Kindhearted Cambridgeshire woman finds grave of poppy seller's brother - in Thailand

[webfact]

Kindhearted Cambridgeshire woman finds grave of poppy seller's brother - in Thailand

By Anna Savva

 

Lesley had a chance encounter with the poppy seller on November 11 last year

 

CAMBRIDGE: -- A kindhearted Cambridgeshire woman is looking to track down an elderly war veteran poppy seller after a chance encounter led her on a journey to Thailand.

 

Lesley Serrao Da Veiga, 49, met the man selling poppies in March High Street on Remembrance Day last year when she went to purchase a poppy cross to commemorate the death of her uncle.

 

After sharing that she was taking the cross to the Kanchanaburi war cemetery in Thailand, where her uncle Arthur George Heffer was laid to rest after being taken as a prisoner of war by the Japanese, the pair were struck by an extraordinary coincidence.

 

Full story: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/kindhearted-cambridgeshire-woman-finds-grave-12845718

 

-- CAMBRIDGE NEWS 2017-04-05

[Somtamnication]

Tears to my eyes.

 

Very sad that Thai students are not taught "that" part of Thai history.

[bannork]

At my brother's wedding in the UK I was talking to his bride's mother and when she heard I lived in Thailand she remarked her brother had been lost building the Death Railway. 

I offered to try to find his memorial plaque when I returned to Thailand, and I did, in the main, well-kept cemetery in Kanchanaburi. I took a photo and sent it to her.

It's so sad walking around looking at the plaques because you realize nearly all those who died were in their early twenties.

We post-war UK citizens have been so, so lucky.

[Jeremy50]

1 hour ago, Somtamnication said:

Tears to my eyes.

 

Very sad that Thai students are not taught "that" part of Thai history.

They are not, neither do they know of The First World War,  The Korean War, or even the Vietnam War. In fact, they know little of any history. Ask 10 Thai teachers the dates of the Second World War, and one at the most will have the answer.

[docshock13]

Both my grand dads served. One in both WWI & WWII, the other in WWII. The wars were rarely discussed in our family, but when they were you could see deep sorrow in their eyes. Perhaps memories of their mates who made the ultimate sacrifice. Despite not having a family member at a war graves site, I always find it moving to visit and just quietly walk among the rows and pay my respects to the fallen.

Lest we forget.

Great story. I hope she finds the poppy seller!

[freebyrd]

A heartwarming story in what has become a very shallow and selfish world. Well done to this lady.

Edited April 5, 2017 by freebyrd

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Jeremy50 said:

They are not, neither do they know of The First World War,  The Korean War, or even the Vietnam War. In fact, they know little of any history. Ask 10 Thai teachers the dates of the Second World War, and one at the most will have the answer.

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

[englishinsiam]

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

Many more Thais, Laos and Cambodians died building that railway than the western powers suffered yet their govt let it happen.

It's important for Thais to learn about this to show that the big man is not always right. But then they celebrate their one victory against a battalion of French soldiers with a great big monument in the centre of Bangkok.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[samsensam]

 

i think you'll find many thais have no idea what victory monument commemorates - do your own quick research - and in my experience those who do often find it embarrassing.

[samsensam]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

 

hummm, ask a average european the dates for the vietnam or korean wars, would they know? i know the decades but not the actual dates.

[sanukjim]

4 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Tears to my eyes.

 

Very sad that Thai students are not taught "that" part of Thai history.

The reason that there were no escapees from any of the camps is that the Thais would turn them for a reward.

[Hayduke]

It’s sometimes too easy to forget how much we owe to men like those of the Cambridgeshire Regiment.

 

It’s a debt that can never be repaid, but we can at least acknowledge their sacrifices with memories, respect and gratitude.

 

Well done, Lesley.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Hayduke

[FangFerang]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

You are kidding yourself. Again. Other titles today's newsfeed "Landmines Exploded in Surin". Sometimes your posts read like you were born with blinders on, and instead of having them removed instead had cosmetic surgery to make them cover anything you don't want to see in a n y direction. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, FangFerang said:

You are kidding yourself. Again. Other titles today's newsfeed "Landmines Exploded in Surin". Sometimes your posts read like you were born with blinders on, and instead of having them removed instead had cosmetic surgery to make them cover anything you don't want to see in a n y direction. 

Surin mines are probably from the Vietnam war.. not ww2. 

 

But you don't get my point.. WW1 and WW2 largely went past the Thais.. the Japanese did invade Thailand but later they were allied. So most of the common folk would not have a lot of problems with the Japanese. So it passed them mainly.

 

Now tell me why would they have to learn about things that did no affect them much ?  What do you know of Thai history ?

[Golden Triangle]

I think that you will find that The Royal British Legion here in Thailand is doing a lot to rectify that and educate the youngsters of today about the sacrifices made in the past for their future.

 

As I understand it, Poppy collection boxes throughout the Kingdom do extremely well in schools here. And there is talk of allowing youngsters to join.  

[Prbkk]

8 hours ago, docshock13 said:

Both my grand dads served. One in both WWI & WWII, the other in WWII. The wars were rarely discussed in our family, but when they were you could see deep sorrow in their eyes. Perhaps memories of their mates who made the ultimate sacrifice. Despite not having a family member at a war graves site, I always find it moving to visit and just quietly walk among the rows and pay my respects to the fallen.

Lest we forget.

Great story. I hope she finds the poppy seller!

Yes, it is a moving experience, although I've not been up there for many years. It does strike me as a little odd that all the youngsters prefer to go to Gallipoli rather than Kan and upcountry : sure there was no great battle in Thailand but the experiences of those that were there are so poignant. 

In school we learnt nothing about the Japanese war ( perhaps it was still considered news rather than history) but got never ending lessons about WW1 ( except for the fact that the whole Turkey fiasco was orchestrated by a clique of moronic British Generals).

Thailand has always been very accommodating and respectful of the war graves: it would be nice to see young Australians, Brits, Kiwis, Dutch take a greater interest in it.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Prbkk

[dazzz]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

pretty rubbish post really , ww1 and ww2 were not regional hence the word  "world " I am from uk so vietnam war did not affect me but i know lots about it . I also know about the battle of the thermopyles ,russian civil war , american civil war , arab israeli war , none of which affected me . julias caeser , alexander . Are you saying if something in the world does not affect you , it is not important to be taught . Then you are saying that most of the western worlds teaching is not needed , pretty strange view of education .

[BirdsandBooze]

56 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Yes, it is a moving experience, although I've not been up there for many years. It does strike me as a little odd that all the youngsters prefer to go to Gallipoli rather than Kan and upcountry : sure there was no great battle in Thailand but the experiences of those that were there are so poignant. 

In school we learnt nothing about the Japanese war ( perhaps it was still considered news rather than history) but got never ending lessons about WW1 ( except for the fact that the whole Turkey fiasco was orchestrated by a clique of moronic British Generals).

Thailand has always been very accommodating and respectful of the war graves: it would be nice to see young Australians, Brits, Kiwis, Dutch take a greater interest in it.

Gallipoli was Winston Churchill's baby.

[Prbkk]

7 minutes ago, BirdsandBooze said:

Gallipoli was Winston Churchill's baby.

Yes. Folly and lunacy; utter disregard for human life, served no purpose and doomed from the start. 60,000 Australians died /6,000,000 popn, all over reasons so utterly trivial that it borders on obscene ( and the settlement terms led directly to the rise of Nazism and WW2).

Australians have respect for what Churchill did on the homefront during WW2 but not for his work prior to that ( and even in WW2 he tried to keep Australian troops in N Africa and Europe rather than have them return to fight Japan. Curtin ignored him).

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

How many of the regional wars (not started by western powers) in this area do you know about ? I have absolutely no idea of Thai history and the fights with their neighbors. Why because its not important for us to learn.. same goes for WW1 WW2 for them.. it largely did not affect them. (sure the japs came here and the Thais switched side at the end of the war but its not a big thing like ww1 and ww2 for us)

 

Agree in part Rob. Regional wars are localized by nature. The two World Wars not only involved large numbers of countries, service people,  but civilians and buildings. A large portion of the world's society, hierarchy and power structures were changed dramatically. In this area it was the beginning of the end of colonialism. Thailand may have avoided that although surrounded by colonial regimes in its neighbors and economically effected.

 

But Thailand was involved in both WW's. Thai troops, not vast numbers but nevertheless a quantity, fought in Europe on the Allied side in WW1. In WW11 Japan sought of occupied Thailand who gave them free rain. But many Thais resisted and a great many Thais were killed by the Japanese for resisting or as forced labor. The Allies also bombed Thailand.

 

Thais, IME, have limited historical and geographical knowledge. Whether that's down to a lack of interest, a woeful education system for those subjects, or a combination of both, is anybodies guess.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Yes. Folly and lunacy; utter disregard for human life, served no purpose and doomed from the start. 60,000 Australians died /6,000,000 popn, all over reasons so utterly trivial that it borders on obscene ( and the settlement terms led directly to the rise of Nazism and WW2).

Australians have respect for what Churchill did on the homefront during WW2 but not for his work prior to that ( and even in WW2 he tried to keep Australian troops in N Africa and Europe rather than have them return to fight Japan. Curtin ignored him).

 

To be fair, there were a great many blunders and poor decision making on all sides in WW1, not just Churchill. The generals and politicians were faced with massive technology and industrial advances and didn't or couldn't adapt their thinking. At the same time society was still highly hierarchical with lower classes being thought to be more expandable. I read that many British and French generals thought that the sacrifices they ordered their troops to make was the price one paid for being a world power. By WW11 the thinking had changed.

 

Although the Treaty of Versailles certainly didn't help it wasn't, according to many modern historians, the direct cause of the rise of the far right and Nazis in Germany.

[robblok]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Agree in part Rob. Regional wars are localized by nature. The two World Wars not only involved large numbers of countries, service people,  but civilians and buildings. A large portion of the world's society, hierarchy and power structures were changed dramatically. In this area it was the beginning of the end of colonialism. Thailand may have avoided that although surrounded by colonial regimes in its neighbors and economically effected.

 

But Thailand was involved in both WW's. Thai troops, not vast numbers but nevertheless a quantity, fought in Europe on the Allied side in WW1. In WW11 Japan sought of occupied Thailand who gave them free rain. But many Thais resisted and a great many Thais were killed by the Japanese for resisting or as forced labor. The Allies also bombed Thailand.

 

Thais, IME, have limited historical and geographical knowledge. Whether that's down to a lack of interest, a woeful education system for those subjects, or a combination of both, is anybodies guess.

Still if you ask them about the history of the region they do know it.. I myself have no knowledge about the wars the Thais fought around here. (not talking Korea / Vietnam ect) I am talking a bit older. 

 

Point what I am making is that for a large part these wars did not really affect a lot of people here, unlike in the West so we know more.. because we were affected and those that were affected make us remember and make sure we don't forget. Here you don't really have that. 

 

I don't know much about the USA its wars, (besides the big ones) but there is a Spanish war.. and they seemed to have had other wars too I know little about. Why because it was not in the history of Europe.. Point I am trying to make we learn mostly about things near our own country or things that had a huge impact on us. 

[maxcorrigan]

14 hours ago, bannork said:

At my brother's wedding in the UK I was talking to his bride's mother and when she heard I lived in Thailand she remarked her brother had been lost building the Death Railway. 

I offered to try to find his memorial plaque when I returned to Thailand, and I did, in the main, well-kept cemetery in Kanchanaburi. I took a photo and sent it to her.

It's so sad walking around looking at the plaques because you realize nearly all those who died were in their early twenties.

We post-war UK citizens have been so, so lucky.

Yes I visited the memorial too and very sad looking at their ages, and to see Japanese visitors taking selfies up and clowning about on the bridge makes you angry inside, but they like the Thai know very little if anything about that terrible part in world history!

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Still if you ask them about the history of the region they do know it.. I myself have no knowledge about the wars the Thais fought around here. (not talking Korea / Vietnam ect) I am talking a bit older. 

 

Point what I am making is that for a large part these wars did not really affect a lot of people here, unlike in the West so we know more.. because we were affected and those that were affected make us remember and make sure we don't forget. Here you don't really have that. 

 

I don't know much about the USA its wars, (besides the big ones) but there is a Spanish war.. and they seemed to have had other wars too I know little about. Why because it was not in the history of Europe.. Point I am trying to make we learn mostly about things near our own country or things that had a huge impact on us. 

 

The Japanese certainly affected Thailand in WW11. Their presence here wasn't benevolent and heroic Thai resistance fighters worked with the Allies.

I visited the War Graves, railway bridge and museum with a Thai client about 30 years ago. The museum was very good and had strong anti war overtones. A coach load of older than me Japs arrived on a tourist trip. The Thais that were there were not happy at seeing them or how they were behaving which was boisterous and noisy.

 

If I ask my wife about history she drones on about the British redrawing some map and stealing some land and mountains from Thailand and giving it to the Burmese in the 19th century; or goes on about the wars against the Burmese.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Japanese certainly affected Thailand in WW11. Their presence here wasn't benevolent and heroic Thai resistance fighters worked with the Allies.

I visited the War Graves, railway bridge and museum with a Thai client about 30 years ago. The museum was very good and had strong anti war overtones. A coach load of older than me Japs arrived on a tourist trip. The Thais that were there were not happy at seeing them or how they were behaving which was boisterous and noisy.

 

If I ask my wife about history she drones on about the British redrawing some map and stealing some land and mountains from Thailand and giving it to the Burmese in the 19th century; or goes on about the wars against the Burmese.

I did not think the Japanese were benevolent.. though the image is like that in the movies (Thai ones of love stories in that time). I just thought that they did not occupy large parts of Thailand.. just some major places as there was not that much importance about it (not the railway part)

 

Yes that is what I mean they seem to know about their local history and I don't so I excuse them about not knowing all about "our" wars.

 

But i think in general the Thai history is a bit nationalistic (maybe more then a bit)

[wakeupplease]

Now tell me why would they have to learn about things that did no affect them much ?  What do you know of Thai history ?

 

Well lets try but I doubt if I will be able to

 

knowing what caused a war might just help others realize just what a waste of time a war is and stop stupid people who have ideas above their station causing problems for the rest of us. We had to go through W1 and W2 loosing millions of lives and costing billions of $ all because a certain race at the time thought they where better than anyone else and wanted world domination.

 

But as middle east today those with little between their ears have not learned anything so now the world in certain areas is dangerous and other countries like only this week Russia civilians get killed who do not deserve to die.

 

If you do not educate the people (like some countries) what you get is idiots doing as they do making everyone's life hell because they are ignorant and want everything their way at their costs. and you and I do not count.

 

When you move to another country you get told to learn the culture to fit in, history is part of the culture or did you not know that?

 

Some say ignorance is bliss, others say ignorance shows lack of education and selfishness on the part of those who are just plain evil.

 

What do you know of Thai history ?

 

A lot and dates too

 

Have a great Songkran, everyone staff safe, here I will just put the hot tub on and relax with my water pistol.

[Baerboxer]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

I did not think the Japanese were benevolent.. though the image is like that in the movies (Thai ones of love stories in that time). I just thought that they did not occupy large parts of Thailand.. just some major places as there was not that much importance about it (not the railway part)

 

Yes that is what I mean they seem to know about their local history and I don't so I excuse them about not knowing all about "our" wars.

 

But i think in general the Thai history is a bit nationalistic (maybe more then a bit)

 

That's like saying Vichy France wasn't occupied so not so affected as Northern France. I doubt the Thai were simply given free reign based on how the Japs ruled other places they occupied.

 

WW1 and WW11 both had Thai involvement and both impacted on Thailand. But, some of the changes brought about by those events on the world aren't necessarily appreciated here. Thailand is inward looking at the best of times and therefore what happens in other parts of the world, to other nationalities doesn't always register. Nor does the impact made on Thailand.

[DILLIGAD]

 

Agree in part Rob. Regional wars are localized by nature. The two World Wars not only involved large numbers of countries, service people,  but civilians and buildings. A large portion of the world's society, hierarchy and power structures were changed dramatically. In this area it was the beginning of the end of colonialism. Thailand may have avoided that although surrounded by colonial regimes in its neighbors and economically effected.

 

But Thailand was involved in both WW's. Thai troops, not vast numbers but nevertheless a quantity, fought in Europe on the Allied side in WW1. In WW11 Japan sought of occupied Thailand who gave them free rain. But many Thais resisted and a great many Thais were killed by the Japanese for resisting or as forced labor. The Allies also bombed Thailand.

 

Thais, IME, have limited historical and geographical knowledge. Whether that's down to a lack of interest, a woeful education system for those subjects, or a combination of both, is anybodies guess.

I believe it's a mixture of the elements that you suggest, but in addition to that, there is something else.

After having a very interesting chat with a Uni History lecturer, we (politely) established that no negative elements about history are ever discussed/taught. This is a serious failing in the system as how can our(their) future generations learn from past mistakes/failures?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's like saying Vichy France wasn't occupied so not so affected as Northern France. I doubt the Thai were simply given free reign based on how the Japs ruled other places they occupied.

 

WW1 and WW11 both had Thai involvement and both impacted on Thailand. But, some of the changes brought about by those events on the world aren't necessarily appreciated here. Thailand is inward looking at the best of times and therefore what happens in other parts of the world, to other nationalities doesn't always register. Nor does the impact made on Thailand.

True the Japs ruled with an iron fist.. but have you ever seen the movies about the occupation  here.. its depicted differently (or at least what i have seen).

 

Yes Thailand is real inward looking.. that is for sure.

 

[Prbkk]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's like saying Vichy France wasn't occupied so not so affected as Northern France. I doubt the Thai were simply given free reign based on how the Japs ruled other places they occupied.

 

WW1 and WW11 both had Thai involvement and both impacted on Thailand. But, some of the changes brought about by those events on the world aren't necessarily appreciated here. Thailand is inward looking at the best of times and therefore what happens in other parts of the world, to other nationalities doesn't always register. Nor does the impact made on Thailand.

Older Thais have an acute awareness of the period of WW2 and its aftermath, probably not as good as those in other countries in the region as they had more direct involvement....but infinitely better than the under 40s who are, by and large, clueless about anything to do with events in C20th. Yes, they can tell you about the latest celebrity stuff and a bit of football. Other than that, no. Perhaps its worldwide.