National Park in Krabi refuses to stop fleecing tourists - authorities preparing for "double pricing" showdown today

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, steffi said:

It's not double pricing it's two tiered pricing.

 ROFL.  Oh.  Well then.  THAT makes it all better!

 

[nontabury]

41 minutes ago, samjaidee said:

I'm not saying double pricing is right but really if you think about it, approximately 10 pounds, euros or dollars will not be considered an outrageous amount by a tourist to visit a marine park. Why should they spoil their holiday by missing out on the trip just to make a political point in a country where their voice will not be heard?

 

 Some Thais are extremely rich,far more so than the average Farang. Personally know Thais who will think nothing of paying a few hundred thousand Bht on a meal. Allso remember a charitable meal and entertainment a few years back,with an entrance charge of one million bht plus.

[Alan Deer]

6 minutes ago, FunkyDunky58 said:

I live in Thailand but refuse to go to any National Parks because of the 10x pricing. My girlfriend cannot understand why I take this stance. Her rationale is that for a farang its not big money. And that folks is maybe the 'rationale' for the government. We can afford it so why shouldn't we pay it. The paying taxes excuse is BS given half of Thailand exists on a cash economy. By the way I do pay taxes for running my business. The times I have been I have seen poorly maintained facilities and can see Thais that are happy to just drop their litter (plastic bottles mainly) wherever they have finished with them. So I don't think I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face as one poster claimed. I haven't been anywhere yet where I thought it was so beautiful that I really want to come back.

I have visited many National P{arks in Thailand and your take on them is totally against my own experience. I have an off-road vehicle and often go camping or walking ...mostly in the WFC .....for me the Nations forests are still one of the most incredible sights that Thailand has. That they will remain so is not a given.....however by not visiting these places you are missing out on one of Thailand's greatest assets. I'm totally against the 2 tier pricing, but I'm not going to let that stop me from visiting. by visiting I'm also in a better position to put forward an argument as to how the NPs are mismanaged - 2-tier pricing being just one of the problems they face. Handling of visitors is another but this is also connected to the pricing.

IMO the best way to voice disapproval is not to "boycott" - as the numbers are simply too minute to be effective, but the WRITE to DNP and voice one's displeasure....and of course to use the social media to make others aware of this ridiculous situation. a situation where Thailand's incompetence is actually endangering the worlds eco-=systems.

 

PS - as for wildlife - what do you expect??? - in a functioning eco-system you will see wildlife, but only on there terms learn to spot the evidence for me one tiger scat is worth a million tigers in cages -  - it isn't a zoo <deleted>!

[hawker9000]

21 minutes ago, denby45 said:

Has everyone lost sight of the fact that Thai's earn, in general, approximately only a tenth of what westerners earn. So tourists in my opinion should stop being Cheap Charlies and visit those wonderful parks. Imagine travelling all the way to Thailand and getting the hump over dual pricing. Cutting nose off to spite face comes to mind. Long term resident foreign pensioners here of course should be treated different and their pricing should be set at a level commensurate with their average income. I know that would be a difficult thing to work out very accurately but you could get at least somewhere near.    

 

Den

Oh, so this is Thailand's version of the "War on Poverty", eh?  

 

Some of the apologia for this rank, tourist-exploiting absurdity, every time it comes up, is just hilarious.   It makes you realize the deep eternal truth in "there's one born every minute".   So true.

[Madmax170]

I was preparing a thread similar to this which comes along to the National Treatment ....

 

Thailand claims to be United National member and therefor also the National treatment should be respected and no exception.

Equal treatments for nationals and foreigner are common sense in many countries worldwide to comply with UN Regulation.

 

Thailand just recently enjoy the effort of being member of UN as the United National honored

"HIS Majesty The King" with an almost 1-day conference session to reflect his efforts to Thailand. RIP!

 

 

""Quote from Wikipedia""

""Quote from Wikipedia""

National treatment

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

National treatment is a principle in international law vital to many treaty regimes. It essentially means treating foreigners and locals equally. Under national treatment, if a state grants a particular right, benefit or privilege to its own citizens, it must also grant those advantages to the citizens of other states while they are in that country. In the context of international agreements, a state must provide equal treatment to those citizens of other states that are participating in the agreement.^[vague] Imported and locally produced goods should be treated equally — at least after the foreign goods have entered the market.^{[1][vague][vague]}

While this is generally viewed as a desirable principle, in custom it conversely means that a state can deprive foreigners of anything of which it deprives its own citizens. An opposing principle calls for an international minimum standard of justice (a sort of basic due process) that would provide a base floor for the protection of rights and of access to judicial process. The conflict between national treatment and minimum standards has mainly played out between industrialized and developing nations, in the context of expropriations. Many developing nations, having the power to take control over the property of their own citizens, wished to exercise it over the property of aliens as well.

Though support for national treatment was expressed in several controversial (and legally non-binding) United Nations General Assembly resolutions, the issue of expropriations is almost universally handled through treaties with other states and contracts with private entities, rather than through reliance upon international custom.

National treatment only applies once a product, service or item of intellectual property has entered the market. Therefore, charging customs duty on an import is not a violation of national treatment even if locally produced products are not charged an equivalent tax.^[1]

GATT/WTO

National treatment is an integral part of many World Trade Organization agreements. Together with the Most-Favoured-Nation principle, national treatment is one of the cornerstones of WTO trade law. It is found in all 3 of the main WTO agreements (GATT, GATS and TRIPS).^[1]

National treatment is a basic principle of GATT/WTO that prohibits discrimination between imported and domestically produced goods with respect to internal taxation or other government regulation. The principle of national treatment is formulated in Article 3 of the GATT 1947^[2] (and incorporated by reference in GATT 1994); Article 17 of the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS); and in Article 3 of the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). The aim of this trade rule is to prevent internal taxes or other regulations from being used as a substitute for tariff protection.^[3]

A good summary is found in Japan-Alcohol^[4] which states; "[a] national treatment obligation is a general prohibition on the use of internal taxes and other internal regulatory measures so as to afford protection to domestic production".

 

""End of Quote""

""End of Quote""

 

I agree with Alan Deer!  Thump up!

 

Looks like the thread is going to be HOT! due to the fast replying rate / min. so this shows me I' am not alone and many people disregard to this topic.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Madmax170

[Alan Deer]

Just now, nontabury said:

 

 Some Thais are extremely rich,far more so than the average Farang. Personally know Thais who will think nothing of paying a few hundred thousand Bht on a meal. Allso remember a charitable meal and entertainment a few years back,with an entrance charge of one million bht plus.

Thailand has the 3rd biggest rich/poor divide in the world - 74.5 per cent of the country's wealth controlled by 1 per cent of the people.

the country has money but the people don't....this is further reason for the government - not the visitors to pay for the parks - tax the rich and put the money to good use for the rest of te nation and the tourism industry. unfortunately the rich of Thailand want to keep their money and don't put don't put anything back.

[Thaimike370]

The Thai people must get it in their heads that there are several thousand of us farang aliens who actually live here, who will NEVER use the parks while they use a two-tier pricing system.  This means they also lose our Thai families, children and other family members entrance money as well.  By the same logic, a lot of us will never buy anything that does not have the price written on it.  We are not being mean, we will not tolerate being ripped off by anyone, farang or Thai.

[paul545]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

The other problem which has come to light is that the fee's disappear! Pii Pii Island being a good example.

 

I arrived at Khao Yai, Korat on a motorbike, with my ex, a Filipino lady, they demanded 800 + the bike fee. There was no way they knew she was not a Thai lady. I am sure there are two books of tickets, the reported and accounted for tickets and "black" income tickets. 

 

At the very least the country should find a way of discounting year long visa expats. Proof you have a marriage, retirement or work visa should allow local prices. But in fact and two tiered prices i feel is wrong.

In the past I have shown my work permit to Government run venues and others such as Sri Racha Tiger Zoo, Erawan Museum, Mueang Boran and been charged the Thai price and more recently I have used my Farang Pink ID card to enter places like Pattaya floating market where it is free for Thai but Baht 200 for Farang and got in free. If you are a long term Farang resident then get the ID card it's so much easier and stops you getting high blood pressure :)

[ujayujay]

Doublepricing is simply a ripp off as long Thai Tourists not have to pay double Price in western Countrys. 

[Clarinet man]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Never had this issue - I simply don't go. All foreigners should do likewise if they want to see 'farang price' stopped.

Farrang price everywhere not only there Chiang Mai too.  It's  everywhere.  

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

I am happy that I visited most areas now declared "National Parks" in the Andaman sea in the 80's, never had to pay a Baht than and the places very in good condition. Paying 400 THB for a polluted and a place crowded with 100's of tourist is not very interesting for me today. Malaysia and Indonesia got much nicer places and they are mostly free to visit.   

[Alan Deer]

11 minutes ago, Thaimike370 said:

The Thai people must get it in their heads that there are several thousand of us farang aliens who actually live here, who will NEVER use the parks while they use a two-tier pricing system.  This means they also lose our Thai families, children and other family members entrance money as well.  By the same logic, a lot of us will never buy anything that does not have the price written on it.  We are not being mean, we will not tolerate being ripped off by anyone, farang or Thai.

I think that is pure supposition.

the truth is that entrance fees are not a significant part of the cost of running a park properly...they need government funding. So debating on whether to visit or not is really off topic and would prove insignificant in financing the parks.

WITING or complaining to the national parks about poor practices would certainly be more effective.

 

For example; at present their is a rort going on at Umphang re - the Thi lor Su waterfall - the local authorities have used the repair of te access road to create a monopoly or CARTEL of vehicles that can access the campsite - this is an example of gross mismanagement of what is probably the most spectacular waterfall in Thailand. I represented a group of over 70 people who wanted to camp there - that rip has now been cancelled. I have made various representations and now not only are they aware of my disappointment, the local resorts and businesses are complaining because of the loss of business due to this cosy deal. Similar to the boat owners of Krabi - I suspect there will be  a change of policy at some point.

 

The fact is if people write and complain in enough numbers the pressure to review this policy and others will mount and eventually the authorities will either out of logic or embarrassment (who cares) have to change their archaic, inept attitudes.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Alan Deer

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, rudidep said:

Two tiered pricing by private enterprise (especially when using Thai script to hide the Thai prices) is despicable. This is different. Two-tiered pricing is set at all national parks in Thailand, and clearly posted in both English and Thai. I was told that the underlying rationale is that a flat fee to cover the cost of upkeep of the parks would raise the price of a ticket to a level where it would no longer be affordable for the average-income Thai family. Hence low prices for Thai, high prices for Tourists. There some logic to this...whether acceptable or not is a different matter and leave it to the forum to decide. Cheers.

 

I have no issue with local Thais paying a lower fee. It's their country, they should be able to visit their country parks etc for free. 

Tourists on the other hand should expect to pay an entrance fee.

[bikerbri]

They want your money,but sure as f.....they don't want you!

[Dazinoz]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

 

At the very least the country should find a way of discounting year long visa expats. Proof you have a marriage, retirement or work visa should allow local prices. But in fact and two tiered prices i feel is wrong.

They already do. I produce my Thai drivers licence and pay Thai price.

 

Went to the Botanical Gardens in Phuket with my wife. Instantly was told 1000baht. Showed our Thai licences. Dropped to 200 total. 

[Alan Deer]

21 minutes ago, paul545 said:

In the past I have shown my work permit to Government run venues and others such as Sri Racha Tiger Zoo, Erawan Museum, Mueang Boran and been charged the Thai price and more recently I have used my Farang Pink ID card to enter places like Pattaya floating market where it is free for Thai but Baht 200 for Farang and got in free. If you are a long term Farang resident then get the ID card it's so much easier and stops you getting high blood pressure :)

You are citing private "circuses" or tourist attractions - rather than the DNPs policy.

However, it does underline the fact that there is a nationwide acceptance of 2-tier pricing  policies - this would indicate that there needs to be a sea-change in public awareness - it is NOT a logical policy and in the long run benefits no-one.

 

I have WP/Visa?tax etc et....I have entered NPs at reduced rates many times - but also have had to pay the full amount........the policy of ALL foreigners paying in full has bee reinforced about a year ago which makes access at a lower rate more difficult - I find my best weapon is speaking reasonably good conversational Thai...this often puts any over-zealous official in a position of acute embarrassment.

but at the end of the day, we shouldn't have to be negotiating a different price, it should be the same for all with concessions for special groups - the elderly, students etc etc....

Edited February 22, 2017 by Alan Deer

[tpaul1]

In my opinion, they should raise the rate for Thais not ncessarily lower it for foreigners, though for maximum revenues, this is something they will have to figure out. When we went to Kaeng Kra Chang earlier this month there was a traffic jam half way up a mountain, 40 kms inside this beautiful park at 6am. You expect this in BKK but not in the jungle! At least charge 500 THB per car for such places and only those who really want to go will cough up the cash. By all means have season tickets and concessions for students, the poor (difficult to prove in this country I'll admit) or a lottery, first to book cheap ticket scheme etc so those local enthusiasts can still enjoy the natural beauty that Thailand has to offer. However, selfishly speaking, I'd prefer to pay a premium to have peace and quiet. As the system is now, we get the worst of all worlds, paying a premium and then having to put up with a second rate experience due to congestion and over crowding. As it was, having got up at 5am, staying right outside the park entrance and we still missed the sunrise. Who would have thought that would be the case?  BTW, after the masses had taken their selfies with the fog sea behind them, they all disappeared from whence they came and left the rest of us to enjoy the excellent wildlife and nature that the park has to offer.

[Alan Deer]

1 hour ago, rudidep said:

Two tiered pricing by private enterprise (especially when using Thai script to hide the Thai prices) is despicable. This is different. Two-tiered pricing is set at all national parks in Thailand, and clearly posted in both English and Thai. I was told that the underlying rationale is that a flat fee to cover the cost of upkeep of the parks would raise the price of a ticket to a level where it would no longer be affordable for the average-income Thai family. Hence low prices for Thai, high prices for Tourists. There some logic to this...whether acceptable or not is a different matter and leave it to the forum to decide. Cheers.

" I was told that the underlying rationale is that a flat fee to cover the cost of upkeep of the parks would raise the price of a ticket to a level where it would no longer be affordable for the average-income Thai family. Hence low prices for Thai, high prices for Tourists. There some logic to this...whether acceptable or not is a different matter and leave it to the forum to decide."

 

- this is patently misinformation - entrance fees ae only a part of the cost of running a park and the 2-tier pricing makes no signifiant difference. If you care to dig around, tere was a paer on this several years back that suggested a uniform entrance fee and a review of funding of national parks.

[prakhonchai nick]

Angkor Wat in Cambodia is now $37 for foreigners.................FREE for Cambodians.  And the bloody place was opened up and is restored  by foreign governments"!!!!

[Khun Robert]

I thank the Chief of National Park for NOT changing his prices.

Tourisme in Krabi changed in the last years, I'm living here for 13 years so I have a little experience.

The fees for National Park did not change in the last years.

 

Krabi was visited by lots of back packers, who wanted to go around cheap cheap.

Now we have lots of families who like to be transported with a little more comfort,

Speedboats are fully booked on the same tour and the longtail boats lost 60 % of their customers.

Not because the entrance fee, but because a noisy non stable boat and wooden banches, with a 2 step ladder and customers walking

from the boat in  1 meter water towards and from the beach. Elderly people are pushed and pulled on the longtailboats.

Speedboats use the harbor.

It is funny to see how they treat the customers as cattle.

 

Next to that the amount of longtail boats went from 200 till 700 in just 2 years but the volume of customers did not increased that much.

Not blame Us, longtail boat drivers, we made money long time ago and customers come every day, blame every body else.

 

Total Ao Nang area has NO clue about tourisme and many shop owners, including Foreign shop owners, keep on telling:

It does not matter how I treat a customers, Krabi is nice and people will come.

 

Some customers, as read in the OP 60% start seeing the difference in tours and change their plans.

Time to change your service towards customers to keep them coming into your shop, boat, restaurant etc.

 

 

[wirat69]

1 hour ago, Abilene said:

400 baht might be a good price...   I see the Thai rate more as a discount reflecting comparable wages.

On that basis you are happy to pay 450 baht for Pad Thai at a street stall???.... get your head around racism!!!

[xtof2]

I went to Hong Islands last week. 300 bahts entrance fee. All the beaches were crammed, so not sure why boa operators could complain.

This two-tiered pricing is just another bribe. Most of the money don't go to the Park but to the so-called officers. 

Some boat operators include the entrance fee in their fares (like mine), some don't.

In any case, no one did get a ticket from the Park and our boat operator did not even went to the Park booth when we arrived on Hong.

[Srikcir]

There are 75 embassies in Bangkok. I doubt none are unaware of double+ pricing for foreigners throughout Thailand.

Citizens of these countries must put pressure on their respective embassies, ie., by petitions, emails, phone calls, etc., to demand the discrimination stop. If your country representative is not supportive, contact your homeland government to legislate equal treatment of Thais in your homeland quid pro quo. On a case-by-case basis the Thai government will not take notice.

[Gonefortea]

I go have no problems paying my Thai price. But must admit some are over the top on pricing.

[DieterWiehe]

1 hour ago, rudidep said:

Two tiered pricing by private enterprise (especially when using Thai script to hide the Thai prices) is despicable. This is different. Two-tiered pricing is set at all national parks in Thailand, and clearly posted in both English and Thai. I was told that the underlying rationale is that a flat fee to cover the cost of upkeep of the parks would raise the price of a ticket to a level where it would no longer be affordable for the average-income Thai family. Hence low prices for Thai, high prices for Tourists. There some logic to this...whether acceptable or not is a different matter and leave it to the forum to decide. Cheers.

the upkeep of the park is paid for by the taxpayers money .if you work here you pay tax (hopefully)everything you buy is taxed especially items for foreigners (luxury Tax) so the should be happy with the same  flat rate for everyone . the thing the do now is racist

[Harveyboy]

2 hours ago, steffi said:

It's not double pricing it's two tiered pricing.

Yep had some 2 tiered pricing yesterday at Erawan national park.  Thai 100..

Farang ie me and my kids 300 each RICH FARANG.. 

[tpaul1]

Quote

It is funny to see how they treat the customers as cattle.

20 years ago, just as Koh Chang started to change from a relaxed place for back packers to stay by the beach and become friends with the locals, I was getting off a boat when one of the local Thai men on the jetty shouted out: " Mee Farang, kee tua?". None of the other foreigners understood what was going on, but when I passed him on my way of the boat I said in a firm and loud voice so others could understand, "Farang bpen kon, mai bpen sat!" Pretty sure he got some broken face over that but it was a sign of things to come, and now  like most Thai beach areas where there are foreign tourists, it is ruined by greedy and short sighted people just looking for a quick buck. So sad  

Edited February 22, 2017 by tpaul1

[spidermike007]

Beautiful. Finally. This kind of protest is so long overdue. Double pricing would be fine with most people. But there is no reason for five to ten times. It is extortion. Most of us hate it. I avoid national parks whenever I can, even though there are some very nice ones here. Withdraw your support. Show them how heinous this practice is. Stop the piracy. Stop it now. 

 

As usual Little P. is showing absolutely no moral guidance, nor effective leadership. Always absent on the job. Little P. Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace.

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Chief Sarayuth said that police and military personnel were on alert for trouble though he said that the authorities will act within the law.

Standard answer. Act within the law priceless. These extra bahts charged must be finding a home at the top of the food chain or be part of well you know who's budget.

Edited February 22, 2017 by elgordo38

[Alan Deer]

15 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Angkor Wat in Cambodia is now $37 for foreigners.................FREE for Cambodians.  And the bloody place was opened up and is restored  by foreign governments"!!!!

THere are plenty of foreign-funded places in Thailand where tey impose a 2-tier system - Bang Chiang is a World Heritage site and they do this.

 

however there is a wealth of opinion that the current increases will do little for angkor's finances as it may reduce te numbers of visitors...... one certainly would need to monitor closely where this money goes.

 

 

A few years back I stumbled across a rort at Kaeng Krachan - there used to be a notice at the ranger HQ stating that foreigners with appropriate docs could enter at the lower rate. (this ahas since bee stopped). at the time i din't buy my ticket there but drove to the entrance near the forest...here I was told in no uncertain terms that I had to pay FULL price as did the other 2 vehicles with me. We made a circus out of turning round and bought tickets back at the Ranger HQ.

i also reported the man at the entrance. What he was doing was takin advantage of foreigners and pocketing the difference for himself.