IMPORTANT INFORMATION for new electrical supplies. Building a home, read this!

[Crossy]

My thanks to @r136dg and @NilSS for the information contained here.

 

From late 2016 it is now a legal requirement for all new installations to be RCD protected, you will not get a permanent supply without this basic protection.

 

It is also suggested that your sparks should be licensed although the actual licensing requirements for a domestic installation are unclear at present.

 

Below is information from PEA (I see no reason why MEA should be any different), disregard at your peril. I'm working on translating the poster and the form but until then here they are in all their Thai glory. Get your sparks to read and comply.

 

Click the images for the full size (readable) versions.

 

 

EDIT 31/03/17 10.00

 

Interpretation of the important bits of the poster.

 

Blue area, top right details the relevant standard. If anyone wants the latest version of the "Standard Electrical Installation for Thailand, 2013" you can buy it here (and in major bookstores):-

 

https://eitstandard.com/product/002001-56/

 

Bullets 1-5 indicate items that must be RCD protected.

1. Outlet circuit in bathroom, kitchen etc.
2. Outlet near sink (can't read the distance)
3. Outlet outside
4. Not readable
5. Water heater, water boiler, bath???

 

Orange area bottom left is the spec. for the ground rod. 5/8" hot-dig galvanised steel, >2.4m long.

 

Green area bottom centre is the various meter sizes, the required incoming breaker (second column) and the minimum cable size (right column). The two centre columns are maximum loads for MEA and PEA for each meter type.

 

Green area bottom right is cable and breaker sizes for various appliances, lights, outlets aircon.

 

=============================

 

 

EDIT 28/03/17 14.00

 

Here's the translation of the form.

 

Whilst the word "mandatory" doesn't appear the general tone implies compliance is required.

Also the bracketed text on the diagram indicates that the two RCDs (they still use the dated term "Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker") are both "optional", I suspect that it means you must have one or the other.

It also refers to "Electrical Installation Standard for Thailand" but doesn't include a TIS reference. Next task find out exactly which document they mean and get a copy of the latest version.

 

 

 

All great fun :)

 

[wayned]

Thanks.  It looks like the picture doesn't match the drawing on the form.  The drawing on the form shows a MCB on the line before the RCD.  In the picture, I don't see the MCB only the RCD.  Am I blind?

[Crossy]

Just now, wayned said:

Thanks.  It looks like the picture doesn't match the drawing on the form.  The drawing on the form shows a MCB on the line before the RCD.  In the picture, I don't see the MCB only the RCD.  Am I blind?

 

No you're not, the poster shows an RCBO (MCB / RCD combined). Evidently someone wants to sell Schneider / SquareD kit.

[r136dg]

Thanks much for the translation Crossy!

[KhunBENQ]

Wow, that sounds like a revolution, start of a new era

Mandatory grounding, RCD protection for private houses!

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

Indeed a move in the right direction.

 

Of course it remains to be seen just how rigorous enforcement is.

[wayned]

They are moving in the right direction! 

 

When I built my house 18 years ago, I put the additional required pole on my property and went along with the village "electrician" (and a whole truckload of other people) to the local PEA office which was a desk in an outdoor restaurant which was also the local bus station. After paying 4000+ baht, we left with a board with a 15/45 meter attached to it and a couple of bolts.  The rest was left to us, mounting the meter to the "construction" pole and running and hooking up the wires to the PEA wires on the last pole on the line.  I was charged the standard rate, not the temporary rate, for the electric and when it came time to move the meter to the PEA pole again it was left to us.  PEA read the meter and after years they actually put a seal on it.  That's the only time we saw anybody from PEA.  There were never any inspections and I still have the same meter!

 

They have now screwed a little purple plastic box to the meter board.  If I am not home when the PEA guy comes on his motorbike to collect, he leaves the bill in the box so that I can pay at 7-11.

[dotpoom]

Always grateful to be kept up to date with information that is important. It would have been very helpful though if it was explained in the post what an RCD was, for those of us who are not familiar with electrical jargon.

Edited March 29, 2017 by dotpoom

[Crossy]

57 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Always grateful to be kept up to date with information that is important. It would have been very helpful though if it was explained in the post what an RCD was, for those of us who are not familiar with electrical jargon.

 

Your wish ...

 

 

 

[rooinekrsa]

20 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Wow, that sounds like a revolution, start of a new era

Mandatory grounding, RCD protection for private houses!

Coming into the 21 century  

[Crossy]

43 minutes ago, rooinekrsa said:

Coming into the 21 century  

 

More like the (late) 20th :)

[BsBs]

A rule that nobody will follow or even know...

 

Can you tell me what is the purpose of a RCD ?

 

Why a standard cut is not enough ?

 

Thank you.

Edited March 29, 2017 by BsBs

[maprao]

One for Crossy. Why do they have the earth rod connected to the neutral ?

 

Does it still depend on the area you live in and the earthing arrangements for AC ?

 

I thought we were still looking at live neutral and a seperate ground

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maprao]

A rule that nobody will follow or even know...

 

Can you tell me what is the purpose of a RCD ?

 

Why a standard cut is not enough ?

 

Thank you.

 

RCD looks at the amount of current entering vs the amount leaving (simple terms) if they are not with the limits (equal) you have earth leakage and the RCD trips within a specified time (very short). Thus if the earth leakage is from the live through you to ground it will trip very quickly thus saving your life. As opposed to a CB which trips when excessive current is drawn (heating process) and slower to trip.

 

My view of it. Personal understanding only so buyer beware.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

37 minutes ago, maprao said:

One for Crossy. Why do they have the earth rod connected to the neutral ?

 

Does it still depend on the area you live in and the earthing arrangements for AC ?

 

I thought we were still looking at live neutral and a seperate ground

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good  point. Linking  ground  and neutral  in combination  with an RCD  can cause problems  if neighbours who obviously are also connected to the  common neutral have an issue but if using an  adjustable   RCD  set to minimum sensitivity then your  system trips  before theirs. It is  better  to  unlink  the  neutral / earth link bars to have an  independent system. Bearing in  mind  that  many old houses have no RCD or earth  anyway. 

[AjarnMartin]

Thanks, Crossy. Very informative and valuable and not before time as far as electrical safety in Thailand is concerned.

[Anthony Loh]

2 hours ago, maprao said:

One for Crossy. Why do they have the earth rod connected to the neutral ?

 

Does it still depend on the area you live in and the earthing arrangements for AC ?

 

I thought we were still looking at live neutral and a seperate ground

 

 

 

 

 

 

To me is, still better to have a separated neutral and ground, as this way had work so many many years and nothing have go wrong so far.

[Rawairat]

In Phuket are there any "licensed" electrician in Phuket? The few I have had to try to sort out my electrical problems I am sure are self trained (survived) locals who have bought a multi-meter. One told my wife a few years back the reason the TV gave her a shock was because the 2 pin plug was around the wrong way!!

[Crossy]

Guys, please ask questions in separate threads.

 

This page is worth a look, it should answer the reasoning behind linking earth and neutral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

 

Thailand is TN-C-S with MEN (or PME in Brit speak), pretty much the same as Australia / NZ and the US, much of the UK is TN-C-S, you just don't see the N-E link as it's in the service head.

 

 

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Good  point. Linking  ground  and neutral  in combination  with an RCD  can cause problems  if neighbours who obviously are also connected to the  common neutral have an issue but if using an  adjustable   RCD  set to minimum sensitivity then your  system trips  before theirs. It is  better  to  unlink  the  neutral / earth link bars to have an  independent system. Bearing in  mind  that  many old houses have no RCD or earth  anyway. 

 

There are indeed issues with N-E connections that are downstream of an RCD. But the link in this case is upstream so there should be no issues. As noted earlier the US, UK, NZ and Australia (plus others I'm sure) all link N-E, it's just that in some cases (UK) you don't actually see the link.

 

Connecting N-E has some significant advantages. One of which is that it provides a low resistance path from your earth terminal back to the star-point of the transformer. A L-E fault will draw enough current to open the MCB without the RCD having to do the job, in this case the RCD provides secondary protection.

 

Your RCD still provides protection against direct contact (getting hold of a live wire) which an MCB cannot.

 

For best safety you need a ground AND an RCD but if you have no ground an RCD is a vital addition to your installation.

.

 

 

[BsBs]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:19 PM, maprao said:

 

RCD looks at the amount of current entering vs the amount leaving (simple terms) if they are not with the limits (equal) you have earth leakage and the RCD trips within a specified time (very short). Thus if the earth leakage is from the live through you to ground it will trip very quickly thus saving your life. As opposed to a CB which trips when excessive current is drawn (heating process) and slower to trip.

 

My view of it. Personal understanding only so buyer beware.

 

 

 

The result is the same for Thai, they will never pay more for a RCB.

 

 

[Crossy]

I've edited the OP to include interpretation of the poster.

 

There is also an updated version of the Idiot's Guide.

 

Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf

 

And here is the training material for those wishing to become fully certified sparks. There is a huge amount of data which will take me a looooong time to pick out the relevant parts.

 

http://www.eitpr.com/content.php?siteid=0&option=content&id=715&lang=en

 

If anyone wants the latest version of the "Standard Electrical Installation for Thailand, 2013" you can buy it here (and in major bookstores):-

 

https://eitstandard.com/product/002001-56/

 

 

 

[outdoorbloke]

Does any one know from the new standards if a 63 amp main breaker is still acceptable on a 15/45 meter or if 50 amp is the new max as the table references 50 amps but not sure if it is a max or not 

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, outdoorbloke said:

Does any one know from the new standards if a 63 amp main breaker is still acceptable on a 15/45 meter or if 50 amp is the new max as the table references 50 amps but not sure if it is a max or not 

 

Our PEA inspector insisted on a 50A (we had 63A) when we had our permanent meter installed.

[irlguy1]

 
Our PEA inspector insisted on a 50A (we had 63A) when we had our permanent meter installed.

Possibly nothing to do with the above or maybe along the same lines.
If the resident power geniuses could let me know I would be grateful. [emoji4]
Thanks again for all your help on my other thread too. Still trying to get to the bottom of the circuit board and MEN issues.

This is a mail from my dad in law and I am clueless on it.

"The electric people said they install 15 amp meter and lines. that mean the line can handle 15 amps? to me sounds low."???
This is for new house.

If 15 going to do it?
Thanks,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bankruatsteve]

Yes.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

"The electric people said they install 15 amp meter and lines. that mean the line can handle 15 amps? to me sounds low."???
This is for new house.

If 15 going to do it?

 

 

 

Just verify that they mean a 15/45 (they probably do). That will do the job just fine :)

[Dumbastheycome]

7 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

 

 

Possibly nothing to do with the above or maybe along the same lines.
If the resident power geniuses could let me know I would be grateful.
Thanks again for all your help on my other thread too. Still trying to get to the bottom of the circuit board and MEN issues.

This is a mail from my dad in law and I am clueless on it.

"The electric people said they install 15 amp meter and lines. that mean the line can handle 15 amps? to me sounds low."???
This is for new house.

If 15 going to do it?
Thanks,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

It  will.

[wayned]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:15 AM, wayned said:

They are moving in the right direction!

They have now screwed a little purple plastic box to the meter board.  If I am not home when the PEA guy comes on his motorbike to collect, he leaves the bill in the box so that I can pay at 7-11.

They have updated the billing procedures.  They now carry a handheld printer and when they read the meter, they print out the bill and leave it in the little plastic box to be paid at 7-11 or other approved places  No more in person collection of the cash.  They read the meter today, Easter Sunday, and I now have the bill in hand.

[RichCor]

On 4/11/2017 at 11:59 AM, irlguy1 said:

This is a mail from my dad in law and I am clueless on it.

"The electric people said they install 15 amp meter and lines. that mean the line can handle 15 amps? to me sounds low."???
This is for new house.

If 15 going to do it?
Thanks,

 

Other posters have already commented, but do have someone look at the physical meter to verify what capacity it's showing. It should have printing on it that indicates either 5(15) or 15(45).

 

@Crossy has previously posted about the meter sizes that you might find helpful:

 

5(15)

The first number is the calibration current, the second (in the parenthesis) is the maximum rated current. 

Your 5/15 has a maximum current of 15A (about 3300 Watts). 

Your 15/45 has a maximum current of 45A (about 9900 Watts).

and the meters are very robust, but long term overloads above about 150% of rated current may affect accuracy (and you can bet it won't read low).