Pigs

[Isan999]

have you not got a slaughter house near by that will take the lot off you, they won't give you as good a price as selling privately but if you want to get rid of them quickly that maybe the way to go.

BB

We tray to find one but we do not find it!

Maybe You have one near You, maybe you have tel. number for me?

[Isan999]

OK nobody for 70.000 bht than i will try it for 50.000 bht lower i don't can go than this

this is really a give away Pryce i think

tel. 0816263806

Bt50,000 is a great buy for someone. Distance puts me off. Why don't you post your offer in the Issan Forum?

Good luck

Khonwan

Good idee i go try it thx

[OneeyedJohn]

Everytime I feed our growers I feel as if money is just slipping out of my pocket. Therefore I'm going to try this little scheme in my village this week.

It is a Pig Raffle where I sell tickets @ 10 Baht each hopefully selling at least 200 and the prize will be a 50 - 60 Kilo pig.

The winner can choose to have it delivered on the hoof or pre-slaughtered all at my expense.

What do you think my chances are :- 1) selling no more than 50 tickets

2) selling less than 100 tickets

3) selling more than 200 tickets

4) getting laughed out of the village....babababong farang

I chose the 10 Baht ticket price as hopefully people will buy more than one.

[chownah]

What are your chances of getting arrested....have you arranged to bribe the local authorities before you start your illegal gambling scheme?

[Khonwan]

Everytime I feed our growers I feel as if money is just slipping out of my pocket. Therefore I'm going to try this little scheme in my village this week.

It is a Pig Raffle where I sell tickets @ 10 Baht each hopefully selling at least 200 and the prize will be a 50 - 60 Kilo pig.

The winner can choose to have it delivered on the hoof or pre-slaughtered all at my expense.

What do you think my chances are :- 1) selling no more than 50 tickets

2) selling less than 100 tickets

3) selling more than 200 tickets

4) getting laughed out of the village....babababong farang

I chose the 10 Baht ticket price as hopefully people will buy more than one.

If serious, you'd probably require a licence (which I'm sure you'd be highly unlikely to get) just as you would in UK, but then again, this is Thailand! BTW, how many pigs do you still have? I only have four left destined for my freezer as soon as my local "butcher" has time.

[OneeyedJohn]

I have 9 growers left all about 50kilos. 2 sows and 2 runts.

Have just learnt that village folk here would not even bother buying tickets...their attitude being -"What would I do with a fifty kilo pig"?

I would need to find roughly 100 farangs with deep freezers to make this silly idea work.

[Khonwan]

I have 9 growers left all about 50kilos. 2 sows and 2 runts.

Have just learnt that village folk here would not even bother buying tickets...their attitude being -"What would I do with a fifty kilo pig"?

I would need to find roughly 100 farangs with deep freezers to make this silly idea work.

I'd sell them easily around my village but, in respect of my remaining four, I'd rather eat them than sell for 30-35 baht per kg. I think it will be October before we start to see worthwhile prices again.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Khonwan]

Thai swine production expected to decline in 2007

[4 April 2007] Thailand’s swine production is expected to drop to 13.18 million heads, a decline of 9.19% or 1.33 million heads from a year earlier due mostly to low prices, said the Office of Agricultural Economics (OAE) at the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives.Swine raisers came out with production cut back measures to tackle low prices in 2006. The measures included elimination of aging sows, delaying mating for 4 weeks, culling the sows at five parities, taking 30-40 kilograms pigs to roasting for export and destroying one piglet per litter. The OAE forecast that low prices could encourage exports in 2007. However, the increase will be just slight as Thailand still faces tough competition with China in major export markets like Japan and Hong Kong. Also, the stronger baht is also unfavorable to exports. It said Thailand’s pork and pork product exports will not exceed 12,000 tonnes in 2007.

Thailand to boost pork exports to lift prices

[26 February 2007] Thailand plans to increase pork exports in an attempt to boost local pig prices, Minister for Agriculture and Cooperatives Mr Thira Sutabot said. Oversupply has brought ex-farm price of live pigs in Thailand to about THB 30 (USD 0.90)/kg in early 2007 from THB 45-50 (USD 1.35-1.50/kg) in 2006 as farmers increased production. Production cost average THB 40-42 (USD 1.20-1.26)/kg. Thai pig farmers and processors have also agreed to reduce production to tackle the oversupply problem, however, this measure is noncompulsory and some farmers and processors are still reluctant to comply.

Thailand trims pig production

[15 February 2007] Thai pig farmers have agreed to cut production to tackle an oversupply problem that has caused a sharp drop in pig price. The price of live pigs in Thailand fell to THB 30/kg from THB 45-50/kg in 2006 as farmers increased production. Their production cost averages at THB 40-42/kg. The Thai Swine Raisers Association of Thailand estimated that the number of sows in the country amounted to about 900,000 heads in early 2007 or 20% in excess of the demand. The association members have agreed to cull 40,000 piglets per month, starting February 12, 2007. They also resolved to cull sows at five parities, take 30-40kg pigs to roasting for export, destroy one piglet per litter and cull 10% of sows on production.

Copyright Asian Agribusiness Publications Pte Ltd http://asiaagri1.pnpsolutions.net/

[Somtham]

Thai swine production expected to decline in 2007

[4 April 2007] Thailand’s swine production is expected to drop to 13.18 million heads, a decline of 9.19% or 1.33 million heads from a year earlier due mostly to low prices, said the Office of Agricultural Economics (OAE) at the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives.Swine raisers came out with production cut back measures to tackle low prices in 2006. The measures included elimination of aging sows, delaying mating for 4 weeks, culling the sows at five parities, taking 30-40 kilograms pigs to roasting for export and destroying one piglet per litter. The OAE forecast that low prices could encourage exports in 2007. However, the increase will be just slight as Thailand still faces tough competition with China in major export markets like Japan and Hong Kong. Also, the stronger baht is also unfavorable to exports. It said Thailand’s pork and pork product exports will not exceed 12,000 tonnes in 2007.

Thailand to boost pork exports to lift prices

[26 February 2007] Thailand plans to increase pork exports in an attempt to boost local pig prices, Minister for Agriculture and Cooperatives Mr Thira Sutabot said. Oversupply has brought ex-farm price of live pigs in Thailand to about THB 30 (USD 0.90)/kg in early 2007 from THB 45-50 (USD 1.35-1.50/kg) in 2006 as farmers increased production. Production cost average THB 40-42 (USD 1.20-1.26)/kg. Thai pig farmers and processors have also agreed to reduce production to tackle the oversupply problem, however, this measure is noncompulsory and some farmers and processors are still reluctant to comply.

Thailand trims pig production

[15 February 2007] Thai pig farmers have agreed to cut production to tackle an oversupply problem that has caused a sharp drop in pig price. The price of live pigs in Thailand fell to THB 30/kg from THB 45-50/kg in 2006 as farmers increased production. Their production cost averages at THB 40-42/kg. The Thai Swine Raisers Association of Thailand estimated that the number of sows in the country amounted to about 900,000 heads in early 2007 or 20% in excess of the demand. The association members have agreed to cull 40,000 piglets per month, starting February 12, 2007. They also resolved to cull sows at five parities, take 30-40kg pigs to roasting for export, destroy one piglet per litter and cull 10% of sows on production.

Copyright Asian Agribusiness Publications Pte Ltd http://asiaagri1.pnpsolutions.net/

and so much for trying to make a profit growing pigs...

...and when will Bangkok Pork reduce their prices for smoked bacon, pork sausages, and sliced ham for sandwiches?

NEVER.

rgds

[RamdomChances]

price of live pigs in Thailand to about THB 30 (USD 0.90)/kg in early 2007

Production cost average THB 40-42 (USD 1.20-1.26)/kg

:0 Thems tough numbers to be trying to make a profit

[Khonwan]

price of live pigs in Thailand to about THB 30 (USD 0.90)/kg in early 2007

Production cost average THB 40-42 (USD 1.20-1.26)/kg

:0 Thems tough numbers to be trying to make a profit

The production costs have been inflated by 5-7 baht IMO, but the 30 baht sales price just isn't available from slaughterers. I didn't bother selling the last of my four pigs: 3 are now in my freezer and the fourth is being given to a helpful village friend.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Lickey]

Hi Khonwan, the ms farm doesnt have any livestock, it has Papaya,tamarind, kanoon,few banana plants,mango,all sorts really, in january we cleared a bit of waste ground, made 12 3mtr by 1 mtr raised seed beds, planted all sorts of stuff, oinions, garlic, lettuce, makua, cucumbers,melon, this was all done as a test to see what would grow with the least problems, onions garlic and lettuce won hands down! sold the first lot this week to local market, made 1100bht, and im sure the bag of dried pig shit brother in law gave us helped no end, if your pigs had there own piece of ground to roam on, try doing the same, Thais love there salad, good luck, Lickey,,

[aqua4]

What do you do with the waste after cleaning the pens and they are nitrogen rich and tends in affect the ground water for miles around.

[teletiger]

This is the bottom of the pork market, right? Good time to buy in?

I can buy 18/20 kilo piglets, from the Pak Chong research station, now for 690 baht. (vaccinated and castrated)

I've just finished converting a feedlot barn over to pigstys. 8 4m x 5m enclosures.

I'm girding my loins to buy 100 to start with.

60, I'll feed with commercial feed and 40 I'll feed with my own concoction. (18% protein @ 6 Baht per kilo)

Amino acid ratios are difficult to calculate....but I feel I'm close enough to requirements.... and what did we do before them? What was the ratio in swill?

The problem I've got is, will the price of pork still be 28 Baht per kilo, on the hoof, in 4 months time?

Any opinions gratefully recieved.

Regards

[Khonwan]

...The problem I've got is, will the price of pork still be 28 Baht per kilo, on the hoof, in 4 months time?....

We'll be into the period of keen jay at that time (I wish my wife was still awake to explain this better and clarify dates!), when many folks don't eat meat, thereby depressing the price of pork. From memory, the price was around 37 baht at that time last year. I doubt if it will be any higher this year - probably less (my guess - ca.34 baht). My guess is around 37-40 baht around October (keen jay ends just before this from memory). Just my personal feeling though. I'll try and confirm the keen jay dates tomorrow.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Khonwan]

Pigfarmer,

I've noticed you've just joined. Welcome. Given the name you've chosen, I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences here. Please share your ideas with us.

Rgds

Khonwan

[COXYATCITY]

yes mate,lost a lot of money this year,but have learned a lot,now things are starting to go o.k,as long as the price of pork stays where it is ,and the food stops going up,things should be good from now on,,

good luck if you do this,but be prepared to learn,it is not easy,(piglet suppliers,what food company to buy from,diseases ,.vacinations ,medications,,sharks coming to your farm offering well below the price of pork,dodgy breeders selling you pigs that do not grow big enough,and more.,

good luck

Ian.

[khunMato]

Hi!

I am not sure if this is the standard here at Thai Visa, but I thought that I would try to start some new life into this thread.

I have a new questions regarding pig farming that I hoped someone could be so kind to answer.

First of all, is this a good way to invest your money? We are not hoping to become millionaires buy doing this, just creating a better life for ourselves. Get a way from the stress hand hassle we live under, here in Sweden.

I and the Mrs are planning to go ahead and invest in some pigs. The land, of 12 rai, that she possesses is in Mahasarakham Province. Does anyone know any good reliable breeder in that area?

I´ve read in former post in this thread that one good way to get rid of the manure is to feed it to the fishes. There is a smaller fish pond on her land now that I thought we could increase the size of. What would be a good size fish pond, for about 150 pigs and their manure? Do we have enough space to accommodate that amount of pigs and for the pond? Is there another good/better way of handling with the manure, to make biogas for example?

I understand that since this thread was active the price per kg has gone up on the meet. This should mean that the all of you whom made an average of 1000 bht per pig, makes more money at present date than you did before. Is this the case or has the price of nutrient, medicine and so forth gone up as well? I.e. how much do you guys make at the moment per pig?

Regards,

Mato

Edited June 6, 2011 by khunMato

[IsaanAussie]

Mato,

The simple answer is that right now the maths are very much in favour of the grower, but it is only a few months ago that the business was marginal and 500 baht per pig was the average profit. Currently I have sold at 73 baht per kg for finished pigs. Piglets are equally scarce and are attracting over 2,000 baht a head.

Recent events in most of Isaan include a major outbreak of PRRS with many pigs lost to it and huge damage done to the industry. The normal endemic diseases are always around and I would suggest present in many more herds than most think.

As stock levels recover the live weight prices will reduce. But looking at the grains industry around the world the feed prices will continue to climb. Right now the sun is shining but beware we are entering the rainy season after all.

Last year the price was around 63 baht for most of the year and things seemed about balanced. Then CP Foods dropped the live price to 58 baht with a single announcement.

Just remember it is a business, a seasonal one and one that is very much dependant on the whims of large vertically integrated corporate farmers. Do the homework on local markets and value added income potentials. Also have a close look at where the neighbours are in relation to your site. You should check with the local authorities for planning and health approvals.

For me the pond idea is a no way opinion and biogas is admirable but not practical here unless you intend to do it yourself or are lucky enough to have a well educated herdsman. I use the excrement to make compost which I have a market for.

There are a few of us westerners that are breeding pigs in Isaan that can help you with stock of differing breeds. I breed durocs and will soon be introducing a landrace duroc first cross as well. Beware the disease issues.

Isaan Aussie

[khunMato]

There are a few of us westerners that are breeding pigs in Isaan that can help you with stock of differing breeds.

Isaan Aussie

Always good to know that you are not alone..

--

I have a friend whose family have been in the pig industry for many generations, he have given me many pointers. This is back home here in Europe.

What would you say that is the biggest difference in pig farming between Europe and Thailand. Other than the obvious; like the weather, the difference culture and so on.

--

The most sustainable business you can do on the dry land of Isaan is to breed pigs, according to my wife that is. Does everyone agree? Or is there anyone out there with another opinion?

Thank you again.

Mato

[Scully]

Having not posted in this forum for a long time as I am back in the UK but only for 6 more weeks , I will give an update.

I will not go into why I returned however it was a case of needing to return and not through choice.

Anyway before I start ranting approximately a year ago myself and my GF decided to invest in a pig farm, starting off by buying piglets and raising for slaughter. The farm is on land already owned by family so it was investment in housing, water pump,access road etc etc which was carried out solely by myself and GF's family.

This kept prices to a minimum with all materials and costs to just below 100 thousand baht.

When we first started out the first six months were very much of a worry, pork prices were low due to seasonal factors and we were only breaking even on our first and second batch of raised pigs. Through plenty of research (also this forum), hard work and a little luck we started to make money on our third batch.

Buying pigs monthly and having housing for ninety pigs we are now in profit .

Pig farming is not as easy as you may think and it takes time to source good contacts from suppliers and buyers alike. This said I do not regret it one little bit as we have enjoyed the ups and the downs, and while I am away it gives my GF and family a good living while putting more cash into our bank account.

We now have two pregnant sows and are going to carry on expanding as it's a life we enjoy.

This life is not for everyone so start slowly and don't invest what you cannot afford to lose.

Good luck.

[IsaanAussie]

Hi!

First of all, is this a good way to invest your money?

I understand that since this thread was active the price per kg has gone up on the meet. This should mean that the all of you whom made an average of 1000 bht per pig, makes more money at present date than you did before. Is this the case or has the price of nutrient, medicine and so forth gone up as well? I.e. how much do you guys make at the moment per pig?

Regards,

Mato

I have been thinking about answering this question quite a lot lately as I seem to get asked every week. So here is a partial answer based on my current operation of farrow to finish. The costs are based on my feed usage and the sow costs are based on actuals. The price at sale is based on the current 73 baht rate for pigs above 60 kgs. Below 60 Kg prices are calculated based on standard industry norms. The percentages are gross margins so dont get too excited by the potential.

Current costing 2-5-11(litter size).pdf

Isaan Aussie

[khunMato]

Hi!

First of all, is this a good way to invest your money?

I understand that since this thread was active the price per kg has gone up on the meet. This should mean that the all of you whom made an average of 1000 bht per pig, makes more money at present date than you did before. Is this the case or has the price of nutrient, medicine and so forth gone up as well? I.e. how much do you guys make at the moment per pig?

Regards,

Mato

I have been thinking about answering this question quite a lot lately as I seem to get asked every week. So here is a partial answer based on my current operation of farrow to finish. The costs are based on my feed usage and the sow costs are based on actuals. The price at sale is based on the current 73 baht rate for pigs above 60 kgs. Below 60 Kg prices are calculated based on standard industry norms. The percentages are gross margins so dont get too excited by the potential.

Current costing 2-5-11(litter size).pdf

Isaan Aussie

Thank you very much Isaan Aussie. It is much appreciated.

Mato

[Scully]

We read in former post in this thread that one good way to get rid of the manure is to feed it to the fishes. There is a smaller fish pond on her land now that I thought we could increase the size of. What would be a good size fish pond, for about 150 pigs and their manure? Do we have enough space to accommodate that amount of pigs and for the pond? Is there another good/better way of handling with the manure, to make biogas for example?

I understand that since this thread was active the price per kg has gone up on the meet. This should mean that the all of you whom made an average of 1000 bht per pig, makes more money at present date than you did before. Is this the case or has the price of nutrient, medicine and so forth gone up as well? I.e. how much do you guys make at the moment per pig?

Regards,

Mato

On our farm we have a pond and buy fish for 300 baht for 1000 from a government fish farm. The amount of pig crap we produce is far too much to put in a small pond (30m by 30m), so we have a large concrete drying area as far away as possible (due to smell) which is also where we grow chicken. The pig sh1t creates thousands of maggots and the chicken eat these getting them fat and stopping flies, we then sell the dry sh1t per bag.

150 pigs are going to create a lot of sh1t and also liquid waste which you will need to deal with, we have a pump for the liquid waste which is pumped down channels in between guava trees making sure the waste is nowhere near the actual trees to stop scorching. This is hardly ideal as it's a little harsh to put directly on crops so I am open to ideas.

Nobody can predict price per kg however last year it started dropping in July and bottoming in November(51 baht a kg I think?), we all have to be aware of price fluctuations and not do our forcasts from top price. Which you are most probably aware of.

Do you have any ideas what you want to feed your pigs?.

[khunMato]

Do you have any ideas what you want to feed your pigs?.

Not sure yet. I think though that we will go with a premixed type, at least in the beginning. Any tips?

we have a large concrete drying area as far away as possible (due to smell) which is also where we grow chicken. The pig sh1t creates thousands of maggots and the chicken eat these getting them fat and stopping flies, we then sell the dry sh1t per bag.

Good idea. Do you pack the bags yourselves or do a company come to retrieve it?

--

I´ve come across a more trivial issue though, water. As I understand it, one of the best ways to prevent decease among the pigs is to clean them regularly. I assume that the prevention of decease (by daily showers) along with the normal consumption of water adds up to a substantial amount. The plot of land we intend to use for our pig farm is a couple of kilometres from any communal water supply. Do all of you have communal water, or is there anyone who gets their water supply from a groundwater well? Would it be (to) risky to relay on a groundwater well?

Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to have communal water installed, per meter/km?

After a running-in period we intend to have 200+ pigs at our farm. This is the reason behind my "water worries". Also, as explained before, our land is just outside Maha Sarakham. I don't know is there is plentiful of groundwater in the area. I do know that rainfall is far between, which doesn't help with the ground water level..

Edit:

One more thing; could anyone give me an idea on how much it cost to build the holding pens?

Regards,

Mato

Edited June 12, 2011 by khunMato

[IsaanAussie]

Nobody can predict price per kg however last year it started dropping in July and bottoming in November(51 baht a kg I think?), we all have to be aware of price fluctuations and not do our forcasts from top price. Which you are most probably aware of.

Scully you are right, anyone who bases their business at the top of a market is taking a huge risk instead of enjoying a brief period of opportunity. So I thought I would show my baseline numbers and try to explain a little about my operation. The figures shown below are set at 55 baht per kg live weight which was the original planning number I used. The cost base is the same as the table I posted yesterday.

The second table looks at the return from each sow per year. To me this is the most important part and the most complex.

In my case I have been running an average of 9 surviving piglets per litter since we started breeding. Currently, due to planned culling and herd replacement, the average piglet numbers stand at 5 per litter. I assume that once a gilt enters the breeding herd the clock starts ticking regardless of when she is first mated. So if I hold a gilt back to gain weight or to await a cull sow removal, it effects the herd averages.

The current high prices have allowed the final step for me to reset the parity average of my breeding herd and reduce the output while new gilts are introduced. On current costs, the average feed cost of maintaining a working sow per year is just under 14,000 per year. The second chart shows that at 55 baht per kg a sow with an average litter size of only 5 still yeilds a small gross profit. At the normal 9 piglets figure the sow's minimum contribution is a gross profit of around 100% over her costs. This occurs if 60kg pigs are sold at 55baht.

Current costing 2-5-11(sow at 55B).pdf

The obvious question is why would I sell a half grown pig at a lesser return? Well, that has to do with accomodation and the stage the business is at. My sty is designed to cater for four litters per month. However the grow/finish pens can only cater for 10 adult pigs each. So if I wean 4 litters per month I can accomodate them all in the 4 nursery pens for the next month. At that point they enter grower1, grower2 and then finish1 and 2 for a month each in turn on an All In All Out basic. So in that 5 month post weaned period I have to reduce the numbers by 25 to 30 pigs per month. So I sell weaned piglets, grow 1 pigs at 30kgs, at 60 and 90 kilos as well as finished at 100 kgs and cull stock.

What that means is I have had to develop a market for each weight class of pig. Up to 30 kgs to people looking for grow stock. Up to 90 kgs for ham pigs as a premium product if possible and those over 90 kgs to the local market or as premium bacon pigs. Along the way I am always looking for replacement gilts for the breeding stock and select them as batches of four from the same litter if possible. The reason for this being I group house 4 sows per gestation pen and I want them happy and familiar.

Going back to the tables here, I track the sow productivity on an individual basis, but more importantly on a gestation group basis. If the group is underperforming I will cull them all if I have a gilt group ready. Normally I will breed the gilts when ready and use them to fill any returns from the current sow grouping to keep the farrowing output constant. There is a market for pregnant gilts and for cull sows so there is plenty of choice on what to sell. I tend to hold the gilts until they reach 140 to 150 kgs before I breed them so I have a gilt pen which actually forms the fifth breeding females pen in the sty.

Obviously this is a bit thin on detail but I hope it helps anyone planning to start a farm or to get an idea of my business model.

Isaan Aussie

[IsaanAussie]

Some interesting questions here and a few opinions in response.

Do you have any ideas what you want to feed your pigs?.

Not sure yet. I think though that we will go with a premixed type, at least in the beginning. Any tips?

Feed is the largest component of cost. The safest bet is to select a commercial feed at the start. The costs can be reduced significantly be mixing your own feed but if you are planning on growing some of it yourself, have a careful look at the amount of cropping area you will need and the storage of those items. Take a breeding sow as an example, she will eat 1,100 kg per year (dry weight) that will mean something like 2 to 3 Rai per year per sow. Whether you grow it yourself, or buy in bulk to realise a gain, you have to store it somewhere. Mixing is not easy to get right and there are many formulations to cover. IMHO look for supplementation rather than self reliance.

we have a large concrete drying area as far away as possible (due to smell) which is also where we grow chicken. The pig sh1t creates thousands of maggots and the chicken eat these getting them fat and stopping flies, we then sell the dry sh1t per bag.

Mention was made of the smell. The smell is the result of anaerobic decomposition usually and anaerobic conditions breed pathogens such as E.Coli. IMHO not worth the risk to people or pigs. Maggots means flies. Flies mean fly blown pigs and believe me that is not something you want to deal with. Yes it has happened to me. A slight drop off in cleaning, a few lice or mite ridden chickens wandering around, and finally flies and your pigs will have nasty open wounds within days if not hours.

I´ve come across a more trivial issue though, water. As I understand it, one of the best ways to prevent decease among the pigs is to clean them regularly. I assume that the prevention of decease (by daily showers) along with the normal consumption of water adds up to a substantial amount. The plot of land we intend to use for our pig farm is a couple of kilometres from any communal water supply. Do all of you have communal water, or is there anyone who gets their water supply from a groundwater well? Would it be (to) risky to relay on a groundwater well?

After a running-in period we intend to have 200+ pigs at our farm. This is the reason behind my "water worries". Also, as explained before, our land is just outside Maha Sarakham. I don't know is there is plentiful of groundwater in the area. I do know that rainfall is far between, which doesn't help with the ground water level..

There is nothing trivial about water. A sow and litter will consume 20 litres a day, it has to be fresh, clean and cool. For a target on cleaning, my allowance is 15 litres per pig per day. Now I dont use all of that but it would indicate that for 200 pigs, you will have to have a supply of 3,000 litres for cleaning and about the same for drinking water. So you have to have a source (with or without electricity supply) of perhaps 6,000 litres a day.

I use a simple 4 inch bore and have 4,000 litres of gravity feed storage. In my area the ground water is at 6 metres with the water table rising above that in the wet season. I use a simple 1" piston pump that supplies 80 litres a minute. The only risk of relying on ground water is not checking on what your conditions are and the rate at which you can draw it off. As a practical test, smell and taste the water. If you can drink it, so can the pigs. Minerals content and sediment must be donsidered as they will both effect the drinking taps quickly.

On the hygiene side there are two issues. First the pens must be kept clean. Secondly water is not enough to do that. When you move stock, the pen must be cleaned of ALL dirt and then disinfected. I use a 170 bar high pressure cleaner and each pen is cleaned using it. You cannot get rid of all the muck with a hose. If there is any dirt left, then you are wasting your time using disinfectant.

The issue with water and waste is the total cycle, Are you adding to the pollution of the water? If the BOD and COD levels of your waste water are high then your sty is not sustainable and you will ultimately have a disease problem. Clean up the waste water before you discharge it. I use septic tanks and carbon filteration prior to release of waste water into a soak away system.

One more thing; could anyone give me an idea on how much it cost to build the holding pens?

This is impossible to answer without knowing more detail of what you are planning. My sty has been described as the Pig Hilton by some and has been built to be as easy to clean and maintain as possible. Basic size is 14 pens at 3 by 5 metres with a centre aisle 2 metres wide. I have built a loft over the top that is 4 metres wide. Each pen has a gate in front and at the back, most have adjoining gates between to allow for easy stock movement. The walls are low height with steel fencing to maximise air circulation and social interface for the pigs. Total cost was around 1 million baht and currently would be more like 1.5 at todays prices.

I am not saying that all this is necessary, but I will say it sure makes things easy.

So for 200 pigs in a grow finish operation. Five month cycle from wean to finish, means 40 pigs per month at each weight stage. For my size pens and space allowance that would mean up to 20 pens, or if you use all in all out hoop barns, 5 barns plus one cleaned and rested per month for a total of 6. Let me take a guess and say, allow 250,000 per barn.

Whatever you plan, consider biosecurity first. Not the cheap and easy Thai idea but a modern, clean and odour free environment.

To all my ramblings let me add the major startup costs. Feed. If you are going to grow finish then you will need to support 200 pigs for 5 months before getting a return. If you are going to build up a breeding herd then the time extends to 11 months minimum. If you buy the pigs then 2,000 baht per piglet is reasonable. Add around 250 kgs of feed per head at an average of say 15 baht per kg and you are looking at working capital of some 1.5 million baht.

The bottomline to establish a 200 pig operation to break even, I would allow 3 million baht.

Isaan Aussie

PS. There you go boys, rip into that!!!!

[khunMato]

I musty say that it is very admirable of you Isaan Aussie to share with us all of your information you have gathered up during all this years. It must have cost you a lot, money and sweat, to learn all.

To all my ramblings let me add the major startup costs. Feed. If you are going to grow finish then you will need to support 200 pigs for 5 months before getting a return. If you are going to build up a breeding herd then the time extends to 11 months minimum. If you buy the pigs then 2,000 baht per piglet is reasonable. Add around 250 kgs of feed per head at an average of say 15 baht per kg and you are looking at working capital of some 1.5 million baht.

The bottomline to establish a 200 pig operation to break even, I would allow 3 million baht.

3 million might sound like a lot of money, but the ROI is about a year and a half, (if I understood all and know my maths) after all is set up and finished for operation.. of cause.

Again..many thanks

Sincerely,

Mato

[IsaanAussie]

I musty say that it is very admirable of you Isaan Aussie to share with us all of your information you have gathered up during all this years. It must have cost you a lot, money and sweat, to learn all.

3 million might sound like a lot of money, but the ROI is about a year and a half, (if I understood all and know my maths) after all is set up and finished for operation.. of cause.

Again..many thanks

Sincerely,

Mato

Mato,

You are more than welcome, glad you find it of some help. Yes it has cost a lot to get to where I am now. And yes you know your maths, the budget numbers should start to look good after a year and a half.

What I have shared is some of my technical details, methods and personal opinions and I consider myself to have been fortunate to get it to work so far. But the game is far from over, the sty far from finished, many planned projects yet to be started and cash flow issues are a constant challenge. I hope that I havent given the impression that it has been easy because it hasn't, nor is it getting any easier. Maintaining my own drive and motivation in this environment has been, and remains my biggest challenge. I am three years into this and ROI is now just out of reach rather than over horizon.

So to those who advise others to risk only what they can afford to loose, I say this. Take what you can afford to loose and set it on fire, it would be a lot quicker and much easier!

Isaan Aussie

[khunMato]

So to those who advise others to risk only what they can afford to loose, I say this. Take what you can afford to loose and set it on fire, it would be a lot quicker and much easier!

:lol:

I hope that I havent given the impression that it has been easy because it hasn't, nor is it getting any easier.

It certainly does not give the impression of being an easy stroll through the park or should I say through the sty.

Maintaining my own drive and motivation in this environment has been, and remains my biggest challenge

That is where I feel my biggest worries lay and from where my future problems will come. I have been in that environment before, although for not as long but I still feel that it is not as inspiring as I would like.

Anyway..thank you again.

We (the Mrs and I) have a lot to think about.

Perhaps we will call for you again Isaan Aussie