Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit

[Orac]

I am not revising anything. You select bits and pieces over several years but the truth is that, in general terms, the people of the UK were intentionally mislead. I know, I remember, I was there. Does Heath's confession make his crime any better?
 
Fishing rights were given away to assist the UK being accepted into the EEC (a pre 1st January 1973 free-bee if you like) - this after multiple membership applications had already been rejected by the Europeans, particularly the French.
 
As for Enoch Powell, well what he needed was an audience that listened and actually believed him.
 
 

Did you watch the vid where Enoch Powell says in an interview given while results were still coming in though the result was known already that:

Edward Heath was "beyond criticism in that they have made it perfectly clear that to remain part of the common market is to renounce national status for Britain"

and people were

"rightly told by people like Edward Heath that this did in fact mean that they would become a province in a new state"


Since you also say that part of the problem was people not listening to Enoch Powell or believing him maybe it is a case of you misremembering rather than being misled.

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, Grouse said:

ake a buck and cover t

 

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think we've all moved on from the "remainers" cause. That's democracy for good or bad.

 

What gets me is that hardly any MP has the courage and statesmanship to stand up and speak his mind. Do you not think it odd that no Con Party MP spoke out except Clark and a couple of others? Why is that do you think?

 

I'll tell you; it's because they can see how to make a buck and cover their backs. Dismal actually.

 

So different from the days of Whitelaw and Powell!

 

The fact that it took Blair with all his baggage to say what needed to be said is telling of the state we are in (I'm aware of the double meaning!)

Well, Grouse, if you enjoy Conservative statesmanship then out try this one with Jacob Rees-Mogg giving your wittering hero Clarke a good slapping.  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37622778

 

and a compilation of his greatest bits (hits) for your entertainment and enlightenment.

 

 

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Did you watch the vid where Enoch Powell says in an interview given while results were still coming in though the result was known already that:

Edward Heath was "beyond criticism in that they have made it perfectly clear that to remain part of the common market is to renounce national status for Britain"

and people were

"rightly told by people like Edward Heath that this did in fact mean that they would become a province in a new state"


Since you also say that part of the problem was people not listening to Enoch Powell or believing him maybe it is a case of you misremembering rather than being misled.

 

 

I watched this video many times. But a lot of people did not see the TV then. Whatever Enoch Powell said at the time, loss of UK sovereignty was not clearly announced to the masses and understood by them. Enoch had already shocked the country and a lot of people did not want to accept what he said. 

 

I remember very well that I ended up being so confused that I abstained from voting because knew that I did not have enough knowledge or experience to make the decision. Now I wish I had followed my heart (and Enoch) and voted out. Why do you think Heath signed the UK in well before the referendum?   

 

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by nauseus
spelling

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Did you watch the vid where Enoch Powell says in an interview given while results were still coming in though the result was known already that:

Edward Heath was "beyond criticism in that they have made it perfectly clear that to remain part of the common market is to renounce national status for Britain"

and people were

"rightly told by people like Edward Heath that this did in fact mean that they would become a province in a new state"


Since you also say that part of the problem was people not listening to Enoch Powell or believing him maybe it is a case of you misremembering rather than being misled.

 

 

I watched this video many times. But a lot of people did not. Whatever Enoch Powell said at the time, loss of UK sovereignty was not clearly announced to the masses. Enoch had already shocked the country and a lot of people did not want to accept what he said. 

 

I remember very well that I ended up being so confused that I abstained from voting because I recognized that I did not have enough knowledge or experience to male the decision. Now I wish I had followed my heart (and Enoch) and voted out. Why do you think Heath signed the UK before the referendum? Huh?  

 

 

[Richard W]

3 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Again, revisionist.

 

Wilson to parliament in 1967, the white paper in 1971, the Daily Mail as I quoted and also The Sun were clear that this was a political union as much as an economic one.

 

Your claim that Heath 'admitted his deceit' in the 1990 interview is just him confirming what was being said at the time by many people involved.

During the televised debates for the 1975 referendum, Roy Hattersley denied that there would be political union.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Actually I don't think I'm the only one who has put this poster on an ignore list.

I wonder why?

Because you are unable to discuss anything properly

 

Please be kind enough to ignore me and don't snipe from the protection of your ignore safety blanket

Edited February 19, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sorry for snipping parts of your post - but I agree with the above entirely!

 

On the other side of the coin, I've no doubt that Blair and Clark etc. are also only interested in 'making a buck and covering their backs'.....

 

Which brings me back to Blair being SO delusional that he thinks people respect him and will 'rise up against brexit' because of his utterances (roll eyes). 

 

But you didn't answer the question - do you think the EU/world "need" Blair to put them on the right path?

Clarke? You must be joking!

 

You are aren't you?

 

He's the best dressed man in England

[Grouse]

On 17/02/2017 at 7:47 PM, vogie said:

Tony Blair doesn't understand what democrasy is, he makes Nigel Farage look like Mother Theresa.

Do enlighten us?

[thai3]

Well he has been totally ignored, no 'uprising' at all, just made himself look a bigger fool than usual, if a rich one

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Well, Grouse, if you enjoy Conservative statesmanship then out try this one with Jacob Rees-Mogg giving your wittering hero Clarke a good slapping.  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37622778

 

and a compilation of his greatest bits (hits) for your entertainment and enlightenment.

 

 

Thanks for those!

 

Great discussion between Clarke and Rees Mogg. Good points made on both sides. "Good slapping"? Do we have to reduce everything to chavish, loutish, discourse? 

 

I do not agree with Rees Mogg's position on many things (the price of food will go down) but I would defend his right to voice his opinion and listen to him. He's an educated man after all!!!

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Well he has been totally ignored, no 'uprising' at all, just made himself look a bigger fool than usual, if a rich one

It's been on every News feed I have seen? Was it not mentioned on Jeremy Kyle?

[vogie]

32 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Do enlighten us?

Well Tony Bliar is trying to turn a decision taken by the british people, the country (majority) has decided to leave the EU and whoever you are, including you, must respect that undertaking. And as for NF, I can't recall him being responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths, can you. I hope you are a little bit 'enlightened now. Having said all that I have no desire to engage in further dialogue with you as I find some of your replies insulting and arrogant.

[fasteddie]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's been on every News feed I have seen? Was it not mentioned on Jeremy Kyle?

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Thanks for those!

 

Great discussion between Clarke and Rees Mogg. Good points made on both sides. "Good slapping"? Do we have to reduce everything to chavish, loutish, discourse? 

 

I do not agree with Rees Mogg's position on many things (the price of food will go down) but I would defend his right to voice his opinion and listen to him. He's an educated man after all!!!

You obviously don't agree with most people about most things. As soon as an every-day expression is used you complain to divert from the main topic. Why don't you provide some serious arguments about what is so great about the EU, why the UK should stay in it and why the referendum vote should be ignored!

 

 

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

Well Tony Bliar is trying to turn a decision taken by the british people, the country (majority) has decided to leave the EU and whoever you are, including you, must respect that undertaking. And as for NF, I can't recall him being responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths, can you. I hope you are a little bit 'enlightened now. Having said all that I have no desire to engage in further dialogue with you as I find some of your replies insulting and arrogant.

I'm sorry you don't feel able to continue the discussion; I'm heartbroken!

 

You insinuated that Blair was not democratic? I'm still none the wiser.

 

With 20/20 hindsight, Iraq was mistake. I agree.

 

Blair feels that the masses are not fully informed what they are getting in to. I agree

 

Now, be my guest and ignore me. There is a small coterie of others who also don't feel able to keep up.

[thai3]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's been on every News feed I have seen? Was it not mentioned on Jeremy Kyle?

Been mentioned, then ignored

[fasteddie]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You obviously don't agree with most people about most things. As soon as an every-day expression is used you complain to divert from the main topic. Why don't you provide some serious arguments about what is so great about the EU, why the UK should stay in it and why the referendum vote should be ignored!

 

 

" and why the referendum vote should be ignored!"

House of commons briefing paper 07212, issued to all MP's 3rd June 2015, Section 5 says "This referendum is advisory only. It doesn't bind either Parliament or the government to act on it's outcome".

 

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You obviously don't agree with most people about most things. As soon as an every-day expression is used you complain to divert from the main topic. Why don't you provide some serious arguments about what is so great about the EU, why the UK should stay in it and why the referendum vote should be ignored!

 

 

I have indeed promised to give a list of positive points about the EU  and will do so. Sorry for the delay.

 

I do seem to disagree with many on TV, but not all. Any theories why? In my circle of friends and associates most are of a similar view. Elitist? Maybe. Is that bad?

 

But here's the thing, you posted some good stuff and I understand your point of view. But giving Clarke a "slapping"? I don't know, maybe I'm just old and miss common courtesy?

 

My main point is that a true statesman speaks what he truly believes. If it came to following the party line rather than his soul, he would resign.

 

I do feel that UK has gone down in so many ways. I hope things can be turned around but I don't see many great leaders in the wings. Do you?

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Been mentioned, then ignored

Yes, that seems about right 

 

I keep seeing this vision of lemmings pouring over a cliff!

 

I wish I had your confidence in the Con Party; in the meantime, I've already got my parachute ?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Well Tony Bliar is trying to turn a decision taken by the british people, the country (majority) has decided to leave the EU and whoever you are, including you, must respect that undertaking. And as for NF, I can't recall him being responsible for 10s of thousands of deaths, can you. I hope you are a little bit 'enlightened now. Having said all that I have no desire to engage in further dialogue with you as I find some of your replies insulting and arrogant.

179 British deaths in the second Iraq campaign

[onemorechang]

Yes i remember Tony Blair

what a guy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F8HwVcqH8g

 

 

 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, onemorechang said:

Yes i remember Tony Blair

what a guy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F8HwVcqH8g

 

 

 

Yes! Spitting Image was just great!

 

Sadly, these day it wouldn't work

 

The politicians are sufficiently mad to be beyond satire

 

And, I'm not sure much of the audience would understand the jokes....

[billd766]

7 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not sure about Enoch Powell being a "great" person, but entirely agree with the rest of your post.

 

Well he got where he was and did what he did by his own efforts and a lot of hard work. Not a lot was handed to him on a plate nor were his family rich or titled.

 

He had principles that he stood by all his life.

 

He was correct about many things but wrong in the timing of some of them

[billd766]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

Actually I don't think I'm the only one who has put this poster on an ignore list.

I wonder why?

 

He has been on my ignore list for months now.

[overherebc]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Thank you for that video. I found it very interesting and I had forgotten what a good speaker and a great person Enoch Powell was.

 He was also a man who stood by his principles, something rarely if ever found in the UK politicians today.

 

Enoch Powell's write up on Wikipedia is very interesting.

 

Tony B'liar has never has a principle in his life other than the greater glorification of himself.

Hand Cookie Jar springs to mind.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Let alone your grammar  (  synaptically challenged  ? had to look the meaning up ) as it is a medical term for the brain I have never heard before  and obviously meant as derogatory remark . If you are trying to be clever with your vocabulary it is not working for me . Kiss - keep it simple stupid  . 

What do you dislike about my grammar?

 

[Jonmarleesco]

This from the man who lied through his back teeth over Iraq, then followed Bush Jr. like a lemming, straight over the cliff.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Pity the British people didn't "rise up" and throw that idiot out when they had the chance at his second election. I guess they got what they deserve.

Shame about the grunts that were maimed/ died in his second term though.

[superal]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pity the British people didn't "rise up" and throw that idiot out when they had the chance at his second election. I guess they got what they deserve.

Shame about the grunts that were maimed/ died in his second term though.

Dont know what it would take for the Bits to  " rise up " .  It seems as if the public voice and demonstrations were  diluted or almost quashed by the demise of the unions under Thatcher . 

               Can you imagine how the parents of a young soldier felt when he was sent to the Iraq war zone , under equipped and under armed , by the false statements of Blair and did not return .  How Blair can live with that on his conscience  is beyond me .

Blair is wasting his breath trying to persuade the voters to reverse the Brexit decision , if anything it will have the opposite effect .