Three suspected teenage burglars shot dead in US

[tomwct]

On 3/29/2017 at 11:01 AM, sanukjim said:

Maybe the Robbers should have been given a warning of DO NOT STEAL  or you will be shot.boomerangutang you are a bleeding heart liberal that has no idea of what you are talking about.

No, that is the job of their parents and/or their Teachers you shouldn't steal! They deserved what they got!

[pegman]

On March 29, 2017 at 7:39 PM, boomerangutang said:

I've thought some more about this case.  It troubles me.  I can see how the first intruder got shot with deadly force.  Justified.   Perhaps also the second was justified, who was also caught within the house.   However, the 3rd young man was shot outside.  Very likely he was running away, cornered, and/or pleading for his life with his hands raised.  In a military situation, a combatant who puts his hands up is supposed to be taken into custody, not shot dead.  Granted, this was not strictly a military scenario, but was similar, in that there were combatants.     If it proves true that the 3rd young man (and possibly also the 2nd) had his/their hands in the air pleading for mercy, .....AND WERE SHOT DEAD,  I think the shooter should be punished - perhaps with a modest fine (suggest $1000) and/or some months in jail.   The charge:  excessive force.

It's out and out triple murder. Take him behind the courthouse and a single shot behind the left ear will settle this.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

It's out and out triple murder. Take him behind the courthouse and a single shot behind the left ear will settle this.

Are you serious? Three armed men force their way into your home in the middle of the night, what did you want the home owner to do, make them sandwiches?

[SheungWan]

On 3/30/2017 at 8:39 AM, boomerangutang said:

I've thought some more about this case.  It troubles me.  I can see how the first intruder got shot with deadly force.  Justified.   Perhaps also the second was justified, who was also caught within the house.   However, the 3rd young man was shot outside.  Very likely he was running away, cornered, and/or pleading for his life with his hands raised.  In a military situation, a combatant who puts his hands up is supposed to be taken into custody, not shot dead.  Granted, this was not strictly a military scenario, but was similar, in that there were combatants.     If it proves true that the 3rd young man (and possibly also the 2nd) had his/their hands in the air pleading for mercy, .....AND WERE SHOT DEAD,  I think the shooter should be punished - perhaps with a modest fine (suggest $1000) and/or some months in jail.   The charge:  excessive force.

Your scenario about the the third guy is pure speculation other than the fact he was shot outside.

Edited March 31, 2017 by SheungWan

[transam]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

It's out and out triple murder. Take him behind the courthouse and a single shot behind the left ear will settle this.

You're 'avin a laugh...........

[geriatrickid]

On 28 March, 2017 at 8:10 PM, boomerangutang said:

              There's a recent movie which mirrors that scenario to some degree. I can't recall its name, but I watched in on a flight.

            The shooter is within his rights to do what he did.  Yet, it's a window into the cold-blooded way many US rednecks deal with the world.  It's the same people who voted for Trump.  The shooter could have given a warning and/or shot in the air and/or shot the intruders in the legs, .......   but instead, he purposefully went for 3 kills.   If you get some puppies and they shit on your carpet, do you knock them around with a baseball bat?   Killing the intruders was overkill. 

 

You obviously have never been in a serious confrontation,. One does not give a warning shot when one is outnumbered  in a close proximity attack.  Hesitate and you die. Stop with the silly generalizations about Trump voters. Gun ownership is high in Canada and subject to similar restrictions as in the UK. Currently, the farmers have been shooting thieves because the police are nowhere to be found in rural areas. These farmers  voted  NDP, which is a left wing  political party. Vermont is Bernie Saunders country and it happens there too.

 

On 28 March, 2017 at 8:16 PM, saakura said:

Death sentence for teen burglars, sanctioned by law.

Nope. Try suicide.

 

On 28 March, 2017 at 8:55 PM, AhFarangJa said:

Makes a darn sight more sense than stupid UK laws. If I inujre someone who breaks into my property I am the one that gets convicted !!!!

No. Only if you behaved with callous indifference.

On 28 March, 2017 at 9:09 PM, daveAustin said:

I would knock the puppies around with a baseball bat if they had the means and intention to do me and my family harm, yes. Trouble is with this point of view, it is all daintily skewed towards the wrongdoer; the victim's welfare is secondary if considered at all. Someone comes into your property, armed, with the intention to steal and maim, they are fair game afaic. Thinking about the old boy in the UK a while back that did time for shooting a burglar. Absolute disgrace. I wish the UK would adopt the US's sane stance on this.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jury-takes-24-minutes-to-clear-elderly-farmer-who-shot-burglar-s7fbzrp0k

 

The case you refer to involved a man who shot a 16 year old in the back as the kid was fleeing and had not stolen anything yet.He was executed.  The conviction was appropriate as the thief did not present a clear and imminent threat.

 

On 28 March, 2017 at 10:18 PM, giddyup said:

What is the 'middle path" after 3 men dressed in black forcefully enter your house in the middle of the night? Ask them politely to leave, point out the error of their ways, make them a coffee?

No. It is to behave in a responsible manner. If there is no CLEAR and imminent threat then the  law in the USA  as in the Uk and Australia  holds that one must behave in a prudent and responsible manner. No physical threat and  you shoot makes you guilty of assault.

[giddyup]

No. It is to behave in a responsible manner. If there is no CLEAR and imminent threat then the  law in the USA  as in the Uk and Australia  holds that one must behave in a prudent and responsible manner. No physical threat and  you shoot makes you guilty of assault.

 

We'll never know if the three presented a serious threat or not, but they were armed, so that says enough for me. Anyone who is armed and forces entry to a house in the middle of the night takes their chances, in this case they got what was coming.

[Humberstone]

There was a case in Montana recently where a house owner 'lured' someone into his garage and deliberately shot him dead in the belief that he would be exonerated under a 'stand your ground' law. He was wrong. I'm going to wait and see on this one.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Humberstone said:

There was a case in Montana recently where a house owner 'lured' someone into his garage and deliberately shot him dead in the belief that he would be exonerated under a 'stand your ground' law. He was wrong. I'm going to wait and see on this one.

There will always be those on the side of geared up gangster house intruders cos the house family took care of THEIR lives and the intruders paid....tut tut...

 

First time I went to the USA was 1989, got off the plane and booked into a Miami motel, there were more locks on that room than in the Tower of London....Laid on the bed, watched TV. news channel,...Some lady had just been killed in her kitchen by intruders.......

 

Shoot them all, YOUR life in YOUR house is YOURS, not gob shits.....

[Humberstone]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

There will always be those on the side of geared up gangster house intruders cos the house family took care of THEIR lives and the intruders paid....tut tut...

 

First time I went to the USA was 1989, got off the plane and booked into a Miami motel, there were more locks on that room than in the Tower of London....Laid on the bed, watched TV. news channel,...Some lady had just been killed in her kitchen by intruders.......

 

Shoot them all, YOUR life in YOUR house is YOURS, not gob shits.....

Regarding the case in Montana, the guy was shot because the home owner wanted to lure him into the house to kill him. He was a German student or tourist, definitely not a gangster. This is the problem with a stand your ground law as you don't need to prove intent and it can be used as a license to commit homicide. 

 

That was my point.    

[transam]

On 3/31/2017 at 1:55 PM, Humberstone said:

Regarding the case in Montana, the guy was shot because the home owner wanted to lure him into the house to kill him. He was a German student or tourist, definitely not a gangster. This is the problem with a stand your ground law as you don't need to prove intent and it can be used as a license to commit homicide. 

 

That was my point.    

Of course "stuff" happens, BUT, we all know the world is full of shit rambo's who break into folks homes and kill for nothing whilst robbing the house.........

 

<deleted> 'em.....Do it to me and I have read enough over the years to take them out IF I could......We only live once, no second chance....

 

Our lad in LOS is a special forces cop and l/we are working on mum legally owning a side arm to keep in the house....I am trained, she will be trained....Bury the scum...

[pegman]

14 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You obviously have never been in a serious confrontation,. One does not give a warning shot when one is outnumbered  in a close proximity attack.  Hesitate and you die. Stop with the silly generalizations about Trump voters. Gun ownership is high in Canada and subject to similar restrictions as in the UK. Currently, the farmers have been shooting thieves because the police are nowhere to be found in rural areas. These farmers  voted  NDP, which is a left wing  political party. Vermont is Bernie Saunders country and it happens there too.

 

Canadian farmers shooting thieves? That sure sounds isolated (b.s.) or do you have a link? 

[Scott]

12 minutes ago, pegman said:

Canadian farmers shooting thieves? That sure sounds isolated (b.s.) or do you have a link? 

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/fear-in-farm-country-saskatchewan-farmers-take-up-arms-after-masked-men-enter-land

 

There are other links as well.  

[Sig]

On 3/30/2017 at 7:39 AM, boomerangutang said:

I've thought some more about this case.  It troubles me.  I can see how the first intruder got shot with deadly force.  Justified.   Perhaps also the second was justified, who was also caught within the house.   However, the 3rd young man was shot outside.  Very likely he was running away, cornered, and/or pleading for his life with his hands raised.  In a military situation, a combatant who puts his hands up is supposed to be taken into custody, not shot dead.  Granted, this was not strictly a military scenario, but was similar, in that there were combatants.     If it proves true that the 3rd young man (and possibly also the 2nd) had his/their hands in the air pleading for mercy, .....AND WERE SHOT DEAD,  I think the shooter should be punished - perhaps with a modest fine (suggest $1000) and/or some months in jail.   The charge:  excessive force.

That's one hilarious fantasy you paint.
I don't know what your source is, but the article says nothing about the third criminal being shot outside. Try taking another read. You liberals are so funny when you try to create stories for your ideology, it seriously cracks me up. So, after you state something as fact, that the article says nothing about, then you go on to create some hypothetical nonsense!? It sounds like you watch too many movies. Or maybe you believe the proven lie of "Hands up, don't shoot!", and it has gone to your head.

[Sig]

On 3/30/2017 at 8:55 AM, boomerangutang said:

If you don't know what 'hypothetical' means, look it up.

 

It relates to the scenario in the OP, mostly in relation to the killing of the 3rd intruder, who was shot dead outside the house, very likely with his hands up, pleading for mercy.  It also relates to the woman who was caught driving the get-away car.   If she had been shot dead (sitting in the car), gun-lovers would have fully justified that also.

OMG and now you are taking your fantasy yet one step further!? Please stop, my stomach is hurting from laughing.
"very likely with his hands up, pleading for mercy."  Pleassssse this is real life, not a movie. The guy wasn't some kind of maniac looking for people to shoot, as your fantasy seems to think gun owners are like. How on earth did you pull that one about the girl in the car out of your imagination!? You defend yourself as being hypothetical.... there is such a thing as hypothetical and then there is utter nonsense. And you keep repeating that he was shot outside the house. Please cite your source if you are going to make claims that are not to be found in the posted article.

[pegman]

21 hours ago, Scott said:

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/fear-in-farm-country-saskatchewan-farmers-take-up-arms-after-masked-men-enter-land

 

There are other links as well.  

That story was about a immigrant "Eastern European" farm hand saying he saw 3 armed guys in a SUV with masks on. Half the countryside went out looking for those guys including private planes and came up with nothing. It sounded like BS at the time and still does. This was in reaction to another farmer killing an Indian kid on his land and being charged with murder. I lived my whole life in Western Canada and know there is a deep racist hate for Indians there. Any excuse to shoot them one would be a great day to these yahoos. These guys are breaking the law carrying guns in their vehicles and it's about time the RCMP starts spot checking them and laying charges.  

[Scott]

You asked for a link.   You got a link.   Don't like the link, feel free to do your own search. 

 

This topic is about teens shot in the US.  

[55Jay]

Interesting developments on this as the 911 recording is released. 

 

The 3 deceased kids had broken into and burglarized the apartment above the detached garage on this property earlier.  The get away car driver, Ms Rodriguez, said they returned to hit the main house later as she thought it might contain expensive items they could help themselves to.

 

Not clear now about the 3rd (deceased) burglar.  On 911 recording, shooter was aware he hit 2, wasn't sure about 3rd, only that he ran out.... and we know he later died in the driveway.... indeed seems he was trying to reach the getaway car and Ms. Rodriguez, but she had already fled.   Shooter said he locked himself into a back bedroom and called 911.

 

When I scrolled down the page on these various local news sites, I saw two other stories about foiled home invasions in/around that city where residents defended themselves successfully.  I've been gone from the US a long time but remember when home invasions were the new, latest thing - in my area of the US at the time, the Asian gangs seemed to dominate the genre, doing them in the predominately upscale Asian/SE Asian Immigrant part of town (Mira Mesa).  Vicious buggers too, armed, kick the door in at night, hog tie and duct tape whoever happened to be home, no compunction neutralizing anyone who put up resistance or failed to comply immediately.

[chilli42]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:03 PM, sanukjim said:

Not so easy? Where and When  in the hell did you get your gun training? In video games? You have never shot at or shot any one have you ?

 

On 3/29/2017 at 3:03 PM, sanukjim said:

Not so easy? Where and When  in the hell did you get your gun training? In video games? You have never shot at or shot any one have you ?

Sadly I have and I did not like the result.  

[sandemara]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:05 AM, ezzra said:

The right to bare arms and protect your home and your family at all cost

Bare arms are for shooting drugs - real shooters bear arms responsibly.

[jerojero]

Surprised this doesn't happen more often given the tens of millions of guns owned by USA citizens.

[Dipterocarp]

On 3/31/2017 at 4:55 PM, Humberstone said:

Regarding the case in Montana, the guy was shot because the home owner wanted to lure him into the house to kill him. He was a German student or tourist, definitely not a gangster. This is the problem with a stand your ground law as you don't need to prove intent and it can be used as a license to commit homicide. 

 

That was my point.    

He was a Turkish-German exchange student. The homeowner had been broken into before likely by same group of teenagers who were stealing beer from suburban garages and "laid in wait" to kill. I don't like "guns" (we'll I like shooting but I think it is too risky to keep them, especially with children in the house) and brutality of the US one reason I chose to not live there but home invasions are a serious problem. Texas/Oklahoma? Break into someones house is bad idea you're gonna get shot!

Edited April 14, 2017 by Dipterocarp