Reconciliation efforts results will come clear after poll : Abhisit

[webfact]

Reconciliation efforts results will come clear after poll : Abhisit

 

File photo: Abhisit

 

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party chief Abhisit Vejjajiva said Wednesday the country will not know if the junta’s attempts to bring about reconciliation have been successful until after the next election.

 

“We can have reconciliation proposals, we can sign contracts, and hold press conferences, but if everything gets chaotic again after the election, then it’s meaningless,” he said on Wednesday in a Facebook Live interview with Nation Multimedia Group digital journalist Suthichai Yoon.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30306919

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-02-22

[tukkytuktuk]

How can it be successful when the political party that is voted in by the popular vote can't choose their own Prime Minister. When a policy or act cannot be passed without the approval of the military controlled senate.

In answer to Abhisit "No, sh1t Sherlock".

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

How can it be successful when the political party that is voted in by the popular vote can't choose their own Prime Minister. When a policy or act cannot be passed without the approval of the military controlled senate.

In answer to Abhisit "No, sh1t Sherlock".

 

and it is made up nonsense like this that causes problems - the party that wins the election can vote in their own PM

 

 

[candide]

Well, there are two ways to understand it:

- there will be reconciliation if the usual party does not get into power again, and my ex-minister does not need to organise chaos again with the support of other institutions,

OR

- there will be reconciliation if people accept that the party with the most votes does not get into power, or in case it does, will not be allowed to implement its own program. ....

[hansnl]

33 minutes ago, candide said:

Well, there are two ways to understand it:

- there will be reconciliation if the usual party does not get into power again, and my ex-minister does not need to organise chaos again with the support of other institutions,

OR

- there will be reconciliation if people accept that the party with the most votes does not get into power, or in case it does, will not be allowed to implement its own program. ....

Why this "one party of in power" thinking.

A coalition of parties in government might be better and does not deny the votes of the smaller parties completely.

[yellowboat]

Yeah, they should government so the Thai poeple can evaluate their contributions.  The sooner the leave the better.  

[greenchair]

8 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Why this "one party of in power" thinking.

A coalition of parties in government might be better and does not deny the votes of the smaller parties completely.

They tried a coalition of parties already. It created a weak government with no power and they could not agree on anything , so nothing got done. That's why they went back to most votes wins all. 

Now they will have an appointed military senate which will essentially help all the coalition parties to agree and guide them through the 20 year plan. So it is still a one party rule dressed up differently. 

 

[Lupatria]

TV should have a betting system about the outcome of the poll. All money lost, will go to charity (bypassing the temples of course). Here is a hint: everyone placing a bet under 97% for the government will automatically get a thank you E-Mail from the charity organisations. 

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, greenchair said:

That's why they went back to most votes wins all. 

The new 2016 constitution will use the Mixed Members Apportionment (MMA) system that will further weaken the influence of large political parties by forcing coalition parties to gain majority in the House and the ability of a single party to select the PM. The MMA is even more restrictive in terms of political power gained by a single party than the Mixed Member Proportion (MMP) system used by Germany - a system considered by the CDC but rejected as not meeting the special needs for Thai democracy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867470-mma-challenges-fairness-of-thai-elections/

And should the House be unable to select a PM, the junta-controlled Senate will decide.

[PatOngo]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

and it is made up nonsense like this that causes problems - the party that wins the election can vote in their own PM

 

 

I think it's a no brainer who will win..........The Camouflage Party.

[smedly]

7 hours ago, Srikcir said:

 

 

 

 

And should the House be unable to select a PM, the junta-controlled Senate will decide.

so what ?

 

better than a thief convicted criminal on the run living in a foreign country deciding on who should be Thailands PM

 

you really need a reality check - I actually think you are a planted troll here to get the numbers up, I can think of no other rational reason for your persistant nonsense

[smedly]

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I think it's a no brainer who will win..........The Camouflage Party.

I actually don't care because as soon as whoever it is steps out of line they will be held to account - something that has been severely lacking in Thailand .................................choose the wrong path and you will be exposed and severely dealt with - just how it should be

 

If the elected government works for the country and its people then they will have no problem at all

 

wow won't that be a first

Edited February 23, 2017 by smedly

[JAG]

so what ?

 

better than a thief convicted criminal on the run living in a foreign country deciding on who should be Thailands PM

 

you really need a reality check - I actually think you are a planted troll here to get the numbers up, I can think of no other rational reason for your persistant nonsense

I actually don't care because as soon as whoever it is steps out of line they will be held to account - something that has been severely lacking in Thailand .................................choose the wrong path and you will be exposed and severely dealt with - just how it should be

 

If the elected government works for the country and its people then they will have no problem at all

 

wow won't that be a first

Talking about " planted trolls" what is the appropriate term of approbation for a poster who believes that an elected government should be severely "dealt with" by a background military junta if they "step out of line" and " choose the wrong path".

I'm rather looking for a term which encapsulates a total disregard for the democratically expressed will of the people, together perhaps with open contempt for the wishes of those people. There were several political movements around in Europe in the 1930s which seem to fit the bill, but of course we can't use those labels can we....

[greenchair]

7 hours ago, Srikcir said:

The new 2016 constitution will use the Mixed Members Apportionment (MMA) system that will further weaken the influence of large political parties by forcing coalition parties to gain majority in the House and the ability of a single party to select the PM. The MMA is even more restrictive in terms of political power gained by a single party than the Mixed Member Proportion (MMP) system used by Germany - a system considered by the CDC but rejected as not meeting the special needs for Thai democracy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/867470-mma-challenges-fairness-of-thai-elections/

 

 

And should the House be unable to select a PM, the junta-controlled Senate will decide.

 

That was very interesting. What stands out is thailand will have a political system never tried anywhere else in the world. 

What I read between the lines of jade, Abhisit, military, Suthep is that everything is going to go smoothly as long as nobody votes for pt. The underlying message is always the threat that the shutdowns will continue if pt is voted in. Since all of the other parties are too small, I guess the new battle will be Suthep party and the Democrats. If I am alive and not senile by the time they get round to elections, it's going to be very interesting how all this plays out. 

[Sphere]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

We can have reconciliation proposals, we can sign contracts, and hold press conferences, but if everything gets chaotic again after the election, then it’s meaningless...

 

 

 

[smedly]

4 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I think it's a no brainer who will win..........The Camouflage Party.

I don't see it

[smedly]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

 

Talking about " planted trolls" what is the appropriate term of approbation for a poster who believes that an elected government should be severely "dealt with" by a background military junta if they "step out of line" and " choose the wrong path".

I'm rather looking for a term which encapsulates a total disregard for the democratically expressed will of the people, together perhaps with open contempt for the wishes of those people. There were several political movements around in Europe in the 1930s which seem to fit the bill, but of course we can't use those labels can we....

and the alternative is ?

 

should I remind you

 

bah waste of time - your goal is something entirely different lol

 

but hey

 

since I didn't quote my posts I will just for you

 

1 hour ago, JAG said:

so what ?

 

better than a thief convicted criminal on the run living in a foreign country deciding on who should be Thailands PM

 

you really need a reality check - I actually think you are a planted troll here to get the numbers up, I can think of no other rational reason for your persistant nonsense

 

 

1 hour ago, JAG said:

I actually don't care because as soon as whoever it is steps out of line they will be held to account - something that has been severely lacking in Thailand .................................choose the wrong path and you will be exposed and severely dealt with - just how it should be

 

If the elected government works for the country and its people then they will have no problem at all

 

wow won't that be a first

 

in bold for effect

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

 

That was very interesting. What stands out is thailand will have a political system never tried anywhere else in the world. 

What I read between the lines of jade, Abhisit, military, Suthep is that everything is going to go smoothly as long as nobody votes for pt. The underlying message is always the threat that the shutdowns will continue if pt is voted in. Since all of the other parties are too small, I guess the new battle will be Suthep party and the Democrats. If I am alive and not senile by the time they get round to elections, it's going to be very interesting how all this plays out. 

Allen Hicken who is a noted Thai expert did a simulation looking at the 2011 election results and map that into the next election under the MMA system. His conclusion is that pro-Pheu Thai parties will get a diminished seats and so will Dem Party. Bulk of the seats will go to medium size parties. So you quite right. 

 

How this plays out would likely to be a repeat of 2009 with the military strong armed medium sized parties to back Ahbisit. If a crisis happen, we probably will see a unity government with you know who as unelected PM. The people who engineered the coup will engineered the next government. It will not go down well with the red shirts and there will be no reconciliation and peace until the establishment realize that they can't engineered people aspiration to chose their own leader.

[JAG]

Allen Hicken who is a noted Thai expert did a simulation looking at the 2011 election results and map that into the next election under the MMA system. His conclusion is that pro-Pheu Thai parties will get a diminished seats and so will Dem Party. Bulk of the seats will go to medium size parties. So you quite right. 
 
How this plays out would likely to be a repeat of 2009 with the military strong armed medium sized parties to back Ahbisit. If a crisis happen, we probably will see a unity government with you know who as unelected PM. The people who engineered the coup will engineered the next government. It will not go down well with the red shirts and there will be no reconciliation and peace until the establishment realize that they can't engineered people aspiration to chose their own leader.

And when they eventually realise that it is futile trying to engineer that process, they will just impose their choice.

[JAG]

in bold for effect

It's really very simple "Smedly", if we talk about goals...

My "goal" is for the government to be chosen by the people, regardless of which faction it is.

Your "goal" is to have the faction you favour ( a small, but very wealthy semi feudal elite) in power, and you quite accept - indeed seem to relish - that government being imposed by an authoritarian military junta.

For some the "means" justify the end, something which I understand but argue against; for you the "means" appear to be something to applaud -almost as an end in itself!

[smedly]

4 minutes ago, JAG said:

It's really very simple "Smedly", if we talk about goals...

My "goal" is for the government to be chosen by the people, regardless of which faction it is.

Your "goal" is to have the faction you favour ( a small, but very wealthy semi feudal elite) in power, and you quite accept - indeed seem to relish - that government being imposed by an authoritarian military junta.

are you really telling me how to think ? you do realise that in a real adult face to face conversation that would not be happening - you can take my word for that 100%

 

do you remember the TVF rule - discuss the post not the poster

 

you will never learn

 

and just to confirm what I actually do think

 

My goal is to have a workable democracy in Thailand for the first time ever - just so we are clear about that

 

The more I read your posts the more I think you are here just to troll and get the numbers up

 

I think I am going to have to deploy the ignore button which I have only used once before and filter out the infants

[JAG]

Above - I meant "the ends justify the means": left it to late to correct by editing.

[jayboy]

are you really telling me how to think ? you do realise that in a real adult face to face conversation that would not be happening - you can take my word for that 100%
 
do you remember the TVF rule - discuss the post not the poster
 
you will never learn
 
and just to confirm what I actually do think
 
My goal is to have a workable democracy in Thailand for the first time ever - just so we are clear about that
 
The more I read your posts the more I think you are here just to troll and get the numbers up
 
I think I am going to have to deploy the ignore button which I have only used once before and filter out the infants

Despite your semi educated bluster the fact is that your views were summarised very accurately.Your concept of a "working democracy" seems to imply military intervention whenever the Thai people choose a government not to the liking of the unelected elites.So Abhisit is right to suggest there is no end in sight to the misery and confusion.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[JAG]

are you really telling me how to think ? you do realise that in a real adult face to face conversation that would not be happening - you can take my word for that 100%

 

do you remember the TVF rule - discuss the post not the poster

 

you will never learn

 

and just to confirm what I actually do think

 

My goal is to have a workable democracy in Thailand for the first time ever - just so we are clear about that

 

The more I read your posts the more I think you are here just to troll and get the numbers up

 

I think I am going to have to deploy the ignore button which I have only used once before and filter out the infants

1. In a "real adult face to face conversation " I would quite happily say the same thing to your face.

2, I'm not telling you what to think. I'm telling you what I think about what you're saying - there is a difference.

3. There are a number of definitions of trolling, daring to disagree with you; and d daring to say so, are not as far as I am aware amongst them. Even my most vehement opponents here will I trust agree that I have taken a point of view, in which I believe deeply, and will always argue that point of view. I don't think that is trolling. If you do, rather than making threats and bluster, report me.

4. As for the ignore button, you crack on...

[Eric Loh]

Isn't not that a working democracy is one that has no seizure of power from an elected government and that people decide when the tenure of the sitting government expire. Smedly doesn't even know what he is talking. 

[greenchair]

35 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Isn't not that a working democracy is one that has no seizure of power from an elected government and that people decide when the tenure of the sitting government expire. Smedly doesn't even know what he is talking. 

The problem is the military must like the government that the people decide on. This is the continuing dilemma of all concerned. 

[johng]

The problem is the military must like the government that the people decide on. This is the continuing dilemma of all concerned. 

those first 5 words are most appropriate.

[jonclark]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

so what ?

 

better than a thief convicted criminal on the run living in a foreign country deciding on who should be Thailands PM

 

you really need a reality check - I actually think you are a planted troll here to get the numbers up, I can think of no other rational reason for your persistant nonsense

 

So  lets remove the Thaksin element for a hypothetical discussion. 

 

Do you think the senete with its hand picked composition of military men should be the ones deciding the PM after the election is finished and the winners and losers are known?

 

For me this is strange as the Thai people in effect walk into an election blind or at least partially as they have no idea if the senate will approve their party's nomination. It is likely that the party leader / figure head will be the presumed leader and electioneering will be held under that assumption.  

 

The solution must be that senate needs to give approval for the 'leaders' to be granted the right to become PM, before, the election campaigns start and honour their decision  irrespective of the outcome or margin of victory (see the above comment that Thaksin is not part of this discussion). the people must know who the PM will before so they can make a fully informed choice at the polls. 

 

[johng]

But with the latest "system" the people will know who the next PM will be even without the need to take a day off to go "voting" he'll be the one wearing green.

[JAG]

But with the latest "system" the people will know who the next PM will be even without the need to take a day off to go "voting" he'll be the one wearing green.

Or possibly the chap with the "Old Etonian" or Oxford University tie, standing next to the chaps in green .

They may well need a civilian to head things up - looks more, "reconciled " don't you know.