Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness dies aged 66

[DaveE13]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Plus, of course, Paisley and others on the Unionist side; McGuinness and Adams cannot take all the credit; and to be fair haven't tried to.

 

Maybe so.

 

But telling the families of the disappeared where their loved one's bodies were so that they could recover them and gain some closure would have shown a compassion both McGuinness and Adams were unwilling to show.

 

Remember, the disappeared weren't Unionists, weren't Protestants; they were Catholics the IRA disapproved of for some reason.

 

And the late Mo Mowlam as the Secretary of State for northern Ireland.  She threatened to bang all their heads together if both sides started to kick off during the talks. She won a lot of respect from Adams and Paisley

[brewsterbudgen]

 
No, its disgustingly typical of the BBC News today, especially the World Service out of Singapore.

I'd be impressed to see a link where the BBC is supporting terrorism. I won't hold my breath...

[beautifulthailand99]

Long Live Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 2nd - Longest Current Reigning Monarch in the World (please remember lese majeste laws in Thailand for those who would wish to say anything negative).

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[Mosha]

Good riddance. 

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[daveAustin]

On 3/21/2017 at 3:59 PM, thequietman said:

Martin McGuinness was a freedom fighter and fought for the return of Ireland to the Irish people. It was his right as an Irish man to reclaim his country back by whatever means. His death is a sad day for Ireland and Irish people and for those of you who wish to see the death of Gerry Adams, I hope and trust he will outlast all of you.

Try reading up on Irish history to see why Martin McGuiness fought for what I know to be right.

 

Rest in Peace Martin McGuinness.  "I haven't done anything I am ashamed of."

Be quiet!

[Macthehat]

"Terrorist" is a word best left to describe the same murdering <removed>  who send troops into foreign countries to kill and torture under the guise of "liberation "

And then find it hard to understand why they are under attack .

FIGHT WAR ..NOT WARS !

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Macthehat said:

"Terrorist" is a word best left to describe the same murdering bastards who send troops into foreign countries to kill and torture under the guise of "liberation "

And then find it hard to understand why they are under attack .

FIGHT WAR ..NOT WARS !

 

Good job we didn't listen to those wise words when Hitler was being a little bit naughty!

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Macthehat said:

"Terrorist" is a word best left to describe the same murdering <removed>  who send troops into foreign countries to kill and torture under the guise of "liberation "

And then find it hard to understand why they are under attack .

FIGHT WAR ..NOT WARS !

 

You are a youngster then........?

[TopOfTheMorning]

11 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Long Live Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 2nd - Longest Current Reigning Monarch in the World (please remember lese majeste laws in Thailand for those who would wish to say anything negative).

 

 

 

 

Phil was probably biting his tongue when that picture was taken.

 

[transam]

14 minutes ago, TopOfTheMorning said:

 

Phil was probably biting his tongue when that picture was taken.

 

Doubt it.....

[Macthehat]

44 minutes ago, vogie said:

Good job we didn't listen to those wise words when Hitler was being a little bit naughty!

A major general Butler from the United States Marine Corps once said "war is a racket" and I tend to believe him . 

lined more pockets and made the rich richer.at the expense of the working class guys and girls sent to fight. 

I appreciate Hitler was off the rails but was just another puppet in the bigger picture .

[Macthehat]

44 minutes ago, transam said:

You are a youngster then........?

Yep

[transam]

1 minute ago, Macthehat said:

A major general Butler from the United States Marine Corps once said "war is a racket" and I tend to believe him . 

lined more pockets and made the rich richer.at the expense of the working class guys and girls sent to fight. 

I appreciate Hitler was off the rails but was just another puppet in the bigger picture .

Nope....

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Macthehat said:

A major general Butler from the United States Marine Corps once said "war is a racket" and I tend to believe him . 

lined more pockets and made the rich richer.at the expense of the working class guys and girls sent to fight. 

I appreciate Hitler was off the rails but was just another puppet in the bigger picture .

You can believe what you want and I the same.

Edited March 25, 2017 by vogie

[rott]

On 3/21/2017 at 5:40 PM, Bluespunk said:

 

 

He played a major role in ending the troubles 

 

Of course I wouldn't expect everyone to see that.

 

However it is still true.

He played a major role in starting and maintaining them as well.

Edited March 27, 2017 by rott

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, rott said:

He played a major role in starting them as well.

Nonsense.

[brewsterbudgen]

9 minutes ago, rott said:

He played a major role in starting them as well.

That would have been extremely difficult as I don't think he was born in 1921.

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That would have been extremely difficult as I don't think he was born in 1921.

What cannot be disputed is that he had blood on his hands prior to Bloody Sunday in 1972 and was still at it in the mid 90s.

[Macthehat]

On 27/03/2017 at 4:08 AM, evadgib said:

What cannot be disputed is that he had blood on his hands prior to Bloody Sunday in 1972 and was still at it in the mid 90s.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??  Not once was he ever convicted of murder .... but then again neither were any british prime ministers and look at the blood they have on their hands .

[7by7]

32 minutes ago, Macthehat said:

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??

 

McGuinness was never convicted of murder, but was twice convicted of IRA terrorism offences; once by a court in Northern Ireland, and  once by a court in the Republic.

 

Before his transformation into a peacemaker he denied ever being a member of the IRA almost as many times as he acknowledged that he once was a member of the IRA.

 

The IRA certainly did not believe in 'innocent until proven guilty!'

 

During the Troubles they kneecapped, or worse, approximately 2500 people whose behaviour they deemed unacceptable.

 

How many of their victims were given a trial of any sort?

 

No British prime Minister has ever been convicted of murder, yet you calmly say

48 minutes ago, Macthehat said:

look at the blood they have on their hands .

Whatever happened until innocent until proven guilty?

[evadgib]

9 hours ago, Macthehat said:

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??  Not once was he ever convicted of murder .... but then again neither were any british prime ministers and look at the blood they have on their hands .

Having seen his work at first hand my opinion trumps any dithering by the DPP.

 

Bolt Cutters, Black and Decker, Pliers...

 

He made going to the dentists a breeze! 

 

[Macthehat]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

McGuinness was never convicted of murder, but was twice convicted of IRA terrorism offences; once by a court in Northern Ireland, and  once by a court in the Republic.

 

Before his transformation into a peacemaker he denied ever being a member of the IRA almost as many times as he acknowledged that he once was a member of the IRA.

 

The IRA certainly did not believe in 'innocent until proven guilty!'

 

During the Troubles they kneecapped, or worse, approximately 2500 people whose behaviour they deemed unacceptable.

 

How many of their victims were given a trial of any sort?

 

No British prime Minister has ever been convicted of murder, yet you calmly say

Whatever happened until innocent until proven 
. 

I actually agree with a lot u say but McGuinness was changed with "membership of the IRA" north and south . Not terrorism offences.  

Thousands were charged with this randomly during internment ..this only fuelled the recruitment for the IRA as more innocent were locked away than guilty .

Point being he fought an establishment which committed murders directly or indirectly and never were held accountable. It seemed the British governments plan was to fight "terrorism" with "terrorism"  ..... 

So to point the finger at one side of the conflict without looking at the source is crazy . McGuinness may or may not have  done terrible things but anything he done was dwarfed by the very people he fought against. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Macthehat

[Macthehat]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Having seen his work at first hand my opinion trumps any dithering by the DPP.

 

Bolt Cutters, Black and Decker, Pliers...

 

He made going to the dentists a breeze! 

 

Ok McGuinness was partial to some DIY  as you say ........ the DPP done a fair bit of DIY work also ?

[evadgib]

Director of Public Prosecutions!

[Macthehat]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Director of Public Prosecutions!

Yes the DPP done their own version of DIY on a regular basis . Planting and Misplacing evidence , state sponsored terrorism and diplock courts was the order or the day for a while too. 

This was all "the norm" 

[evadgib]

And here's me thinking you didn't know what DPP meant 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Macthehat said:

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

McGuinness was never convicted of murder, but was twice convicted of IRA terrorism offences; once by a court in Northern Ireland, and  once by a court in the Republic.

I actually agree with a lot u say but McGuinness was changed with "membership of the IRA" north and south . Not terrorism offences.

 My mistake; he was actually never convicted, or even tried, by a court in Northern Ireland; both cases were in the Republic.

 

The second time was for IRA membership, but the first:

Quote

In 1973, he was convicted by the Republic of Ireland's Special Criminal Court, after being arrested near a car containing 250 pounds (110 kg) of explosives and nearly 5,000 rounds of ammunition. He refused to recognise the court, and was sentenced to six months' imprisonment. In court, he declared his membership of the Provisional IRA without equivocation: "We have fought against the killing of our people... I am a member of Óglaigh na hÉireann and very, very proud of it".

(Source)

 

4 hours ago, Macthehat said:

Thousands were charged with this randomly during internment ..this only fuelled the recruitment for the IRA as more innocent were locked away than guilty .

 I agree that internment was a huge mistake by the government.

 

4 hours ago, Macthehat said:

Point being he fought an establishment which committed murders directly or indirectly and never were held accountable.

There was much that was wrong with the British government's policy during the Troubles.

 

But the so called 'freedom fighters' of the IRA, or to be accurate PIRA, and other Republican para military's was to force Northern Ireland out of the UK and into the Republic against the will of the majority of the people living there.

 

I'm not going to get into an argument over who killed whom, and which killings were justified or against what the IRA referred to as 'legitimate targets'. But simply present some facts. From Statistical breakdown of deaths in the 'Troubles'

 

Killings carried out by each Group by Community:
(Only groups who killed 25 or more people are shown)

Organisation	Total Killings	Protestant	Catholic	Not from NI
IRA	1696 (49%)	790	338	568
UVF	396 (11%)	89	265	42
British Army	299 (9%)	32	258	9
(unknown loyalist)	212 (6%)	50	212	7
UFF	149 (4%)	17	132	0
INLA	110 (3%)	55	33	22
UDA	102 (3%)	41	58	3
(unknown)	77	27	42	8
RUC	56	9	44	3
Official IRA	51	7	24	20
PAF (loyalist)	37	0	37	0
'Real' IRA	29	11	13	5
(others)	117	27	87	3

[MiKT]

5 hours ago, Macthehat said:

Ok McGuinness was partial to some DIY  as you say ........ the DPP done a fair bit of DIY work also ?

 

"Ok McGuinness was partial to some DIY"  .............. OK to torture and murder!

 

OK by you, well that is nice to know. 

 

The fact that others did the same (but not many worse than him) does not make it "OK".

 

 Nothing that has happened in Ireland's history justified the senseless bombing, murdering, torturing, rioting and suppression of the people of the North that the IRA (of whatever set of initials they hide behind) forced on the North for far too many years; whilst the South, which sensibly rejected IRA politics, prospered as a peaceful county. 

 

The peace and economic benefits enjoyed by the South should also have been allowed for all the people in the North, but were denied for far too long by IRA Terrorism. 

 

Yes the history of Ireland and GB has not been a happy one, but those in the South got over it as they got over the Danes and Vikings, etc and the Brits got over them.

 

The vast majority of Brits could not care less if the North joins the South, but as long as the majority of the North want to stay in the UK (like the Falklands and Gibraltar) then they should be allowed to do so peacefully; and if not peacefully, then the UK will defend them from the likes of the Argies or the IRA, especially those of the IRA who sided with Germany in WWII and later linked with Gadhafi and other Islamic terrorists.

 

But 555, maybe not too soon those birds will come home to roost.

 

 

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

The IRA  wanted and worked towards the overthrow of the democratically elected government of the Ireland. They advocated the installation of a quasi Marxist state.  This fact is undeniable. Because of the IRA's  refusal  to accept  the democratically elected government of Ireland and its stated goal of its overthrow, the IRA was a bonafide terrorist organization.

 

The idiocy of the violence in Northern Ireland was part and parcel of the overall IRA goal. 

 

 

[Macthehat]

7 hours ago, MiKT said:

 

"Ok McGuinness was partial to some DIY"  .............. OK to torture and murder!

 

. 

 

The fact that others did the same (but not many worse than him) does not make it "OK".

 

 Nothing that has happened in Ireland's history justified the senseless bombing, murdering, torturing, rioting and suppression of the people of the North that the IRA (of whatever set of initials they hide behind) forced on the North for far too many years; whilst the South, which sensibly rejected IRA politics, prospered as a peaceful county. 

 

The peace and economic benefits enjoyed by the South should also have been allowed for all the people in the North, but were denied for far too long by IRA Terrorism. 

 

Yes the history of Ireland and GB has not been a happy one, but those in the South got over it as they got over the Danes and Vikings, etc and the Brits got over them.

 

The vast majority of Brits could not care less if the North joins the South, but as long as the majority of the North want to stay in the UK (like the Falklands and Gibraltar) then they should be allowed to do so peacefully; and if not peacefully, then the UK will defend them from the likes of the Argies or the IRA, especially those of the IRA who sided with Germany in WWII and later linked with Gadhafi and other Islamic terrorists.

 

But 555, maybe not too soon those birds will come home to roost.

 

 

 

 

 

You obviously didnt see My remark was tongue in cheek to the OP .  At what stage did I say  "ok by me " ? You said "OK by you, well that is nice to know" 

Why would that be nice to know? 

It is not ok by me as you seem think .I don't make excuses for any of it.  

Seems you've went into attack mode before you've fully read and understood .