Sturgeon says UK PM May nudging Scotland towards second referendum

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

 Well not all Scotsmen agree with you.

 

 

 

Having never met Billy Connolly, I have never had the opportunity to put that question to him, but if I do meet him, rest assured that I will ask him to explain it also. 

 

But in the absence of anything tangible from you or Billy Connolly, I will continue to point out that you are peddling a myth based upon something I fail to understand. Why anyone would want to invent a lie and stick to it doggedly without any evidence to validate it is beyond me. 

[Baerboxer]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

A minority view doesn't make that wrong - but I tend to be a mirror when I respond. If you are respectful, I tend to be respectful in retort, regardless of how far apart our views may be. 

 

I agree - 59 is too many, but that is not the doing of Scots. You can probably blame labour for that, historically. I would support a reduction in numbers. As has been seen time and again, Scottish MPs carry little weight in Westminster. 

 

Exactly - it cannot. But how can that percentage (I think it is closer to 8%) ever feel part of the democratic process when their views are never reflected in Westminster policy? Easy - take Westminster out of the picture and everyone is happy. 

 

8% is likely the population of Scotland as a % of the UK. But not all of those can vote. And not all who can vote support the SNP and independence.

 

The fact is people all over the world are getting fed up with large bureaucratic inflexible government in which politicians see themselves as rulers rather than servers. Whether it's the UK, EU, USA, people are getting fed up with federalist globalization and want more accountable local governance. The whole system needs to change - not just moving the deck chairs around.

[Baerboxer]

17 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Well you can look at the evidence - all of them fundamentally opposed to independence since 2012. 

 

Worse than denial - not even realising that you cannot be allowed to form a balanced picture because there is a dearth of credible sources of information. 

 

So are they all presenting fake news then?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So are they all presenting fake news then?

No, I would say that they were all toeing their editorial lines, and it is undeniable that the majority of the printed media in the UK was against independence for Scotland (which is their right), as was the BBC (as demonstrated by empirical evidence, but is not allowed). 

[Baerboxer]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well what is your point? She faced a tough interviewer, one who is known to grill his targets, and who is known to have an extreme dislike of Scottish nationalism. She gave competent answers and acknowledged that the future is not guaranteed manna from heaven. 

 

She clearly knows her data, and responded calmly and competently despite his assertions that Scotland would be a poor man's Greece, ignoring years of stability and basing his assertions on a few years of instability in the oil market.

 

So, to go back to my opening question - what exactly would you like me to discuss?

 

I don't think she responded as well as you do. She seemed to be squirming on occasion and did the usual politician's trick of diverting or answering a different questions. Many times she either tried to blame Westminster to avoid a question completely or divert her answer to the UK rather than Scottish figures.

 

She's a politician and clearly can look after herself in the political arena. She wouldn't be ruling the SNP with her husband as party CEO if she wasn't.

 

You believe her, I don't. That's the difference which won't change.

[nontabury]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well what is your point? She faced a tough interviewer, one who is known to grill his targets, and who is known to have an extreme dislike of Scottish nationalism. She gave competent answers and acknowledged that the future is not guaranteed manna from heaven. 

 

She clearly knows her data, and responded calmly and competently despite his assertions that Scotland would be a poor man's Greece, ignoring years of stability and basing his assertions on a few years of instability in the oil market.

 

So, to go back to my opening question - what exactly would you like me to discuss?

 Admittedly the sound quality of this interview is not perfect. However I'm amazed you can possible state that N.S 

Gave competent answers. She knows her data.

What I would like you to discuss, is the ACTUAL FACTS presented by your fellow Scotsman A.N. Preferably without doing a Scottiah jig, as demonstrated by N.S.

 

 

 

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Thank you. I hope we have settled the matter now.

Gerrin quick, the Jock's stopped dripping at last.

 

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 Admittedly the sound quality of this interview is not perfect. However I'm amazed you can possible state that N.S 

Gave competent answers. She knows her data.

What I would like you to discuss, is the ACTUAL FACTS presented by your fellow Scotsman A.N. Preferably without doing a Scottiah jig, as demonstrated by N.S.

 

 

I appreciate that your contributions to TV do not amount to much more than you reposting some Facebook sh!tposts, but please try to demonstrate at least a bit of a grasp of that which you are posting. Simply posting a 15 minute video and shouting 'discuss' is not an argument. Please present your own analysis and I will respond. 

 

Let's not get petty into national stereotypes. When you do it, nobody bats an eyelid. Were I to riposte, I would be called anti-English before my keyboard stopped rattling. 

[nontabury]

21 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I appreciate that your contributions to TV do not amount to much more than you reposting some Facebook sh!tposts, but please try to demonstrate at least a bit of a grasp of that which you are posting. Simply posting a 15 minute video and shouting 'discuss' is not an argument. Please present your own analysis and I will respond. 

 

Let's not get petty into national stereotypes. When you do it, nobody bats an eyelid. Were I to riposte, I would be called anti-English before my keyboard stopped rattling. 

Facts, The video is from YouTube. Are you suggesting that Andrew Neil presented Un-true or unsubstantiated facts. By the way it was you that shouted "discuss"

  I can only assume you are incapable of doing so. My only question therefore, are your nightmares about Scottish separation, in Colour or Black and White.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by nontabury

[RuamRudy]

The term 'troll' gets thrown about too lightly on TV, in my opinion, however I think you are tending towards my definition. 

 

This is how your introduced the video, in direct response to me:

 

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

I recently copied this onto a similar thread. Surprisingly, or was it, you failed to respond.

 

I provided you with my thoughts in general but asked you what, specifically, you wanted me to reply to.

Your response was thus:

 

33 minutes ago, nontabury said:

What I would like you to discuss, is the ACTUAL FACTS presented by your fellow Scotsman A.N. Preferably without doing a Scottiah jig, as demonstrated by N.S.

I made it clear that I was not inclined to go through a 15 minute video and present you with a blow by blow rebuttal of Andrew Neil's points. I, not unreasonably, asked you to specify which points you thought I should respond to. I mean, heaven forbid one might actually make an incorrect assumption and conclude that you never actually watched the video, or if you did, that you don't have sufficient a grasp of the matter to allow you to form a cogent perspective of its contents. 

[nahkit]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

They weren't - this is based upon research and polling. 

 

I mentioned it because it was relevant to my correction of a mistake made in the OP. Try to read the context of a post rather than trying to latch onto the first little crack you think might give you an edge. 

Which mistake in the op were you correcting by separating the voters into Scots and those who weren't born there?

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Which mistake in the op were you correcting by separating the voters into Scots and those who weren't born there?

This one:

16 hours ago, Chicog said:

The majority of Scots voted to stay in the Union.

 

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

23 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Arrogant old sow. So many things could be said here (ungrateful and why are they're special etc), but she and those of her ilk are best ignored. Having said that, would love to see an independent Scotland, it'd be like a huge sigh of relief for everyone else, sort of like a split from an acrimonious marriage or the removal of ball&chain for a lifer on death row. 

Cracking comment 

horrible cow 

let's see how long a few pints of oil keeps them going 

 

& stop draining us along with everyone else 

 

then they can brush that chip of there shoulder & stand on there own feet or 4 if your NS. 

 

Lake District has everything they have at it takes far less time to get there ! Win win 

[RuamRudy]

Just now, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

Cracking comment 

horrible cow 

let's see how long a few pints of oil keeps them going 

 

& stop draining us along with everyone else 

 

then they can brush that chip of there shoulder & stand on there own feet or 4 if your NS. 

 

Lake District has everything they have at it takes far less time to get there ! Win win 

 

I think you win today;s  ThaiVisa anti-Scottish bingo. Let's see:

 

Baseless attack on our politicians - check

ill-educated attempt to run down our economy - check

ill-educated attempt to suggest we are scroungers - check

suggestion that anti-English sentiment is driving independence movement - check

bonus additional baseless ad hominem - check

 

Yes, the prize is yours - 62 words and nothing at all to offer other than an insight into your own personality. 

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I feel a touch of deja vu coming on...

Please show evidence of 'anti-English hatred'. Anything will do, any example welcome - I have asked this question repeatedly on TV and been left wanting each and every time.

In contrast, read through the current In Your Face Scottish independence threads and try to count the Scot bashing and compare that to the English bashing on the same thread. Then come back and whine about 'anti-English hatred'.

 

That miserable turd money grabber Andy Murry ? 

All paid for by the LTA ! 

 

Go on Andy give us a smile you robbed us then became "Scottish " 

 

RIP Colin MCRae you were quite happy for the support too 

until you made a few quid then stab us in the back too 

[dunroaming]

The situation in Britain is different from when the first Scottish referendum was held.  I think that Sturgeon should call a second one.  In doing so it would be a "back me or sack me" moment for her and she may just find the result would be for the latter.  On the other hand if she gets the backing then she is really is in the hot seat.  A case of be careful what you wish for.  The Scots are proud of their country even though most of them live elsewhere.  Maybe then only the Scottish people living in Scotland should be allowed to vote as it is them that will feel the consequences of a divorce from the UK.

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

20 hours ago, Grouse said:

Conditions have substantially changed since the first referendum both because of Brexit and the ramp up of anti-Scottish hate.

 

I think the Scots have an absolute right to choose their destiny

 

Personally, I see Scotland doing just fine as an independent state with membership of a union of civilised European countries.

I agree crack on ! 

[Flustered]

If Scotland is such a powerhouse and an idyllic heaven to live in, why do some 20% of the Scottish working population live and work in England

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

5 hours ago, gamini said:

I hope Scotland becomes independent and I will get a Scottish passport and be able to remain a member of the EU. Hopefully Northern Ireland and Wales will do the same. Britain will be no longer be the United Kingdom and British passports will probably change from United Kingdom to simply English.

Happy to be English thanks it's what I always write on entry anyway ......

[nontabury]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think you win today;s  ThaiVisa anti-Scottish bingo. Let's see:

 

Baseless attack on our politicians - check

ill-educated attempt to run down our economy - check

ill-educated attempt to suggest we are scroungers - check

suggestion that anti-English sentiment is driving independence movement - check

bonus additional baseless ad hominem - check

 

Yes, the prize is yours - 62 words and nothing at all to offer other than an insight into your own personality. 

Yet when you were given the opportunity to refute Andrew Neil's facts regarding the SNP distortion of the Scottish economy, you failed to respond.

 It's just a pity that you cannot dribble a football as good as you can dribble around the obvious discrepancies in the policies of the SNP. If you were,then Scotland would be world champions.

 

 

 

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

54 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think you win today;s  ThaiVisa anti-Scottish bingo. Let's see:

 

Baseless attack on our politicians - check

ill-educated attempt to run down our economy - check

ill-educated attempt to suggest we are scroungers - check

suggestion that anti-English sentiment is driving independence movement - check

bonus additional baseless ad hominem - check

 

Yes, the prize is yours - 62 words and nothing at all to offer other than an insight into your own personality. 

Glad you liked it and it got your attention 

[Grouse]

Sadly, the tone of this discussion has become grossly unpleasant again. No doubt Mods will note

 

I thought the "hard talk" between Sturgeon and our erstwhile Sunday Times editor was good. Fair shots landed both ways. I thought Sturgeon stood up pretty well to a fierce battering.

 

Let the Scots decide their own destiny. 

[RuamRudy]

Yet when you were given the opportunity to refute Andrew Neil's facts regarding the SNP distortion of the Scottish economy, you failed to respond.
 It's just a pity that you cannot dribble a football as good as you can dribble around the obvious discrepancies in the policies of the SNP. If you were,then Scotland would be world champions.
 
 
 

So which is it? Did you not watch the full 15 minutes or are you simply not up to forming a position of your own?

[Flustered]

57 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Let the Scots decide their own destiny. 

They did, they had in Alex Salmonds words "A once in a lifetime" opportunity to become independent.

 

They chose overwhelmingly to stay in the UK.

[dunroaming]

17 minutes ago, Flustered said:

They did, they had in Alex Salmonds words "A once in a lifetime" opportunity to become independent.

 

They chose overwhelmingly to stay in the UK.

That is true but that was before Brexit came a calling.  Which is maybe a comparison as well.  We voted happily enough to join the EU at the time because it was obviously the best thing for Britain.  Now we have voted to leave because it no longer is thought to be the best thing for Britain (albeit by a narrow margin).

 

It is not a matter of changing your mind, it is a matter of changing circumstances.

[Flustered]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

That is true but that was before Brexit came a calling.  Which is maybe a comparison as well.  We voted happily enough to join the EU at the time because it was obviously the best thing for Britain.  Now we have voted to leave because it no longer is thought to be the best thing for Britain (albeit by a narrow margin).

 

It is not a matter of changing your mind, it is a matter of changing circumstances.

We never voted to join the EU, we were dragged into it by successive Governments.

 

We voted on the EEC which was an economic not a politic union.

 

And Scotland was well aware of the potential to leave the EU or are you saying that Scots are not well informed or educated in such matters.

 

OK, we all give up, just keep on voting until you get the result that you want. never mind those who were against leaving the UK, never mind democracy, just go with the the minority.

[dlodratsab]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

They did, they had in Alex Salmonds words "A once in a lifetime" opportunity to become independent.

 

They chose overwhelmingly to stay in the UK.

Ok.....So now let the English have a referendum....to dump the Scots or No.....my money is on the former. Let them go !!!

[3NUMBAS]

Let them head over the cliff then ...They can't survive on their own without the freebies

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

4 hours ago, dlodratsab said:

Ok.....So now let the English have a referendum....to dump the Scots or No.....my money is on the former. Let them go !!!

Cracking ! ?

[nahkit]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

This one:

 

 

 

Interesting, so those people who live there and were allowed to vote but don't meet the born in Scotland criteria, what are the plans for them if Scotland ever does gain independance?

 

(No idea why your post isn't showing up in the quotes box)

Edited March 2, 2017 by nahkit