Are HD prices about to fall?

[AllanB]

Just listened to Trumpy in his speech to congress, he talked specifically about Harley Davidson and he is demanding drops in duties imposed by foreign countries on such US built goods.

 

So a new Harley Sportster at 200k baht...worth a look?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Yes.  I heard that part of the speech also.

 

Hopefully America will go through with this...That is, reciprocate high taxes on imports from other countries.  Lets see how Thailand likes those apples.  

 

If you already own a ridiculously overpriced HD in Thailand, maybe time to sell before it drops 100 percent in value.

[canthai55]

Cheapest Sportster - 631,000. Think you will see a price reduction of almost 400,000 ?

[Richard-BKK]

Even if the import duty will drop to something like 50% of what it is now, the amount of units sold extra will be marginal. We have seen this with KTM, that are now imported at a much lower import duty, and the price for Thailand also went down a good amount… but the amount of units sold is not much different.

 

The answer is that even if the import duty is much lower, imported motorcycles are still not cheap...

[Bulldozer Dawn]

9 hours ago, Richard-BKK said:

Even if the import duty will drop to something like 50% of what it is now, the amount of units sold extra will be marginal. We have seen this with KTM, that are now imported at a much lower import duty, and the price for Thailand also went down a good amount… but the amount of units sold is not much different.

 

The answer is that even if the import duty is much lower, imported motorcycles are still not cheap...

Richard

 

You make a good point buy maybe not all there is to it.

 

Many years ago when I was studying for my doctorate I reviewed a case study on Mercedes Benz.  

 

The big wigs at Merc were concerned that they were losing market share to BMW because they had cheaper models.

 

In response, Merc lowered its pricing...and...as a result...sales went DOWN further.

 

They scratched their heads and then they decided to INCREASE their pricing.

 

Sales subsequently went up.

 

What this demonstrates is that pricing is not just about money, it also contributes to the perception of a product and its status.

 

If Harleys drop in price here by 50%, sales may also plummet as well.  Here in Thailand "face" is everything after all.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Bulldozer Dawn

[biker Bob]

How much has Triumph sales gone up after the tax reduction? 

[Richard-BKK]

With Triumph a few more things happened besides the lower sales price. Before we only had Brithbike (http://www.britbike.co.th) that sold and imported Triumph motorcycles for Thailand. Currently we have the manufacturer themselves active (http://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.th) on the Thai market and doing a much more professional marketing.

 

A second thing is that Brithbike not had many models that I always found perfect for the Thai market. For instance, the Triumph Bonneville Bobber is not available through Brithbike, but Triumph Thailand dealers have them for 570,000 THB.

 

To be honest, and maybe I’m wrong. It is not so much about how much more Triumph motorcycles were sold after the price went down… the real question is how much more motorcycles did Brithbike sold after the price went down...

[biker Bob]

50 minutes ago, Richard-BKK said:

With Triumph a few more things happened besides the lower sales price. Before we only had Brithbike (http://www.britbike.co.th) that sold and imported Triumph motorcycles for Thailand. Currently we have the manufacturer themselves active (http://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.th) on the Thai market and doing a much more professional marketing.

 

A second thing is that Brithbike not had many models that I always found perfect for the Thai market. For instance, the Triumph Bonneville Bobber is not available through Brithbike, but Triumph Thailand dealers have them for 570,000 THB.

 

To be honest, and maybe I’m wrong. It is not so much about how much more Triumph motorcycles were sold after the price went down… the real question is how much more motorcycles did Brithbike sold after the price went down...

 

Yes, I guess you are right, but the price reduction must have played a part.  I think I read somewhere they dropped like 300.000 Baht overnight.  I am sure that boosted the sales as well.

[eisfeld]

With Triumph it was the combination of factors like mentioned. Before it was "not run by the manufacturer with high import taxes and not much dealer support". Now it's "run by the manufacturer with much better prices and increased dealer network". Any of the three factors (who/price/dealer network) would have been a show stopper for me and surely plenty others. Now it's a much more compelling offering. Also helps to have a good range of new models with very positive reviews.

[biker Bob]

17 hours ago, eisfeld said:

With Triumph it was the combination of factors like mentioned. Before it was "not run by the manufacturer with high import taxes and not much dealer support". Now it's "run by the manufacturer with much better prices and increased dealer network". Any of the three factors (who/price/dealer network) would have been a show stopper for me and surely plenty others. Now it's a much more compelling offering. Also helps to have a good range of new models with very positive reviews.

 

You are probably right.  I can only speak for myself but without a good dealer network, and a decent price  I wouldn't buy any bike.  

[AllanB]

On 02/03/2017 at 0:03 AM, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Richard

 

You make a good point buy maybe not all there is to it.

 

Many years ago when I was studying for my doctorate I reviewed a case study on Mercedes Benz.  

 

The big wigs at Merc were concerned that they were losing market share to BMW because they had cheaper models.

 

In response, Merc lowered its pricing...and...as a result...sales went DOWN further.

 

They scratched their heads and then they decided to INCREASE their pricing.

 

Sales subsequently went up.

 

What this demonstrates is that pricing is not just about money, it also contributes to the perception of a product and its status.

 

If Harleys drop in price here by 50%, sales may also plummet as well.  Here in Thailand "face" is everything after all.

One thing they should have taught you is this only applies to premium products, by lowering the prices the perception is that you have lowered the quality....and this was actually true in the case of Mercedes.

 

HD is not a premium product, plus if the public know the reason for the reduction it will have a positive effect to sales volumes....and "The Don" knows this.

 

My company make large animal lifting harnesses (the best on the market by a good margin) and for a combination of reasons mainly down to my lack of attention to costs, we were forced to put our prices up by 30%. Sales went up by 400%, as suddenly the true value was realised.

 

So it greatly depends on the product, HD has an "image" and that is about all and that image is not going to adversely effected by a tax drop,

[Richard-BKK]

According to Harley-Davidson they’re not only a Premium Brand, they’re the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment… One of the Harley-Davidson top bobo’s said “We are the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment in the country. Harley-Davidson is proud to lead the way in developing a strong leisure motorcycling culture”

[sebastion]

I had sportster 48. It's pretty useless in Thailand. I wouldn't buy another at half the cost.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, Richard-BKK said:

According to Harley-Davidson they’re not only a Premium Brand, they’re the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment… One of the Harley-Davidson top bobo’s said “We are the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment in the country. Harley-Davidson is proud to lead the way in developing a strong leisure motorcycling culture”

 

I overheard Mr Levatic  say " our bikes are just the biggest piece of crap", Now I don't normally believe what I am told by persons with a vestured interest, but that does make perfect sense.

 

 

[biker Bob]

3 hours ago, Richard-BKK said:

According to Harley-Davidson they’re not only a Premium Brand, they’re the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment… One of the Harley-Davidson top bobo’s said “We are the undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment in the country. Harley-Davidson is proud to lead the way in developing a strong leisure motorcycling culture”

 

 

5555555 my ar**

[eisfeld]

When thinking Premium I think of luxury, quality, performance. HD doesn't come to my mind in these three aspects. I never rode any HD but that's the image they have to me. They are more associated with biker gangs and tattoos than the word premium. Noone is going think "oh, impressive!" when seeing a Harley rider. They probably think "uh, better not f. with this guy, he probably has some scary friends". When I see HD riders in Phuket they usally are wearing gang/club jackets, tattood, overly loud (I say that as a Ducati with Termi owner). Reduced prices most definitely would help with sales, their image is not going to suffer because of that.

 

To be clear: the above is a stereotype and not a factual analysis. But it nonetheless affects their brand and sales.

[canthai55]

Interested to hear what people think are "Premium Brands"  And why you think so. Quality of product ? Performance ? Cachet ? Or do you have your own meaning ?

 

[Hereinthailand]

I wouldnt buy one but premium or not they sell quite well in the US. Other than the sport bike segment big bike sales are mostly HD's.. 

[guzzi850m2]

Funny with all the HD hate guys here, okay one owned a 48 so i can respect his opinion but people not owning one, I don't.

I owned a Road King for over 3 years and it was the most comfortable 2up bike you can get, back rest for my wife. It never broke down but got us to our destination in style and comfort. At one hotel we parked right at the stair entrance to the lobby at the owners insisting so the reception girls could keep an eye on it. One time the police halted green light traffic at an intersection so we could pass and not split up the 8 HD convoy.

So there you are, my real experience riding America iron.

 

[eisfeld]

Hey guzzi just to clarify: I don't hate HD. Am sure they have some super comfy bikes for cruising along. And am sure there's plenty of very nice people riding them. HD used to be one of those "American Freedom" symbols and I think for good reason. I think they have some really cool looking bikes. Like you said, it got style. Nonetheless nowerdays the HD riders that I see *here in Phuket* mostly are heavily tattooed guys, wearing club jackets and doing probably 150dB. It's a stereotype like I said but stereotypes have an ounce of truth in them

 

"Undisputed leader in the premium motorcycle segment" is actually probably true if you think about the US market. HD sells tons of bikes there and the other bikes that they probably categorize as premium (supersports, expensive big tourers etc) are fairly spread out between the other manufacturers. HD does 8 out of the top 10 cruisers sold. They own more than a third of the US motorcycle market according to some stats that I found quickly.

[guzzi850m2]

When I rode HD, I rode some trips with HOG, a group of grown up, laid-back expat guys. No alcohol when riding but some in the evenings, non violent, not against other brand of bikes (mostly).

HOG is the biggest motorcycle club in the world.

Okay I too will not pay those prices for them anymore, next bike will very likely be one of the Triumph Twins, I love all bikes and will never be a brand bitch, it's stupid, all brands make some good bikes but perhaps not suiting you for one reason or the other.

[canthai55]

14 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Funny with all the HD hate guys here,

From guys who have never sat on one, let alone rode or owned one. My Dyna is made for the open road. Want to go to Singapore ? Made to eat up the miles in comfort. Rode it on the MHS loop many times, but you got to work at it. Cruise the Super Slab - that where it likes it. Premium ? The best tool for the job. And nuthin' sounds like a HD

[thaiguzzi]

If you like performance, handling, braking, like i do, Harley's will do it. They just don't do it stock out of the showroom. Handling and braking is not on the AVERAGE American HD owner's agenda. Performance is.

 I've worked on most HD's pre FI Twin Cams. I owned an FXR (best big twin HD ever made IMO) for many years in the UK, and toured with it all over Europe many times. Never let me down, would cruise at ANY speed my body could handle, 80-90-100-110 mph. Go round corners like it was on rails. Brake like a modern bike.  But... it was not stock...

Quality tyres.

Billet 6 pot front caliper on a 13" floating disc.

PS front fork springs.

Koni shocks.

Andrews cam.

S&S carb.

Nice pipes.

etc etc

 

... i loved that bike. It was bought from "family",  and when i sold it, to a very, very close friend, it still remains in the "family" to this day. Actually part ex with the bike in my avatar...

 

People who've never ridden a "well set up" Harley will never understand, and just don't get it. And chrome, farkles, and bling have got NOTHING to do with it.

[canthai55]

Mine has 6 piston PM brakes - twin up front, single read. Andrews cams, Port and Polish, adjustable forks and shocks from a Sport. Stock head pipes with the balance tube to enhance midrange, but slip-on mufflers. Sets of car alarms no problem. Passed a guy on a CB400 on the MHS loop once - in a corner - bet he still cleaning his shorts ! Had an FXRS-SP back in the day. My first Dyna-like bike.

[thaiguzzi]

Choice:-

Nice Ducati Monster M900, S2R, 796, 1100, all air cooled,

Or,

well sorted 1200 Sportster.

the Ducati's will have more top end bhp, but much less torque where it matters (low down -mid range) on the street, and the Sporty is much more easier to work on and service.

Give me the HD any day over the Monster (bar a really really nice S2R 1000....)....

[eisfeld]

I think HD doesn't really mind the bad boy image :)

 

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by eisfeld

[petesc55]

Harley didn't mind import tariffs on Japanese bikes in the 80's.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/04/02/business/us-raises-tariff-for-motorcycles.html