Can I give my condo to my friend as a gift?

[snoopy21]

I am non-Thai with Retirement visa and my friend is also non-Thai with Tourist visa.  Can I simply go to the Land office and ask for a change of my condo's name to my friend's name in the title deed?

 

 

[trogers]

It would be treated as a sales.

 

Your friend would be required to show foreign money has been imported to buy the unit, and duties and taxes shall apply for the transaction.

 

You can only will it to your friend, and upon your demise, the will have to be submitted to the court for processing. Then, only transfer tax of 2% applies.

[Peterw42]

Yes, but the transfer fee of 3-5% will still be payable to the land office, and they will tell you what its worth. And if the condo is foreign title, your friend would still need to show funds coming from overseas etc

[trogers]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, but the transfer fee of 3-5% will still be payable to the land office, and they will tell you what its worth. And if the condo is foreign title, your friend would still need to show funds coming from overseas etc

No need for a new FET to effect a transfer based on death and the will. Former FET is still valid.

 

The deceased cannot transfer money out to cancel the old FET.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, trogers said:

No need for a new FET to effect a transfer based on death and the will. Former FET is still valid.

 

The deceased cannot transfer money out to cancel the old FET.

That makes sense. I didnt see your post when I responded.

[BsBs]

Of course not.

 

 

[Sophon]

19 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That makes sense. I didnt see your post when I responded.

It may make sense, but unfortunately it isn't true. The person inheriting the condo will have to qualify on his own and cannot "piggyback" on the FET from the original owner.

 

From https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

 

Condominium Law: Foreign Ownership and Inheritance

Condominium Act: succession and inheritance

Foreign ownership of a condo in Thailand is under condominium laws an individual right of the foreigner who qualified under condominium laws for ownership. Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he is eligible for ownership pursuant to section 19 of the Condominium Act. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner.

The Thailand Condominium Act is not foreign friendly. The Condo Act deals with inheritance of a condominium unit by foreign nationals in section 19/5 (under 1) and section 19/7 of the Condominium Act and only foreigners who qualify under section 19 of the Condominium Act are eligible and allowed to register ownership of the inherited condominium apartment unit within the 49% foreign ownership quota of the condominium (as specified in section 19/2 (bis) of the Condominium Act B.E.2522).

Who (foreigners) qualifies for ownership of a condo in Thailand

Condos in Thailand may be inherited by foreigners through testamentary or intestate succession, however, in order to legally register ownership of the unit with the Land Department a foreign successor of a condo must submit proof that he qualifies for ownership under section 19 of the Condominium Act. Under section 19 only the following foreigners qualify for condominium ownership registration:

1. Foreigners permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;
2. Foreigners permitted to enter into the Kingdom under the investment promotion law;
3. Juristic persons as provided in Section 97 and 98 of the Land Code and registered as juristic persons under Thai law;
4. Juristic persons which are foreigners under the Announcement of the National Executive Council No.281 dated November 24, B.E. 2515 (note: repealed by the foreigner definition in section 4 of the Foreign Business Act) and have obtained promotion certificate under investment promotion law;
5. Foreigners or juristic persons regarded by law as foreigners who have brought in foreign currency into the Kingdom or withdraw money from Thai baht account of the person who have residence outside the Kingdom or withdraw money from a foreign currency account.

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

It may make sense, but unfortunately it isn't true. The person inheriting the condo will have to qualify on his own and cannot "piggyback" on the FET from the original owner.

 

From https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

 

Condominium Law: Foreign Ownership and Inheritance

Condominium Act: succession and inheritance

Foreign ownership of a condo in Thailand is under condominium laws an individual right of the foreigner who qualified under condominium laws for ownership. Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he is eligible for ownership pursuant to section 19 of the Condominium Act. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner.

The Thailand Condominium Act is not foreign friendly. The Condo Act deals with inheritance of a condominium unit by foreign nationals in section 19/5 (under 1) and section 19/7 of the Condominium Act and only foreigners who qualify under section 19 of the Condominium Act are eligible and allowed to register ownership of the inherited condominium apartment unit within the 49% foreign ownership quota of the condominium (as specified in section 19/2 (bis) of the Condominium Act B.E.2522).

Who (foreigners) qualifies for ownership of a condo in Thailand

Condos in Thailand may be inherited by foreigners through testamentary or intestate succession, however, in order to legally register ownership of the unit with the Land Department a foreign successor of a condo must submit proof that he qualifies for ownership under section 19 of the Condominium Act. Under section 19 only the following foreigners qualify for condominium ownership registration:

1. Foreigners permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;
2. Foreigners permitted to enter into the Kingdom under the investment promotion law;
3. Juristic persons as provided in Section 97 and 98 of the Land Code and registered as juristic persons under Thai law;
4. Juristic persons which are foreigners under the Announcement of the National Executive Council No.281 dated November 24, B.E. 2515 (note: repealed by the foreigner definition in section 4 of the Foreign Business Act) and have obtained promotion certificate under investment promotion law;
5. Foreigners or juristic persons regarded by law as foreigners who have brought in foreign currency into the Kingdom or withdraw money from Thai baht account of the person who have residence outside the Kingdom or withdraw money from a foreign currency account.

Beg to have proofed all these professionals wrong.

 

Last July, I had got my name onto the title deed of my late dad's condo without a new FET.

Both of us are non-Thai.

 

Just a court order effected from his will. Transfer tax at 2%.

[Sophon]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

Beg to have proofed all these professionals wrong.

 

Last July, I had got my name onto the title deed of my late dad's condo without a new FET.

Both of us are non-Thai.

 

Just a court order effected from his will. Transfer tax at 2%.

I have no doubt at all that some land offices have transferred a condo into a new foreigner name without a new FET, that doesn't mean that it was done according to the condominium act. There are also foreigners having been entered in the blue tabien bahn or signed up for the 20 baht Thai public health scheme, but that doesn't mean that you should expect to be able to do so as well. If you search the net you will find plenty of other sources confirming the information from the website I linked to.

 

Sophon

[rak sa_ngop]

Is the option of adding another person's name to the Chanote also outside the Condo act?

I have read reports that some people have been able to do this. In the event of one party dying the other party would inherit/take over ownership without the need for a new FET.

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

I have no doubt at all that some land offices have transferred a condo into a new foreigner name without a new FET, that doesn't mean that it was done according to the condominium act. There are also foreigners having been entered in the blue tabien bahn or signed up for the 20 baht Thai public health scheme, but that doesn't mean that you should expect to be able to do so as well. If you search the net you will find plenty of other sources confirming the information from the website I linked to.

 

Sophon

Not just some Land office. My lawyer called and checked with the HQ Land office in Bangkok before bringing me to the district Land office to get the title transfer done.

 

Non-Thai to Non-Thai is not a problem.

 

Potential problem is in Thai to Non-Thai, because the said property has no FET in the first place, and the total foreign ownership in that building may have already reached the 49%.

Edited March 31, 2017 by trogers

[trogers]

2 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

Is the option of adding another person's name to the Chanote also outside the Condo act?

I have read reports that some people have been able to do this. In the event of one party dying the other party would inherit/take over ownership without the need for a new FET.

My understanding is that two names means joint ownership of equal share.

 

One's ownership does not fall automatically to the other party upon demise. It is still subjected to inheritance laws.

[oracle]

5 hours ago, trogers said:

Not just some Land office. My lawyer called and checked with the HQ Land office in Bangkok before bringing me to the district Land office to get the title transfer done.

 

Non-Thai to Non-Thai is not a problem.

 

Potential problem is in Thai to Non-Thai, because the said property has no FET in the first place, and the total foreign ownership in that building may have already reached the 49%.

 

I'm sure you are right, but because the condo act is quite clear on this subject, could it be that your late dad had residency in Thailand? This would explain some arguments about inheritance of a condo I read before, meaning including some sections of the civil code in this, or if you dad did not have residency, did he had a Thai wil? Thanks.

 

edit: or do you have residency here?

Edited March 31, 2017 by oracle

[trogers]

8 hours ago, oracle said:

 

I'm sure you are right, but because the condo act is quite clear on this subject, could it be that your late dad had residency in Thailand? This would explain some arguments about inheritance of a condo I read before, meaning including some sections of the civil code in this, or if you dad did not have residency, did he had a Thai wil? Thanks.

 

edit: or do you have residency here?

No residency. He was a tourist, visiting only once a year. I am here on a marriage visa.

 

His will was written here in both Thai and English by the same lawyer who subsequently lodged it with the court. I was the beneficiary and executor.

Edited March 31, 2017 by trogers

[rak sa_ngop]

20 hours ago, trogers said:

My understanding is that two names means joint ownership of equal share.

 

One's ownership does not fall automatically to the other party upon demise. It is still subjected to inheritance laws.

But one can easily get around this with a 'will'.

 

I know of for a fact one condo that had 2 parties (non-Thai) listed on the chanote, where the relatives of the deceased party were unable to claim the 'inherited' half the property. Some trickery may have been involved.

 

In that case the condo was initially purchased with joint names. I would like to know how easy/common/expensive is it to add the name of a second party years after the condo has been purchased by one party. 

 

I remember reading in another thread that somebody had achieved this. But I have not been able to locate the thread or the post reporting this.

 

If adding the name of a second party (who obviously may want to move into 'your' condo) can be achieved, it would provide an alternative way of bequeathing your condo to your chosen beneficiary.

 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

Why u want to give your condo away seems weird.

[csabo]

7 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Why u want to give your condo away seems weird.

 

Hey! I'm his friend.  Be quiet!

[elgordo38]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:58 PM, Sophon said:

It may make sense, but unfortunately it isn't true. The person inheriting the condo will have to qualify on his own and cannot "piggyback" on the FET from the original owner.

 

From https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

 

Condominium Law: Foreign Ownership and Inheritance

Condominium Act: succession and inheritance

Foreign ownership of a condo in Thailand is under condominium laws an individual right of the foreigner who qualified under condominium laws for ownership. Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he is eligible for ownership pursuant to section 19 of the Condominium Act. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner.

The Thailand Condominium Act is not foreign friendly. The Condo Act deals with inheritance of a condominium unit by foreign nationals in section 19/5 (under 1) and section 19/7 of the Condominium Act and only foreigners who qualify under section 19 of the Condominium Act are eligible and allowed to register ownership of the inherited condominium apartment unit within the 49% foreign ownership quota of the condominium (as specified in section 19/2 (bis) of the Condominium Act B.E.2522).

Who (foreigners) qualifies for ownership of a condo in Thailand

Condos in Thailand may be inherited by foreigners through testamentary or intestate succession, however, in order to legally register ownership of the unit with the Land Department a foreign successor of a condo must submit proof that he qualifies for ownership under section 19 of the Condominium Act. Under section 19 only the following foreigners qualify for condominium ownership registration:

1. Foreigners permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;
2. Foreigners permitted to enter into the Kingdom under the investment promotion law;
3. Juristic persons as provided in Section 97 and 98 of the Land Code and registered as juristic persons under Thai law;
4. Juristic persons which are foreigners under the Announcement of the National Executive Council No.281 dated November 24, B.E. 2515 (note: repealed by the foreigner definition in section 4 of the Foreign Business Act) and have obtained promotion certificate under investment promotion law;
5. Foreigners or juristic persons regarded by law as foreigners who have brought in foreign currency into the Kingdom or withdraw money from Thai baht account of the person who have residence outside the Kingdom or withdraw money from a foreign currency account.

Kind of reminds me why I do not wish to buy. What a circus.

[kokopelli]

snoopy21, from the advice given above it seems your best option is to die, as soon as possible, and have a  Will leaving the condo to your friend.

[realenglish1]

WIth all these condo ownership restrictions I would never buy a condo here FOR WHAT 

You are at a disadvantage to sell it if the time arises  

 

Anyone who has bought hopefully just bought to live in it Because that is all it is worth 

[elgenon]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:13 PM, trogers said:

It would be treated as a sales.

 

Your friend would be required to show foreign money has been imported to buy the unit, and duties and taxes shall apply for the transaction.

 

You can only will it to your friend, and upon your demise, the will have to be submitted to the court for processing. Then, only transfer tax of 2% applies.

Since the sales price is 0 Baht would he only have to show an FET for the duties and  taxes?

[trogers]

38 minutes ago, elgenon said:

Since the sales price is 0 Baht would he only have to show an FET for the duties and  taxes?

Treated as a sales. FET and duties and taxes would be required to follow the assessment value of the Land dept. You can declare a selling price of Bt1...but it would make no difference.

[balo]

You could always borrow to money to your friend , he buys it and you'll get your money back.  

. 

 

[snoopy21]

5 hours ago, balo said:

You could always borrow to money to your friend , he buys it and you'll get your money back.  

. 

 

Good idea!!!! Thanks!!!

[elgordo38]

On 4/4/2017 at 5:23 PM, realenglish1 said:

WIth all these condo ownership restrictions I would never buy a condo here FOR WHAT 

You are at a disadvantage to sell it if the time arises  

 

Anyone who has bought hopefully just bought to live in it Because that is all it is worth 

Tylenol time again just to much sense for one day. 

[Delight]

 The foregoing discussions have prompted a question

 

Which is:

If a freehold condo is transferred into company -then is  a new FET required?

 

If I were in the OP's position and the answer is NO then I would  set up a company and   transfer

 

After that a name change of the position of MD is easy (and cheap) and for ever

 

(please no comments about the so called risks with a condo in a company name. I, for one, do not buy these arguments)

 

 

[KittenKong]

On 05/04/2017 at 1:02 AM, balo said:

You could always borrow to money to your friend , he buys it and you'll get your money back. 

 

If a farang is buying a condo then he will need to show an FET for at least the the assessed value. Borrowing money will not get him an FET (unless the money comes from abroad and is sent here).

 

As far as the sale goes, there is no requirement at all for any money to actually change hands as long as the taxes are paid as though it did.

[KittenKong]

36 minutes ago, Delight said:

If a freehold condo is transferred into company -then is  a new FET required?

 

By definition no FET is required for a company name purchase as normally the company will be majority Thai anyway. FETs are only required for farang-name purchases.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Delight said:

(please no comments about the so called risks with a condo in a company name. I, for one, do not buy these arguments)

 

Bully for you. Others without your certitude may wish to remember that company structures used by farangs to own residential property are probably against both the letter and spirit of the law and may well be subject to a clampdown at some point. They also come with many risks of fraud and significant ongoing legal costs. Personally I would not touch one at any price as when it comes to condos there is always the possibility of buying a farang-name unit.

[Delight]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

 

By definition no FET is required for a company name purchase as normally the company will be majority Thai anyway. FETs are only required for farang-name purchases.

 

 

 

Bully for you. Others without your certitude may wish to remember that company structures used by farangs to own residential property are probably against both the letter and spirit of the law and may well be subject to a clampdown at some point. They also come with many risks of fraud and significant ongoing legal costs. Personally I would not touch one at any price as when it comes to condos there is always the possibility of buying a farang-name unit.

   I asked for no comments with respect to the use of companies to purchase condos

Perhaps you could attempt to answer my question. reference the need for a FET

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Delight
changed it a bit

[KittenKong]

7 minutes ago, Delight said:

 The evidence on the streets is not with you

 

Really? I see no shortage of farangs who have been defrauded out of their company-owned property by dodgy wives/partners and dodgier lawyers. I see hardly any people who have been defrauded out of farang-name property, unless they have been daft enough to give power of attorney to someone. I like those odds.

 

As for the extra costs, these are a matter of fact (company creation, yearly accounts, company winding-up).