing classified or secret information. But Flynn isn't investigated.

               There's another dimension:  Russia tapes everything, so they have incriminating recordings on Flynn and Trump, and probably also on Pence.   Russkies can prove that all three of those men lied to the press corps and the American people.  Only Putin and his buddies know what else they have on those Americans and their buddies.  Russkies may also have Trump's tax statements - as an ace-in-the-hole.  

 

           It's because of incriminating evidence garnered by the Russkies, that Trump is always praising Putin.  It's not a whole lot different than the reason Travolta can't leave Scientology.  Scientology has bad stuff on Travolta, and they've never been shy about trashing anyone's reputation who deigns to leave the fold.

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

including Melania's bra size

Actually I feel rather sorry for Melania.  She never wanted all of this sh*t.  The press are giving her a hard time just because she made a financial decision to marry the billionaire Donald Trump.  Now she is pretty much locked away in her New York apartment and doesn't even take her ten year old son to and from school.  Totally out of her depth and sidelined by Trump at every opportunity.

[Slip]

So far Trump is the gift that keeps on giving. Every day there is new content. The whole saga is good for a laugh at least.   We have to give him a chance but he seems to blow it every single time.  When should his chances run out however?

[Mrjlh]

At issue is Flynn didn't tell Pence the whole story. So he was fired.  Trump is correct about the crime being committed. It doesn't matter what was in the communication between Flynn and Russia, it was the fact that this communique as sent to unauthorized people and they intended to revel what was in it. 

 

Per Fox news and several other outlets too (fact check it yourself):

 

Prosecuting the Leakers

18 U.S.C. 798 states as follows:

“Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates…to an unauthorized person, or publishes…any classified information obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.” 

 

It matters not that the leakers intended to reveal a deception by Flynn. The law’s intent clause refers only to the intent to reveal.  Any underlying motivation to serve the public good by disclosing a lie or misrepresentation is of no legal consequence under the statute.

[Slip]

1 minute ago, Mrjlh said:

At issue is Flynn didn't tell Pence the whole story. So he was fired.  Trump is correct about the crime being committed. It doesn't matter what was in the communication between Flynn and Russia, it was the fact that this communique as sent to unauthorized people and they intended to revel what was in it. 

 

Per Fox news and several other outlets too (fact check it yourself):

 

Prosecuting the Leakers

18 U.S.C. 798 states as follows:

“Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates…to an unauthorized person, or publishes…any classified information obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.” 

 

It matters not that the leakers intended to reveal a deception by Flynn. The law’s intent clause refers only to the intent to reveal.  Any underlying motivation to serve the public good by disclosing a lie or misrepresentation is of no legal consequence under the statute.

Trump and his merry band claim that Pence lied.  Others think that both Pence and Trump knew about it.  Surely this should be very thoroughly investigated, yet Don wants his mate to do it?

 

That should raise questions with anyone but the most gushing revellers in the golden fountain.